Topic: Developing FF4kster: a comprehensive editor for FF4

[LordGarmonde]

Hey everyone - Nice detective work!

I'm sorry I haven't been able to contribute much lately - life got in the way - and I'm just too slow: by the time I sit down and work through the editor it's already been hit back and forth like a tennis ball and figured it out.

I'm hoping to have some time today - there's over a foot of snow outside with a temp of about 8 degrees - so computer bound it is. 

One thing I was going to mention Wed. night was Agart's weapon and armor shops being tile-swapped versions of Fabul's lobby - but when I went to write it you had the new version out which worked fine - that being another case of wayward FF4 programming, I'm sure. Speaking of I'm totally with Grimoire following up on increase byte:

What a mess Square...

I'll give it some thought but running into this sort of thing before I'm inclined to think there's no easy way to correct for that; Off the top of my head it makes me think of the kind of problems you run into trying to separate two arrays that have been added together: it's fine if you know how the individual data should behave but the way it would seem I don't think there's a pattern to exploit - and even if so hardly the easiest fix

- I'll probably take a look anyway but I wouldn't complain with a cap of 31 though - in fact had I not read it here I wouldn't even know about it

Hopefully I'll be back to post later with something more tangible to contribute but I couldn't not tip my hat at the great efforts as of late :)

...also, I had to relay to Pinkpuff that yesterday I ran into a situation where I had an unrefreshed copy of the forum up on one monitor next to a current one and saw the two different versions of your avatar...I was just going to relay that as a funny double take moment but then I looked this morning and you changed it again! I'm starting to think that I might be shorting out...Princess Momo overload...lol 

[Pinkpuff]

...also, I had to relay to Pinkpuff that yesterday I ran into a situation where I had an unrefreshed copy of the forum up on one monitor next to a current one and saw the two different versions of your avatar...I was just going to relay that as a funny double take moment but then I looked this morning and you changed it again! I'm starting to think that I might be shorting out...Princess Momo overload...lol 

  You recognize Minky Momo?? That's awesome, I usually have to explain to people who she is. Years ago I couldn't find any subtitled episodes so some friends and I got together and started translating it. We didn't get very far though. We all ended up becoming busy with other things and such. I might come back to it some day but we'll see...

Anyway, back to the map editor! I've got a cursor working now. It even scrolls and everything. My plan is to have it so that the controls are:

• Arrows: Move cursor; if it reaches the edge of the visible portion of the map, it will scroll the map if possible.
• Shifted Arrows: Expand cursor, increasing highlighted rectangular area
• Tab: Switch to tile selector (use arrows to select a tile, tab again to go back to map editor)
• Backspace: Change selected tile to currently highlighted tile (tile in top left corner if a rectangle is highlighted)
• Enter: Fill highlighted rectangular area with selected tile
• Space: Floodfill highlighted area and entire contiguous region of same tile

And if I'm particularly ambitious I'd like to also put a visible clipboard there on the right side and add the following controls:

• C or Delete: Copy highlighted area to clipboard
• V or Insert: Paste clipboard data into map, lining up top left corner of clipboard data with top left corner of highlighted rectangle

[LordGarmonde]

In looking around for a table with the experience data (knowing I had seen it before) I came across this:

http://rb.thundaga.com/chars/lvup_data.txt - That had a note:

"Byte 3: Magic Point Gain; also, around the 50th level gained or
so (varies for each character), the ROM begins adding $20, $40,
or ($20 + $40) for each subsequent entry for this byte.  This
may have something to do with how your HP/MP/Exp needed data is
updated after you pass level 70."

- that's what JCE3000GT pointed out a few posts back - and as Pinkpuff was saying there may be some kind of overwrite issue: I would say absolutely - you get just enough room for each character for the levels they need - no wiggle room. That and the well caught character/actor pointer discrepancy (OMG Square...) definitely throws a wrench into keeping it easy to edit.

