Topic: FF II: A Threat from Within - Expanded ROM = New Features!

[chillyfeez]

Here it is.

This should work with any in progress game that was saved before the Tentacle battle.
If you played that part already and don't have a save from before, sorry for the inconvenience...

Apply to a clean, unheadered 1.1 ROM.

As always, feedback is encouraged and appreciated!

FFII:aTfW v0.4.1b

[chillyfeez]

Minor Update:

• Removed a mysterious trigger in Mysidia near the entrance hat caused a warp to somewhere in the Underworld.
• Changed Ceo's starting stats to Level 15 (With all applicable stat upgrades)
• Changed Ceo's Starting Weapon to Steel Sword instead of Shadow Sword
• Made Dark (Wave) skill only available when a Dark Sword is equipped.

Version 0.4.2b

[Kea]

Hey, I'm trying out this hack, but I'm getting stuck early on. When I try to leave the throne room of Eblan I'm blocked by an invisible thing. When I interact with it this dialogue box shows up:

Dialogue box shows: Furio: I'm back, Pop!/Mission accomplished!

An event flag gone wrong, I assume? I'm using a fresh unheadered 1.1 ROM with SNES9x 1.53.

Edit: Ah, but leaving and reentering the throne room via the secret treasure room makes that blockage disappear. Well at least I can continue on from this point.

[chillyfeez]

Huh... I wonder if I've ever tried to leave in the beginning without hitting the treasure room first. I'll have to investigate that.

Thanks for the report!

Let me know any other feedback you've got - good, bad, whatever. It's all helpful and appreciated!

 
I haven't had a chance to look into it yet, but I've been thinking about it, and it's probably an NPC issue, not a trigger issue.
Since the player has the ability to have any one of six hired party members at any given time, there are some locations that have an NPC assigned, usually inactive, whose visage changes depending on which hired member is in the party. At the beginning of the game, you have no hired help, so that NPC is "invisible." Somewhere in that event script, though, I must have activated the NPC, so there would be an invisible body standing there that you can talk to, which goes back to its inactive state when you exit and reenter the room.
That's my theory, anyway. If that's it, it should be a simple fix.

[Kea]

Just finished the initial Agart sequence and made it back to Eblan. Some thoughts:
-Edge reacting to using Steal is a nice touch.

-As is the slight modifications to Eblan to make it look more like a place people might live in.
-The ninjas sparring in the training room was a pleasant surprise, I didn't know you could do that sort of event.

-When I ran into Chocobos in the forests, I was confused initially on what to do with them, and tried killing them for exp.
Eventually I hit on using a Firebomb to bypass their magic defence, which is how I discovered that you're supposed to kill all enemies except the Chocobo.

-Neat feature, allowing Choobos to cross rough terrain. I assume the Agart chocobo is just a demonstration of this.

-The Cockatrice lookalike in Agart is called Dummy. Not intended I assume?

-Jinn battle was basic, but it's the first boss battle so it kinda has to be. It was cool that stealing Ice darts and Ice Shards from enemies was rewarded in being able to take him out more easily.

-Furio's (in-battle) all-red ensemble could use a secondary color IMO. It's hard to make out what his clothes are supposed to look like, as opposed to eg. the Ninja recruit's getup.

-I like the idea behind the temporary recruit system...it lets you experiment with party members of varying abilities without having to write around them in plot.

[Kea]

When Porom isn't looking, Palom writes pamphlets about himself:

[chillyfeez]

Just finished the initial Agart sequence and made it back to Eblan. Some thoughts:
-Edge reacting to using Steal is a nice touch.

Thanks. Something got screwed up in the AI, and he's only supposed to say that the first time you steal, but fixing that is fairly low on my list of priorities

-As is the slight modifications to Eblan to make it look more like a place people might live in.
-The ninjas sparring in the training room was a pleasant surprise, I didn't know you could do that sort of event.

What tells NPCs to speak is generally one of two events, event 01 ("Show First Message") and event 02 ("Show Second Message"). So I just made another such event, "make the ninjas spar, then show first message." It's a bit of a waste of an event, but Grimoire's conditional event script hack will save me more than enough to make up for it.

-When I ran into Chocobos in the forests, I was confused initially on what to do with them, and tried killing them for exp.
Eventually I hit on using a Firebomb to bypass their magic defence, which is how I discovered that you're supposed to kill all enemies except the Chocobo.

The fat chocobo in Eblan is supposed to tell you about that. Did you talk to it? If so, did it just say too much that it got lost in the mix? Or did you skip talking to it because you thought it served the same purpose as the original ffiv fat chocobo?

