Library of the Ancients => Final Fantasy IV Research & Development => Topic started by: Deathlike2 on November 16, 2012, 05:16:28 PM
Title: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 16, 2012, 05:16:28 PM
New log starting here regarding the PSP port of FF4... though I will direct new research to the TAY research thread when I even get there.
Kain's Jump does trigger the Mist Dragon's counterattack... that was not there before.
Magic Arrow shockingly looks like magic arrows (it does look a lot like swapped sprites from the Holy spell).
It is possible to fight a random battle BEFORE stepping onto an event tile. I fought random monsters before fighting Octomammoth.
Back row seems to work as expected... though the monsters fight "slower" or "weaker" than I remember.
:edit: Toads seem to attack with the "Rod" sound, which is odd.
The Secret Waterfall area doesn't have the Elixir... although I forget if that was changed in the GBA port.
Lots of things are relatively faithful... like back rows, Flan evasion (from the WSC/GBA changes), racial modifiers (well, at least with weapons like the IceRod).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 16, 2012, 11:50:35 PM
I swear there is something going on... where Tellah manages to find a way to hit that spoony bard 100% of the time.
Yang's mini-battle must have a special script for the monsters (it just them to do nothing for this specific battle).
I've never seen monster magic miss on their own kind.. and yet I saw the Needler type monsters missed hitting themselves once...
Also, Salve seems to work under saner principles... it factors in the number of targets... finally.
:edit: Porom's Cry is probably literally a multitargeted Confuse... which could easily be overpowered early on.
There's something really wrong with the monsters. It's almost as if they are affected by some sort of back row bug or majorly neutered accuracy. I don't think I've ever seen the power of peninsula monsters miss hitting the twins, but then here we are seeing that occur fairly frequently. Also, I've seen monsters miss when they target themselves.... HOW THE HELL DOES THAT HAPPEN? I wonder if the code for the monster spell magic of Needle has changed... it's magical accuracy last I recall is 100%, unless DK Cecil somehow had magic evade (would take forever to achieve that)...
I also wonder if evasion and magic evasion are actually being applied now... but the numbers don't add up as far as I can tell.. monsters really seem to be neutered.
:edit: I guess it is an improvement when most of the effects that go on is FF6-ish... you see the (monster magic) attack happen, minus the shield to determine if the attack succeeds or not.
Bows+Arrows don't seem to be bugged anymore... a shocker!
:edit: Had a busy day... arg.
Anyways, I forgot to mention that the "Pig" dancer in Mysidia seems to play a different tune than the original Calcobrena dance...
Also, Aim does critical hits... it did not do them before. Then again, I've noticed Jump do that (though, not in my run, but in other vids.. I'll have to verify/confirm that.
It is possible to dish a critical hit and miss at the same time.
The Cait Sith's Blaster seems to do 100% kills (death status) instead of the 50-50 Paralysis and Death... I wonder if that was modified.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 18, 2012, 12:15:00 AM
Alright, some interesting stuff...
Since FF4A (GBA), the monster's max MP has be changed to HP/8. This particular change helps out Tellah a lot, especially if you use his magic heavily.
One of the changes in the PSP version that I've noticed is that monsters actually consume MP now. However, that doesn't change the fact that they will continue to cast spells that they don't have the MP for, which has been a feature from the beginning. This info is truly worthy of note.
Also, monsters have been able to cast regular magic spells on each other and actually miss their target. This isn't exactly new, except that magic like the Soul's Fire normally has a 100% hit rate... so there are 3 possible outcomes that are happening...
1) Monster magic evasion has been "added". I doubt this.
2) Charm status must evoke some sort of hit rate neutering. In some games, hitting one's self does less damage or is less effective. However, I've seen damage not applied to other monsters... and get the Soul's Fire keeps healing themselves w/o issue (the Fire never seems to miss at all).
3) Someone really blatantly fucked this up and neutered monsters in general... even more than what the GBA port has done to them...
:edit: I forgot to mention of the Raise (Life) spell (Phoenix Down probably use the same formula). It seems to operate on a different system now... but I can't quite figure it out. AFAIK, it looks to scale with the character's maxHP or something (perhaps level) with Stamina... rather than a straight Stamina*5 base.
:edit: Never mind... it's mostly the regular formula, except with some randomization on it.
Out of battle: Stamina * 5 In battle: (Stamina * 4 + 1, Stamina * 5) Translation: it is always between Stamina * 4 + 1, Stamina * 5 The math isn't actually perfect because of the RNG and whatever is manipulated, but that's how it works out to be.
Why bother randomizing this?
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 18, 2012, 11:24:49 PM
With regards to Protect/Shell, I don't think those have changed. I've used Protect the same way I did in fighting Yang, so I'm pretty convinced it's the same. However, I have no idea if that is changed in TAY. I'll probably find out at some point.
With regards to Haste/Slow, it works the same way it did in the original. I used the classic Bio + speed spell test... so the numbers add up. I also wonder if it has changed in TAY. My recommendations at the moment are the same with Haste/Slow... Slow is far more useful than Haste and must be doubled up to get the full effect.
A reminder on how Haste/Slow works for those that read this and don't know: Sap causes 60 damage when left unchecked. Haste #1 causes Sap to damage only 48 -> 20% speed boost Haste #2 causes Sap to damage only 44 -> 25% speed boost Slow #1 causes Sap to extend damage to 90 -> 50% speed loss Slow #2 causes Sap to extend damage to 120 -> 100% speed loss
100% speed loss doesn't mean you stop moving... it just means you are 1/2 as fast in the normal state. 50% speed loss means you are only 3/4 as fast as you were normally.
Haste will only speed you up a little (and not that much when you do apply it twice), but Slow will slow you down quite a bit. So... use Slow since it is cheaper to apply.
:edit: Brace (aka Gird, Yang command that casts Protect) seems to work all the time, I could be wrong. It is not affected by Reflect, which is good.
The Crystal Room in the Lodestone Cavern does change the tune permanently to the regular Crystal Room sound... normally room music is reset to its default when you revisit (event stuff changes the music in the room).
The Succubus (the Vampire Girl) is amusing as a "floating pig"... it's hard to imagine how you would correctly fix the graphics for that....
Strangely, the "magnetic effect" occurs occasionally after a battle... I don't know why or what causes that.
I guess it's nice that a combo attack, such as the Dark Elf's tri-elemental attack does actually wait show the damage and update accordingly before the next spell in the sequence. It does change how the split damage is applied (especially when Tellah, then Cid dies in the sequence).
Headband vs Wizard Hat on Cecil usually is a difficult decision.. but considering Cecil is the backup healer and needs all the defense and magic defense he can get (from the vampire bats especially)... the choice is simple... unless you really need that extra strength to improve his hit rate with the bow (it's not that necessary IMO).
:edit: I've killed way too many dolls to my liking... and yet I get zero Decoy drops. What the hell is wrong with the drops? Has the drop rate decreased or do they like... not give any items at all? In all the versions prior to the PSP, they were more than happy to give me another Decoy... 300+ doll kills and not one Decoy. Hmmm....
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 19, 2012, 12:40:07 PM
I honestly wonder if the Beastiary is actually connected to the game data... because it doesn't feel like I'm getting a drop worth a damn. I should look into this further but I think the game drops are different from the original and GBA versions. Killed 100+ Evil Dolls... not one Decoy drop.
Tower of Babil floor numbering seems different.. as the underground base starts at Floor B13 instead of Floor 1 from the underground side. I guess that matters if there was an elevator installed.
The treasure chests for the Ice Lance and Icebrand are swapped. The monsters attached to them are the ones you would expect from the treasure though (Icebrand has Chimeras summoned, Ice Lance has Stone Golems summoned).
Why the hell do you need to rename the Blizzard Spear/Lance to the Ice Lance? Is Blizzard too hard a word to comprehend?
:edit: Same treasure switch with the Ice Shield+Armor...
Dancing Dagger doesn't really feel the same in its look... I'm not a fan of the invisible dagger despite all the "swipes" it seems to make.
The Fire/Ice armor weakness seems to have been reinstated. I don't know why. This weakness I am talking about is the one where Fire+Ice armor provide resistance to one, and weakness to the other. If you have followed what I've said about weapon elementals in a different thread, despite the fact that the Protect Ring provides resistance to both Fire and Ice (and Lightning), the character is PHYSICALLY weak to Fire and Ice. When attacked (usually via Charm) with the Icebrand and/or Flame Sword, they will do a lot more damage than usual.
Jump does do critical hits, as noted before.
It is interesting that maxHP based damage attack's like the Flamebeast's Fire or whatever and the Chimera's Ice or whatever is now a combo of the original game and the GBA ports. The original game allowed those attacks to miss, as it factored the Spell Multiplier (based on the monster's Magic stat) against the Magic Evasion Multiplier. The GBA port forced those attacks to work, but more importantly reworked the Absorb property's healing.
The PSP port allows for the attacks to miss, but also retain the absorb damage property. TBH, I think the damage absorption has been reworked in the sense that it doesn't factor in magic evasion as I've explained in earlier posts that I've seen confused Spirits/Souls miss hitting zombies with Fire (haven't seen it vs skeletons, but I'm sure it would happen just the same), never seem to miss vs themselves. It's worth some exploration. Magic evasion is the reason why the Cursed Ring was made to cripple it (the Hero Shield kinda does the opposite to some degree).
I'm starting to find the real bug with the system is simply the drop probability, unless there's truly something wrong with the drop slots themselves.
Note: It's fine if people want to contribute to this thread, as long as it is related to the info gathering being done.
:edit: Dr. Lugae and his robot give EXP after battle.. which didn't happen originally. The EXP gain was normally limited to his weird form battle.
The platform that Rubicante uses to warp, doesn't seem to allow for further progression upwards... not that there were supposed to be anything worth looking at back there.
I swear it's either the emulator or US version ISO I'm using that refuses to play the Calcobrena music when the game calls for it... comparing to the Youtube vids of the game. I wonder...
:edit: Finally good to see Edge and the back row bit working... finally. The Boomerang allows whatever secondary weapon he equips to ignore row. Good stuff.
Dwarf Axe is back row compatible, which is a little known fact. Then again, the fact that it is thrown should be the dead giveaway... Surprisingly, it is not classified as a Wind elemental based weapon like Spears/Lances and Bow+Arrow attacks.
Strange related fact (I should test this for this version). Most lances/spears for Kain are wind elemental... the exceptions are Abel's Lance and the Blood Lance. One would think that is some sort of oversight, given how data was classified in the original...
Putting Charm/Confuse status on the Calco part of the dolls is useless, just like putting it on the Baron Generals on the storming of Fabul. There is literally no Charm script to be run, thus they continue to do what they normally do.
Maybe there is a bug in the game related to my settings. I use an Active ATB+Battle Speed of 1 (leaving message speed at the default of 3). Outside of known drops, I don't think I've really gotten any randomized drops... ever.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 20, 2012, 02:12:24 AM
I swear, the drop rate is more like .5% or .05% instead of 5%.
I love how the in-game beastiary is a lie. The Alraune (Tarantula) monster is known and listed to be weak vs "Throw" (or Wind) elemental. The problem is, it isn't in this port. Go figure.
Also, I would like to be clear on the monster attacks... the burning Blaze attack and the icy Cold Blast attacks are what I was referencing.
Some related thoughts... when grinding and using the Poison on Summoner type monster trick, you will realize as the faster you are (through natural levels), the faster the poison is. It shouldn't surprise you that the poison dishes damage at longer intervals while you are slower than the monster... and conversely it is usually harder to kill the monster at lower levels. Eventually you will grind at a slower pace when using Poison.... (of course, the EXP to the next level increases, but the EXP gains start to decrease, making these grinding trips longer).
I find the coloring scheme for status effects in this game to be... bad. Stop is easily visible (and obviously more powerful) than Sleep or Paralysis (both happen to be inferior by comparison). I liked FF6's glowing to "just work" by comparison (FF5's primitive blinking version is... not optimal).
Finally, the PSP brings out the unused sound that was hidden in the original game. Great, if only the pron was legible for us.
:edit: If you ever get to see Rubicante's mini-speech before he dies (I forget the condition, he has to have like either under 100HP or 1000HP left to trigger), he hints he'll be back (of course, he does... and again for no reason).
At this point, I've kinda conceded that the programmers of the port will fix the fact that despite him being the Element of Fire (in Edge's lone battle), the "Cloak of Flames" must be neutralizing his Fire Absorb for the Ice Absorb. It's kinda retarded when you think of it.
I don't know why Edge's Flame Ninjutsu is crap vs Rubicante. It's the weakest of all the versions AFAIK... especially since the lone Rubicante battle has him absorbing it. Then again, it doesn't explain why Tellah's Bio vs Golbez has a 2x spell multiplier, yet his -aga spells are only 1x.
Of course, we know Edge is supposed to lose the lone Rubicante battle, but why does the "the party has fallen" message come up? This is a scripted loss after all... lame QA oversight.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on November 20, 2012, 12:57:32 PM
Tower of Babil floor numbering seems different.. as the underground base starts at Floor B13 instead of Floor 1 from the underground side. I guess that matters if there was an elevator installed.
The original numbering didn't really make much sense. I can see starting at F1 in the underworld, but the overworld tower floors being labeled "BFx" always bothered me, even though you were descending the tower.
Why the hell do you need to rename the Blizzard Spear/Lance to the Ice Lance? Is Blizzard too hard a word to comprehend?
Didn't the GBA version do this too? It's a more accurate translation. Whether or not that's a good thing is a matter of opinion, but you can't really fault them for it. (PSP uses the DS translation for things' names, but they were too lazy to adapt the script, which is the only part of the DS version that was worth anything.)
---
What I'm gathering from this thread is that there's still no definitive version of this game. Every single port/remake has to break something. It's not like the SNES original was stellar or anything, just don't break what did work in it and fix what didn't. (This version could never be definitive with those hideous visuals anyway.)
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 20, 2012, 02:06:41 PM
Tower of Babil floor numbering seems different.. as the underground base starts at Floor B13 instead of Floor 1 from the underground side. I guess that matters if there was an elevator installed.
The original numbering didn't really make much sense. I can see starting at F1 in the underworld, but the overworld tower floors being labeled "BFx" always bothered me, even though you were descending the tower.
Well, it did kinda make sense to me. It doesn't matter. It makes more sense to start the very basement as Floor 1, and the top passage being Floor 13. At least then, it makes sense to me...
Why the hell do you need to rename the Blizzard Spear/Lance to the Ice Lance? Is Blizzard too hard a word to comprehend?
Didn't the GBA version do this too? It's a more accurate translation. Whether or not that's a good thing is a matter of opinion, but you can't really fault them for it. (PSP uses the DS translation for things' names, but they were too lazy to adapt the script, which is the only part of the DS version that was worth anything.)
I had forgotten about it and checked. Oh well. Accurate translation vs "it isn't that much different" is a matter of "FF" consistancy. IIRC, FF5 had the Flametongue and Icebrand... so I don't see why the "ice" version of the spear can't be Blizzard. Although no Thunder-based spear was in the original, we recognize FF5's Trident to be Lightning based (and strangely Water based in FF6, due to balance/weakness vs the Magitek Factory).
Quote
What I'm gathering from this thread is that there's still no definitive version of this game. Every single port/remake has to break something. It's not like the SNES original was stellar or anything, just don't break what did work in it and fix what didn't. (This version could never be definitive with those hideous visuals anyway.)
