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Topics - Deathlike2

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211

Gaming Discussion / Edge vs Asura

« on: March 15, 2008, 11:35:13 AM »

One of the most seemingly "difficult" battles of the game involve Asura... usually with good reason. Asura is able to cast a monsterous Cure3 (Magic stat of 69 implies a spell multiplier of 18) which is pretty much around what Rosa would have and an unholy Cure4.

For the sake of argument that you want to face Asura WITHOUT using Reflect... (for those TA speedruns or people who have balls... or maybe they are simply clueless), the best method of going about this is maximizing Edge's potential.

Note: All math done here involves truncation where applicable.

Let's use two of Edge's levels and start analyzing from that:

Edge @ level 26 has a Str of 21 and a Agi of 24 (this implies a bonus multiplier of 3). Edge @ level 29 has a Str of 24 and an Agi of 26 (this implies a bonus multiplier of 4).

Here's Edge's ideal equipment that boosts Str (there isn't any Agi boosting equipment up to this point):
Ninja Blade (FF2US name), Mute Knife, Bandanna (FF2US name aka Green Beret), Black Belt (SNES name), Strength Ring (FF2US name aka Power Armlet).
This equipment combined increases Str by 20 points, which implies a bonus multiplier of 3 @ level 26 and 2 @ level 29. If you are lucky to have gotten Zeus Gloves (aka Giant's Gloves), the bonus multiplier for Edge @ level 29 is improved by 3 instead of 2. (For this exercise, I won't use the Zeus Gloves because it is a rare drop).

So, Edge's Attack Power should look like this:
48 (Ninja Sword power) + 35 (Mute Knife power) + 41/4 (Strength bonus) + 41/4 (Strength bonus again) + 26/4 (Level bonus) + 26/4 (Level bonus again) = 115
This has an attack multiplier of 7 with a hit rate of..
(90 (Ninja Sword hit rate) + 75 (Mute Knife hit rate)) /2 + 26/4 (Level bonus) = 88

Edge's damage range (vs 0 defense targets) then becomes:
115 (attack power) * 1 (worst case) * 7 (attack multiplier) = 805
115 (attack power) * 1.5 (best case) * 7 (attack multiplier) = 1207

Factoring the hit rate though...
805 * .88 = 708
1207 * .88 = 1062

Ok, that doesn't scare anyone.. not even Asura. However... the Mute Knife increases attack power by 4 vs Mages and that's where the fun begins. When you combine that with Berserk... this isn't going to be pretty.

Asura's defense is 3 and Protect brings it up by 5... so Asura starts with 8 effective armor (that's the first thing she casts in FF4, this is unapplicable to FF2).

(115 (attack power) * 1.5 (Berserk status) * 4 (enemy type multiplier) * 1 (worst case) - 8 (target defense)) * 7 (attack multiplier) = 4760
(115 (attack power) * 1.5 (Berserk status) * 4 (enemy type multiplier) * 1.25 (avg case) - 8 (target defense)) * 7 (attack multiplier) = 5964
(115 (attack power) * 1.5 (Berserk status) * 4 (enemy type multiplier) * 1.5 (best case) - 8 (target defense)) * 7 (attack multiplier) = 7168

Factor the hit rate...
4760 * .88 = 4188
5964 * .88 = 5248
7168 * .88 = 6307

So now, Edge becomes a real contender.. if all things go well. Obviously I cannot explain how Edge would survive an attack, nor assume to know if you cast Haste/Fast or be unforunate that Asura casts Cure4 or Protect on herself... but this is the starting point to ultimate mayhem.

Really, it's not that hard.

Pic that doesn't show the level I specified, but just to prove Edge owning Asura...

Yea.. that's not fair:

9999 is good:

212

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Status Attributes Not Used For Weapons... With Pics!

« on: March 14, 2008, 11:17:06 AM »

I just wanted this thread just posterity... and just in case it wasn't already known for some.

Inflicting Float status:

Inflicting Petrify status (the 1/3rds of the way there version.. Medusa Sword does the 2/3rds of the way there version):

Inflicting Frog/Toad status:

Inflicting Small status:

This can occur with enemy attacks.. just to make things interesting..

213

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Elemental Reference Guide

« on: March 13, 2008, 10:02:48 PM »

For the sake of keeping it all in one place and not having to dig up older threads.. this should suffice:

Note: This should be about final...

Physical Attacks:

The best examples of an elemental physical attack are Yang's Claws.

Note: Elemental physical weakness for Fire+Ice equipment combinations have also been "corrected" in FF4A as well to not be weak vs Fire+Ice physical attacks. This is an equipment specific attribute, not an monster attribute.

If the target is weak any of the elements in the attack, the attacker's base attack power is multiplied by 2. It is multiplied by 4 instead if the target (a monsters only attribute) has the Weak+ bit set.