-Neat feature, allowing Choobos to cross rough terrain. I assume the Agart chocobo is just a demonstration of this.

The chocobo encounter is just a low-chance (but higher in forests) random encounter, actually. It serves no purpose in Agart, really, but later on you will be able to access some bonus caves only by riding a chocobo (like in ffvii). I don't know if you've been following some of my more recent experimental progress, but I've also worked out a way to have a chocobo time trial mini-game, which will become available in one of the next updates.

-The Cockatrice lookalike in Agart is called Dummy. Not intended I assume?

It is intended, though it's probably a stupid inside joke that isn't worth the trouble. In FFIIUS, the cockatrice summon spell was inexplicably made unavailable. The spell still exists in the game's engine, though, and like many dummied-out details is actually called "Dummy." It's a joke that probably only a handful of FFIV hackers would get, and the truth is that when Grimoire also assumed it was a mistake I probably should have changed it.
 

-Jinn battle was basic, but it's the first boss battle so it kinda has to be. It was cool that stealing Ice darts and Ice Shards from enemies was rewarded in being able to take him out more easily.

Yeah, Jinn is easy on purpose. As a matter of fact, his Blaze spell, if you saw it, is really a fire-element gravity spell, so it can't even kill you. Later bosses will definitely be tougher. The difficulty jumps significantly on the next mission. Appropriate difficulty is my absolute biggest concerns, though. For all the faults in its battle system, I think FFIV actually got difficulty exactly right, so I feel like I'd be doing it a disservice if I made this hack too easy or too hard.

-Furio's (in-battle) all-red ensemble could use a secondary color IMO. It's hard to make out what his clothes are supposed to look like, as opposed to eg. the Ninja recruit's getup.

Without giving too much away (I hope), there is a reason for his lack of color diversity. He has an optional costume change much later in the game that would introduce more colors into the mix.

-I like the idea behind the temporary recruit system...it lets you experiment with party members of varying abilities without having to write around them in plot.

My hope is that the game will be of fairly equal difficulty regardless of who you hire. Due to the nature of the "shadow party," there's a limit to the amount of inactive character storage, so hired help lose all data when they're dismissed, but the mages will get to keep their spell books

When Porom isn't looking, Palom writes pamphlets about himself

Haha. I can't stop chuckling abut this since I read it last night. I've been working on refining my FF4kster config files to help avoid this type of thing, but there's clearly still some work to do on that front.

[Kea]

Yeah I skipped the Fat Chocobo, I thought he was for storage only like usual. But since Chocobos are an optional feature I think it's alright if they're potentially missable.

What emulator do you use to play FF II? Both ZSNES and SNES9x's latest releases give me issues with text boxes; ZSNES cuts away the lower border, and SNES9x sometimes omits the bottom line of text.

I also ask this because attempting to leave Mysidia takes me back to the House of Prayers, and I'm wondering if this is just me or what.

[chillyfeez]

I actually have a hack that turns the "Change" command in the menu screen (not the one in battle) into "Cache," which gives the player access to the backup storage at whim. I just haven't put that into my project yet. Once that's available, it should be more obvious that that is not what the fat chocobo is there for.

I usually use Geiger's SNES 9X debugger for my play testing because it allows me to fix things on the fly. It's a little troubling that you're also experiencing that last line getting cut off thing. I had convinced myself it was just my computer being stupid.  Guess I'll have to look into that, and hope it's just a messed up decreasing x-register or something.

The leaving Mysidia thing is probably a trigger issue. I took the exit triggers out in favor of "return" tiles, thinking it wouldn't matter because I got rid of the serpent road, but maybe I forgot about some other reason those were there.

[chillyfeez]

This update should fix the trigger issue in Mysidia. You can now exit the town instead of being teleported back to the house of wishes.

Also, for anyone who has made it that far, the demo no longer ends at the end of the Misty Cave. Now you can enter thee town of Mist, though there's nothing to do there but talk to some old people.

I haven't changed the treasures in Rydia's house yet, so if you want an authentic experience, don't open those chests.

Version 0.4.3b

[chillyfeez]

New update available!
Lots more to do in the game now...

