Aslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4rpmddblr0qsa28id791kk1410&action=profile;u=6;area=showposts;start=2865e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index2498.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4rpmddblr0qsa28id791kk1410&action=profile;area=showposts;u=6e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index2498.html.zxh^KOKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip8:Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:31:50 GMT0 0Ph^v- Show Posts - Deathlike2

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Messages - Deathlike2

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2866
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Summon Effect Data Peculiarities
« on: March 12, 2008, 11:28:08 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on March 12, 2008, 11:18:13 PM
Asura's multi-Life targeting is also special. If you make a normal Life/Raise spell multi-targeted, it will ignore already dead characters. (I was trying to make a multi-Raise spell, but I can't get around that quite yet.) Asura's revive is special because it will target all characters, even if they are already dead.

I'm trying to remember if it were possible to revive Undead targets to kill them in FF4. I forget if that was a random event or bad memory.. but IIRC undead are the only targets that don't respawn on the revive trick.

The only difference as far as I can tell between Life1/Life2 and Asura's Life spell are their hit rates.

Multitargeted Life1/2 should work (I'll have to test and see).. Rubicante casts a multitargeted Life1. It is possible that it may fail simply due to Magic Evade.

Edit: It seems to work fine on my end. If you're casting this via a low Will character, it might not work the way it should.

2867
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Dispel - Ill Conceived?
« on: March 12, 2008, 11:10:53 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on March 12, 2008, 10:56:17 PM
He casts Disrupt (spell 73 -- different from the instant kill Disrupt), but the name is not shown.

Well, at least there's some difference. It's one possible reason they have two different spell effect bytes.

I guess it could be possible to remove say Haste/Slow or Protect/Shell.. (in order to make the battle fair for the boss).. but it's hard to tell and those aren't really "statuses" by definition. If you've looked over Entroper's FF4A docs, those are a number of statuses that exist other than the obvious status inflictions:

Count
Jump
Twin
Charging (Yang's Build Up command)
Parry (defending for a turn)
Egg (monster spawning)
Stop (well, it's not inflictably by weapons)
Too Heavy (Magnetic Cave)
Critical (CurHP < 1/4 MaxHP)
Cover (target that was targeted with the Cover command)
Image (1 image - also used by FF4's Mist Ring-Dragon combo)
Image (2 images)
Barrier ("stronger" item Reflect status)
HP Leak
Hide

If you have the time, you can test against a number of these that actually can apply to you.

2868
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Dispel - Ill Conceived?
« on: March 12, 2008, 09:31:40 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on March 12, 2008, 09:28:10 PM
The reason Blk.Hole removes reflect is because the spell ignore walls. However, it's effect byte (value 2A) is different from that of Dispel (value 10), so it probably has some differences. Are you sure Blk.Hole doesn't remove any of the other positive statuses (Haste, Protect, Shell, Float)? Any idea what the difference might be?

Haste/Slow affect the ATB only (somehow). Protect/Shell only affect the damage algos for their associated boosts. Float is anyone's guess.

Black Hole is simply a multitargetable, unblockable, and boss compatible dispel.

Edit: Black Hole does remove Float. I guess that's the only slight difference other than Reflect.  :lame:

For a thought, but did you know the form Zeromus engages your party in (the one that requires the Crystal before starting the real battle) casts some sort of Dispel/Black Hole on everyone during that sequence? That also removes Float from your party.

2869
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Completing Weapon-Spell Magic Hacks
« on: March 12, 2008, 09:22:22 PM »
Ok, it seems like Shields can do the magic as well.. I bet if you were to change the proper data, Shields can cast spells as well. The shared value the game checks is Magic Defense... so you would have to start there.

2870
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Weapon Based Spells Hit Rate
« on: March 12, 2008, 07:12:49 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on March 12, 2008, 06:41:23 PM
I noticed the same thing, they have a 100% hit rate. The algorithm for item-spells must not use the hit rate % of the spell. Seems like quite a benefit, considering there's no MP cost as well. Probably why most of the spell power values seem low (I always thought the damage spells were too underpowered to be really useful).

Most of them are relative to the scenario they are in. The status ones always work and it isn't as underpowered as that seems. The attack ones could probably be boosted since they are the spell multipliers. The problem is that there's a good chance of making them too vastly overpowered (such as giving a Rod the Meteo spell, with a 5x magic multiplier).. but potentially you can make the IceRod much stronger than it currently is (not sure if 8 is the limit, but 25 is the maximum spell multiplier due to calculations, but not necessarily a limitation in the spell-weapon-item multiplier).

2871
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Summon Effect Data Peculiarities
« on: March 12, 2008, 07:08:47 PM »
All I can tell is that the first set of summons (in the order that the spell list is in) is display data.. though I bet it is used in the MP check (spell highlighting). The second set is obviously the math part, but it's a little more than that. In JCE's hack, only one of Asura's spells only consume the amount that's listed in the menu, so the internal data is taken into account here.

As for Sylph, it might simply just be the spell MP consumption for it is hardcoded, or the range of spells are hardcoded or something.. or maybe bad logic? Go figure.

Offensive summons were never meant to target your guys ever...

There's a chance that there is some data tied to the spells effects themselves.. that's probably what you want to look at.