The above rule has total precedence over all physical elemental attacks for the SNES version. Weakness has precedence over absorb/resistance, but not Immunity in the GBA version.

For example if Yang has an IceClaw and FireClaw and attacks a FlameDog, the fact that it is weak vs ice has precedence over the fact it absorbs Fire.

If the target is immune to any of the elements in the attack, the attacker's base attack power is multiplied by 0.

This is most notable with Cecil's Darkness elemental sword vs Zombie monsters (and others).

Note: In the SNES version of the game if you manage to make a critical hit or deal "weird" damage to zombies with Cecil's Darkness elemental swords, the base attack power of the attack is 25.

Immunity has precedence over absorb and resistance, but not weakness in the SNES version. Immunity has total precedence over all physical elemental attacks for the GBA version.

If the target is resistant or absorbs any of the elements in the attack, the attacker's base attack power is multiplied by 1/2.

For example is Yang has a FireClaw and attacks a FlameDog, the base attack power of Yang is multiplied by 1/2 and the FlameDog takes less damage as a result.

Here's a quick reference order of which has priority:
FF4A (GBA)
Immunity > Weakness > Absorb/Resistance
FF2/4 (SNES)
Weakness > Immunity > Absorb/Resistance

Magical Attacks:

Note: In the SNES version of the game, elemental immunity has precedence over elemental absorb. In the GBA version of the game, elemental absorb has precedence over elemental immunity. Absorb/Immunity has precedence over every magic attack.

The best example for this is how the Adamant Armor+Cursed Ring react when both are equipped at the same time in both versions of the game.

Note: An interruptable attack is an attack sequence that doesn't end until the damage or status effects are displayed (which implies the sequence has completed).

Examples of uninterruptable attack sequences include FF4A's ZeromusEG's multi-elemental attack, the ToadLady's Toad attack, and the Dark Elf's multi-elemental attack.

If the target is able to absorb any elementals in the magic attack whether in a solo or uninterruptable attack, all the damage is inverted after being applied against magic defense. If a physical attack is in this sequence, the attack is converted as "healing". This rule has precedence over an entire attack sequence.

If the target is immune to any of the elementals in the magic attack whether in a solo or uninterruptable attack, the base spell power of the attack is multiplied by 0, therefore all damage taken by the target is effectively equal to 1.

If the target is ONLY resistant to any of the elementals in the magic attack whether in a solo or uninterruptable attack, the spell power of the attack is multiplied by 1/2. If this is included in an uninterruptable attack sequence, damage intake will be 1/2 for all the other attacks.

In FF4A, three of the summons in Rydia's Trial are resistant to their notable elementals. They will take far less damage by their favorable elementals.

If the target is ONLY weak to any of the elementals in the magic attack whether in the solo or uninterruptable attack, the spell power of the attack is multiplied by 2. If the target has the "Weak+" attribute (only affects attacks on monsters), the spell power of the magic attack is multiplied by 4 instead. If this is included in an uniterruptable attack sequence, damage intake increase will match whether or not the target has the Weak+ attribute.

Here's a quick reference order of which has priority:
FF4A (GBA)
Absorb > Immunity > Resistance > Weakness
FF2/4 (SNES)
Immunity > Absorb > Resistance > Weakness

Notes:
Darkness Elemental - There is no Darkness magic (the Dave Wave attack is non-elemental for those that are wondering), but it is still absorbable by equipment. You generally notice this in the form of elemental immunity through Zombies and Cecil's Darkness elemental swords.

Aerial Elemental - There is no enemy that has immunity to (or absorb) this elemental, but it still works properly. Also, FF4A's description of this elemental being "resistant" for the Blue Dragon doesn't tell the complete story. This is because there is no Aerial elemental spell. However, a spell given the Aerial Elemental will behave just like Fire/Ice/Lightning elementals does for absorb, immunity, and resistance. Weakness vs Aerial though means immunity to Quake type spells... the equivalent of having the target have Float status.

Drain Elemental - This is a more peculiar elemental. Resistance (1/2 attack power) is applied when the Drain/Absorb bit on the target is enabled (it serves a dual purpose function). If a different offensive spell is given this elemental, the target is directly healed by it (which shouldn't be too much of a surprise) if it has the Drain/Absorb bit is set.

Spells given the Drain elemental don't heal undead targets or hurt you.

Drain+Osmose has no effect, but that's because they are hardcoded, even if you change their elemental properties.

The Drain elemental given to weapons are very consistant at least. Immune+Absorb/Drain bit will make Drain weaponry/attacks deal 1 damage. Drain weakness will allow 2x damage dealt to Drain weaponry. Drain healing is inverted vs Undead...

Weak+/Immune "Elemental" - Believe it or not, this also serves a dual purpose.