• Baron Town and Castle are fully explorable - lots of fun NPCs. The "kissing girl" at the Baron seaport is a hoot.
• Mist Cave fully explorable - the encounters have been updated to reflect the later stage of game (vs original ffiv). The cave itself is really nothing new. I haven't changed the treasures. I might not at all. There's a new version of a certain familiar Boss Monster, though...
• Mist Town fully explorable - it's a sleepy little town compared to all the others so far. That's mostly story-driven, though...
• LOTS of new story scenes - probably about 5-10 minutes worth of required event alone. There's an epic choice in there, too
• Enter the new dungeon, Highwind Pass - not close to fully explorable yet, but at least you can go in now...
• New characters available - Ceodore, Lando (the hired dragoon) and Rydia join the fray. Rydia joins at level 50, so this creates some interesting challenges in light of monsters leveling up
• New side-stuff to uncover - mostly chocobo related... Without giving too much away immediately, the chocobo time trials are now available!

I played v0.5.0 through and then did some bug fixing,  but I haven't played 0.5.1 through fully yet, so anyone who plays, do feel free to show me what I inevitably missed. I think this should be compatible with previous saves. I think...

FFIV: A Threat From Within (Demo v0.5.1)
Apply to a clean, unheadered final Fantasy II (US) v1.1 ROM

Oh, props to Bahamut ZERO for his new design of Rydia. She looks awesome!

[Grimoire LD]

I am finally prepared for these projects which means I should have a bit of time to play around here again (I hope I won't be too rusty!) and what better way to come back then to actually play the newest demo of Threat from Within! While I'm busy for the weekend I will get to it this Sunday.

[chillyfeez]

Woohoo!
Looking forward to your feedback. I'm not quite sure where you left off the last time you played, but if your save won't work, let me know, I may be able to tell you which flags to turn on/off in order to make whatever's next accessible.

[Grimoire LD]

Was the Edge tutorial battle length increased (or given a set goal?) I noticed that it didn't end as soon as I recall it before. (Since I don't recall Edge ever using Burn.) I also have to note I like the expanded backstory on the Chocobos. When you originally set it up it seemed a bit wordy and out of universe, but this new setup fits perfectly with the arranged storyline and the Big Chocobo's mission.

The idea of the Fat Chocobo being a "national treasure!" works really well with Edge's greediness, haha!

Oh ho! Looks like you have Cache working now. That bag graphic is nice!

So the Training Room is complete in this version, let's give it a look over..

I love the dialogue on the old man who explain the Experience and Enemy Level Up Systems. This is also enhanced by the Clock on the wall.

Moogle Enthusiasts? This must relate back to the Mog Sidequest you were talking about a while back.

So you've implemented in the terrain based encounters now as well? Neat!

By "enemy leaders" he's referring to Bosses, I imagine? Or are there some encounters that have a leader with one-time steal rare items as well?

The Limit Skill tutorial is rather neat, good work great use of sprite animations.

Party might forget whose turn it is? What does that mean?

Well I pressed every part of the wall I could, but I couldn't find a way to open that secret door. I may have to look a little more acrefully.

Hmm, new enemies in Agart this time around (well I mean, "new" as in a greater variety. Can even steal FireBombs from the SandMen, hah.

You can steal Cure2 from the Larvas... is that intended?

Hmm, Imp Hit didn't actually seem to deal any damage.

That new Kunai graphic looks great!

The fight with Ifrit felt like it took a bit longer than it did last time. I'm currently seeing if it's still possible to solo, and while it is difficult now that you can't grind to overpower the enemies, it is doable in Agart. (Also selling the Emerald ring might help, but I'm not so...)  The Bomb without two levels under your belt is instant death from Explode without doubt though. It took a couple of tries to get through it all.

One weird thing that happened during the fight with Ifrit though, when I stole from him the game stopped displaying its message box. The message boxes were still working but not for Steal.

Ah, that's the reason why... It seems like he has a guaranteed Job Card drop. Interesting, I never knew it didn't display the message.

Well, about time to call it for now, I 'll get back to it soon though.

[chillyfeez]

I wasn't going to ask you specifically to start from the beginning again, but admittedly, I'm glad you did :)

Was the Edge tutorial battle length increased (or given a set goal?) I noticed that it didn't end as soon as I recall it before. (Since I don't recall Edge ever using Burn.)

He uses burn if you don't use Fight within the first three (or four?) turns. It's always been that way. Then you have three or four more turns until the battle ends. Basically, you have a limited amount of time to get the one-chance-only Emerald ring. It's not a difficult steal, but not a guarantee, and if you're not trying from the beginning, you might miss it.

I also have to note I like the expanded backstory on the Chocobos. When you originally set it up it seemed a bit wordy and out of universe, but this new setup fits perfectly with the arranged storyline and the Big Chocobo's mission.