- Also here's a link to the level up data for convenience/reference:  http://rb.thundaga.com/chars/ff4chrlvup.txt

[LordGarmonde]

You recognize Minky Momo?? That's awesome, I usually have to explain to people who she is. Years ago I couldn't find any subtitled episodes so some friends and I got together and started translating it. We didn't get very far though. We all ended up becoming busy with other things and such. I might come back to it some day but we'll see...

Yeah, that is a little scary...I'd also have accepted  - I had a friend many years ago named Morgan and who had a nickname of Momo - I went looking for what it could be to see if it was a good nickname or a bad one - because one person had told me about it but no one I knew used it. Anyway, Minky Momo came up as what I thought would be the answer...didn't know what to make of it and I was wrong anyway: it was from her little sister not saying "Morgan" as a baby just "Mo-Mo" - However, having read up on it and having seen so many pictures I recognized the picture right away when I first saw it here. It sounded very interesting, so I kept reading about it - and it stuck; that was back from 2006...but there it is. Also translation, damn that's hardcore - I just wouldn't have that in me - but that's some passion you're talking about - the best I'd ever done on that is guessing at the text between equations in German books & papers. lol :P

- But to get back, controls sound good - I mentally ran through them and it seems like a good scheme. Backspace threw me for a second but it made sense when I was imagining "Enter" and "Space" - so I'm happy with it

- The fact that you even thought to attack the map editor and are doing so now with such vigor is quite the feat: to quote April O'Neal: "You have my support!"

[Grimoire LD]

Hey LordGarmonde! Yeah, I'm facing basically the same issue you are as well, so I am also in front of the computer all day. I'm going to try and revisit some of my earlier incomplete work (before I understood ASM by any stretch) and see what I missed and what can be changed.

That sounds like an ideal way to handle the map editor PinkPuff!

There is one thing in there I don't fully grasp though...

"Shifted Arrows: Expand cursor, increasing highlighted rectangular area" what are "shifted arrows"? Also is this saying that you will be able to copy/paste larger than single tiles? If so that sounds fantastic!

[Grimoire LD]

Oh yes, I was looking through the information I had located in the past and I found... well a lot. With this information you could turn the "Tools" section into a slightly editable section rather than just change the price of items.

I know how to decide which stat to raise with the Apples and Soma Drop for instance, which some modders might find useful. And while I know the information for how to change the events on Magazine/Exit/Sight items, I think that can be dealt with much easier by just disallowing people to use those spells outside of battle (as you've added to the editor.)

Now the Stat-Boosting Items are very simple affairs.

These are very simple instructions and their use can be easily altered.

Unheadered Rom

Golden Apple
Raise Max HP by 100 if more than 9999then make it 9999


Max HP - (Read Byte/Write Byte) - ROM 0xA734
100 (2 Byte Value) - ROM 0xA73A

Silver Apple
Raise Max HP by 50 if more than 9999 then Make it 9999

Max HP - (Read Byte/Write Byte) - ROM 0xA74E
50 (2 Byte Value) - ROM 0xA754

(Shared by both Golden and Silver Apple)
9999 (2 Byte Value) - ROM 0xA73D
Make it 9999 (2 Byte Value) - ROM 0xA742

Soma Drop
Raise Max MP by 10 if more than 999 then Make it 999

Max MP (Read Byte/Write Byte) - ROM 0xA75A
10 (2 Byte Value) - ROM 0xA761
999 (2 Byte Value) - ROM 0xA764
Make it 999 - ROM 0xA769

And there you go! That's all you would need to say... raise any of the primary stats. and with the enforced limits you can easily make them cap at 99. You could even raise your critical Hit Rate with these.

[LordGarmonde]

Nice finds Grimoire - not a bad way to spend time while stuck at the computer. 

It is funny to go back and look at stuff like that - you can get a lot of classic "Oh, man what was I thinking?"  moments to be had. 

