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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2013, 02:41:34 PM »
When your attack power reaches 190 or so, you are suddenly able to make a dent vs Flan (outside of the Flan Princess). This makes me wonder how base damage is calculated...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #91 on: January 22, 2013, 12:36:23 PM »
My guess is that Attack Power is secretly boosted through levels... like a hidden attack power bonus of....

Attack Power Bonus = Attack Power + (Attack Power*(level/3)/100)

I've collected all the Phase equipment, so here's a breakdown.

Phase Cutter - +20 STR
Phase Shield - Holy resistance (didn't check for Darkness resistance, will try soon), craploads of evasion+magic evasion
Phase Helm - +20 SPR, INT, Ice resistance
Phase Body - +20 STA, Fire resistance
Phase Knuckles - +20 AGI, Lightning resistance

The Phase Body is overrated, since the other armors can provide more useful bonuses... but it does increase evasion which I guess is nice.

 :edit:

Also, I found out you can cast Arise on a character, despite them not being dead. Apparently it heals the target to the max anyways.

 :edit:
Phase Shield has no Darkness resistance (not that it matters).

Also, Machine Break breaks down to the combination of Cid and Cecil's normal attack, with a 50% damage bonus... and a 50% damage bonus to that if the target is a Machine. The only issue is that you need the Limit Ring to expose this (I've seen it do 20K with the Ultima Weapon+Thor's Hammer) and that to really benefit, the target should be a machine... but for 7MP, this is insane really (Rapid Ring v2 should help with the band and his speed). Unfortunately, this is affected by row (for both characters I think).

 :edit:
Calca and Brina are ultimate what Palom and Porom would be like if they were fighters... especially given the XP requirements for the dolls...

I have no idea why Harley gains the slowest levels... but surely she could cast some spells with whatever pathetic MP she has....

Cid's Risk Strike does force a Critical Hit (50% damage increase) but consider the following:
When the moon phase is beneficial, the damage dealt is almost 2 times his normal attack...
100 * 1.5 (critical hit bonus) * 1.25 (moon) = 187.5
Risk Strike is useful if you want to avoid HP or physical based counters.... because sometimes not killing the monster outright will get you killed (think Coeurls) or you simply want to avoid damage received by a counter...
Critical Hits happens only <5% of the time (maybe more), but this increases your chances to about 50%... so it's not as risky as it sounds.

Just simply DO NOT use it against monsters with the boss bit. It will fail all the time.

I will be looking into Palom's Boast vs monsters....

 :edit:
Also...

Jump and Focus actually doubles the attack power like before. I haven't looked into Human Kite though... critical hits don't increase attack power though.

 :edit:
I'm starting to think the RNG can be rigged like in the Wii port, but it requires either some thought to being quick and using multitarget spells or bands like Quake and occasionally some insanely damaging single target bands...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013, 07:34:20 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2013, 12:48:20 AM »
I have come to the lame conclusion of GP Rain's formula:
Damage = LEVEL * LEVEL * .25

Somebody needs to revamp Harley's skills... badly.

I gave Zangetsu not so hot credit... he does have a better armor pool and MP pool to work with, unlike Kain. The only issue that he has no distinct spell of his own...
Izayoi has Healing Salve (Curaga-like)...
Gekkou has Feedback Wave (Revenge)
Tsuiknowa has Restore Weed (Basuna?)
Edge has no distinct spell, but he has all the fundamental Ninjutsu.

Gekkou may arguably be the fastest version of Cid (and Luca, but she gets all the really good armor). His spells probably aren't worth writing home about... but the bands he has are really nice and the only stuff you'd really want to throw are Shurikens....

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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2013, 04:22:33 PM »
OK, some info about Bluff - feel free to argue or whatever about the points I'm about to make:

Bluff's description is straight forward, at least with regards to Palom, however, the other aspect of it affecting the enemy is critical importance.

So, this is how it works...

For Palom's INT boosting to work, a monster must actually be affected by Bluff ("The monster cringes" message must be displayed). You can see the monster affected by a different/darker shading of the monsters when afflicted. This doesn't happen vs bosses and in fact, does not work vs any monster with the boss bit. Bluff is useless vs bosses and those monsters that have the boss bit.

When successful, Palom's spell multiplier seems to increase by 1... probably more as more monsters are affected. This can be repeated as many times AFAIK as there is a magic stat on the monster and this can effectively boost the spell multiplier past 25 (which is the normal cap on such magic multipliers).