Defensively:

Monsters that have this as a weakness increases the power of the spell/weapon by 4x. Monsters that have this as an immunity make other physical and magical attacks reduces the power of the spell/weapon to 0. Armor doesn't have it as a "weakness", which is good.

Offensively:

Weapons that have this as an attribute have their attack power increase by 4x. This is because the Weak+ bit is ALSO the Immune "elemental weakness bit". So let's say we have a weapon that has the Immune bit set. We know that Zombies have the Immune bit. If this "Immune elemental" weapon were to attack the Zombie, the attacker will have his attack power increase by 4x. This has no effect if the monster has this attribute since there is no "Immune elemental weakness" for armor.

FF4A lists doesn't quite list "immunity", but only that a target is resistant (and technically the target is very resistant in this case).

Important note: Elemental multipliers do not stack. If one were to expose the Ice+Aerial weakness of the Arachne monster with the Blizzard Spear or Ice Arrows (which contains both elementals), the character will have his attack power increase only by 4 because of the Weak+ bit. You would be doing the same damage if Fire arrows or the Icebrand is used instead.

214

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Tower Of Babil Docs

« on: March 13, 2008, 07:13:42 PM »

Some of my magic damage algo was more or less confirmed... so meh.

Though, there is two sections of text worth looking into, both in record.txt:

Quote

3B speed modifier. lower = faster. for autobattles, starts at 01;
otherwise starts at 10. slow adds +08, (upper bound 20) haste adds -3
(lower bound 0C)

Slow implies +8, Haste implies -3.. but what is the upper bound used for then...?

Quote

60-61 relative speed. equal to (Cecil's agi * 32) / (our agi * 0A). if Cecil
isn't in the batle, an arbitrary character is picked instead. lower
number = faster speed.

"Our agi" imples what? It seems like it implies the sum of the entire group's AGI. It seems like the battle is scaled around Cecil, which makes total sense actually.

215

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / THE Command Thread

« on: March 13, 2008, 05:41:28 PM »

216

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Completing Weapon-Spell Magic Hacks

« on: March 12, 2008, 01:35:34 PM »

Thanks Paladin for posting some of the relevent info in this thread: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=405.0

I wrote some data when testing in this thread: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=348.0

The data Paladin wrote matches up with this.

I noticed a few strange bits of data in the game..

Power Staff apparently was supposed to cast Berserk, but can't because the spell power data is 0. You will hear the "spell to be casted" when using vs Reflect.

Flame Whip has some power, but has no spell associated with it. I used the FF4 editor for this game and added Fire3 to the weapon, and it was casted... not spell effects unfortunately, but the damage was dealt. The weapon was probably supposed to have Fire3 built into it originally (think of how FF5's equivalent weapon operated).

Wooden Hammer was supposed to have cast Lit2, but can't because the spell power data is 0. You can see part of the effect vs Reflect.

So, to get weapon spell magic working properly, the power has to be at least 1, edit (aka use the editor or hack it manually) to manipulate the spell being cast by the weak (though, I don't even know what location is edited for it to be enabled), and change the spell visual so we're not confused (unless you like using a different spell's visual+sound).

In any case, there are 3 weapons that seem to have been not properly completed or tested by the original developers.

217

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / 1GP Sell Price Bit

« on: March 12, 2008, 12:29:58 PM »

It exists, but I don't know where that is. It is tagged for the items Ether1, Ether2, and Elixir (and Megalixir in FF4A).

218

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Weapon Based Spells Hit Rate

« on: March 12, 2008, 12:24:52 PM »

They have a hit rate of 100%... but that doesn't mean the spells they cast will succeed (mainly because of resistance). For example, the Slumber Sword's Sleep magic doesn't always work since it is level based.

219

Gaming Discussion / Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths

« on: March 11, 2008, 08:21:16 PM »

Personally, I'm not sure what level most people are at when they doing Bahamut's Cave... but I'll try to be fair here.

The random point for this discussion to look into how good or bad Leviathan is when you're using it vs the Behemoth battles. I used to use Leviathan for these battles, but at one point I simply just gave up, since the damage return on casting it was simply not MP efficient for me. I'm posting here to see if the damage is at least reasonably higher than Mist, ignoring MP consumption.

Leviathan has a base spell power of 280.

Mist's spell power is directly related to Rydia's current HP.

For the optimal situation, let's see how powerful Leviathan can be... based on a particular level range.

At level 42, Rydia has 40 Wisdom and an HP range of 1110-1245. At level 52, Rydia has 48 Wisdom and an HP range of 1670-1875.

Rydia's equipment is this set... Charm Rod, Tiara, Sorceror's Robe, and Rune Ring. This increases her Wisdom by 28.

Therefore Rydia's spell power at level 42 is 18, and at level 52 it is 20.

