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Author Topic: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status  (Read 2064 times)

13375K31C43R

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Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« on: March 22, 2016, 12:33:27 PM »
I received a message from TheNattak who informed me of a possible bug. Vanish status is supposed to be cleared whenever an entity is targeted by a spell, but for some reason this does not include spells that result from rod usage (at least in some cases). For example, the Fire Rod's in-game description specifically states that its effect is to cast Fire 2 when used as an item. At first I found it a bit odd that this doesn't cause Vanish status to be removed, but it does occur to me that maybe the spell is deliberately treated as an item effect to avoid removing Vanish. But I want to get the public's opinion before I take any further action on this.
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"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

assassin

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 10:26:53 PM »
i lean towards thinking it's intentional.  read the 4 posts starting here (which also discuss a couple other aspects of Item magic):
http://mnrogar.slickproductions.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=3413#p3413
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TheNattak

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2016, 03:25:38 PM »
Intentional or not, it's nonsensical in the sense that, yes, it's an item, but it's an item that casts a spell, and a spell removes Clear status.
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assassin

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2016, 05:54:59 PM »
spells also lock onto Clear status; that is, a guaranteed hit unless there's some inherent protection for the target (e.g. Instant Death).  yet Item magic is part of a command that doesn't get a 100% hit rate from Clear.

so are you also in favor of this no longer being the case for Item magic?  because having an attack whose hit rate is unaffected by Vanish (i.e. it doesn't lock onto vanished targets) but that still auto-removes the status would be utter gibberish -- trying to have it both ways.

as it is now, the game is consistent in that regard:
Quote from: me
item usage sets bit 7 of $B3 (aka "Ignore Clear"), which is checked both in the "Chance to hit" routine, and in the "Determine statuses that will be set/removed when attack hits" routine. C2/220D and C2/4406, respectively.

as you said, Clear doesn't help them hit, and it also won't be removed when they do hit. that's consistency, no? it's keeping Clear out of the equation.
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Imzogelmo

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 12:05:17 AM »
In my opinion, this is not a bug, but is a clearly (pun intended) intentional rule; i.e. items don't affect vanish, even if they are casting spells as their payload. It's a nice way to get around the usual restrictions/limitations of Vanish, imho.  As evidence I cite the fact that they even created a special bit to point out that they are overriding the otherwise normal Vanish removal.

That being said, if you wanted to create a patch to change the behavior, go for it. Just don't call it a bug fix.
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Xenovant

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2016, 09:40:38 AM »
If he hasn't released the patch already, I doubt he will ever do it. He is like a SMG, but firing fixes instead of bullets  :happy:
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assassin

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2016, 09:59:54 AM »
looks like Seibaby (who totally doesn't post here) tackled it:
http://www.ff6hacking.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=3214

and in my day, SMG disavowed guns, only firing wooden stakes and witty barbs!
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Xenovant

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2016, 10:27:51 AM »
Quote from: assassin on May 11, 2016, 09:59:54 AM
and in my day, SMG disavowed guns, only firing wooden stakes and witty barbs!

...and I thought I was old... :P  :happy:
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assassin

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 11:06:36 AM »
hey, i'm in the perfect age range.  everybody five or more years younger than me is naive and impulsive, and everybody 5+ years older is cranky and desiccated.

of course, if our parents (or nephews and nieces?) had accounts here, they'd correct us both on the one true SMG:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002091/?ref_=nv_sr_2
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Xenovant

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2016, 01:43:13 PM »
Quote from: assassin on May 11, 2016, 11:06:36 AM
hey, i'm in the perfect age range.  everybody five or more years younger than me is naive and impulsive, and everybody 5+ years older is cranky and desiccated.

Good answer xD


Quote from: assassin on May 11, 2016, 11:06:36 AM
of course, if our parents (or nephews and nieces?) had accounts here, they'd correct us both on the one true SMG:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002091/?ref_=nv_sr_2

Or they could tell us about Peter North (1.631 "movies"), but then the conversation would become... ermmm... awkward xDD
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assassin

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2016, 03:42:15 PM »
maybe replying, "I preferred his earlier work." would make things less awkward?
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Xenovant

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 07:03:32 PM »
Or you could try to redirect the conversation:

-"Talking about porn... Did you know that the japanese have a thing for tentacles?"

Then, there are 2 possible answers:

1.The bad one: -"You are sick."
   :blush: *You'll have to hide your head in a hole, like an ostrich, for the rest of your life.*

2.The good one: -"Really? I didn't know that."
  -"Yes, there is even an easter egg about it in FF6, go and play it."
   :childish: *You get out of the situation and they start to play this game* :P
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13375K31C43R

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2016, 10:05:07 PM »
I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with rods and spells? :offtopic:
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magitek

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 10:24:15 PM »
Quote from: 13375K31C43R on May 11, 2016, 10:05:07 PM
I'm sorry, what does any of this have to do with rods and spells? :offtopic:

I've said all I have to say on this topic here (and fixed the bug). :P

But I'll repeat myself:

I believe it was Square's intention to explicitly make Rods ignore Mblock and Rflect so that you don't feel bamboozled by having the spell thrown back in your face, or fizzle, now that you sacrificed a piece of equipment for it.

I believe the "ignore damage modification" property was inherited from the Item code either due to laziness, forgetfulness, carelessness, apathy or stupidity. It makes no sense to me that spells cast via items should inherit Item properties, no matter Square's intentions. I believe ignoring damage modification should only be used on things doing fixed damage like Potions and Runic absorption or Blow Fish, but it's misused all over the code so I can only think Square forgot about their own "ignores defense" bit.
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Xenovant

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Re: Rod spells do not remove Vanish status
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2016, 10:41:27 PM »
??

He was talking about our nonsense...  :happy:
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