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Author Topic: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)  (Read 17051 times)

chillyfeez

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2015, 11:48:13 AM »
What about making the door tile an event trigger instead of a warp, then put an invisible warp in the next tile beyond?
The same event call could be used multiple times for the trap door battle, then the proper warp follows if the battle is won.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #136 on: February 07, 2015, 09:19:55 PM »
Quote from: chillyfeez on February 07, 2015, 11:48:13 AM
What about making the door tile an event trigger instead of a warp, then put an invisible warp in the next tile beyond?
The same event call could be used multiple times for the trap door battle, then the proper warp follows if the battle is won.

I would think it would make traversing the place much more annoying that Every Time you go to move to another floor or pretty much anything you're forced to fight a TrapDoor.. if I'm understanding this correctly? Also aren't Event Calls a lot more valuable than NPC slots?
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chillyfeez

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2015, 11:51:26 PM »
I'm not sure if you fully caught what I was suggesting...
But I also didn't think it through thoroughly, so it may be a moot point.
... Or maybe not...

What I was thinking was, where you would normally put the trap door NPC, you put an event trigger instead (fight with trap door). Then, assuming victory, the tile just beyond that would be the warp point. You could use the same event call for every instance of this, except the trap door would re-arm every time.
This wouldn't be a huge problem, though in theory...

Ok, here's what I'm thinking:
Let's say there's normally a trap door NPC at coordinates 15,5.
That means that the door is also at 15,5.
You'd have to make sure the door for this tileset is a trigger (I'm not looking, so I don't know). The trigger built into the door would be the event call for the trap door fight (that would be the only component of the event).
Then, at 15,4 there would be another trigger point that would function as the warp to the next room. In the next room, instead of a "return" tile, you'd have a warp tile to exit. This warp would warp you to 15,6 so that you don't have to fight the same trap door again if you don't want to (but it would be there again if you did choose to reenter that room).
In theory, this would all work. You'd have to eliminate practically all return tiles in the dungeon because of stack issues this would cause otherwise. Some players might object to regenerating trap doors, but it would be consistent with the challenge level of Combat Boost, and a second fight with each would be entirely elective. By doing it this way, you could reuse the same event call for every trap door.
Does that make sense? Sorry, I was kind of thinking it out as I typed... But I think it would work.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2015, 01:32:47 AM »
Quote from: chillyfeez on February 07, 2015, 11:51:26 PM
I'm not sure if you fully caught what I was suggesting...
But I also didn't think it through thoroughly, so it may be a moot point.
... Or maybe not...

What I was thinking was, where you would normally put the trap door NPC, you put an event trigger instead (fight with trap door). Then, assuming victory, the tile just beyond that would be the warp point. You could use the same event call for every instance of this, except the trap door would re-arm every time.
This wouldn't be a huge problem, though in theory...

Ok, here's what I'm thinking:
Let's say there's normally a trap door NPC at coordinates 15,5.
That means that the door is also at 15,5.
You'd have to make sure the door for this tileset is a trigger (I'm not looking, so I don't know). The trigger built into the door would be the event call for the trap door fight (that would be the only component of the event).
Then, at 15,4 there would be another trigger point that would function as the warp to the next room. In the next room, instead of a "return" tile, you'd have a warp tile to exit. This warp would warp you to 15,6 so that you don't have to fight the same trap door again if you don't want to (but it would be there again if you did choose to reenter that room).
In theory, this would all work. You'd have to eliminate practically all return tiles in the dungeon because of stack issues this would cause otherwise. Some players might object to regenerating trap doors, but it would be consistent with the challenge level of Combat Boost, and a second fight with each would be entirely elective. By doing it this way, you could reuse the same event call for every trap door.
Does that make sense? Sorry, I was kind of thinking it out as I typed... But I think it would work.

It does indeed make sense, but I've never been a fan of those TrapDoors, nor of the rooms with nothing in them. Your idea would work if I hadn't planned to already cannibalize all of the optional maps in the Sealed Cave for new dungeons. Underworld spare maps are scarce and these seem the best candidates. 7 TrapDoor events and NPC's will be removed and repurposed the 8 that do guard something meaningful, if it's a Treasure Room the TrapDoor's will literally spit the treasure out when you beat them as the second part of their event, thereby the rooms they guard will no longer be necessary and I can free up those treasure indexes as well (not that the Underworld/Moon normally uses even close to 255 treasure spots...)
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chillyfeez

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2015, 09:35:59 AM »
That's cool. Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for a way to actually keep those trap door battles.
I hate them too, but mostly because one character dying is practically unavoidable. I think I'd be OK with them if their battle script was different.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2015, 09:58:45 AM »
Quote from: chillyfeez on February 08, 2015, 09:35:59 AM
That's cool. Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for a way to actually keep those trap door battles.
I hate them too, but mostly because one character dying is practically unavoidable. I think I'd be OK with them if their battle script was different.