The other side of the coin is that the monster's magic stat seems to decrease by 1. It will take a minimum of 4 Bluffs to reduce the spell multiplier of the monster. You can effectively "mind drain" a monster to death if you have the patience to do so.

This was tested against Dark Sages (2 Dark Sages+Armored Fiend). Their spells started to "lose power" as Palom continued to Bluff them to stupidity. I made Palom used Bio (with a spell multiplier of 22, 84 INT) and that only damaged the 2 Sages by the normal damage (2600 or so) and by the time I "mind drained" them to death... Palom would do 5k+ damage to both and their spells started to miss outright.

This command is helped by the "mage" tower in Palom's tale, where draining the low magic stats of the monsters really does help Palom a lot when you need him to deal damage in addition to reducing the power of the magic there.

Palom also has the Limit Ring, which may or may not be a factor in this discussion.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2013, 01:06:25 AM »
I will look into the bands Temptation (Rydia, Rosa, Izayoi, Harley) and Weapon In Progress (Harley, Edward, Cid, Luca) sometime soon.

Apparently every character must have a min of 5 bands...

If I forgot to mention earlier.. Ultima Spark (Golbez+Cecil) does the same damage to all enemies unless there is one, where it then deals 50% damage than normal.

Break Breaker doesn't seem to exceed 9999 damage (although I haven't actually tweaked Palom and Porom's stats enough to make it so), but it allows Cecil to do 25% more damage or so to all targets.
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »
Temptation is not that impressive. It's kinda like Flare+Confuse, but weaker. I think the spell power is Flare or slightly less than that. The band attempts to apply Confuse at the end.

Most of the attack is cosmetic as far as I can tell and is affected by the Black Magic moon phase. No part of this attack seems physical at all outside of applying Confuse status thru the arrow portions. This attack heavily relies on Rydia's INT.

Feast of the Land seems to heal according to this:
Base Healing = Harley's LEVEL * 20
Range is 25% of the base healing

There's supposed to be a second "weapon" created by Weapon in Progress, but I've only been able to get the healing... which is determined by the following formula:
Healing = (Edward's Current HP + Harley's Current HP + 400) * .5
All characters are healed the same value that is produced (so, not affected by splitting targets). There's no variation of the healing number.

So, it's like a "team" version of White Wind (similar to Phantom Lightflies, but not with the same MP and HP algo).

Anyways... that should cover it.

Also, I love how FFWiki is completely wrong about the formula for Gil Toss for Harley. If the formula was even remotely true, it should deal almost 3k damage at level 99... which doesn't happen. I also do not remember Harley doing 1.2k damage with it at level 40 (in Edward's Tale).

 :edit:
With regards to combinations for Temptation, it goes great to add Leonora for Wild Whip. You then allow for some additional combos with Leonora like Frost Wave with Izayoi... and well, Rosa+Rydia has their Holy Flare Band. There's not much else of note really.

Weapon In Progress limits your combos to two other characters... Cecil (Machine Break with Cid and Sword Dance with Edward) and Rydia (Thunder Wave with Luca and Mirage Song with Edward).

My Gil Toss algo is wrong... but trying to figure out the following is not that easy:
Level 40 - 600+ damage
Level 99 - 2500+ damage

We do know that the algo is based on level... but it's not that simple.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 02:01:48 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #96 on: January 24, 2013, 03:31:41 PM »
OK, this is my revised Gil Toss algo...

Harley's LEVEL * (Spell Multiplier * Attack Multiplier - 1)

I've noticed that it was somehow easy to manipulate thru increasing the Attack Multiplier... but not so much the Spell Multiplier (via INT).

This will need to be revised, but these are my preliminary findings.
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #97 on: January 24, 2013, 04:28:05 PM »
I think I've reworked it the way I believe is correct... so here it goes:

(Harley's LEVEL * Attack Multiplier * 1.5) + (Harley's LEVEL * .5 * Harley's Spell Multiplier [INT])

So when you plug this in...

Level 40 Harley has an Attack Multiplier of 6, with an INT of 44.

(40 * 6 * 1.5) + (40 * .5 * 12)

360 + 240 = 600

Level 99 Harley can gain an Attack Multiplier of 14, with an INT of 60 (Assassin Dagger, Adamant Shield, Cat's Hood/White Tiger Mask, Brave Suit/Red Jacket, Crystal Ring)

(99 * 14 * 1.5) + (99 * .5 * 16)

2079 + 792 = 2871

There's a range of sorts, I think it's like up to 100 to 150, but I'm not entirely sure.