One I just looked into a bit is a (extremely minor) problem with Jinn vs Choco as they are called visually. In the Medicine List the visual for Fire-Bomb is listed as Choco and that works correctly and looking at the editor from a few versions back, same story. I switched it to Jinn and it had the same visual effect of the Crystal when used on Zeromus - and indeed looking at the list the Crystal has a visual listed of Jinn. I can see this issue has come up before:

Here are the Pointer 2 Effects...
...
Pointer 2: 16 Indra
Pointer 2: 17 Stone/?Jinn?/Ray/Beak/Petrify/Hug/
Pointer 2: 18 Titan
...

And now Sequences...

00 - Exit/Drain/Psych/Shiva/Chocobo/Imp/Odin/Leviathan/Blk.Hole/Absorb/Vampire/(Enemy)Odin(Pointer 2 does the work in those cases, or has no graphic, those that have no graphic will be omitted)
...
35 - Hold/Entangle
36 - White/Nuke/(Spell)Jinn/MegaNuke
37 - Quake/Titan/(Enemy)Quake
...
52 - Needle
53 - (Summon)Jinn
54 - Fire/Blaze
...

I guess I just wanted to point out how that carries over for calling the visuals from items - and then to ask is there then no specific Choco call - i.e. can I not have a battle item that just calls a chocobo - weird, but not overly important so this can get moved to the other thread if that seems appropriate - thoughts?

[Grimoire LD]

Unfortunately FFIV is Far too exact with Summons and trying to use Items to call Summon animations does not work from the first. There is an item to call Summons randomly (which I have labelled in my notes thread) if you Really wanted to you could change every instance there to Summon Chocobo. The reason Items can't summon actual Summons is because the important "make the party disappear" is not innately in the item data, but is only used in the separate routine for the Grimoire.

Great find though with the True purpose of those bizarre animations that I was stumped on when I compiled the effect list, but you pretty much cracked it!

[LordGarmonde]

I'm glad that was able to help. It's good that's tied up; but with FFIV there's no shortage of these kinds of anomalies. 

Also I missed earlier that you updated the algorithm thread as well - NICE! 

[JCE3000GT]

The reason why I bring up the MP increase byte issue is I'm about to release a patch (and utility) for FF2us/FF4 that alters the max levels of stats, HP, MP and physical damage.  Using this a modder can enable MP to go beyond the 999 cap.  Thus 31 may not be enough if they've increased the max beyond 999. 

YouTube from last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCkZuQUV0ME&sns=em

[Grimoire LD]

Oh? Did you get those graphical issues figured out then JCE3000GT? I recall that being the main sticking point on why it couldn't really look right before.

[JCE3000GT]

Oh? Did you get those graphical issues figured out then JCE3000GT? I recall that being the main sticking point on why it couldn't really look right before.

Not for damage over 9999 no, but I'm not an assembly guru.  I didn't attempt to do the other limits because of the menu limitations.  :(

[Grimoire LD]

Ah, yeah those are all reasonable thoughts. Ah well, looking forward to the release anyhow!

[LordGarmonde]

Agreed! 

[Pinkpuff]

- The fact that you even thought to attack the map editor and are doing so now with such vigor is quite the feat: to quote April O'Neal: "You have my support!"

Oh wow I actually love that game, haha! You're IN MY MIND!!

"Shifted Arrows: Expand cursor, increasing highlighted rectangular area" what are "shifted arrows"? Also is this saying that you will be able to copy/paste larger than single tiles? If so that sounds fantastic!

Shifted arrows are the arrow keys while holding shift... ^_^;
And yes you will be able to copy/paste/select/etc a rectangular area of tiles, not necessarily just one.

That is unless something unforeseen happens that causes things to go horribly horribly wrong... which... you never know with this game.

The reason why I bring up the MP increase byte issue is I'm about to release a patch (and utility) for FF2us/FF4 that alters the max levels of stats, HP, MP and physical damage.  Using this a modder can enable MP to go beyond the 999 cap.  Thus 31 may not be enough if they've increased the max beyond 999. 

Oh yeah don't get me wrong I'll probably go back and fix it properly "at some point", the 31 thing is just a quick patchwork kludge I can do in 0 seconds.