I hate to disagree, but the visuals are inconsistent at worst with certain strangeness, but I like the graphics updates for the most part. Some stuff we could obviously do away with, but there are some little things that are very appreciable that have been noted (like the maxHP attacks missing, and Brace not being reflectable).
Some notes:
I don't know why the hell the Sylph's Cave uses the empty castle music (Eblan and Damacyan).
The floor of the Sylph's house can fight monsters now... it wasn't in the original or the GBA version, not that is affects me too much.
Malboros used to be hell.... but considering the info we have these days, they are more tame than a pussycat.
They seemed to have swapped the Avenger and Moonring (Fullmoon) treasures... not that it affected me too much there.
:edit: I love how they keep the "Killer Bow" marketing. Yea... good luck with that.
I need to double check this, but the non-summoned Arachne does not seem to have the Wind elemental weakness. I have no idea why that is...
:edit: There has to be some botched code with regards to drops or an concerted effort to eliminate drops from summoned monsters..
I realized Asura is more of a pushover than I originally thought. If you bought the Aegis Shields and kept the Rune Armlets (the Diamond Armlet is good for Edge if you ONLY need lightning protection from those evil Thunder Dragons), you are already ahead of the game. Then again, the Magemasher is epic.
If anyone remembers what I wrote about flying summoned monsters that don't have Quake immunity... well, it has resurfaced in this port. Surprisingly the summoned Arachne retains its weakness to Wind elemental... it still gets hurt by Quake. DID ANYONE AT SQUARE (and their port makers) EVEN READ THE NOTES I WRITE??? I think not.
Testing this some more.. I think it's more of a different "behavior" of sorts (could be classified as a bug). All monster that have the "flying" property seem to have Quake immunity (tested against the Summoned Hellflapper - it's still immune). However, the Arachne is well known to be weak vs Wind and a property of that is having Quake immunity. This particular behavior has changed for some reason in terms of consistency. The dead giveaway was when I charmed/confused the Arachne, its own Quake-like attack hurt itself.
A lesser well known monster like the Electric Fish (Baron Underground Passage) has the normal Beastiary property of being weak vs Wind. However, if you go scan and actually test out the monster, you will see that it is not Quake immune (or weak vs Wind, as described by Libra). Same goes for the lone Arachne. Someone really royally goofed. I bet Scamaglione (Mt. Ordeals Undead version) is not immune to Quake (which I will test in a moment).
Someone probably made the mistake that floating = Quake immune... and that's just not right.
It's funny to see an Arachne hit you, in response to a charmed Arachne using Quake on the team. They are coded to attack you when magic is used, but apparently enemy magic is included it in (you would never see this happen normally because of the earlier described "natural" Quake immunity).
:edit: Scarmaglione can indeed be hit by Quake... despite not being possible in prior ports. He's probably missing the weakness vs Wind property too.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 21, 2012, 01:40:44 AM
Killing TrapDoors with the Avenger is pie (equipped on Kain because he would be faster and stronger than Cecil). Let the Avenger do its work. At least now I know there's 15 doors...
The Wall is a joke... despite my usual overleveling, it's still a pushover.
Killing Bahamut effectively requires Rydia+Rosa @ level 55 (Flare and Holy) and FuSoYa is most effective if you didn't sell off the Faerie Rod from the Sylph's Cave. Why even waste time with Reflect? The Plague does train you to be brutally efficient.
There's one really annoying change made... using the Mist Dragon to attack the Behemoth got me a Maelstrom. WHY??? The only time this is normally triggered is when a Holy elemental spell is used. The problem with it is that Holy elemental doesn't seem to be there, as my math recalls that elemental weakness in addition to maxHP based attacks should double damage... and it's not there for some reason. I don't know who's dumb idea this was to punish users from using the Mist Dragon. This isn't TAY where it is known that the summon has changed. Someone really fucked this up.
Note: To test my summon theory, I casted Chocobo to see if the Behemoth would counter with Maelstrom. It didn't... so someone clearly has fucked this up.
Believe it or not, I spent some time reorganizing my spell lists for both Black and White magic to improve spell selection efficiency while using Active ATB+Battle Speed of 1.
:edit: It's nice to have FuSoYa not locked up when he uses the Spirit command...
I guess it is a nice change to see the CPU and others are finally floating... as I tried to use the Float trick and that didn't work... apparently using Float on already floating monsters don't work. At least the Boomerang makes the damage more palatable vs the CPU...
Having reorganized the spells... I've put Death at the back of the spell list. Considering how Tornado is generally more useful (and Break vs multiple targets), you'd think Death would be in Tellah's spell list instead of Tornado (then again, Tellah's spell power sucks). Death has a higher success rate (in terms of accuracy), but then again, death resistance does exist in many monsters...
Also, the drop rate for the Centaurian looks normal (it's actually very high - 25%)... relative to the drop rates from every other monster. So, clearly the default drop rate is completely broken (less than 5%).
I'm strongly wondering if I should do the Advance part of the game (the Trials and Ruins), but I'm sure I'd be very disappointed as usual. I kinda want to do the Interlude...
:edit: Finished the normal game with the normal characters @ around level 70.
I may have forgotten to mention this, but usually monsters in chests don't cause different battle start results (Preemptive/Surprise/Back Attack)... now they do. Although, the Lunar Subterrane don't seem to follow that, then again, those monsters never really generate back attacks and stuff.
Big Bang doesn't cause Sap/HP leak, which is disappointing in that change.
Black Hole seems to work like the original (targets all characters/enemy) plus Sap removal.
The Lunarsaur is finally immune to Bad Breath... shocker.
I could swear that the Dark Bahamut, Ogopogo... and most certainly the Deathmask was harder. Of course unblockable Reflect was part of the FF4A Euro/Jap 1.1 changes.
I thought I would not see this ever... but I saw the Mist Dragon manage to miss hitting monsters. I don't know why that happens... it must be part of the maxHP/currentHP spell attack changes. That's not good... and it doesn't help Odin any.
Sylph is great vs Zeromus.. if you are occasionally able to absorb a Flare attack. The common Bio backlash is harmless in the grand scheme of things.
:edit: Blue Dragon is not listed as Resistant or "Leeches" Throw (or Wind elemental specifically), which is still the case.
I love the Flan Princess visual of the hidden "Dance" attack. Then again, I love the Piggy trick (to avoid Berserk status).... which got me to notice their arms and legs... which use same colors as the normal sprite would use. Nothing beats a Jumping Pig.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 21, 2012, 07:31:59 PM
Currently, I'm on the Interlude run.
I find myself grinding a little for the money.. though I am very selective on the items I buy. On the other hand, the money drops are pitiful, to the point of wishing I had something like those Marions available..
Item drops seem to work normally in this version... for what reason, I have no idea.
I forgot to mention earlier that I've never seen magic, or specifically monster magic dealing 0 damage... like Pollen. Then again, the Sap status annoys me like fuck, when primarily exposed to it like in the Lodestone Cavern...
Anyways, the game effectively reminds me why I buy virtually NOTHING from Mythril. The Hammer and the Gloves (both for Cid) are the only things worth buying.
Cecil's initial Flame Mail screams for the Ice Shield... as that combo is worth obtaining (yes, 10k is worth it, for the extra racial resistance).
I want to cry at the existence of the monks. It is a fucking terrible idea to stack two of the same elemental claws together. My guide already explains why... so why do these morons test my patience?
I've reached the Underground portion of the Interlude, and although there are many options, I kinda disappointed to having the available selection of armors. It's not too hard to get a combo you would like... like Grand Helm+Ice Shield+Flame Armor or Fire/Ice Shield+Luminous Robe... At least the idea of a hand-me down idea still works good... the Gold Hairband for Porom (which isn't so useful magic wise) will give Palom a free Sage's Mitre (for Undead protection)... the options are nice... but can blow up one's mind.
:edit: I understand the Interlude is supposed to tie loose ends up, but some of it is unimaginative. For instance, the monster formations are tweaks to already perfectly known ones.
Putting one "specific" monster to justify the existence of the Mythril equipment (and I had a thread about it in the first place) tells me that someone was listening/reading this.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 22, 2012, 03:22:12 AM
Hmmm... outside of the fact that the item list is full and keeps getting moved around... the Beastiary part is the downfall... since I focused on killing the damned TrapDoors... If the "summoned" monsters were available in other areas... it would've made life easier...
Juggling elemental resistances was tough but fun. Too bad it costs an arm and a leg to get to that point.
Too much dungeon reuse bothered me. The extensions to Mt. Hobs was alright, but nothing to write home about.
I don't know what else to mention at this moment, other than exposure to so many shitty equipment that you thought sucked, still sucks.
"Holy" Flan sword is a misnomer... especially when the sword isn't even Holy elemental.
Double Meteor beats your Meteor....
For a while, you can put Cid in the back row... which isn't a bad thing when you abuse the lesser known the Dwarf Axe's ignore row bit.
:edit: A few confusing bits. Understandably the creature that poses as Rydia was meant to be able to control the summons... as part of the future plot. I don't how that creature gains ANY summons through a boss battle. I guess you can get the essence of a summon, but how would that give you full reign over it like that unless it's not a clone copy of it?
Since when was Cecil the name dropper? I thought that was Edge's forte.
Building an anonymous monk based on Yang's stats, outside of HP, is still pretty lame.
Also, having a spell multiplier of 1 does not get you compelling magic damage, ever.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 24, 2012, 01:11:25 AM
I've been replaying the Interlude on the Euro version... the item drops seems to be normal, but I'm not exactly confirming that since I haven't done major monster grinding to come to that conclusion.
Note: There's some odd increase in drops when there are multiple monsters involved in a fixed treasure drop.. like the treasures in the Sylph's Cave (or the Cache that they named the room).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 25, 2012, 01:28:00 AM
I'll start on TAY sometime tonight and certainly after Sunday.
I've effectively played the Interlude 3 times, and have come to the conclusion:
It is effectively closest to a newbie mod for the game. I'm sure there was some "creativity" in using different equipment, and lesser known monsters to complete a beastiary, but it's nothing to write home about. If anything, it's giving some new guys a chance to be able to get experience while polishing some aspects of this game. I can't say it's bad, but it isn't great by any means.
Storywise, it is kind of weak, but leaves some stuff unanswered (I'm sure playing TAY will address this, but that's not the point).
I will say a few things that I've seen from Youtube vids and character art...
The reuse of the FF1 GBA (or even WSC?) port of the Paladin was self evident. No need to do too much work right? Then again, FF5 had Butz using Kain's look as a Dragoon... at least there's some coolness to that.
However, why did they use any resemblance to FF5 Cara's Monk look for Ursula? Did we suddenly get unimaginative? There is something to be said for reuse, and then just not being creative and/or lazy. There is no right or wrong answer for their decisions, but.... some of these ideas should have been fleshed out better.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on November 26, 2012, 11:22:06 AM
The After Years team probably had next to no budget to work with, which explains the resource reuse in the versions that use the original graphics. (In addition to FF5 and FF6, there are some Romancing SaGa edits in there, too. And in addition to graphics, entire chunks of the game scenario are copied from the original...) It's not until the last couple chapters that you actually start seeing new art for monsters and backgrounds. The sad thing is I did a more convincing job "FF6izing" the FF4 characters for the Halloween sprites, and those are intended to look like FF6 characters dressed as FF4 characters.
While I'm impressed with the monster sprites for the most part, the PSP graphics have this RPG Maker XP look to them that I can't stand. Maybe that's just what happens when you increase the resolution of these old games, but stylistically it just feels so off compared to the original.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 26, 2012, 01:18:14 PM
Considering the original source (phone port), that probably shouldn't shock anyone. It's not a bad attempt, just not a great attempt.
Completed Ceodore's chapter. I've see many of such equipment before (FF5/FF6/FF1A), so I guess that's an upgrade.
:edit: I swear it could be the emulation, but the drop rate is far "generous" that I ever recall it. The drop rate seems normal, but the rare drops are far more common than ever. I got 3 Goblin summons, 1 Giant's Glove, and a Cursed Ring (but lost it because I died before I could save the Cursed Ring).
:edit: Also, the monsters have some really huge habit of attacking the middle character... for whatever the reason. Once in a blue moon, they will attack other characters randomly (outside of multi-targeted spells). I figure it's some emulation issue.
Row does affect bands, only if the attack is physical (like the Wedge+Biggs band).
Calca's Jive attacks resemble a list of special monster magic. I figure it's some sort of list and randomization probabilities. If what I've read about the dolls are correct, these will change/scale depending on level. Think of it like FF5's !Terrain/!Gaia command. I'm sure there is something similar going on with Brena's Dance command.
The Calcabrena (Band) scares me... the doll is scary. I wonder if the band scales with stronger attacks through the levels. There are only 4 attacks. 3 elemental spells (Fire, Ice, Lightning) and one non-elemental but single attack (it's like a noggin nudge).
I've seen the Calcabrena Band trigger a "physical" attack response from the Gatelinger monsters (the rats with the needles on them) when the command didn't kill them. On the other hand, the attacks themselves are generally magical.. since it seemed to hurt the Flan based monsters w/o issue. Interesting...
The band with Ceodore and Kain/Hooded Man seems to dish the combined damage between the two characters and doubles it. Pretty simple and effective, but also affected by row.
The Moon phases seem to affect each ability by 1/4 of their normal behavior. So it's a boost or loss of 25%. I'm sure that's well documented.
:edit: Playing Rydia's Tale as it should be somewhat obvious from my comments. Heal Dance seems to heal HP on some maxHP based scheme instead of the classic Cure scheme. Of course the moon sequence certainly affects this.
A lot of the monster attacks from Calca's Jive does seem to rely on his Intelligence, which isn't surprising. What can be annoying is the unwanted status attacks and some of the very limited monster attacks that can limit the damage potential. There are certainly more devastating ones I've seen (like Maelstrom) that I haven't seen... surely that would change with level.
I've also had difficulty killing the TrapDoor outright, outside of the fact that they have adjusted the HP. The high magic defense makes them a difficult target...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 27, 2012, 01:47:46 AM
I believe I'm halfway finished with Rydia's Tale.
Anyways, the dolls are more useful than I thought. If hopefully level alters the skill usage of the Jive command, it would make things nice.
The damned Wall monster seems to target Brena a lot. Brena's in the last slot. At the very least, that's an improvement from virtually all monsters attacking the middle slot (which Luca occupies).
I forgot to mention that the Calcabrena band also randomly casts Cura... as if Brena couldn't randomly do that on her own.
I think there was a point where the Calcabrena band didn't kill the stronger version of the rat with needles monsters - it retaliated with Needles... hmmm (I have to double check if that happened).
Jive is considered a magic attack... the Naga type monsters reacted to a non-damaging attack in kind with Slow.
"Magic" level notes: Calca @ level 12 for 8 agility Luca @ level 17 for 8 agility Calca @ level 22 or something for 32 agility when equipped with the Clown's Clothes
The Horned equipment is technically evil. +3 STR with -3 INT and -3 SPR sucks. Not that Luca has a lot of Spirit, but that causes her to be crippled under Paralysis (the snake monsters will use that if you leave them alive long enough). Battle Axe falls under the same evil... at least the Tomahawk does not (straight +5 STR).