 :edit:
Only the Cursed Ring would find a way to screw up the numbers. I don't even know where to begin. I'm very sure that her attack multiplier (and AGI to an extent) has a greater effect in boosting Gil Toss than her INT, which only grows it oh so slightly.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 04:45:39 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2013, 05:44:21 PM »
I never expected Harley's int to actually have a purpose! And that information about the new Bluff being Completely different from the old Bluff is very neat. I didn't think they'd go that far in depth with it. I still don't understand why there's so much that you can't use on bosses though. It would have made a lot of skills (and characters) a lot neater in my opinion.

Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2013, 06:26:48 PM »
I need to thoroughly test Bluff on dumb monsters like the Goblin Prince to see if it makes a difference. Bluff would be useless in this game if Bluff was the same as before... so having it not pro-boss isn't that much of a loss.

Most of the anti-boss skills would be overpowered IMO... ever tried using the Debilitator on bosses? That's Piercing Sight if it were enabled. I'm sure there's a few other commands that would have a legit reason to be usable on bosses... but most of the time, there's not.
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #100 on: January 24, 2013, 07:15:50 PM »
Well yes Debilitator is one of my favorite tools in FFVI for that very reason. Hehe. The issue with Piercing Sight is that... Harley's not a swell character to begin with, if Piercing Sight could hit bosses it would give her an additional purpose in boss fights and unlike FFVI (I think anyhow) you can only add one weakness to one enemy. (Why it can cause Dark weakness when there is no character with access to Dark attacks is beyond me though)

You mentioned that Risky Strike is a non-boss skill as well, if I recall? I think that's definitely a legitimate one.

Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #101 on: January 24, 2013, 10:58:19 PM »
I just wanted to add that Gil Toss is also affected by STR as well. Even having a Headband will increase the damage output a little bit.

I'm not sure if critical strikes have additional properties other than increasing damage by 50%... if it does, that would be the only reason why.
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2013, 02:08:39 PM »
I watched some youtube vids about all the bands and found something of interest.

King's Quad is definitely a combination of all 4 characters (Yang, Cecil, Edge, Edward) plus 50% damage. The healing however is specifically 1/4 of Edward's Current HP (with slight randomness and heals all targets equally). It helps to heal Edward before executing the band.

I tried Go! Calcabrena! Band on the Blue Dragon... it's only took 1/2 the damage despite having two elementals... this leads me to believe the elementals don't stack, and that Wheel of Elements is kinda weak as a Band.

Watching the youtube vid... Advent of Phoenix (all ninjas) is simply a fire elemental band that executes the effect of Feedback Wave... this is great against a Behemoth that uses Maelstrom on you (and the Fiend Dragon I think), but nothing else.

Bluff does an additional feature that I hadn't really paid much attention to. It lowers the Magic Defense of the monsters by 1/4, and is capped to only work twice so at best you can lower the monster's magic defense by 1/2. This is a great skill vs high magic defense monsters that you can actually apply this too... (which should actually make killing Mad Ogres much easier actually). This was tested vs the Great Malboro (254 magic defense) with the -aga spells. On the 2nd Bluff, you are able to deal significant damage vs its crippled magic defense. The later boasts only seem to increase the damage slightly.

You only need one monster to increase Palom's spell multiplier thru Bluff. Having more monsters affected does not increase the spell multiplier quicker. However, the number of monsters affected seem to be capped to 3(?) and I need to try against bigger groups... as the monsters in the back are not affected (tried vs 2 Goblin Princes and 2 Sahagin Princes). Monsters do not need a Magic stat to have Palom gain the spell multiplier... they simply need to "cringe".

Also, I thought the armors for the dolls would give them resistance (mainly, the body armor), but it's actually the Phase Equipment that provides this benefit.. here's a quick listing.
Phase Shield - Silence, Confuse
Phase Helm - Death (gee, you don't say?)
Phase Body - Stone, Poison (like the Deathmask, hard like a rock)
Phase Knuckles - Paralysis, Sleep, Berserk (think Crystal Ring, but like 4 times better)
Angel's Clothes - Death (it's probably like the regular doll clothes resistances, plus Death, which is kinda disappointing)

Now, I will start the fight vs the Giant of Babil or whatever that is... I've collected 8 Pink Armors, 7 Artemis Bows, 7 Artemis Arrows, 20 or so combined total of Crystal and Protect Rings... so that should make this easy enough... I hope.

