Aslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=455.msg8301e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index041f-2.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=455.0e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index041f-2.html.zxg^0jxOKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip0|xTue, 10 Mar 2020 13:32:37 GMT0 0Pg^!x The Back Row Bugs...

« previous next »
Pages: 1

Author Topic: The Back Row Bugs...  (Read 5063 times)

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
The Back Row Bugs...
« on: March 25, 2008, 05:32:17 PM »
Ok, apparently the devs have dropped the ball.. multiple times.

SNES version - The back row bug for this version of the game is simple. If you equip a back row compatible weapon on a character, it is not unset when you switch to a non-back row compatible weapon.

This bug is very beneficial except that most of those weapons have the "disable critical bit" enabled which is the tradeoff. This bug occurs for all versions w/o exception.

Note: The "disable critical hit" bit is only available in the SNES version.

Characters that are unaffected are Tellah and Yang, since they do not have a back row compatible weapon.

Characters who are automatically inflicted with this bug include Rosa (initially) and Rydia (when she comes back).

Edge needs both hands to have equipped (at one point or another) a Boomerang weapon to take advantage of this bug.  This also implies that both hands need to be "back row" compatible for the benefits to stick when both hands have a weapon. This is the same reason why bows+arrows have that bit set.

GBA Version - There are two different back row bugs.

GBA US Version (probably includes Jap v1.0) - The back row bit is not adhered to at all, thus making normally back row compatible weapons to decrease hit rate.

GBA Euro Version (probably includes Jap v1.1) - The back row bit is not adhered to at all, thus making the either row deal the same amount of damage. The back row bit is effectively useless in this version.

What I've learned from all of this:

Back row incompatible weapons reduce hit rate by 1/2.

Attacking enemies that are "considered" to be in the back row also reduce hit rate by 1/2. This penalty is stackable with back row incompatible weapons.

Note: There is no front/back rows for enemies in FF4A. (In other words, there is no distinction for enemy location when attacking).

Second Note: Whoever spread the rumors that FF4ET didn't adhere to rows was grossly informed and didn't do any testing. More likely than not, they were experiencing the back row bug.

Back row compatible weapons (and those characters that are affected by the bug) in the SNES version are not affected by either back row penalty.

The GBA versions can't decide between "no back row compatible weapons" (US and Jap v1.0) and "always back row compatible" (Euro and Jap v1.1).

Since I don't have the DS version to test this behavior (I get the feeling a variation of this bug is still lingering somehow), this is pretty sad that these row bugs are still cropping up.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 06:47:19 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 02:39:59 PM »
Ok, I did a bit more testing on this with a revelation I had...

The Bow+Arrow combo is "bugged" in FF4A... I could be wrong if it is a bug, but I'll call it that anyways.

I originally thought Rosa's Attack command is tied to some character specific code that cripples her usage of the Bow+Arrow combo, to force the use of Aim.

However, that isn't the case.

Apparently, the back row bit is ignored when a Bow+Arrow combo is equipped.

All Bows and Arrows have the back row bit enabled. When testing this in battle, it appears that being in the front row does make a difference.. as full hit rate is available. In the back row, approximately half of the damage is dealt (which means 1/2 hit rate penalty is applied).

So, in conclusion:

To deal full damage with the Bow+Arrow combo in FF4A, you need to one of the following:

1) Have the Aim command, so you can use it effectively in the back row.

2) Be in the front row.

This isn't Rosa specific, but this is how the Bow+Arrow combo is coded.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

koala_knight

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 166
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2008, 09:46:07 PM »
I think the bugs you are talking about will probably not appear in FF4DS since it's built of the code from FF3DS, so it'll probably have bugs from that game instead. =)
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2008, 09:53:36 PM »
Graphics engine, probably.

Battle engine, unlikely.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 03:44:00 PM »
Mega :bump:

My original research about FF4A is wrong about the Bow+Arrow.

Phoenix's claims about the back row bit being 255% is correct.. for the following reasons.

1) Blind status does not affect the SNES's versions Aim, so she will hit at 100% (since 255/2 >= 100).

2) The back row bit doesn't work for Bows and Arrows (even though both pieces of equipment have that bit set), so the penalty is actively being applied to Aim.. but you won't see the differences applied there. It is definately applied when Blind is set.. so the hit rate becomes more like this..

255 * (1/2 back row penalty) * (1/2 Blind) = 63% hit rate.

This is the only time where Aim doesn't produce a 100% hit rate.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Dragonsbrethren

  • Forum Overlord
  • *
  • Posts: 1,820
    • View Profile
    • Dragonsbrethren Industries
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 09:23:28 PM »
Interesting. I guess I've never had Rosa blinded in the GBA version, I always use Aim and I'm pretty sure I would've noticed this if she missed. Come to think of it, you pretty much need to go out of your way to get blinded once you get her back (and before, for that matter), so it's probably never happened to me.
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 09:39:02 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on October 22, 2008, 09:23:28 PM
Interesting. I guess I've never had Rosa blinded in the GBA version, I always use Aim and I'm pretty sure I would've noticed this if she missed. Come to think of it, you pretty much need to go out of your way to get blinded once you get her back (and before, for that matter), so it's probably never happened to me.

There are 3 monsters that inflict this status. Two of them are the moth monsters (two of them easily avoidable due to circumstances) and the other is the Marlboro, which you heal with Esuna or a Remedy anyways.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Dragonsbrethren

  • Forum Overlord
  • *
  • Posts: 1,820
    • View Profile
    • Dragonsbrethren Industries
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 09:40:52 PM »
Didn't think about the Malboro but yeah, you'd either block all of its statuses or heal them all at once.
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 09:41:57 PM »
If it's any consolation, the White Robe has natural Blind protection.

 :edit:

The White Dress has that resistance plus "Miracle" protection in the form of Mute resistance...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2008, 11:11:10 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Dragonsbrethren

  • Forum Overlord
  • *
  • Posts: 1,820
    • View Profile
    • Dragonsbrethren Industries
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2008, 03:29:59 AM »
Thinking about it, I actually like this broken behavior. I'd go so far as to disable the aim command while blinded, actually.
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: The Back Row Bugs...
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2008, 09:35:38 AM »
I guess, I'd rather see Blind status prevent Pray/Miracle from working, since it auto-fails miserably.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3
Pages: 1
« previous next »