Big Throw is essentially giving the "ignore row" ability to Luca's weapon. This allows for Luca to stay in the back row indefinitely if you wish. This is not a bad thing, considering she's a slightly weaker Cid clone, so the heavy armor is beneficial. Even then, it allows her to hit things in the monster's back row... which sometimes is your intended target.
Clown's Clothes > Warrior's Clothes. Despite the +20 STR crack that the Warrior Clothes provides, it neuters magic stats (-5 INT and -5 SPR). Clown Clothes gives +20 AGI for a major defensive improvement (and when you get to 32 AGI, magic evasion increase).
It seems like the developers did take some time to provide multiple options for the dolls. You could go with the classic route with the Angel's and Mage's Clothes to keep the dolls pro-magic/command based, or you could make the dolls offensive with the Warrior+Clown's clothes.
Mage's Clothes for Rydia for a nice boost (Gaia Gear has limited uses), +3 INT AND +3 SPR is good for her magic evasion.
The Healing Rod is a black wizard version of the Healing Staff, which does slightly stronger healing. 3x spell multiplier (rod) vs 2x spell multiplier (staff). Then again, you get better bonuses (+3 INT and +3 SPR vs... nothing). Somewhat lame, but needed.
There is some legit thought to balance in the game... now only if they redid the crappy goblin's spell (and its spell power).
In attempting to use the Go! Go! Calcabrena band vs the bats, it seems to still work vs them, despite Lightning absorption. It seems to lessen the damage to the bats with the elemental absorption to lightning. This is not a bad thing, but worth paying attention to.
:edit: There aren't that many TrapDoors (seems to be like 4?) - Half of them summon the Goblin Caption (or the Dark Goblins - usually the normal underground monster version) and the others summon Sorceresses. Unfortunately, the game (US version) seemed to not want to record their deaths in the Beastiary. I don't know why.
Racial compatibility with weapons is simply a 50% bonus, as noted earlier (used Mythril Knife vs Souls and Spirit). It's not that bad a nerf. It might be bad if there was elemental resistance applied. On average, doing +87.5% average additional damage, is close enough to doing double damage (+100%).
:edit: Small update before sleep: My last save was made in the in-game time of 4:44, with 33333 gil. How nice!
Ice Rod got an INT boost (+3). Should have been done in the original game in the first place!
Tomahawk has the nifty ability to be back row friendly (ignore row). Unlike the original Dwarf Axe, it has the Wind elemental attribute! Great... someone figured to add this "feature".
It's been a long day, when you decide to prefer the Ruby Ring over the Iron Gloves. 2 defense vs 3 magic defense + pig resistance.... before adding the fact that 10% additional evasion is better than 0%. I don't think I've ever had to make such a decision like that ever...
:edit: Level 26-27 for Rydia and Luca Agility @ 16
A nice "feature" in TAY is to not see anticipated retaliation attacks while under statuses like piggy that would normally prevent the counter attack. For instance, seeing the Lilith not being able to Slap under Piggy or the Naga casting Slow under Mute... in the normal game, you would see the counter message. In this game, you miss it.
It seems to me that the port of FF4 could use some "cleanup". When Pollen can potentially dish 0 damage in FF4PSP (outside of the Sap affliction), the damage is highlighted in green. Although this is cosmetic, this is not displayed in TAY, where 0 damage is not highlighted in green. The same could be said for Osmose damage where the damage is highlighted in blue when 0 damage is applied (to self or to targets that have 0 MP like Kain).
:edit: Fortunately got 2 Cursed Ring drops, and the Mindflayer summon. Apparently, the Cockatrice appearances are difficult in the rare slot formation in the Sylph Cave....
The Mindflayer sucks... if your target is immune to Paralysis (or happen to be a boss), it automatically fails. When it does work, the summon is not too bad.
The Plate Armor really sucks. It is possibly the only armor that provides negative evasion (-10%). Sometimes, it is smarter to play with more evasion than boosting defense.
The Lightning Hammer attack (Rydia+Luca band) is very sweet. It's effective a combo of Thunder (the basic version) plus Luca's base attack (so spell power+attack power) and multiplied by 2. It seems to deal less damage if you have a higher magic defense though.
:edit: Bomb summon is da Bomb! Being able to target single monsters sucks, but it has the benefit of not causing a ruckus when you don't want it (see original CPU battle). It's definitely fire elemental, but I'm unsure of the spell power. It has been reported to be around 120, but I haven't had a chance to crunch the numbers. It's more powerful than Bio.. but it won't be more powerful than Firaga. It would've been nicer if the spell was non-elemental... At least damage spells are reliable (looking at you squid Mageflayer)...
Easily maxed out levels in just one long run (with the occasional leaving the dungeon initially, as it would've been nice as a save spot). Ended up with 2 High Potions left (started with 50, having bought 40 or so before heading there). Ended up with 2 at the very end.... This feels kinda like the Tower of Zot in my early FF4 gaming... where Potions were used quite a bit.
I don't know if racial resistances are working... but my initial thought is that the behavior may have been changed. Giants Gloves don't seem to help too much vs the Mad Ogres... My guess is that there may have been reduced accuracy or something. I have Luca in the back row, but that doesn't quite help matters.
Those Walls seems to target Rydia now, having lost the dolls. It is almost as if it has reverse row targeting (Luca is in the middle slot, Rydia in the top slot, both in back row).
Those Goblins... are the joke. I think the endurance part of the challenge dungeon is the focus.
Like Titan's final Quake attack on the characters, a lot of this is scripted spell scheming. Instead of reducing HP by a certain portion, it's reducing HP TO a certain percentage or value like with the Interlude's final battle with the machines. The intent is to put characters into critical to tell the story "accurately". The only issue is how the machines at the end of the Interlude have "hidden Edge" casting Blitz dealing TWICE as much damage as Edge normally would be able to. The math doesn't add up correctly... at least with the hidden Rydia with the underground Golbez battle in the original game, the damage isn't accurate to the Mist Dragon spell, but it's "accurate" to how much HP she should have when she gets back with the team if you base it on the spell data.
I like Luca better than Cid... just based on skills alone.
:edit: I need to get around to testing Mad Ogres vs Lightning Brain Buster...
Team Monk is simple... just let them all Kick the opponents to oblivion when monster # is greater than 2. Otherwise, you can just punch them into oblivion.
It's interesting to note that Kick falls under the Attack Power alteration stuff... which is technically true since Kick damage is literally based off of that. However, Focus is not highlighted as such.... I haven't tested it yet (since last I checked, that command dropped Yang's magic evasion to 0, which it is already), but I anticipate that it is affected by the Attack Power changes. Understandably it is not affected by Special Command changes...
Cover Counter (or was it Counter Cover) is probably affected by the Attack Power changes... since it is literally what it is (if anything, you should be seeing red in Yang's command list).
Chakra is affected by the Special Command moon stuff... and I think it might be loosely be based on Spirit (unsure, but will need further observation). It doesn't heal Paralysis from the damned TinyMages, but it does heal Blind from the damn butterflies. I will have to observe further for the other status affects (probably Poison is the only other one, since it is probably based off of FF5's !Chakra command).
:edit: Got testing done. Apparently, my initial thought of Magic Defense was wrong... since Lightning Brain Buster doesn't seem to affect the Mad Ogre's immense magic defense...
However, defense was the actual factor it seems. It didn't stop it from kicking the Purple Bavarios's ass. However, the damage was far weaker than a monster that had no weakness, but weak defense.
Also, Gradual Petrify is not healed by Chakra (and by extension, Stone, which is the final state - works like Gaia Gear resistance when you think about). The only reason why I believe Poison is healed by it is because Focus (as defined by the original game) is disabled under Poison status.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 28, 2012, 01:33:48 AM
I believe the Spell Power of Chakra is 80 (could be 72, but I need to do more math). The healing "range" is not that high (probably some added number added to the healing). It is powered solely by Spirit (so, the Rune Armlet in the forests of hell is useful for Ursula).
Auto-Battle is not exactly like holding the A-button. If you kill a target, and another character selects the same target, the usual behavior is to see an retargeted attack to a different monster and that is not necessarily the next monster in line. However, that character may still be randomly targeting, instead of the next monster in line (there is an order after all), so weird targeting can happen.
If I forgot to mention this, the Egg that houses the Green Dragon in Ceodore's Tale is not recorded when the Egg is revealed and the monster is killed. It feels like one of those FF4A bugs again... (kinda like the TrapDoor->Sorceress one).
Chakra does not heal Silence or Curse (from the Lilith's Slap).
I think the Blaster attack from the "cats" is simply instant death across the board (perhaps Paralysis is applied, if the target has Death resistance?)
When the full party of Monks gather, the monsters seem to hate on Monk A (at the bottommost slot).
During the Adamantoise Battle, the Monks are "reshuffled" IIRC (if not, I forgot) back to Monk A, B, and C in the back row... the monster targets them from C, B, A, Ursula, then Yang in that order... the retargeting only occurs when the characters in that order die. I know there's code to be able to react to characters that are critical, but this is ridiculous in terms of fixing it in such a way. It makes sense to be prepared to Revive and Heal a character with two consecutive turns in order to reduce the possibility of having to revive again.
The Monks stats are rigged... the fastest Monk has the least defense and HP whereas the slowest Monk has the best defense and HP. They all suck... none of them will exceed a 5x Attack Multiplier and 1x Defense Multiplier without the good stuff (Power Armlet and/or Charm Claw). Maybe these monks should have names...
IIRC, Monk C is average, and Monk B is the fastest...
:edit: Confuse and Sap status is not healed by Chakra.
Tenketsu seems to do 25% more damage than attack (it's hard to get the moon cycle that gets them neutral. However, it seems to just "ignore" defense when it comes to that Armored Tunneler monster in the challenge dungeon (which, may make this attack a Flan killer). Note that Tenketsu is affected by a command delay and not primarily affected by the Special Attack bonus/loss instead of the Attack Power bonus/loss.
Focus is definitely affected by attack power moon cycles.
Tenketsu does seem to react to the Lamia Matriach monster as a "magical attack", unless they changed the monster's behavior (it reacts to magic attacks).
Five Star Crimson Palm is simply the combined regular attack with Ursula+Yang, and applies Slow (it's a somewhat more expensive version of it, but you get the damage).
Twin Wing Frenzy is simply the combined regular attack with Ursula+Yang, multiplied by 2.
Back row and Kick makes life easier on the trial run.
Charm status is overridden by Sleep status. This can be done with Fairy+Cat Claws in addition to magic.
:edit: Tenketsu allows for critical hits.. which is nice.
Band seem to ignore elemental properties of equipped weapon (possibly racial ones too). I used both bands that Yang+Ursula on the Red Dragon, and they both had Ice Claws (that the Red Dragon should be weak against)... it didn't increase damage. This is very useful...
Chakra Band (Monk? equipment) - +3 STR, +3 AGI, +3 SPR, +10% Evasion - really nice for Ursula
Silver Breastplate... +15% Evasion... This FF5-like light/medium armor for Monks is an slight improvement over the original game.
Rose Twin Dress for Ursula +35% Evasion, +3 all stats - this is crack
Boosting Ursula's Spirit makes the Chakra skill a nice in between healer (better than Cura, worse than Curaga) and very useful as a whole. Frankly... most of the "children" (psuedo-clones) of the original characters are that much better, despite having limitations. The "exception" so far is Ceodore (getting a nice host of White Magic, but being weaker than Cecil).
Luca is better than Cid... with the back row command option to increase defense while not having as much HP, will benefit long term. Ursula is more complete - semi-healer, faster, which produces a much stronger monk, despite having less HP to work with...
:edit: Forgot to mention, most of the HP based attacks are generally based off of the monster's HP, not the targets. The Flamebeast/Icebeast/Chimeras have their primary annoying attack be based off their own HP. This allows for some limited balance, but doesn't scale the same way that the character/target's maxHP attacks would.
Also, monster spells (I don't mean black/white magic, but more like monster specialty spells) are affected either by Black Magic changes or Special Skill changes.. I'm learning towards the former, but yes, these are affected by the moon.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 29, 2012, 01:23:34 AM
I'll try to grind for Yang's Tale for the tail... apparently the developers couldn't spend a little bit of time doing pixel art for the tail icon (is it too hard to ask?)
I will need to get more of Ceodore's Challenge rare items plus the Blue Dragon... but I'll do the next tale first (Palom's Tale I think).
Some more notes: Status resistances are displayed differently in the FF4 PSP port (and Interlude) than in the TAY portion. Why this cannot be consistent is a mystery... ineffective statuses due to resistance is displayed as "Miss" instead of the PSP's ports "it hits, but doesn't do squat".
A dangerous enemy is the Coeurl as seen before... it reacts when you do damage to it and uses Blaster... and Blaster in this version is strictly instant Death. When this is a summoned beast, it does its revenge by literally using Blaster. It seems that it "remembers" that you killed it (with HP), so when it gets the chance after the revive, it will take you down immediately. This is probably related to code which "delays" counter attacks when a monster is put into a statuses like Sleep, Confuse, or Paralysis. Monsters that react to magic or specific magic (like Holy elemental for Zemus's Mind - the purple being in the Lunar Core lowest level) tend to "delay" their counters after they are put into a different status that would prevent them from using it... this is why Zemus's Mind/Malice "remembers" to use Shell when the Lightbringer Sword does the additional Holy attack that doesn't kill it... it casts Shell after casting Protect (Protect is the reaction to the physical attack). Anyways, the point is, this is not cleared from the death of the Coeurl, making a very nasty monster, a very vengeful one.
Elemental weakness from Ice/Fire elemental equipment has been removed. I haven't tested the weapon elemental part, but I'm pretty sure the magical side reflects this (and was tested with Libra and actual magic). Great... nice to be different than the original game.
The Spirit Ring was design moreso for Luca (and others like her) than Rydia... +15% evasion and +5 AGI is nice, but the magic defense bonus can cure some deficiencies in her armor set. Rings tend to favor wizards, which tend to have good/great magic defense... Fighters do not get much in the way of magic defense, but get plenty to show for in raw defense.
Note: Oh, if you plan on using any of this in a Walkthrough or something like that, please give credit where credit is due. I'm sure most of this info isn't new, but some of it, I don't think has been looked into thoroughly.
:edit: The drop rate for dropping money seems to be rare.. not that it matters (maybe it is level based now?)
There are a number of formations that were already in the game, but went unused... like 2 Bomb and 2 Greybomb formation where the positions are switched a little bit. There has been a reasonable concerted focus to integrate the monsters with the environment... but more importantly, to make the best use of the characters that were added and already there. I don't think I've used Palom like I have in the original game.. where no magic needed to be used. Despite there being no "fighter" (it's an all-mage party), a number of monster formations do not allow for "one hit kills"... on the other hand, there are also "magic overkill" formations.
I wonder what Palom's Boast is doing... since it seems to affect monsters. There is existing code from the older game that allowed monsters to react to commands, like Jump, but you could mod it to react to Steal and Sing... or whatever command you wished. It is good that this was taken advantage of further... My initial guess is that it inflicts "blind", since that is the act of "cringing". I think it is still doing the 16 point INT boost... but I'm not entirely sure.