2872
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: 1GP Sell Price Bit
« on: March 12, 2008, 05:22:59 PM »
Well, that makes me kinda wonder about Summon spells and if they use a bit or a hardcoded range to determine it is a summon (for the internal value multiplier)... although, it's curious how they are listed twice in the spell list.. maybe that's producing the x8 spell base instead of the x4 that all normal spells go through...

2873
General Discussion / Re: The official "Happy Birthday" thread!
« on: March 12, 2008, 04:30:11 PM »
I'm not much of a birthday celebrating guy, but eh...

Enjoy life to the best that you can, because life is too short sometimes.

Hopefully you have gotten older and wiser and pray that life doesn't get "old" for you.

Ok, enough with my random speech.

2874
General Discussion / Re: Paladin...
« on: March 12, 2008, 04:15:41 PM »
Paladin, have you looked into testing the shields and see if they use the spell power byte...? It seems to me that they can carry a spell based on their Magic Defense value.

I've been able to do strange targeting with Shields, so I suspect there is a correlation of sorts.

2875
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Holy Grail - Magic Algorithm
« on: March 12, 2008, 04:04:24 PM »
Updated algo to factor in weapons that cast magic when used as an item.

2876
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Weapon Based Spells Hit Rate
« on: March 12, 2008, 03:59:12 PM »
Quote from: JCE3000GT on March 12, 2008, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on March 12, 2008, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: JCE3000GT on March 12, 2008, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on March 12, 2008, 12:24:52 PM
They have a hit rate of 100%... but that doesn't mean the spells they cast will succeed (mainly because of resistance). For example, the Slumber Sword's Sleep magic doesn't always work since it is level based.

Are you referring to the spell casted when you use it as an item?  As far as I'm aware the spell casted uses it's normal casting success rates.  In other words The White/Holy spear ALWAYS casts Holy/White because the regular spell does.  Sleep has a high failure rate depending on the monsters ailment weaknesses/strengths. 

Yes. The spell casted is definately having a 100% hit rate. The spell Piggy has a 10% hit rate. The Change Rod makes this work 100% of the time.

 :wtf:  How is that possible?  Is there code somewhere in the ASM that makes the weapons' effects act differently than the normal spell versions?

Dunno, but that's how it behaves. I've never seen the Change Rod fail in ANY of my playthroughs, so it must be skipping some algo check or forcing automatic success. It is worth pointing out that spells that inflict status effects ignore magic evade altogether, and that's how I wrote that in the spell algo thread.

2877
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Weapon Based Spells Hit Rate
« on: March 12, 2008, 03:51:16 PM »
Quote from: JCE3000GT on March 12, 2008, 03:45:24 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on March 12, 2008, 12:24:52 PM
They have a hit rate of 100%... but that doesn't mean the spells they cast will succeed (mainly because of resistance). For example, the Slumber Sword's Sleep magic doesn't always work since it is level based.

Are you referring to the spell casted when you use it as an item?  As far as I'm aware the spell casted uses it's normal casting success rates.  In other words The White/Holy spear ALWAYS casts Holy/White because the regular spell does.  Sleep has a high failure rate depending on the monsters ailment weaknesses/strengths. 

Yes. The spell casted is definately having a 100% hit rate. The spell Piggy has a 10% hit rate. The Change Rod makes this work 100% of the time.

I kinda hate referring the Sleep magic from the Slumber sword, but that's because that spell is mostly driven by the caster's and enemy's level.

2878
Gaming Discussion / Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« on: March 12, 2008, 03:46:04 PM »
Quote from: JCE3000GT on March 12, 2008, 03:41:53 PM
Leviathan won't make the Behemoth counter with Storm like he would with Mist--which is real bad for your party's health.   :laugh:

Behemoth counters with Storm only vs Holy attacks. Otherwise it just counters with a physical attack vs everything else. Mist is not a Holy attack.

2879
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Requesting Info: Weapon Spell-Magic Data
« on: March 12, 2008, 03:40:26 PM »
All the relevent info is provided here in the posted file: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=405.0

Quote from: Edea on March 10, 2008, 05:55:25 PM
Quote
Wow, if you actually calculated those power values before looking them up...that would verify the algorithms you've been using.  That's why spells produced from items are so much weaker than the actual casting, isn't it?  I just thought those bytes were a direct substitution for the spell power.

I know that was edited, but I'll requote anyways. The algo wasn't originally mine, but a derived by stuff BSiron figured out long before I did. The stuff added to that involves hit rate, stuff affecting the hit rate, status inducing spells, and the role of magic defense and magic evade on the spell damage algo.

Quote
Hit rate is solely dependant on the spell being duped (I -believe-). 

Hit rate is always 100%. However, if the spell multiplier for the casted spell is 0, it effectively disables the spell. This is why some disabled spells like the Power Staff's Berserk and the Wooden Hammer's Lit2 can be seen while Reflect is enabled (including all the "dummied" spells in FF2US). Just check out what Blind status does to a spell with a 100% hit rate like Fire1.. it is next closest thing to what you are seeing.

It is the same reason why the Change Rod has a 100% hit rate, even though the original spell has a 10% hit rate.

2880
Gaming Discussion / Re: A Request for Entroper
« on: March 12, 2008, 02:38:45 PM »
Perhaps I might have missed it in the spreadsheets.. but the spell power of the weapon cast spells are not listed. I think Paladin's data should match up with something in the FF4A ROM.

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