Ok, onto the math:

280 (base power) * 1 (worst case) - 254 (monster's magic defense) = 26 * 18 (multiplier @ level 42) = 468 (@ level 52 = 520)
280 (base power) * 1.25 (avg case) - 254 (monster's magic defense) = 96 * 18 (multiplier @ level 42) = 1728 (@ level 52 = 1920)
280 (base power) * 1.5 (best case) - 254 (monster's magic defense) = 166 * 18 (multiplier @ level 42) = 2988 (@ level 52 = 3320)

So, by comparison, Leviathan is stronger on average... on the other hand, it's hard to justify the 30 MP increase (or by 2.5x, however you factor that in.

At maximum Wisdom though..., the damage range is 650 - 4150, with an average case of 2400. By this point, Mist has greatly surpassed this.

So, unfortunately my best suggestion for Leviathan is to use it instead of Bahamut if you want to conserve 10 MP vs low magic defense targets.
5040 minimum damage vs a 0 magic defense target @ level 42... 7000 minimum damage @ maximum Wisdom. Bahamut is generally overkill for low magic defense targets.

220

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Throw/Dart Command

« on: March 11, 2008, 07:05:32 PM »

Damage dealt is always this formula: Level * Weapon Power + rand (0, 255)

I don't know how BSiron got some random number to be added.

Damage ignores target's armor, so Defense = 0 in the calculations.

Ignore all other properties of the weapon, whether beneficial or not.

Row is irrelevent for this attack (Edge's or the enemy).

Note: If you don't use the duplication trick, the best weapon to throw are dropped Dragoon Spears. In FF4A, you could just buy the expensive Assassin Daggers and throw those. In FF4ET, the retweaked power of the Fuma Shurikens (100) are enough for almost 9999 damage.

221

Gaming Discussion / Tellah's Starting Spells... Charm?

« on: March 11, 2008, 10:49:07 AM »

Is that the only spell that seems to be a little misplaced in Tellah's starting spell selection? For a spell that costs 10MP and causes Tinymages to cast Death/Doom/Fatal on you, is it even worth it? Even Psych/Osmose may seem a little out of place, given that there aren't many high HP targets.. and then there's all the undead on Mt. Ordeals...

Maybe I'm just crazy...

222

Gaming Discussion / The Cute Chocobo > Old Man

« on: March 11, 2008, 08:30:33 AM »

I just felt like keeping this lighthearted a little, but this is worth pointing out.

The Octomammoth battle is pretty straight forward as you don't have that many choices to go on..

But did you know that cute Chocobo is stronger than whatever Tellah has as an option? For 2 MP more, it might just be w0rth it.

Lit1 has a base spell power of 16.

Chocobo has a base spell power of 40.

Octomammoth has a magic defense of 25.

Tellah has a natural spell mutliplier of 5 (16 Wisdom / 4 + 1), Rydia at level 12 has the same amount.

Since lightning is effective against Octomammoth... this means...

16 (spell power) * 2 (weakness) * 1 (worst case scenario) - 25 = 7 * 5 = 35
16 (spell power) * 2 (weakness) * 1.5 (best case scenario) - 25 = 23 * 5 = 115

40 (spell power) * 1 (worst case scenario) - 25 = 15 * 5 = 75
40 (spell power) * 1.5 (best case scenario) - 25 = 35 * 5 = 175

Even if Rydia has at least 12 Wisdom, she would still do a damage range of 60 to 140...

Rydia having approximately 8 Wisdom (pretty much what she has at level 1) would do damage of 40 to 105.

In conclusion, Cute Chocobo > Old Man.

223

General Discussion / Paladin...

« on: March 10, 2008, 06:58:27 PM »

Are you the same guy who wrote the Golbez-Cecil hack?

Anyways.. your site is nice (you posted a link to a document on your website, which is incomplete.. if you need a little help there to figure it out, I'll see what I can come up with... anyways I did bother to check your site out in the meantime). The only issue I have is that a bunch of weapon descriptions are.. not quite right. For instance, the Avenger Sword is not Holy elemental... however those translating FF4 (the J2e guys) somehow thought it was Holy elemental.. go figure.

224

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Requesting Info: Command Data

« on: March 10, 2008, 05:53:28 PM »

Similar to the spell thread I recently posted.. anything you can shed any light on some of the commands.. such as power (if applicable, like many Spirit Wave or Kick and Jump), hit rate (Pray and Build Up are of relative importance), and whatever else you can shed on this matter.

225

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Requesting Info: Weapon Spell-Magic Data

« on: March 10, 2008, 05:51:18 PM »

Anything any of you can do to find and list the spell power, hit rate (if applicable, though the magic always seems to succeed) and whatever relevent info associated with weapons that cast magic.

I wrote this thread as a supplement, hoping someone would look into this: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=348.0

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