The band "A Little Black Magic" is limited but great if you're bored. For 10MP for Palom+Leonora, she will randomly cast the following: Blizzard? (2MP) = 1/2 the power of Blizzard - 8 spell power Blizzard - 16 spell power Blizzara - 64 spell power Blizzaga - 256 spell power
It targets all monsters on the field.. and it isn't always great. The weaker the spell, the higher chance it will occur. The treasure in all of this is when she casts Blizzaga... a lower cost version. Unfortunately, the spell is based on Leonora's INT and as you know is pretty bad. The Boast aspect is Palom "encouraging her" to cast the spell. It's easier to get Palom to cast Blizzara than to weigh in on the randomness. However, if you feel like wasting MP and/or are targeting Ice elemental monsters, you might as well try. If only the MP consumption was closer to 7MP, it would be appreciable.
The ? magic (Fire? Blizzard? Thunder?) are simply 1/2 as powerful versions of the original (? spells have 8 spell power, regular versions are 16). Additionally, they have slightly different graphics (Blizzard? looks more like the original Blizzard version in FF4). They all cost 2MP, so it is a smarter idea to pretend they didn't exist.
I'll have posts about equipment soon. +1 SPR for the Staff and Healing Staff is nice, but disappointing. Psycho Staff (or whatever it is called) should have been a Staff instead of a Rod in the first place (it is white magic after all).
IIRC, the Rune Armlet is not magnetic.. as it is more of a "rock".
The accuracy of the Great Bow has greatly improved (aka rebalanced) to 75% acc (+3 STR). This makes the Bow+Arrow very usable, unlike the semi-usability of them on Mt. Ordeals when Cecil and the twins climb it (using the low accuracy Crossbow).
Lenora statistically looks like Porom in the magic growth... but is actually a stronger Palom... but not as fast. It makes her the ideal candidate for Bow+Arrow weaponry before Palom (his STR growth is surprisingly slower). Then again, it's similar to the Monk ABC phenomenon. I do like Leonora... except her black magic growth is only good for cheap cleanup. At the very least, she would hold up better than FuSoYa. Her black magic effectively works like Tellah at the moment... which isn't exactly high praise. I was fortunate to learn Poison (level 15) before I got the basic elementals. :P
I think I forgot to mention... the Brena doll is kinda like Porom, and the Calca doll is kinda like Palom.. without the consistent magic spell list.
Palom is given the spell Break initially (shouldn't he have it anyways?). You quickly learn how terrible it is... because when Rydia learns it in the original game, she actually has enough magic power to use it effectively (the accuracy of the spell is . At this point, it is pitiful... so wait until his INT is at an exceptional level first... It's actually Tellah-like initially...
Break's spell hit rate/acc is 30. It's slightly better than half of Sleep (50) but 3 times stronger than Piggy (10). You would need an INT of 50 to even have a 50-50 shot of Break working on its target. Spell accuracy is increased by INT/2... so an maxed INT of 99 will increase the acc of Break to 79, which is pretty good for the most part. Putting Palom in the middle slot should help (I'm not entirely sure if the code is still there, but that increases spell hit rate by 25% IIRC), which should put the effectiveness to near perfect.
The healing squid monster does not heal himself with Cure (or was it Cura?). I'm unsure if they are intentionally not targeting it, but consider the fact that using the spell would be pointless, and would probably heal 1 point. The reason for this is that monster healing themselves through Cure is not effective. It works AGAINST their magic defense. You would not have ever noticed it vs the Magus Sisters when Mindy (the big girl) is dead and Sandy (the tall girl) is alive. You would've never noticed vs Asura since Curaga has a pretty high spell power (144). I will have to look further into this.
Note: I wrote a small extension to the TinyMage script in my hack just casting Cura on the caster.. Cure is not effective vs the TinyMage because of its strangely higher than normal defense at the time.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 30, 2012, 02:05:34 AM
I'll try to reserve more of my thoughts of equipment later... I'm too tired to write them up.
It seems like monsters with Cure and magic defense has changed. When targeting the damned squid (Spirit Priest) with magic, its counter is Cure to all monsters, including himself. So... this notes the fact that the Spirit Priest's super high magic defense didn't actually hurt him... and targeting code that went unused/barely used (target every monster other than self).
Of course, this causes the Naga to cast Slow (counter vs magic).
It's amusing to see monsters counter attacks made by other monsters (like, a charmed monster attacking a Ghost Knight, causing it to cast Bio onto a random character). It's been there in the original, but more exposed to random lol by other craziness.
Leonora suddenly becomes really epic when she learns Osmose @ level 39 IIRC. Getting a Lilith Rod though, would help her weapon options for INT (Palom would probably hog the Polymorph Rod for various reasons.)
On the Flan Floor of the challenge dungeon, there are two hidden treasure chests in front of the pillars nears the exit. It is hard to see them, but they are there. There's some Blinding Arrows and a Remedy there.
Protect "works", but doesn't "work" and sometimes works weirdly. It might be the RNG, but the damage received from getting some Protect boost seems to be inconsistent at best. On the other hand, the Protect Staff seems to kinda work, and not work. I don't know how to explain or make of this. It's almost as if Protect gives a buffer to reduce damage, but then it loses its effect (damage goes back to increasing) and then you have to reapply it again. I don't know.
There's something clearly wrong with the RNG emulation or something... where the boss is stuck into weak vs Lightning mode and casting Fira... when my initial attack spell is Blizzara. Go figure. Then again, it keeps attacking Palom first all day.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 01, 2012, 01:51:10 AM
There's too many "magic levels" of note. To keep it simple, it is the stats that increase certain multipliers when combined with certain equipment. Usually a magic number is divisible by 8 (since, that is what contributes to most multiplier boosts).
Anyways, onto some notes.
The Gil Bird is annoying. It is like fighting Edward. The difference is that the time it takes for the bird to return, you can cast the nice Particle Bomb Band and let it do the dirty work. It doesn't one shot the stronger (and more generous) bird all the time, but it is close enough. Just input the command when the bird is returning. Then it gets blown up! It's one big chicken...
Particle Bomb is about twice the strength of Bio, but I'm not entirely sure, since Leonora's INT is not as high (it's probably some combined INT value or damage combination) and Palom's Bio is pretty strong. It reminds me of Chrono Trigger's Antipode epicness.
Mystic Veil is epic. +1 AGI (not too nifty), +7 INT, +SPR is really sweet. I need to find a way to test Holy resistance. (+8% evasion)
Talisman is nice... +5 INT, +5 SPR, but no mage resistance (considering what you face in the dungeons, you kinda need it, plus the Silence protection).... it's semi-heavy (+5% evade... note that having no armor in the head/body/arms is +10% evasion each)
It's interesting how the Lodestone Cave doesn't really affect you equipment wise... mages have pretty non-metallic equipment given what the game provides (the Rune Ring being the major addition/difference). So, you don't really have to do much, outside of ignoring the Mythril and Silver stuff.
The Red Robe is a new piece of equipment this is supposed to reflect Leonora, and what a Sage truly is... a Red Mage. I liked it in both FF1 and FF5... although FF5's Red Mage was only good early, and I wasn't a huge fan of Dualcast.. but that of course started the whole Dualcast phenomenon (unless some earlier NES FF added it). +4 INT and +4 SPR... something Tellah would've been jealous of!
The info about the Single Star is correct... I guess they goofed on the description for the Wii.
Wizard's Rod looks pretty sweet in theory (+9 INT) . It kinda resembles FF5's Wizard Rod in some sense, but it's nothing to exactly write home about. The spell it uses is exactly the same as the Dancing Dagger, at the probably same spell power.
The Protect Staff's +10 STA and +5 SPR is nice...but the Lilith Rod for Leonora is better, since the MP you steal (particularly from Ogres) contribute far more, and you still get a boosted stat for magic evasion purposes. I'm wondering if the spell multiplier has changed, but it probably has not.
I thought I saw something crazy... like I casted Bio with Palom, and it didn't kill the Ghost Knight outright. The usual response is to cast Reflect on itself, which it did. Then it proceeds to cast it again unprovoked, as if the self-casting of Reflect also triggered the same response again, but that causes Reflect to bounce off itself and onto a character. Go figure.
:edit: Protect seems to work, but it doesn't exactly provide any sort of major impact. It decreases damage intake... it's either by some percentage (basically, damage * 3/4) or the defense by some small percentage (which in turn reduces damage). I'd have to look into it further. It's probably better than the original's slow-to-impact stacking, but it has minimal impact unless you stack it (4 times is it?). I have seen it reduce damage up to half, but that has required a bit of stacking... and it's annoying that the Protect Staff ONLY targets 1 character (no multi-target for it).
Magic evasion seems to be the root cause of status attack avoidance, like Blaster, the attack the Medusas do, and the Lamia's/Lilith's Lust attack. I guess that's better than "it always works".
Angel Arrows (dropped by the Lamia) seems to hold onto its "effective vs Giants" property. I'm sure the same would be for the Silencing Arrows or the Elven Bow.
Picked up a pair of Angel Arrows and whatever rarest drop the Medusas provide. Too bad I can't test them in this tale.
:edit: Started Edge's Tale...
I'm not sure if the moon is affecting the damage of Ninjutsu (though, I think only for the moon that affects special commands).
Flood's spell power appears to be 32. It's only twice as strong as Blizzard (half as strong as Blizzara), but doesn't suffer from split damage. The spell itself is what I would call Blizzard 1.5. It won't scale too well going forward, but I doubt that's Izayoi's main strength. She's a healer, but her Spirit growth is a bit weaker than a White Mage. I assume that the spell power of her Heal Ninjutsu will compensate for that (higher base healing), especially since the cost of casting it is much higher that Cure. Suddenly, the Bow+Arrow is more attractive than the whip.
Shinobi Gear is nice.. since Agility bonuses from any equipment was rare in the original game. +3 AGI beats the +1 AGI from the Foot Ninja Gear (don't even ask me about the equipment naming).
The Boomerang is the ninja's best companion weapon... you won't be effective in the back row w/o it.
Tsukinowa is like an early version of Edge somehow. Stats look crap, but seem to gain pretty quickly. Natural stat is AGI (of course, Ninjas are supposed to be fast), but not exactly the strongest kid. Of course, the entire mini-bit is hilarious despite the reuse of certain things. Now we know exactly why he is the "wind" ninja.
Gale is essentially FF5's Aera (Aero2). Finally someone decided that it was a legit element and made it magic. The difference is that it is more like a level 2 elemental (spell power = 64), and that is exactly what that spell is. It will not be that useful long term, but for the occasional flying unit, this might be an OK replacement over a Boomerang weapon.
I was amused at the message when Izayoi's Illusions command failed. In addition, her mini-convo with Palom is pretty funny.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on December 01, 2012, 09:09:04 PM
You're making me want to play this again. I hate you. :shadow:
What emulator are you using, by the way? I'll probably just play my Wii copy on the console, but I wasn't even aware there was a functional PSP emulator.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 01, 2012, 10:34:10 PM
You're welcome. :wink:
I use JPCSP (yes, it requires Java). It seems to work better on NVidia video cards.. but there are certain issues like needing better optimizations and specific settings for the game. I suggest you look in their forums for the specific thread about it. The video card has to have shaders (SM3 based IIRC - Shader Model 3, with every DX9c compliant cards)
Ignore some of the initial messages when you play the game... they have to do with not having created save data for it. Once you save the game, it will go away.
The slowest parts are the "Crystal Breaking" effect and anything to do with Lightning (Fire is not as bad).
Zangetsu seems to be like some sort of jack-of-all-trades kind of ninja. Reasonably fast (but slower than most of the ninjas, due to implied age), but wielding Spears limits his options. No shield sucks for defensive purposes (I'm sure that is changed with the Adamant Shield), but Flying Kite is essentially another version of Jump (although, it could be not strictly 2 times the attack power... I haven't tested it thoroughly to be sure) and his magic is alright (built more like the poor man's Black Wizard). He doesn't excel, but doesn't outright suck either. If you needed the ninja version of Kain, here we are.
Gekkou is the true fighter of the ninja group... but that also means he's simply dumber than them all (he looks like a nice guy). His magic is barely "passable", but then again, you could say the same for Tsukinowa (but at least he's wicked fast). Axes seems to be his specific weapon of choice.. and it doesn't look like shields are an option, so you can kinda justify his existence, compared to like Cid... except he gets better evasive armor... but not a good enough Agility to take advantage of it (which is a real downside). A true front row requirement, unlike the other characters that can get away with being in the back row. He does have very good HP growth as compensation.
Izayoi is a good substitute healer as far as I can tell, but not a true White Mage replacement.
I love, and yet hate how the game decides to rearrange the characters for you after adding them into your party. Sometimes its nice, but my alignment ALWAYS revolves on predictable turn distribution and how preemptive attacks affect order. On the other hand, the damage selection always seems to be very biased to the middle guy (through emulation bugs IMO), so I end up leaving Edge there.
Speaking of Edge, he's the best Ninja period (he's the original master after all). He's very much like what he was in FF4, but probably with better SPR growth. Having most of the useful spells cannot be ignored.
There's so many bands for the ninjas... they are potent I think...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 02, 2012, 02:38:18 AM
Playing through Edge's Challenge Dungeon, it seems to be a simple concept. It is simply a race to the end. So, it means a shitload of running away or kicking ass efficiently.
I'll briefly go over a few things about the bands in this party, as this has the most influence to success.
Wild Moon - This is simply hitting all monsters on the field with a combined force of Edge and Tsukinowa. I think it's just an average of both characters damages... heavily boosted when the Attack Power phase is in effect. Considering this is the fastest to execute, it speeds up battles significantly if the damage is right. It's a goto band for easier battles. Note: It ignores the elemental properties of the weapons, but I'm not sure if it is affected by row (with regards to weapons that ignore row). It probably is affected by row.
Frozen Moon Dance - If you're played Chrono Trigger, than this should remind you of Ice Sword. That's what it is! It's not too useful unless the target is weak vs Ice... and it's only a solo target. Likely to be affected by row.
Gale Twin Break - It's a curious attack, as it does damage every monster on the field. However, all damage is not equal. It focuses on ONE monster, and then the other monsters essentially get an aftershock, which is usually less painful. This is a decent attack ONLY if you aren't going to trigger HP or physical based counters. Nothing good will come of it. It might not be affected by row, since Jump itself ignores row. The damage dealt seems to be close to just double what Edge does normally for the primary target. Damage is odd, and could simply be "spread" from the amount of damage dealt to the initial monster (the initial monster is the one that takes the most damage). Of course, this is effectively random. Useful if you need to deal double damage to one monster instantly.
Gale Rush - 12MP each for a multi-targeted Haste. If this is the only reason you add Tsukinowa (who is pretty damn fast) and Zangetsu (so you get Jump), this is a winning combo.
Blazing Moon Ring - Hey, did you remember Ice Sword? Well, this is effectively Fire Sword, but stronger! I don't know why this is stronger, outside of the fact that Flame is stronger than Flood, spellwise. Not a bad alternative to Gale Twin Break... and I don't think it consumes the ammo... just the "command".
Phantom Lightflies - I looked at this initially and thought it was kinda cool, but seemed impractical. However, it works very well for as a counter to a specific type of attack. The Chimera Brain is a very fucking annoying monster. The first thing it does is do that current HP ice elemental attack against all the characters. This bloody well hurts. This spell is specific to countering it. It is powered by three aspects... HP being lowered, and Gekkou, who is slow and not the brightest, will take the most damage... and his HP pool is LARGE. This band will effectively heal HP equal to damage dealt to both characters in the band (Izayoi and Gekko) and split that towards all the characters plus something like 25% or some fixed number that I haven't quite figured out yet. The additional number might just be how much Izayoi would heal with her normal healing spell (which then is split to all characters). This is VERY useful under the specific circumstance. Don't expect it to heal a lot, but it will heal enough to avoid potion turns.