Don't worry when I tackle them, I'll do a lot more than "Target" "Dimension 9" . (Partially because Target is gone, haha!) I'll probably make more use of the "monsters emerging from the door!" setup which I always thought was kind of neat from vanilla FFIV. We'll see when I get there though, but don't worry I don't like battles that have that "do or die" mentality. While I like preferred methods, I try not to make them necessary.
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LordGarmonde

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2015, 08:39:27 PM »
Would it make any sense (or even be possible) to write a routine specific to sealed cave that would move the event trigger after each encounter. In my head I'm picturing it like:


     You go to Door-1 at F1:(X,Y)=(10,10) - Triggering Event-A (Door Battle)
                                                                  and Set Trigger Point of Event-B to F1:(X,Y)=(10,9)

     Take a step up, and Trigger Event B:   Move Event-A Trigger to F2:(X,Y)=(8,17)
                                                                  Also clear Event-A Flag

     Then going to the Door-2 @ F2:(X,Y)=(8,17) would trigger Event-A again, and so on...


This to me would allow for multiple door events without actually having them as separate event entries. There would need to be a list in the ROM somewhere of what the next location is, but that seems doable (right?). The other thing I like about that is because the events are no longer at the old battle sites - those doors would just remain open as one would expect.

I realize that this is getting into full out patch territory - but you guys know me: thinking in every direction except forward...  :wink:
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2015, 09:37:04 PM »
Quote from: LordGarmonde on February 08, 2015, 08:39:27 PM
Would it make any sense (or even be possible) to write a routine specific to sealed cave that would move the event trigger after each encounter. In my head I'm picturing it like:


     You go to Door-1 at F1:(X,Y)=(10,10) - Triggering Event-A (Door Battle)
                                                                  and Set Trigger Point of Event-B to F1:(X,Y)=(10,9)

     Take a step up, and Trigger Event B:   Move Event-A Trigger to F2:(X,Y)=(8,17)
                                                                  Also clear Event-A Flag

     Then going to the Door-2 @ F2:(X,Y)=(8,17) would trigger Event-A again, and so on...


This to me would allow for multiple door events without actually having them as separate event entries. There would need to be a list in the ROM somewhere of what the next location is, but that seems doable (right?). The other thing I like about that is because the events are no longer at the old battle sites - those doors would just remain open as one would expect.

I realize that this is getting into full out patch territory - but you guys know me: thinking in every direction except forward...  :wink:

The issue appears in this when there is more than one TrapDoor in the room, this may have possibly worked otherwise, but because of the multiple doors it's not really plausible. Good thinking though.
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LordGarmonde

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2015, 09:47:18 PM »
Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 08, 2015, 09:37:04 PM
The issue appears in this when there is more than one TrapDoor in the room, this may have possibly worked otherwise, but because of the multiple doors it's not really plausible. Good thinking though.

Right!   :sad:  - I actually thought of that too as I was laying it out - but then pushed it out of my mind when I remembered that it's like 50/50 whether or not I'll loot the cave our just go straight start-to-finish.

This could work for the Behemoth battles on the way to Bahamut though; right?
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Apropos of nothing (except of course FFIV)
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2015, 10:35:33 PM »
Quote from: LordGarmonde on February 08, 2015, 09:47:18 PM
Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 08, 2015, 09:37:04 PM
The issue appears in this when there is more than one TrapDoor in the room, this may have possibly worked otherwise, but because of the multiple doors it's not really plausible. Good thinking though.

Right!   :sad:  - I actually thought of that too as I was laying it out - but then pushed it out of my mind when I remembered that it's like 50/50 whether or not I'll loot the cave our just go straight start-to-finish.

This could work for the Behemoth battles on the way to Bahamut though; right?

It would require new code in Bank 00 to look for the map, see the events, and go on from there. As far as the Behemoths are concerned it could work, but it would be a lot of work to set up, it would save some valuable event calls though...
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