The idea of the Fat Chocobo being a "national treasure!" works really well with Edge's greediness, haha!

I kind of wish I had made his greediness a bigger part of the story because of all of the off-handed references, but I also kinda like that it's just a part of his personality casually peppered into the story.

Oh ho! Looks like you have Cache working now. That bag graphic is nice!

I finally got to the point in playing through where I needed more space in my inventory, so it seemed like a good time to finally put cache in. The bag graphic was actually quite an ordeal... As I've said many times before, I'm no pixel artist, and finding a stock 32x32, 8-color backpack graphic online was no small feat. Then there was figuring out how to replace the fat chocobo there... And the fact that it has a different message when called from the world map vs. Being called from a location map.
Sheesh...
I like the result, though. Glad you approve :)

So the Training Room is complete in this version, let's give it a look over..

I love the dialogue on the old man who explain the Experience and Enemy Level Up Systems. This is also enhanced by the Clock on the wall.

Thanks for noticing. That was exactly the intention!

Moogle Enthusiasts? This must relate back to the Mog Sidequest you were talking about a while back.

I actually haven't put moogle enthusiasts into Baron or Mist yet, because the availability of the moogle side quest is still so far off, but the intention is exactly the same as it's ever been...

So you've implemented in the terrain based encounters now as well? Neat!

They've been there for a while, actually, but the opportunity to explore multiple terrains in the world map has been minimal until very recently.

By "enemy leaders" he's referring to Bosses, I imagine? Or are there some encounters that have a leader with one-time steal rare items as well?

No, it's bosses, but saying "bosses" in the context of the game breaks the fourth wall a bit, I think...

The Limit Skill tutorial is rather neat, good work great use of sprite animations.

Thanks! I struggled with figuring out how to make the "limit victim" constantly "attack" so that that little interaction made sense.

Party might forget whose turn it is? What does that mean?

I discovered through quite a bit of play testing that using x to defer a lot can occasionally expose a bug that makes characters defer when you don't want them to. Mostly this happens when you're trying to spam the limit breaks. Honest players will see it rarely at most. It's just a warning that it's a thing that might happen if you abuse it.

Well I pressed every part of the wall I could, but I couldn't find a way to open that secret door. I may have to look a little more acrefully.

Huh... There must be some way to get in there...
;)

Hmm, new enemies in Agart this time around (well I mean, "new" as in a greater variety. Can even steal FireBombs from the SandMen, hah.

I guess I didn't mention yet that I did adjust the stuff that can be stolen from monsters. Also, a successful steal now yields the third item in the steal table, thus allowing for more incentive to steal from regular monsters but still allowing them to give a rare drop.

You can steal Cure2 from the Larvas... is that intended?

Yup. They're pretty rare this early n, and you pretty much have to steal from everyone (or know ahead of time) to figure that out.

Hmm, Imp Hit didn't actually seem to deal any damage.

It doesn't have 100% accuracy, but if it lands at this point in the game, it can make things pretty tough. Heh... Just wait til you have Rydia and you're facing Imp Caps!

That new Kunai graphic looks great!

Thanks for pointing out why it wasn't working before!

The fight with Ifrit felt like it took a bit longer than it did last time. I'm currently seeing if it's still possible to solo, and while it is difficult now that you can't grind to overpower the enemies, it is doable in Agart. (Also selling the Emerald ring might help, but I'm not so...)  The Bomb without two levels under your belt is instant death from Explode without doubt though. It took a couple of tries to get through it all.

Yeah... I've never tried to solo, but I imagine it's possible if you spam stealing appropriately. It would definitely make battles like the bomb miniboss tougher, but remember that explode deals damage equal to the caster's current HP, so hit first, then steal would be the better strategy, I'd say.
As for selling the Emerald ring... That's exactly the scruple I want the player to face. I mean, it is a terrible piece of equipment, but it sells for, what, 5000 GP? But you only get one. Ever. It does have a purpose down the road. That's a promise.
I did increase Jinn's HP a bit. With two characters, it should require three "cool downs"before it's over. Unless you spend too much time trying to steal...

One weird thing that happened during the fight with Ifrit though, when I stole from him the game stopped displaying its message box. The message boxes were still working but not for Steal.

Ah, that's the reason why... It seems like he has a guaranteed Job Card drop. Interesting, I never knew it didn't display the message.

Me neither. I was confused about that, too, but in the end it was more important to show the player that Job Cards are expensive but not impossible to come by. I want players to feel free to explore the benefits of different hired characters.