Wheel of Elements - If you know that all the monsters on the field have some elemental weakness (this includes Wind elemental, I think), this spell is for you. It does work vs a number of enemies, but beware of the monsters that have high magic defense. It's then just a waste.
Advent of Phoenix - ONLY useful if the monsters are weak vs Fire. The actual problem with this band is that is locks up every character for a glorified fire spell. The only good, but potentially annoying feature is the entire... speech. When monsters have high magic defense, you really really want to cry about this band.
Also, I believe Heal Pill has a spell power of about 100 or so. It is powered by INT, so Edge's version is naturally stronger than Izayoi, and certainly Tsukinowa... but in reverse order, they characters are faster at casting it (through natural AGI growth).
I have not used Heal Salve enough, but it's probably good enough to be a single targeted version of Curaga. I will look into the numbers soon.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 03, 2012, 02:22:48 AM
Alright... I'm trying to simply grind for more Giant Gloves for the whole team. Unfortunately, the "best equipment" for the ninjas tend to eat any sort of magic defense that they barely hold onto.
Medusa Arrows... are very disappointing. They simply inflict gradual petrify. Lame. Angel Arrows are probably the best bet at this point.
There are some simple rules for myself when going through the challenge dungeon.
1) Run away if the monster or the group is tougher than you. Sometimes it's better to save that time.
2) Run away if the monster drops are pathetic. The Skulldier based monsters come to mind.
3) If you actually plan on fighting them, make sure you are able to kill them all within at most 2 complete party turns. If your battle can be dealt with "Auto Battle" or just holding the A button down, the better.
4) Wild Moon is your friend. Use it early and pretty much often. It'll clear out most of the enemies. DO NOT USE IT if there's one monster on the field, unless it's like those cat monsters (they'll kill you if you don't kill them first)
5) Wheel of Elements tends to clear elementally weak monsters efficiently. Not too many groups fall into that.
6) Use items for healing instead of Ninjutsu - you need all the MP you can hold onto.
7) Avoid counters and long animation attacks like the plague. If you fail to kill the Lamia, the animation for Lust itself takes like 2-3 seconds. It helps to weaken the monster in advance whenever possible w/o triggering its counter. The bats are a plague on your run... better off running away from them.
So, I think the basic Ninjutsu magic breaks down like this: Heal Pill - 100 Spell Power (could be 92 or 96) - more effective than Cura, but remember the limited INT Heal Salve - 256 Spell Power (could be 250 or something like that, maybe even 288) - there's good reason why it looks like Curaja, limited INT will limit overall healing (treat it more like Curaga from a White Mage) Blitz - 48 Spell Power, can kill elementally weak monster instantly, like the PSP's Bug monster (it looks like the Waterbug) Flame - 64 Spell Power - only because Gekkou is not so smart Flood - 32 Spell Power - no split damage modifier, since it targets all monsters Gale - 64 Spell Power - since Tsukinowa isn't that bright either
When you use Phantom Lightflies as a counter to the Chimera Brain's Blazing Cold attack, it will heal half the damage that was taken, assuming all characters started off at full HP. Remember that healing increases as both characters take damage. So if you take the average of 900 or so damage from the attack, you will heal everyone 450. That's better than nothing and it does help to have the other two characters in critical after the Chimera Brain's attack.
If a monster is strong against a certain elemental, the damage dealt will be close to half as much at it could have been done (assuming the moon phase does not affect the attack properties). When using Frozen Moon Dance and Blazing Moon Ring vs the Chimera Brain, the damage dealt was reflected as such. When using Wheel of elementals, every elemental outside of Wind, reduced the damage collectively, so the damage dealt was 1/8 of the normal damage (= 1/2 * 1/2 * 1/2).
I read somewhere that Advent of Phoenix is affected by HP loss, which doesn't make it as bad, but it still has the same pro-Fire elemental damage limitation.
Wild Moon is effectively the combined attack of Edge and Tsukinowa times 3/4 (basically a 25% reduction of the combined attack), targeted at all of the monsters. It's great if you are targeting more than one monster... not so much when it is just one.
A great combo when engaging the Chimera Brain, is to use Gale Rush, followed by Phantom Lightflies after the ice attack. You are then better prepared to kick the monster's ass. However, the bigger issue IMO is that you have been collecting a lot of elementally based weaponry (Gaia's Hammer [fire], Cherry Blade [fire], Flame Spear) that does not help your cause. The alternative is to keep using the older weapon... or just plan on using other non-elemental or non-Fire/Water/Lightning bands). Gale Twin Break is actually optimal here as I think it allows Edge to deal some additional damage through Jump.
Trident does not have the Mech property, thus making it usefully limited in Zangesu's mini-story.
I forgot that Gekko's Shuriken command is like Throw - it ignores row, so load up on buying the weapons if you need him there. I guess that's good news (I know that all Ninja characters can equip a Boomerang type weapon, but since they are not all ambidextrous, it isn't that great offensively speaking).
The Malboro isn't too bad, using Gale Rush, followed by Frozen Moon Dance + Shuriken, or Blazing Moon Ring + Illusion (pray it works) is pretty effective. I like Blazing Moon Ring for its non-use of the actual item.
:edit: Blitz kinda seems to work like Curaja, in that the instant death effect (though, I wonder if Death resistance affects this) requires the spell to be single targeted. The comparison to Curaja is that the full HP aspect requires you to target one character.
The Behemoth is mostly the same, but it seems to counter elemental spells and bands like the Frozen Moon Dance and Blazing Moon Ring with Maelstrom (it doesn't react to Wild Moon or Gale Twin Break). It's great that Phantom Lightflies heals well (1000HP, with all characters at level 40).
Gale Twin Break probably isn't that great vs one monster, as the Human Kite (Jump) command and Edge's regular attack would do better. I'm not sure I like this band unless the collateral damage to other monsters is worthwhile (it's only good if they have low HP it seems).
:edit: Some equipment notes: Goblin Mask - +3 AGI, +3 INT, +3 SPR - if you only wanted a smarter ninja... Mist Wrap - +5 AGI, +45% evasion - literally built for speed... probably best on Gekkou since he needs all the help he can get speed-wise and defensively Treasure Hunter - maybe it's the broken RNG related to emulation, but it doesn't seem to make a difference - I'm sure it is somewhat useful when it working
Kotetsu+Chakrum and Wing Edge+Ashura should allow you to deal the same damage with Edge and Tsukinowa.
Some additional notes: 1) To improve the speed run, fail speed runs that are for treasure grabs should attempt to collect as many of the monster-chests early. Getting the 2 special chests per floor will improve your future runs.
2) If you are on a true speed run, learn to pick up treasure that is not too out of your way. If they are completely out of the way, don't bother, especially if you're collected the monster-chests. It's worth getting the occasional Manji Shuriken (twice as strong as the regular Shuriken).
3) Learn where the intentional fights are. All of the unavoidable battles obviously change the monster frequency (and it seriously does work). The worst/best case may be collecting both monster frequency changes in one direction. I can only imagine if you double down on the increased monster frequency (although, it might be beneficial on the 3rd Floor because of the monsters that have good drops). Monsters barely show up (if ever) when you double down on the decreases monster frequency (I've experienced that).
4) The direct shortcuts on the 2nd and 3rd Floors are probably more counterproductive than anything on a speed run. It simply relies on luck - you are better off with a controlled/normal environment.
5) It's worth getting the healing on the 4th Floor before you finish the level. You need all the MP you can get for the Bands.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 04, 2012, 01:55:41 AM
Completed Porom's Tale - it felt like completing DK Cecil's journey up Mt. Ordeals, except w/o DK Cecil, and with Bows that have a min accuracy of 75% (even the lowly Bow has that much accuracy). All I did was grind for money (and essentially getting levels for the two mages). The Black Mage surprisingly gets the better stats, despite having less HP (what is the deal with having 30 less HP, but getting 15 more MP?) It sucks to have the White Mage stuck @ 15 Agility. Porom is a better version of the White Mage, although by comparison, her stats would naturally be inferior to it... but having more than enough levels will compensate for it.
From the monster battles, I've already picked up a Headband and Giant Gloves. Well, that was easy. Go generous RNG!
The "clone" Palom and Rydia for this tale are... just meh? I guess you find out why Rydia's MP pool is supposed to be huge. Sylph is a great summon for her small part of the tale (kill one target and heal everyone, how's that for being epic).
It's easy to nice how "new monsters" were added to the game... at least since Edge's Tale (the mini-tales, specifically starting with Mt. Ordeals). They did the same again... so I'll give credit for that, since there's not much to really add, outside of mixing it up.
It would've been nice if the Elder had Holy. I mean.... why not?
Porom's Pray is simply a multitargeted Cura (split healing math enforced). I guess that's better than the afterthought that was Rosa's Pray.
:edit: Done with pretty much the Challenge Dungeon... it felt like "wham, bam, thank you ma'am". Shortest overall tale period.
Jump really does seem to change targeting for monsters... for whatever the reason. Despite the main target is usually Porom (being in the middle slot), it's just odd the RNG seems to kick in like that...
The Special "Cat" monster loves to use its Lightning based attack on the Black Mage (or specifically, whoever is in the bottom spot).
The White Dragon battle is lame... maybe I need to wait longer for something to happen, but being threatened by Slow is... not scary at all.
Some tips: 1) Since Porom is required to use her magic for the old man, you are better off emptying out the White Mage's magic, if you plan to heal. If you wish to conserve MP for battle, then buy more items. I do not get how the old man needs multiple Esuna casts... as if he had a terminal disease. At least with the multiple Cura, you could imagine tons of HP to deal with. It must be that he is obsessive compulsive or something.
2) I hate the item taker. I should just refuse out of spite. Ether and Remedies are limited and you can't even buy any.
3) It is best to start or head towards the southwest corner... because the exit is at the northwest corner and the map design works out like that. I hate the White Mage spirit thing.
4) Because of #2 and #3, you are at least allowed to skip at most (?) helping one of the people there... occasionally #2 will trip you out (not having enough Ether or Remedies) and #3 (not having enough time to find the spirits). You will still get the best treasure.
5) It is OK to fight monsters during this time. Avoid fighting the group with the Lamia (pretty hard early on), Flan (waste of magic), and Blood Bats (too annoying and time consuming). All the other fights that resemble groups from the Lodestone Cave from the original game are easy enough with the Great Bow+Holy Arrow setup with your characters (most of those monsters are weak vs Holy). The special "Cat" monster group can be worth engaging occasionally. Fighting the special "cat" monster with its own elemental is... strange enough. There is one "new" formation that involves a Goblin Captain, Sorceress, and Horseman... you just pray a Ether drop is coming (well, you have a better shot at a Tent or Cottage).
6) The hardest monster is the Evil Dreamer. Stop is your best friend.
:edit: I was fortunate to get a White Tail... but Dark Kain hasn't gotten to level 40 yet, so I'll try to continue going after some Angel Arrows for Porom.
I forgot to mention that Izayoi is crazy.. but that's just hilarious. It's kinda only fitting.
This should have been apparent to me... the special monster in Porom's Dungeon is a "thundercat". How did I not get that reference initially?
Doesn't Porom look familiar to someone... like Maria/Celes in FF6? The sad part is that they gave her some additional background... kinda like Terra... the "will I love anyone" theme. I guess it depends on what she finds... it's not looking so hot at the moment.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 04, 2012, 10:52:02 PM
Just want to let you know I absolutely love these logs! No one analyzes gameplay in this manner anymore sadly, so it's a refreshing change of pace.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 05, 2012, 01:42:04 AM
I try... I can't say it's all exciting new info (there are plenty of walkthroughs with already good ideas).
OK, back to Edward's Tale. I didn't get to do too much sadly (finally got Harley into the party).
For the sake of duh, those initial rings/relics that Edward+Harley initially starts with doesn't appear to be a coincidence. Too bad it limits you defensively (well, mainly in the magic defense area, since that is what you lose). All these rings feel like FF5 redux, in that the arm carries the special stuff.
Does Piercing Sight work? Maybe I'm forgetting rule #1 about magic vs physical resistance. Being able to absorb AND be weak to an elemental means that magic-wise, you can't use that elemental, but physically, you can. See Dark Elf/Dark Dragon.
Harley's initial weapon sucks... which is why I'm not ever fond with the early whips. Low hit rate/accuracy makes for a painful attacking experience, which makes the Bow+Arrow more appealing. When Rydia normally reaches a 4 attack multiplier, at least you have a shot with the classic Whip landing hits, despite them being painfully weak (which is why the Dancing Dagger shares a lot of the workload until the Tower of Babil-Eblan side).
It is kinda ironic that I start with 5000GP, only to still not have enough for equipment I like. No, I don't mean the Iron Armor crap set. The Bronze Breastplate and Feathered Cap is overall better than the Iron equivalent, based on evasion alone (and magic defense). I mean, compare the following (note, I didn't bother getting the magic evasion #s): Feathered Cap - 2 defense, 3 magic defense (+6% evasion), 330GP Iron Helm - 5 defense, 1 magic defense (0% evasion), 800GP Bronze Helm (initial) - 3 defense (0% evasion)
Now if you didn't get a headache reading that... look at this: Bronze Armor (initial) - 4 defense, 1 magic defense (0% evasion) Iron Armor - 7 defense, 2 magic defense (0% evasion), 1000GP Bronze Breastplate - 4 defense, 2 magic defense (+15% evasion), 450GP
As much as I like grinding and getting money, I like evasion. It's not as useful until you get a greater defense multiplier (think Cid with his slowness), but when you do, it makes up for the loss of defense. For half the price (well, it's cheaper than half), you can get a decent upgrade to whatever crap/junk you have on the soldiers/guards you get. Why pay more when you get less?
I think most of Edward's Bardsongs are the same on the offense, outside of them being multitargetable. On your party, it's Cure, Cura, Haste, and Protect+Shell (favorably multtargetable). The spell power is based on Edward's stats, which seem to be more Spirit biased unlike the original game (he was kinda equally favorable on both stats, although his level 70+ stats favored Spirit IIRC)
Bardsong's usually pretty good, except when Edward fails to produce anything. This continues to disappoint me at times.
Edward's classic harps are probably better than the initial Silver Harp you can buy. You find one of those compatible monsters in the dungeon for the weapon (Silver Harp), whereas you can put every other monster to sleep, which is probably better.
The Adamant Turtle (or whatever it is called) probably needs its bestiary info fixed. Since this is the only version used in this chapter, it uses the same item drop info like the original. However, these are modded to drop the Bronze Tails (which another monster should be doing the same). I'm kinda not complaining because I'm getting those drops like candy. I get the feeling I'll make a note of the other monster pretty soon.
The great thing about Edward is the harp magic (which is simply a weapon with an added status effect). Too bad there was only two harps. He was really handy and this time around he seems to be more or less the same. A lesser known fact is that the original harp did not have the back/ignore row property. This was actually added to only the SNES versions of the game (FF4 Easytype simply got a hit rate/acc boost). This doesn't appear to have changed in the PSP version of FF4 (let alone the GBA port) outside of TAY. It was so much more appreciable when I played FF2US... Of course, FF4A (GBA port) added back row compatible harps (although, the back row bugs that I've screamed about in the pre-PSP ports reared its ugly head then).
:edit: I'm was fortunate to get a free Silver Tail. I wonder if there's a treasure drop "overlay" in Edward's Tale. That would make a lot more sense. This "overlay" simply adds the Bronze/Silver Tail probabilities to the drops (fairly low, though the emulation seems to give me these tails like candy), but it makes life easier for you. I got a Bronze Tail from the Sahagin-Alligator combo and the Silver Tail from the Centepede+Desert Sahagin combo... so I think it's not enemy specific, but Edward encounters specific.
I should just write how the entire Ghoul/Spirit resistance is completely overrated, starting with the Silver Armlet. Consider that the monsters you would primarily use this against, lead off their attack with magic. This amounts to having armor w/o any special properties. It's really that simple. Maybe I'll write an article on it, but ultimately, there's no point to adding properties to armor that have little to no impact long term.
The whole point of the Antlion journey is to show you that Edward can handle himself. Finally, he doesn't suck so much... now only if he would sing successfully 100% of the time.
The point of the "lame robbery attempt" is to give you a break from traversing the damned map again. At least the devs did you a favor...
Having Edward being able to kill, if not confuse things with an attack multiplier of 4, is incredible.
It's worth mentioning that Edward's INT+SPR growth is faster than his FF4 stats.... Harley's stat growth reminds me of Palom's, except with better SPR growth.
The Gil Band helps out a lot with the equipment upkeep... 2000 for the Silver Breastplate is a vast improvement over the Iron Armor it is replacing. The Beret is not that much cheaper. The low evasion (+4%), not so hot.
The Economical Ring is nice for Edward (+2 INT, +2 SPR), but it's somewhat heavy (+5% evasion).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 05, 2012, 11:13:48 AM
Interest info on the initial sets you can buy. As for your questions...
Piercing Sight does work, but only works on normal enemies (and seems to have a % chance to hit and miss, not sure what it's based on). It's a fun little skill but only works when you have another Actual mage in your party (and possibly then you could hit Dark elemental which you can just forget about exploiting it) It has a lot of potential, but the game never utilizes it properly sadly, I can confirm though that it effects both Magic and Physical Elements (Fire Sword and Firaga will both deal weakness damage, etc)
Every enemy in Edward's Tale has a chance to drop Bronze Tails (I think even Silver Tails) which is why there is no bestiary change. It seems to be a "global flag" so to speak.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 05, 2012, 11:44:01 AM
Piercing Sight does work, but only works on normal enemies (and seems to have a % chance to hit and miss, not sure what it's based on). It's a fun little skill but only works when you have another Actual mage in your party (and possibly then you could hit Dark elemental which you can just forget about exploiting it) It has a lot of potential, but the game never utilizes it properly sadly, I can confirm though that it effects both Magic and Physical Elements (Fire Sword and Firaga will both deal weakness damage, etc)
Well, there's no "miss" as far as I can tell, which doesn't exactly help me. The Beastiary item doesn't seem to provide additional info either.
It would've been nice to have an actual mage in the party to at least make people not think her skill is useless. At least let me know what weakness was added... that would be helpful.
Quote
Every enemy in Edward's Tale has a chance to drop Bronze Tails (I think even Silver Tails) which is why there is no bestiary change. It seems to be a "global flag" so to speak.
Well, I got a Silver Tail, so life is good. :tongue:
I forget what moon affects black magic negatively, but I saw Fire from the Soul monster miss... and it should never do that (it has a 100% spell hit rate) while Edward at the moment didn't have a magic evasion multiplier. This leads me to believe that this affects spell hit rate as well. Then again, I recall Stop not working so well during Porom's Challenge Dungeon during the same moon. So clearly, spell hit rate is "adjusted", not necessarily just spell power. I guess having a better stat (INT or the monster Magic stat) can compensate for the hit rate loss.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 05, 2012, 01:51:08 PM
With Piercing Sight, it won't show "Miss!" unless it's a boss monster. Otherwise it will show nothing. How you can tell if it worked is if there is a bright flash. The color of the flash is the weakness that was added (this should be fairly self-explanatory but just for information's sake...)
Red - Fire Blue - Ice Yellow - Thunder White - Holy Purple - Dark
I don't Think you can make an enemy weak to Air. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 05, 2012, 04:42:32 PM
Sounds good... I still have to test it.
The Challenge Dungeon... would arguably be called an asylum. It would've been nice if the monsters involved dropped more money (like, have more Gil Bird encounters). It also discourages completionists (trying to get 150k for all the treasures, is simply insane). It probably might just be worthwhile getting 60k in total (best and worst treasure). I got a Dry Ether on 10k, whereas I got an Ether on 20k (Ether is 10k normally, Dry Ether is 50k normally). Go for the bang for the buck.
There is some oddity that targets Guard C (bottom slot) more often than not, and Guard B (middle slot) in some instances. The Bandit and a few other monsters like hitting on Edward (between top and middle slot). Go figure.
The special toad monster reminds me of the early toads in the game. It makes sense if you can get Edward to silence them, but that just means you'll just be attacked directly (starting with Guard B). It makes sense to just keep the toad casting the spell on you than it attacking you. It's easier to acquire Maiden's Kiss than buying the Remedy to heal it.
I hope the Ogre drops a few Giant's Gloves... it would make battling easier.
Edward's offensive singing is probably a lot more beneficial... as neutering the monsters through Sleep or Confuse allows you to live longer.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 05, 2012, 11:36:16 PM
OK, here's my analysis of the dungeon...
1) Avoid the Chocobos like the plague. It's like playing in a casino (in fact, this dungeon is that and then some). For the chance of getting a small bonus, you have a greater chance of finding the evil Chocobo that steals your money (and talking to it can just drain your money if you're that bored). Why play the odds? 10k loss at any point is stupid.
2) Since the Gil Bird is a given, it is not a bad thing to become an expert dungeon spelunker... which means searching for every nook and cranny for items and money. Since this isn't timed, there is no real negative consequence. Buying Spider Silk in advance helps.
3) It does help to have 10k (grind for some in the waterway if need be) as you need that extra bit for a "just in case" moment.. which will be explained in a moment.
4) Invest in the guys who need money. If you don't get it back, then that's 15k total down the drain... but if you do invest, you are ~30k richer. Risk-reward says you can make up 15k easier through fighting monsters that you want to grind against anyways.
5) In the 3-monster toll section, you have the worst case chance of losing 10k in the deal. If the monster in the back always drops its item, you essentially will be able to make up that money for the most part. Not a huge loss IMO. You benefit when you get the probably low-loss deal (it's a 2/3 probability, so you are still likely to get what you want).
6) The 5-monster toll section should be visited last. It is probably the place to collect some of what you need (the loans, and possibly the pig).
7) I got one of the rare items in the 20k chest (I did another 50k+20k+10k run). I did have some extra money to spare from the guys that were loaned money (30k from guys I loaned). Spending 10k for the unlikely rare chest is not too hard to accomplish anyways. You just need to make sure that the 50k chest is first bought off. That is the goal after all.
Why does this dungeon feel like a casino? Really...
:edit: Third run completed - Obtained Level Band (50k) and Silver Apple (10k)... didn't quite have the money for more, but it doesn't really hurt to get the 10k chest based on this. In my first run, the 50k chest was an Elixir. Second run had the Ice Whip in the 50k chest (Exorcism Suit in 20k chest, 10k chest had Silver Hourglass).
The 10k loan guy on the 5th run refused to pay up. The girl did however (so, the girl is probably a bit more reliable).
I actually hate him (the loan guy) when he appears in the first room of the dungeon (the one that is past the door the girl that explains the dungeon to you).
The Whisperweed item sells for under 1k, so that's paying for convenience (since you pick it up in the path leads to the guy that wants it). So, prepare for disappointment in advance.
The Flamebeast specifically counters with its Blaze attack when its HP reaches 500 or so (after you attack it). If you time it right, Harley's Ice Whip can cripple that attack (if not kill it outright) when you time it correctly. Blaze is dependent on the monster's current HP (it's either 1/4 or 1/5 damage based on that, probably the latter since it is mainly based on the original).
The Belphegor monster is not a threat... it doesn't even resemble the monster in the Interlude at all... besides, you should have Silver Breastplates across the the board.
It's kinda of amusing to see some randomness from the monster... as the Bandit after 2 physical attacks (that the monster deals) casts any one of the level 1 elementals (Fire, Blizzard, Thunder)... too bad it's a joke monster IMO.
Muse Harp has 90% acc and it literally an unholy killing machine. Ice Whip has pretty high acc (I'll need to double check what that is) and Harley magically becomes stronger than Edward (Edward will catch up eventually). Accuracy seems to be @ 70% or so.
Exorcism Gown is heavy... for whatever the reason (0% evasion). +2 INT and +2 SPR is meh, although resistance to the same thing that the classic Ice Shield is can be a bonus I guess.
Professor Robe is much nicer than the Gown... it's not heavy (+10% evasion) and it's great for magic users (+5 INT and +5 SPR). It seems that it can be equipped by everyone (like the Exorcism Gown).
Too bad neither of the two characters can equip the Giant's Gloves.
The annoying Toad monster casts and reacts with Toad (it is much more vicious while under Silence status)... so it may make sense to let Harley have at it (should be an easy kill with the Ice Whip) or Edward to lead off to potentially reverse Toad status...
:edit: I want to point out that the next JPCSP should have some improvements performance-wise, but there will probably be some graphical issues (when you compare play to the real PSP).
On my sixth run.. I got the Officer's Cap (50k) and a Light Curtain (10k).
The Officer's Cap has 7% evasion (or was it 6?) and provides decent stat boosts (+3 STR, +3 STA). It's kinda in between the Green Beret... but it has better overall magic defense... Seems like anyone can equip it...
A few more notes on the dungeon: Expect to spend 3K on the elevator. If you have to goto the 3rd floor, just use the back passages on either side of the 2nd floor main area stairs. It's worth the trek for the money instead of spending money to go up one floor. The 4th floor is only accessible by elevator anyways.
I bet the treasure algo for buying the chest is simple: 50k - guaranteed good stuff (until you pick them all up) everything else - anything goes (you have an equally likely chance of picking up good stuff than something random, until the good stuff is gone)
:edit: Finally cleaned it out, but I want to finish the level grind on Edward+Harley.
Last useful 50k item was the Soma Drop on the next run... then junk all the way (did two runs since last edit).
So far, the number of times the 10k loan guy refused to give me back anything was twice (or was it thrice?). Considering that your gain is between 15k to 30k (50% to 200% of what you paid in), it's not so bad.
The woman who needed the 5k loan seems to always pay up, comes with 10k to 15k (100% to 200% of your original investment)... so be nice.
Special item values (not exactly close, but whatever): Gil Bird (10k - 15k) Bard's Lyre (5k - 8k) Adamant Pig (8k - 9k) Whisperweed Seed (500 - 850) << sucks either way Poet's Notebook (don't remember, was like 3K or 5K?) - only did this once, very unreliable
It might be an idea to bring more money into the situation to get all the chests in one go, but you'd probably get two rare items at best... it's still not worth it.
I haven't used Feast of the Land a lot, but the band seems to be similar to a multitargeted Curaga... w/o costing you actual money. I don't think it uses Harley's Spirit to make it better/worse, but simply Edward's.. need to play around with this more.
Non-rare treasures seem to be limited to Silver Hourglass, Ether, Dry Ether, Remedy, Solar Curtain
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 07, 2012, 01:31:12 PM
Solar Curtain? What? I hope that was a typo of Lunar Curtain or I missed some really rare item.
Either way that Challenge Dungeon almost broke my spirit. Seems that you got it done in a timely manner. Oh by the way did you pick up a Golden Tail from the Tail Trader in the Waterway? I didn't see you mention it so I wasn't entirely sure if you had or not.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 07, 2012, 01:44:08 PM
Looks like I'm pretty much done with Edward's Challenge Dungeon... some notes..
1) The Officer's Hat has 7% evasion. It does allow Edward to get the extra multiplier he needs...
2) Finally got the Poet's Notebook or whatever... got it sold for 1K. Not worth the time to pay attention to this.
3) This dungeon also reminds me of FF7's mini-games (mainly the Coliseum or whatever it was called). The only difference is that you can actively throw away your winnings.
4) Gil Toss does not seem to scale linearly, it's more exponential (on a upward curve). At a lower level (I should have tested this at lower levels), the attacks were a joke. At level 20 to 30 or so, the damage was a little under 10 times her level. Being closer to level 40, the damage was closer to 15 times her level. One wonders how much damage Gil Toss will do at the highest of levels.
5) Gil Toss ignores defense. This kinda sounds useful against Flans, except Flans don't give enough money back to make it worthwhile (maybe EXP would make more sense there).
6) Feast of the Land might actually combine the Spirit of both characters.. or it may actually scale with GP Rain's level scheme. At the lower 30s, it healed like 600HP to all characters... at level 40, it heals 900HP. If you combine the Spirit between both characters, then it does look like a high Spirit based Curaga. If you factor in the damage that Gil Toss scales with, then it's the effectiveness of Gil Toss added with split Cura in a healing form.
7) Gil Toss doesn't seem to change when there's 1 or more than 1 monster. So, split damage is a non factor.
:edit: In response to the post, I meant the Light Curtain (item names of unworthy note escape me). I couldn't quite remember the word.
I've already traded in for the tail (technically, I could get another if I wanted to).
Also, one of the lame random treasures can be the Unicorn Horn.
There's a tendency in the treasures in the 1st Floor side paths (the stairs to the lower floors). On the treasure raid on the lower right side, you will very likely get elemental attack items of the -ara types (or was it just basic, it doesn't matter, since I never bother with the stuff). On the boss side (the upper left), the treasures tend to be with the elemental Fangs.
The lame Poet's Notebook chest tends to have a High Potion. Meh.
The Whisperweed Seed's other item drops tend to have the Bronze Hourglass and Spider's Silk (and maybe a few others).
:edit: Since the last tale is Kain's, I'm working on Ceodore's tale now.
It's nice and easy to gain EXP when you have fewer people around. Damn you Royal Soldiers and Edge's other ninjas. :tongue:
The Thunder Dragon is a lot more tame than the original. Far more manageable... but on a surprise attack, it will hurt (the Lightning attack will occur after 2 attacks).
The Plate Mail hurts more than it helps. Since it is heavier than normal armor, you take a lot more raw damage, that could be avoided through. The older Chainmail is better for that reason alone.
The Adamantite Golem is not as threatening if you attack from the back row. Although it will take a bit longer to kill him, you are more likely to survive the tri-attack.
I'm not really threatened by that larvae based monster in the challenge dungeon... I don't know what threat it provides.... it's name ends with luca or something :tongue: It gets killed by Kain pretty easily.
The simple band that Kain and Ceodore has sucks at killing flan (2 damage, which is the sum of both of their attacks).
The Flan Ring doesn't seem that special... other than the small racial defense... but it does have +20% evasion.
Nice to see Ceodore gain a 3x magic evasion, probably faster than Cecil in the original game (and probably in TAY as well).
Note: I forgot to mention that the Flamebeast doesn't actually counter @ low HP, but it tends to be reasonably quick after 2 or 3 physical attacks it makes.
Also, I'm not picked up tails in Ceodore's tale (should be easy with its frequency, but unfortunately large drop list), Yang's tale (should be even easier - monster frequency is high, small drop list), and Edge's tale (Behemoth's frequency is very low AND has a large drop list).
Quick edit later... :edit:
Noctiluca is the monster that I forgot.
I've collected all Ceodore's treasure in the challenge dungeon... I just need to get to level 50 (that wasn't my original intent, but it's going pretty easily). At the moment, I'd like to grind for the tail, but also get a headband from the Ogres (need the extra strength.. the defense will improve through the evasion over the Mythril Helm).
:edit: Collected the Blue Tail... I'll play Kain's Tale later today. I'll try to grind the Red Tail out (Yang's Tale) and maybe a Rune Staff from Rydia's Tale.
Awaken seems to be more of a desperation move than anything. If only there was a band to heal that damage quickly... or a "revenge" type of band that deals damage based on his HP loss.
:edit: Collected the Red Tail. It almost always seems that Auto-Battle helps with the RNG in your favor... kinda like those TAS runs with people exclusively messing with the RNG with their input and Wii RNG abuse for TAY. FF4 certainly can already be abused by that.
I want to note that during Edward's Challenge Dungeon, I didn't really have to use MP or do much healing outside of potions. It's kinda lame in that sense. Other tales kinda make it more prominent to use MP through healing or bands.
Focus seems to make Yang take increased damage (seems to take in 50% more damage than normal). I wonder if it is dropping his evasion.... it probably a potential effect vs magic as well...
I will not try to get the Rune Staff in Rydia's Tale... it's hard to want to obtain something you can't equip and play with (outside of the tails).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 08, 2012, 07:28:41 PM
Started Kain's Tale...
One thing that isn't quite obvious is who the real Kain was that appeared near the save point that saved Porom... because it would have been easy to confuse them since the first part was the original Kain, and its "profile" is the same as the bad Kain (for this tale aspect specifically), so it can be confusing if you hadn't done Porom's Tale.
At level 50, all monsters are easy. Even then, they are still too damn easy.
It is worth noting in the context of the original game that Kain starts with the equipment he had when he rejoins you in the Tower of Zot.
Original Kain or Dark/Mirror Kain has more INT that the Hooded Man/Real Kain. Real Kain has a lot more SPR... which is similar to how he was in the original FF4 portions. Sometimes you must overcome darkness with more Spirit, but evil is a lot more devious...
I don't know why I need all this spare extra Mythril equipment when you can pick up most of it in Ceodore's Challenge Dungeon. Mythril Shield from the Armadillo is all you need for Kain (well, in addition to the Mythril Armor you pick up).
Bone Wrist is a major upgrade, since Spirit/Ghoul resistance as I've mentioned before is... close to useless. This is the only way (at this point) that Kain can get undead resistance. Cedore should be living off his father's Paladin armor (which is still great for Spirit boosting). Mythril vs the Paladin armor is... minimal gains at best with the Mythril. Unfortunately, it is heavy (0% evasion) and the Giant's Gloves are still more useful.
This must be Medusa/Stone Mountain... there's barely undead here.
Blood Sword is a classic. Too bad the racial nerf may have crippled this weapon's usefulness vs Flan. Even the Flandango/Index Finger would need a buff because of the racial modifier nerf. Still a solid weapon at this stage of the game.
Slumber Sword is still overpowered (magic-wise), but I kinda wish I had to fight for it. It was far harder when you had Tellah, Yang, and Cid in the original to obtain (still easy though).
Stoneblade is an upgrade... and yet not an upgrade. Increasing the attack power by 20 from whatever you have at the moment is an improvement, but the accuracy (66% hit rate) will still reduce damage to whatever you had before (It's kinda like a Legend/Mythgraven Sword vs Ancient Sword debate). The good part is that it is non-elemental and are the only viable things to kill flans. Unfortunately, you need to successfully apply this weapon 4 times (or 3 times and just wait it out) to kill them. Oh well, I have a pair, so this should go twice as fast. It took me an hour and a half (combined time) to pick a pair up.
Cross Helm is heavy (0% evasion), but blind protection is nice.
I will say a few about Spears/Lances... they are usually much better (as few as you usually get in the game) than their Sword counterparts... if only for the Wind elemental attribute. Ceodore can use them (just not the Hooded Man, for obvious reasons) and as an endgame option, they are not so hot due to raw attack power. Its best combo is, and always has been, when it has been used with Jump. That has always been why Kain is generally stronger then Cecil. Kain's above average stat growth in the original is meant to help Jump improve dramatically, and it shows. So it sucks to say that the usefulness of the weapon is only based on the application of the weapon's usage... so long term, it's not so hot for Ceodore or Golbez (which I believe can equip them as well) to have a spear/lance equipped late game (Golbez will be expanded upon later when I actually use him). I guess Cecil in some ways wanted to teach his son about Kain and Dragoons early on (it would probably be better than Awaken, by far).
:edit: I would like to note that Undead protection was limited to spell casters for the most part (excluding ninjas), so it's worth noting that this seems to be a fighter type of armor.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 09, 2012, 11:35:21 AM
This was short... getting Dark/Mirror Kain to level 50 is... not worth it. Got him to level 40 and facepalmed at the fact that it would've been limited to 50...
Cid's starting equipment sucks. At least he gets crack from the STR bonuses, but the Horned equipment set really sucks. I eventually picked up another set of Giant's Gloves and the Headband should suffice for now. Already replaced the armor with the Mythril Armor (and then Ice Armor).
Slow characters... at least it makes Ceodore and Kain so much easier.
It's nice the the Holy Dragoon aspect of Kain allows him to equip the Paladin armor... too bad most of that armor isn't that useful at this point.
The Dragoon Spear provides +3 to all stats, plus being Holy elemental... it doesn't seem to have any anti-Undead or anti-Spirit/Ghoul extras, but most of them are weak vs Holy in the first place.
The Grey Coeurl in Devil's Road isn't too hard... but I don't quite know what triggers his Blaster attack, but that's a non-issue. Lots of HP.. great reason to use Cross Slash Prime... it feels like a 50% damage upgrade (it's still a combined attack) in addition to jacking up the MP cost.
Cross Slash Prime seems to apply status effects from weapons (not entirely sure of elemental attributes, but possible). I've had the Stoneblade on Ceodore and it seemed to be applied on the Grey Coeurl.
It's nice that the game found some elegant way of swapping out the weapon Kain has for his battle.
Some notes on some bands: Divine Heal - Feels like Curaja, w/o actually having the spell. Will need to look into this further
Rocket Launcher - not good enough vs Flan, will need to test further
X Chaser - It seems to increase damage through dealing something like a combo of Cid+Rosa's damage. A nice feature is that it has a good chance of instant death (applies death status, so it won't work on monsters resistant to death).
Saint Dive - I'm not entirely sure where the damage comes from or how it is derived, but it does ignore split damage and feels like a weaker version of Holy is applied. Think of it like a level 2 elemental version of Holy (based on the black magic spell power).
Aiming Thrust - I'm not entirely sure how much damage it is supposed to deal, but it deals double damage from what Kain would normally do, with a good chance of applying instant death (like X Chaser).
:edit: Blessing heals both HP and MP at a rate (average) close to 1/16 of the character's maxHP and maxMP.
Blind really does shut cripple the accuracy of a character. I haven't used enough magic with it, but it seems if acc is reduced by 3/4, or just set it to 0. It does require healing now... since it is really nasty.
A level 30-ish Dark Kain had problems attacking and jumping while blinded.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 10, 2012, 06:15:09 AM
Some more notes:
The Underground Waterway monsters mainly consists of new creations (well, at least with the palette swapping). This is actually great since lots of existing monsters and formations have been reused a bit... you might as well actually make it distinct at this point.
One of the monsters in that revised dungeon does apply poison... I figure it is the snake monsters.
The Fire Sword (and maybe of the elemental weaponry) is not that useful... so you will have to occasionally pick and choose if you plan on using elemental weapons (it makes you wish Yang was around).
The Chaos Lady (the dungeon specific monster) is a pushover. If you are efficient in killing, Doom is just not threatening...
Most of the monsters in Kain's Challenge Dungeon are generally a mixture of the Tower of Babil (Edge route) with some Summoners on a special floor... and then all the Sylph's Cave and Land of Summoned Monsters combos with creative rehashes. Unlike the original game, your equipment select limits your full defensive potential.
Like the original game, the Diamond Armlet is overrated and should always be a last resort to acquire lightning resistance for the spellcasters... It was key for Edge in the original... The Gold Hairband is the key option.
The Gold Hairband and the Luminous Robe was always a really powerful combo in the game. The both have lightning resistance, but the most important aspect was the racial resistance... Dragons for the Gold Hairband and Undead for the Luminous Robe. Of course, the Gold Hairband was more favorable to Rydia... but nonetheless, it provides what you need for the most part. Of course, the trifecta is the Rune Armlet for Mage protection. That usually covered all the racial resistances you needed in the end game (outside of the sole Giant and Mech, except the EvilMask never attacks physically).
Rosa looks too much like the White Wizard in FF1A... which is lame.
Continuing with tradition, Ceodore can equip some of the same wizard based equipment that Cecil could. The Luminous Robe may actually be better on Ceodore than Rosa... despite the fact Rosa would benefit more.. .but she gets the Gold Hairband, which covers what you need for the most part. Note that there aren't any undead in this dungeon... so that's not why you give it to him... the Ice Shield+lightning based armor combo is great... you get fire and lightning resistance.. all of which you really need in the dungeon. I've never been fond of the Diamond Gloves or the helmet... they suck compared to the armor and the shield.
The Thunder Dragon in this dungeon looks a lot more like the original FF4 version. Unfortunately, if you don't have ANY lightning protection, RUN THE HELL AWAY. Since its Thunderbolt attack is maxHP/2 (with randomness), a surprise attack will allow him to dish almost 4000HP raw damage, killing any character instantly. It's better to fight it when you have given lightning resistance to all characters... then again, the weaker version in Ceodore's version of the Mist Cave is at least twice as easy.
Blessing is not affected by the moon... which is nice (I forget if Pray is).
Cid's Risk Strike doesn't seem to work vs bosses... why bother with the command? It does seem to deal 2 times the damage when it works... but I don't like unreliability in commands if it doesn't work more often than not.
The Sledgehammer adds +5 STR, like Gaia's Hammer. I don't think it's that much of an improvement (like +10 attack power more than the Ogre Killer) when you lose the shield. Sure you will lose the shield later on when the stronger weapons become 2 handed only, but you need the Fire protection vs the Cursed Dragon and Lighting protection primarily against the Thunder Dragon. I guess you can figure out alternate ways of doing it through the diamond armor set, but doesn't allow for Cid to get to his full potential.
With regards to Cid, it's kinda nice to be able to take advantage of a shield... as much as he has evasion like a rock, it's vital as long as you are able to make him really strong, because he's unbearably slow.
Finally, a reason to use the Cross item. The boss on its 3rd consecutive counter attack uses a multitargeted Cross. This is very punishing since you have nothing to block it outside of Mystic Veils... which aren't even applicable to this dungeon or the characters at the moment. I mean there are two major options to killing the Curse Dragon... both options are specific to the "undead" version of the monster...
1) Just Jump with Kain. Since the counter is instant death (seemingly only to Kain), all you need to do is double down on a revive (the spell or item) and then some short healing (basic Rosa's Cura or Ceodore's Curaga will be enough). This may probably be the best option if you don't like what I'll say about the second option.
2) Let Kain do all the work... under Berserk. This allows Haste to be in use, since it goes away when Kain dies. This is preferable in all circumstances that don't affect the attack power negatively (just one of the moons will probably screw this up).
The Curse Dragon when physically attacked does the following (in the order of counter attacks): Doom - seems to love Kain due to RNG/emulation Multitargeted Firaga - hurts Rosa the most because she has no elemental resistance, whereas all the men have some part of the Ice Armor set available Multitargeted Curse - hurts Kain the most in this instance Dual-hit - seems to target Rosa, then Kain... I'm not sure if this is its natural attack or an actual counter Restart with Doom counter...
It's insanely easy when Kain does most of the work (if not all of it). Cid is best for using items and Rosa for healing... Ceodore could use Esuna, but that will remove Berserk, so you could set up Rosa to reapply it after Esuna. A Cross will allow you to avoid recasting Berserk.
It is really counterproductive for Cid and Ceodore to attack. Kain's Dragoon Lance is Holy elemental.. which is the weakness of the monster. The strange part is that the "undead" version of the monster isn't actually listed as undead (I'll need to actually see if that is the case). This is Kain's Challenge Dungeon after all...
:edit: It's fun when you silence those Mini Satana or Elder Treants and then proceed to put confuse status on them... you'll just end up causing them to attack you. Since the response to confuse status is casting magic, and silence causes all magic to be replaced with a regular attack... you'll see how this result came to be.
:edit: I think I was wrong about Saint Dive... since I was testing that on Flan. It seems to do Jump damage with a little bit of variation, and applies Holy elemental to the attack. It's not as much magic (it doesn't seem to be resisted by the Mad Ogre), but Flan do have high defense, which might explain the damage I got (though now, Rosa+Cid are at different levels now, so I will retest).
The Curse Dragon counters are based on the fact that Doom (the countdown) is applied to a character. It will keep attempting to apply Doom until a character is affected, and then it runs through its special attack cycle.
After the Dual-hit from the Curse Dragon, the last known attack is Dark Breath (IIRC, it's fire elemental and very likely based on the monster's HP). There may be more, but Doom's Coundown takes forever.
I had forgotten about the fact that Doom is reflectable. Yes, the spell that the infamous Fataleye/Ahriman uses is reflectable. I don't remember testing it in the PSP version (well, the aspect that it can be applied to a monster with the boss bit), but in TAY, it won't work. At least preventing it from working is the best thing you can do... So, it is beneficial if either Rosa or Ceodore (preferably both) is able to cast Reflect on Kain (and probably the others, since I figure the RNG is probably emulation related) to keep the Curse Dragon from doing nastier things. Its attempts to apply the status is crucial for you to not take any damage... but it is more crucial for the monster to be execute the other parts of the script.
The Obelisk Lance is probably the weapon of choice of Ceodore. The Dragoon Lance is still vital to Kain anyways. Although the Demon Slayer is a decent weapon, there shouldn't be any "Demons" outside of the Lamias that you will be fighting and the weaker creatures outside of Baron. You need weapons to annihilate the Thunder Dragon and other flying monsters and the Obelisk Lance is that weapon. Plus, it's the strongest of the bunch, with +5 STR to boot. Too bad the STR bonus doesn't really lead to an increased attack multiplier for either Ceodore or Kain... oh well.
The Elfin Bow is still effective vs Mages, despite that not being listed (like Rune Armlet's resistance to Mages). Strangely, Shell can be cast on all characters... unlike the Protect Staff's solo targeting. The Elfin Bow still retains +5 INT.
:edit: Some worthy notes:
Cross Slash Prime appears to be closer to a combined attack between Ceodore and Kain with doubled damage.
Saint Dive is like having a holy elemental Jump targeted to all. When used against Flan, it does nice damage, but it feels like reduced damage (like 1/4 to 1/2 less damage), since most of the work has to do with Jump.
X Chaser seems to ignore defense when the damage part is applied, but the damage is strictly what Rosa would do to the monster. So, it's reliant on the instant death attack to high defense monsters.
Rocket Launcher deals damage close to 50% more than what Ceodore normally does, I think. However, it is obviously more effective if its targeting monsters with the weakness of Fire. It's not really that good otherwise. I will have to look at the damage soon.
I haven't use enough of Aiming Thrust to get an idea of the damage dealt when Instant Death is not applied.
I've collected all the items in Kain's dungeon, but I haven't gotten the Grey Tail yet.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 11, 2012, 03:22:08 PM
A few more notes: I've collected the Grey Tail... but then again I keep trying to grind for the Purple Tail in Edge's Tale and still nodice.
Blessing allows Rosa to be the virtual fountain of healing. It helps to heal @ 3MP. :tongue:
The rotating simple treasure chest in Kain's dungeon contains the Bronze Hourglass, Ether, Light Curtain, Unicorn Horn (could be a few more). The most practical and useful item in the bunch is the Ether... especially since you cannot buy it quite yet.
The Grey Coeurl has some double hit fascination... go figure, it hurts when directly hit twice with it.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 11, 2012, 05:57:22 PM
All those tails, oy... How common would you say the drop is to get them? It can't really be 1/64 can it? I have never gotten a rare tail despite hunting for them for some time.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 11, 2012, 07:01:20 PM
Well, it's not that common, but I have 11 Cursed Rings in Edge's Tale, so take that for what that is worth (~13 hours of time recorded on it).
For having attempted to grind other tales, it took about 1 hour or so on average (2 30 min moon tries), having faced approximately a dozen or so (maybe more in a half hour go, I'd have to check the #s).
It does feel like I've got permanent taunt on a character in conjunction with Treasure Hunter v2 equipped and Rare Band (v2?) equipped, so that might be attributed to emulation or how the save was formatted.
:edit: I want to mention something about the algo used...
It seems that they have tweaked the damage algo a bit. There's variation, but not as much as you think. The algo looks like this...
Base Damage = Attack Multiplier * Attack Power * Accuracy (with some variance, probably 5% either way) Random Damage = BETWEEN (0, (Base Damage/2) or 255, whichever is smaller) - it could be between -127 and 127 though... Total Damage = Base Damage + Random Damage Critical Hits (probability is probably 1/32 chance) = Base Damage * 1.5 (regardless of weapon, including Bow+Arrows and Ninja-ambidextrous critical hits, which are different in FF4)
Same thing kinda goes with magic, particularly with the ones that use the caster's current HP. There is a damage variance and damage dealt can actually be 0...
Drops seem to occur at a 1/16 rate... with the rare drops being occasionally close to half what the 3rd drop slot usually is it (11/64 IIRC is the 3rd slot). That's just guesswork on my end.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 12, 2012, 07:50:02 AM
Started the Lunarian's Tale (or probably should just be called Golbez's Tale).
None of the skills either of them have are affected by the moon (other than magic). Bless, Pressure, Taunt work as is apparently.
Taunt is pretty much like the Trap Door's targeting... so, it's self explanatory... it's kinda like Cover except it's only for one directed attack.
Bless has no variance... it's fixed. It will always heal 1/20 of the character's maxHP, and 1/100 of the character's maxMP. You kinda wish for a Soma Drop for FuSoYa for that reason alone... FuSoYa will heal 3 consecutive times before his turn is relinquished.
Golbez is like the ultimate fighter+black wizard hybrid. He can equip heavy armor like Cecil, weapons like Kain (I've seen him use spears in some vids), and armor like any wizard (Rune Armlet is still pretty damn good). I guess the only negative is that he cannot equip a Bow+Arrow... considering that there are some issues with him... as his weapon options probably would be constrained (I mean, you may have to compete with Ceodore and Kain for some weapons). If you plan on using black magic with him, you would think he would be complemented in the back row with a Bow+Arrow, but just having a shield will suffice, he just won't be a great back row attacker... I don't expect him to be a Black Wizard replacement... since spells like Break and Tornado are a staple of the best black mage magic, but if you're solely focused on damage, the spell list will be fine. For balance reasons, Golbez will probably have the worst INT of all black magic users (well, maybe next to Leonora).
It's nice that FuSoYa gains reasonable amounts of HP (remember that in the original, he gains 20 or so per level, which technically is worse than Tellah). It still sucks when he isn't gaining MP (like Golbez not gaining HP, but Golbez has a lot of HP to start with, so... meh).
This journey is like "living with Tellah" in trying to find the monsters that best give out MP. Any monster that has low magic defense is a viable target. (Ideally, you want it to be less than 10, since the spell power of Osmose is 16, and probably hasn't changed in TAY.) The Flan are the kind of candidates you are looking for (0 magic defense, the Black Flan has the most HP of the bunch).
Had to use 2 Ethers in the first Mysterious Girl battle... it's just annoying to consume heavy amounts of MP for damage. Bio is not exactly damage efficient... since spending 50% more MP will allow you to do cast an -aga spell that has 100% the spell power of Bio.
It is kind of curious how the Ebony Blade and Ebony Robe is part of the the past.
Golbez looks silly when he tries to use Pressure. Then again, that command doesn't seem to work at all.
Ebony Blade gives +3 INT, +3 SPR. It's nothing worth writing home about, unless you need to swap it in for a small magic damage boost.
Ebony Robe provides +5 INT, +5 SPR with already noted undead protection. However, it also provides +11% evasion. It's close enough to a Luminous Robe than you'd think. Go figure on the undead protection.
It makes a lot more sense to equip the Diamond Armlet during the Mysterious Girl battle on FuSoYa (if you picked it up before the battle). Since the damage is primarily elemental based, and the Rune Armlet doesn't exactly boost his stats enough (in terms of the multiplier) before the battle, it's the best option for FuSoYa. The Rune Armlet is still better outside of that battle.
It makes sense to drop by the Lair of the Father (Bahamut's Cave) before going into the crater. Getting free Fire protection helps in addition to giving Demon resistance to Golbez, which he really needs.
The Mysterious Girl likes to multitarget Thundaga, but single target Firaga and Blizzaga. You might as well get all the elemental protection in advance.
I swear that most of the monsters in the crater are simply designed to drop Tents and Cottages. Take a look at their drop list... you would be surprised.
Too bad the Ancient Sword isn't good enough vs the Flan... Cursing them simply reduces the 254 defense of the Flan to 127... which is still way too high a defense value for Golbez to hit against.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 12, 2012, 10:05:31 AM
Pressure actually does work at higher levels, but I believe that it's based on Golbez's spirit (since it's basically Hold) rather than his Intelligence which is where your issues may be coming from with it. I've used it a fair amount myself.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 12, 2012, 06:13:46 PM
The thing about Hold is that it has a naturally high hit rate (like 80-85% plus SPR acc bonus). Pressure must have some low accuracy starting point, because I've practically written it off.
The "replaced" Behemoth battles in the Lair of the Father has the Count Malboro. Either there's something wrong with the RNG, but it really likes to put someone into permanent paralysis (uses Constrict on the middle character). Oh well, easy battle when the old man is the target.
Taunt seems to work like Defend, in that the status continues until the character's (Golbez) actual turn comes up (as in, you see his command list... his turn readiness does not count) where it then stops. Taunt keeps working for a bit, if you like setting it up like that (Stop and Golbez in the back row might be useful in conjunction with this idea).
I've collected Giant's Gloves for Golbez (and a bunch more because I was grinding for a Headband), Artemis Arrows (from the Black Flan), Rune Staff (superior than whatever lame staves you get)... it took a while.
This is one of the few times the Mythril Helm was worthwhile to keep on instead of using the Headband... the Lunar Subterrane is infested with Ghost Knights (not threatening) and Belphegors in the core (very threatening). The extra STR bonus is not necessary... since the Giant's Gloves covers that already and I can't quite get the next multiplier bonus. The Headband is solely to avoid being annoyed by the Lamia brethren.
Level 40 cap for FuSoYa and level 45 for Golbez... let's be honest... FuSoYa's levels are just to increase his HP margin by 25%. That's not saying much.
Icebrand is more effective than the Stoneblade... and there isn't any enemy strong vs Ice nor weak to it either. Oh well.
I got the "rare drop" of the Wooden Hammer from the Stale Golem (the purple version) and... it's kinda hilarious Golbez can use it, but you kinda wished FuSoYa could equip it in the original... at least then you could kinda justify FuSoYa's existence.
The Ice Armor is overrated. Remember when I said about the Ebony Robe that it was close to the Luminous Robe? Well, the Ice Armor isn't necessary if you already use the Ice Shield. I explained my justification of putting in the Luminous Robe on Ceodore instead of Rosa... this resembles that logic. The only difference is that there isn't any Lightning resistance, but that could be solved by the Diamond Armlet.
Isn't it kinda strange to some degree that Golbez can equip Staves and Rods? I don't think I have a Rod available (I could probably grind for it from the Sorceress from the crater - not worth it anyways) but I mean it made more sense if you could actually use White Magic if you could equip a staff... then again, IIRC, Harley is supposed to be able to equip Rods, despite having no practical use for it.
Quake is great when Golbez learns it... 50% more MP for slightly more than 50% more damage than Bio (Bio: 128, Quake: 200, -aga Spells: 256). I think in this case, it is worth the extra wait vs the Mysterious Girl... Quake is one of the super quick spells to cast, like Bio and has always been a staple in my goto spells. Better to have Golbez use it instead of FuSoYa because of the MP pool... Golbez with the capped stats is about the same as FuSoYa in terms of INT (it's only one multiplier or so higher with equipment).
Sight's map is useful (been a feature since the WSC version)... given that I do not usually walk the moon's surface. However, they didn't correct it with the "new path" to Hummingway's Place, despite having a new location for the "Impact Crater" site.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 13, 2012, 03:04:29 PM
Death Machine is the special monster in the Hummingway Dungeon... a reminder of FF1's specialized monster (based off the WSC visual). It's more suicidal than anything so attack fast with the strongest magic before it explodes.
Double Black Magic is literally having dualcast of the -aga spells (and reported Meteor is part of that too, but haven't gotten lucky with that yet). So, just imagine what a combine damage of both FuSoYa and Golbez does with the elemental and that is what you get.
I swear band speeds are limited to the slowest person in the party... so in this case, FuSoYa is holding you back.
Pressure is starting to work, but it seems to primarily be level based, so basically it works if Golbez's level is greater than the target's level. Imposing your will vs weaker enemies is logical, but it isn't the most useful since they are that weak...
The mini-dream/flashback/nightmare scenes are amusing... but it doesn't quite make sense to have Cid in the back row (not that it would matter). However, I wonder what kind of "dummied" armor that would allow for Golbez to absorb so little magic damage from Tellah... it makes Bio deal 0 damage (so it must have 128 magic defense minimum) and the -aga spells deal 128-ish damage....
The Ebony Dragon is kinda like a Behemoth except that it reacts the same way to every attack... it seems. Very fast and aggressive. It helps to have Golbez in the back and have completed the entire tale (for the Double Black Magic band). Double Black Magic is more useful, despite using more MP overall... because you can spread the MP costs around, instead of relying solely on FuSoYa and Holy (which will do about the same amount of damage). Since it is helpful to pay for Ethers in advance, you can try to prey on Osmose vs the Black Flan and the more common White Mousse... which will allow you to replenish your MP through Osmose.
I cannot quite understand why damage between Miss and 400 hurts Golbez from the Ebony Dragon... I can understand Miss... but the gap is interesting... like the Behemoth for Purple Tail drop runs... 200-300 damage to Edge and Miss (although there's a lot more hits than misses). There's something to the algo that has changed outside of the fact that the back row is seemingly a lot more beneficial than before.... (or less beneficial in some cases).
:edit: It is worth noting that the Count Malboro and the particular worm (forgot its name off the top of my head) is definitely one of the few artistic upgrades (I'm sure there's a few more, like the Octomammoth ones, but, meh)
Replacing the Ice Shield with the Diamond Shield is probably the best upgrade... since Demons at this point are limited to the Lamia brethren. The Diamond Armlet is not really a great upgrade, over the Rune Armlet. Given the fact that the Rune Armlet in conjunction with the Ebony Robe and the Enhancement Sword will allow for a 3x Magic Evasion Multiplier... the Diamond Armlet is still meh for the most part (it's worth using until you get the shield).
The Hummingway Dungeon's boss Kirin is strange compared to most of the Chimera battles. Its weakness is to Darkness (seriously why? Perhaps the Ebony Blade is Darkness elemental...) but not weak vs the elementals... and absorbs Holy. The other Chimera monsters are always absorbing the major elementals outside of Holy...
It seems to like using Thundaga (lightning elemental equipment applicable here) and Quake. Quake is easily solvable, but the Holy retort is very interesting.
Holy is used in retaliation to magic... but that's only AFTER 2 or 3 magic (and physical?) attacks on the boss. Slow seems to accelerate this trigger, so it may be counter productive in that sense. Even when you think Reflect is a good idea, bouncing Holy back to the monster makes your magic attack half as effective. You are probably better off putting Haste on yourselves than putting Slow on the enemy.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 14, 2012, 09:41:12 AM
I'm still working on getting the Purple Tail... but eventually I must move on...
I lost 3 Cursed Rings.. only to collect 4 Cursed Rings on the next run for the Purple Tail in a half hour grind... (then another 2 in the next half hour)... so I got 17 Cursed Rings (in Edge's Tale alone), so anyone need a Cursed Ring?
The Aegis Shield makes things nice to not need the Rune Armlet (you'll still need the Enhancement Sword) for the 3x Magic Evasion Multiplier.
Armstrong is the most uneventful boss. Although it could be RNG related. Casting magic on it is asking for instant death (well, not really, but the initial retaliation is virtually asking for death). Outside of that, Berserk+Haste on Golbez is pretty much the way to win it seems. It's probably reasonable to use the Protect Staff when needed. Boosting the monster's attack power though magic is a bad idea...
It is sad that the Defender can multitarget Protect but the Protect Staff won't...
The Master's Staff heals about 640 to 760 or so. It looks like Cura, but I doubt it uses the Cura algo... but on the other hand, it might provide some insight to the spell power. Although, I wonder if it is based off Golbez's spell power... (it is not affected by the moon phase anyways).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 15, 2012, 07:25:56 AM
Short post for now (will be busy during the day):
Two guesses on the Master's Staff's "Cura" Spell Power: Min: 648 Max: 786 48 (normal Cura) * 13 Spell Multiplier 54 (slightly tweaked Cura) * 12 Spell Multiplier (leaning towards this version)
My major test is against undead, which is how I came up with the values. Undead treat healing as damage, and it works against their magic defense, so the damage dealt is lower.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 17, 2012, 02:18:08 AM
Ebony Blade is what I thought it was initially.. Darkness elemental. I doubt it is as useful for that purpose, but it's something to consider if you're trying to expose weaknesses. I doubt there are that many monsters that can be exposed to it (Kirin is one). Monsters that actually have Darkness resistance (like the Black Knight) does cripple the attack power, as noted before when I was discussing physical elemental resistances in my Algo FAQ.
Rocket Launcher works a bit strange to me. It's not completely a combined attack between Cid+Ceodore, as the Fire elemental component probably has some sort of damage boost, but a small one at that of 25%. When a target is weak to that element (Fire), it seems to do like 50% more damage (it barely works against Flan that have the Fire elemental weakness). When a target is strong to the element of Fire, the damage resembles more of a combined attack.
I will continue on with the game, as planned later. I've kinda given up on the damned Purple Tail and the Behemoth.
:edit: One small update. Ebony Robe is also what I thought it was earlier... it has Darkness elemental resistance. