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Pinkpuff

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How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« on: September 19, 2016, 04:57:09 AM »
I tried making Yang "neither handed" in Unprecedented Crisis in the hopes that he could equip two rings and still attack with his martial arts bonus. I had to go before I could test attacking but it seems that he can only equip a ring in his left, not his right. Is there a simple fix to this? And does anyone know off hand whether that would break martial arts?

Thanks
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chillyfeez

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2016, 09:20:12 AM »
So, do you want it to be impossible for him to use a claw, or do you simply want it to be possible for him to use two rings (shields)?
Regarding the martial arts bonus... This is something custom, right? I don't think vanilla Yang got any bonus for being empty handed. I kind of remember Grimoire talking about making something like that possible, but I don't remember the mechanical details of the bonus (that is, what gets the bonus - Fight, Kick, other?). My guess is that as it is the code is looking for 00 00 in both hands in order to apply the bonus, but it can probably be changed...
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Swordmaster

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2016, 09:35:21 AM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on September 19, 2016, 04:57:09 AM
And does anyone know off hand whether that would break martial arts?

"off hand"?  lol, was that on purpose?

chillyfeez, I think Pinkpuff just wants Yang to be able to equip two rings (shields) without offensive penalty.
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chillyfeez

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2016, 10:14:58 AM »
Right, but my question is what's the penalty?
That there is a penalty for Yang holding weapons, or a bonus for not holding weapons as the case may be, must be something that was custom written. In vanilla FFIV for SNES no such bonus or penalty exists (AFAIK).

I'm sure, by the way, that there is something in the assembly that prevents double shields from being equipped on anybody, but that's nothing to worry about. I eat rules like that for breakfast.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2016, 04:41:16 PM »
I didn't make any custom code or anything; I just wasn't sure if there would be a penalty to his attacking or not if he was wearing two rings because I didn't have a chance to try it this morning. If there's no penalty by default, then that answers that question. So I guess all I would be interested in then is how easy it would be to make it so someone with two "off-hands" can wear two off-hand items.

Essentially, I'm trying to give Yang a little more of a competitive edge with respect to the other fighters. He has speed and is pretty durable even without being able to use heavy armor, but I'm not sure it makes up for his lack of ability to take advantage of races and elemental weaknesses like Kain and Cid. I hoped it would be as simple as setting his handedness to "neither" and giving him ring equips so he can at least get some super stat buffs and still be able to attack.

I didn't realize that martial arts wasn't a thing in this game. I thought Yang had something special that gave him good unarmed damage; I guess not? In any case nothing special has been hacked in regarding that.

If it's complicated, don't worry about it, you have your own hacks to focus on. I can find another way to tweak him.
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Swordmaster

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2016, 07:45:00 PM »
I'm pretty sure Yang's offense is unique.  If you give to Edge Yang's stats and both at level 99 and equip him with claws (or leave his hands unequipped), I am fairly certain Yang will far out-damage Edge.  ...I think.  Am I wrong about that?

Pinkpuff:  Can't you just make two Yang-only weapons, using ring icons, that give you what you want?  Or is there no way to give a weapon shield-like stats?  (I only have a few XP using your wizardly invention, FF4kster)
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chillyfeez

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2016, 08:55:10 PM »
 Thought Yang's high attack power simply came from having massively high strength, but hey, what do I know? Those are admittedly the details I don't generally spend much time examining.

Something to consider, Pinkpuff: if rings are defensive items, they won't give Yang any attack bonuses (outside of collateral multipliers from extra Str and Ago). They would only give defensive bonuses (protection against fire, or against zombie attacks, or whatever).
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Pinkpuff

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 04:14:37 AM »
Quote from: chillyfeez on September 19, 2016, 08:55:10 PM
Thought Yang's high attack power simply came from having massively high strength, but hey, what do I know? Those are admittedly the details I don't generally spend much time examining.

Well, we can try it and find out ^_^

Quote from: chillyfeez on September 19, 2016, 08:55:10 PM
Something to consider, Pinkpuff: if rings are defensive items, they won't give Yang any attack bonuses (outside of collateral multipliers from extra Str and Ago). They would only give defensive bonuses (protection against fire, or against zombie attacks, or whatever).

Exactly; the idea with this solution is to accept that Yang can't get those elemental/racial attack bonuses and instead give him something else more unique. Being able to wear two stat sticks essentially.

Quote from: Swordmaster on September 19, 2016, 07:45:00 PM
Pinkpuff:  Can't you just make two Yang-only weapons, using ring icons, that give you what you want?  Or is there no way to give a weapon shield-like stats?  (I only have a few XP using your wizardly invention, FF4kster)

Well this is a tweak being made to an already heavily hacked game which currently contains no claws and a bunch of rings. I was hoping to use existing elements to improve his endgame viability. Not that he's not a viable character at all, it just seems like the other pure fighters do what he does a little better overall. Any claws I make would remove other (cooler) weapons, and any weapons I make that look like rings would also not only be replacing other weapons but would cause confusion when the player tries to put them on other ring-wearing characters, so I'd prefer not to go down that route if I don't have to.
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Bahamut ZERO

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 03:14:19 PM »
I don't think you have to worry about any penalties to Yang's attack power with the setup you're going for unless you straight up give his rings - stats to his strength.

Also, he does have a sort of bonus for his job, as his weapons never actually effect his attack power. If I remember right, weapon power is ignored entirely for him and him alone. :)
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Pinkpuff

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Re: How to get D-handed people to use shields?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 04:30:49 AM »
Perhaps; but in any case, I think we kind of got distracted by why I wanted it and forgot about the main question, how to accomplish it.

Essentially, all I'm looking for is D-handers to be able to use two off-hand items, like shields. If making that one change doesn't cause Fight (actually Yang has a renamed Aim) to break, then that should be all that's needed.
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