 :edit:
Phase Shield and Angel's Clothes also blocks Curse
Lunar Mail doesn't block Curse

I'm kinda annoyed there are no monsters in the final section of the game that inflicts Blind status...
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 03:45:32 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2013, 02:49:49 PM »
Alright, I got around to beating the crap outta Lost Babil (and watched a few Youtube vids along the way). Here's a synopsis:

Constructing the team:
Party 1:  Palom's Angels (Palom, Ursula, Porom, Luca, Leonora) [2-3 formation]
Goal: Pound the living crap out of the torso and/or hand with Petal Whirlwind

This portion of the monster likes fire (Thermal Rays) and ice (Freezing Winds) with a little gradual petrify.

Protect Rings and stuff from the Dragon armor series helps here. Ribbons or at least some Aegis Shields would work just as well. Other useful armor include the Cat Ear Hood and Red Cap/Jacket.

Since both monster spells have a very LOW spell power, surviving gradual petrification is easier (it's like Barbariccia, except just dumb). Not difficult.

Using Petal Whirlwind was great... in fact since Ursula was equipped with the Dragon Claw AND Godhand (both Holy elemental)... the attack did 50% more damage to the torso.. the hand didn't get the bonus damage. Apparently, the torso is vs Holy... so it makes a lot of sense to give Ursula elemental claws with Petal Whirlwind to deal exceptional damage (probably a great idea for the final bonus actually).

Blink is annoying, but easy to remove since the back row is a bunch of mages...

Party 2: Team Ninja (Zangetsu, Izayoi, Gekkou, Edge, Tsukinowa) [3-2 formation]
Goal: Pounding the living crap out of the head...

The character in the middle needs to be the damage absorber, as it seems to be targeted the most with Holy, Flare, and whatnot (occasional Firaga). Gekkou is great for this.

The chest seems to like to use Curaja, only rarely... and the hand is easy to quiet down. The problem is that you suffer from having to do long range targeting to the head...

The monster summoning is kinda meh... as Edge with the Rising Sun is more than capable of killing it from the back row. It takes a while before the monster summons the monster for bestiary purposes.

Healing is primarily through Izayoi, and Edge as the primary backup (Tsukinowa is the worst of the healers).

It helps to put the hand to "sleep" as it tries to annoy with with Firaga and some hits...

The best band to use was Wheel of Elements.. which I didn't expect it to be effective, but it really is. 15MP per character is worth it...

It may be difficult to get the armor for all the ninjas - you need to obtain some Pink Armors (at least 2) for Ursula since the armors she uses (Red Jacket and Brave Suit) are ninja compatible. Fire Scarf and Ninja Garb solve only two characters... so the second Pink Armor would go to Izayoi.

Bile and Bad Breath is part of the lame repitoire of the Malboro... but easily fixable with Rune Armlets and other stuff that blocks ANY of its statuses (Blind, Silence, Toad, Mini, Pig, Confuse).

Party 2 should primarily be designed to target from long distance... whether by bands, magic, or attacks (special or not).

Party 3: Team Baron with Rydia, minus Cid (Ceodore, Rosa, Cecil, Rydia, Kain)
Goal: Trinity Crusade to vs the CPU, Thunder Wave the rest

The difficulty here is trying to fit armor and equipment that is shared between Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore (and to Luca to a smaller extent). The Ultima Weapon, Ragnarok, and Holy Lance can be juggled a bit (Excalibur is the last resort with the Wyvern Lances as alternatives). Lunar equipment are only shared between Cecil+Ceodore... and Kain's best set would include portion of the Crystal armor set (with from Dragon armor that you can keep around).

I don't think there are any status effects to worry about... you simply have to be able to make sure you heal the character hit by the lame beam attack that deals 1/2 Max HP damage plus Sap... which should be easily solvable with Ceodore as the extra healer in the group.

It helps to lead off with Effect Form and then Thunder Wave... Ceodore and Rosa can cast Haste on Ceodore and Rydia on the next turn easily. Trinity Crusade is the goal... unlike the other parts of the Giant of Babil... this part is wicked easy.

 :edit:
Characters not chosen/considered:
Golbez - shares too much with Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore... could be difficult to set up, but the Enhancement Sword and his Ebony Robe should be enough to worry about.
Cid - too slow... Luca and Gekkou are better for what you need them for
Yang - kinda slow... you'd have to have a King's Band setup to make him reasonably useful (his Slow band with Ursula is semi useful as you need to hit multiple targets with them), he shares too much stuff with Ursula
Calca and Brena - it's worth considering ONLY if you get their best equipment.... they are most useful in part 1 of the battle and you could get away with using Luca and these two for Go! Calcabrena!
Edward - despite having a nifty weapon in Loki's Lute, it's useless for this battle (it's the weakest standalone weapon compared to the Artemis Bow and Arrow at this point)... he'd be great for healing, but not much else
Harley - useless w/o Edward, and even then you would be limited to her pathetic attack/skills and limited healing bands (you don't design your teams for Weapon in Progress or the special whip attacks)... at best the Feast of the Land band would be useful for the 1st part of the battle (and you could skip on her power by making her waste a turn vs Blink).

I had some time today to consider one potential team... this only sound good on paper:
Cecil, Golbez, Zangetsu, Tsuiknowa (and Ceodore)
You have two bands that can haste the party and slow down the enemy party. Adding Ceodore would allow for the Advanced Blade band and you can easily keep Zangetsu (Human Kite) and Tsuiknowa (boomerang) in the back. You could also put Golbez in the back since he can use magic, but he's better up front for regular fights...

I also like this party that I was testing with...
Luca, Calca, Brena, Palom, Leonora
This allows me to use the nice low cost Go! Calcabrena! band and use Ice Crush... good times. Helps to have Luca with the Limit Ring for this.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 03:11:12 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #104 on: January 26, 2013, 05:51:18 PM »
Petal Whirlwind is Holy elemental... so if the target is weak against it, you will deal 50% more damage. Monsters resisting it will take 50% less damage. Descriptions suck.

Wheel of Elements must have some weak spell power base or something... despite apply 4 elementals (Fire, Ice, Lightning, and Wind), the Blue Dragon only needs to resist one to deal less damage. However, I don't know how to explain how it deals damage to the monsters with 254 magic defense. It might have the same collective power as the -aga spells (since it has been noted that the Ninjutsu spells involved are generally -ara level based).

With that said, Lost Babil's second battle has all their parts and summoned monster having really really bad magic defense (the highest is 10 from the summoned monsters) which is why it was so successful. Go figure.

 :edit:
I have determined that Particle Bomb is essentially a -aga level spell... that has no elemental (Spell Power = 256). Tested vs Flan and High Magic Defense monsters such as the Selene Guardian.

I believe all the 2nd level Ninjutsu based spells have a spell power of 200. The numbers seem to work out like that... they can't hurt any high magic defense monster...

Wheel of Elements seems to have a spell power of 256. I figured this out when using it vs the high magic defense monster Dinozombie... which happens to have a weakness vs Fire.

I'm starting to think Blitz doesn't have an instant death property... but perhaps the Bug kills itself when hit by Lightning as part of its battle script.

I found something worth mentioning... if a band attack like Wheel of Elements has multiple elements as part of the attack... the damage dealt to monsters will be based on how the monster reacts to the element. If the monster resists/absorbs one (or more) of the elements, they will take 50% less damage. If the monster is weak vs one (or more) of the elements, they will take 2 times the normal damage... but this is cumulative.

For example, the Red Dragon absorbs Fire and is weak vs Ice.

If Wheel of Elements deals 10k damage vs most monsters that have no elemental weaknesses or resistances (assuming Limit Ring is in use)...

The weakness to ice will allow Wheel of Elements to do an additional 10k of damage.
The resistance/absorption to fire will cause Wheel of Elements to lose 5k of damage.

10k + 10k - 5k = 15k

In sum, you will be always doing only 50% more damage than normal under these circumstances.

Also, I had forgotten to mention that when monsters are weak vs the elemental weapon you possess, you actually double the attack power of the character. This is most noticeable against monsters like the Dust Mousse (Flan) that is weak vs Holy.

I think Bluff's magic defense lowering attribute is actually cumulative... it reduces the monster's Magic Defense by 1/16 (of its Magic Defense) and it will take practically 16 turns of Bluff to negate the existence of the monster's magic defense.... it could actually reduce it by 16 though (it would make some sense).
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 08:25:39 PM by Deathlike2 »
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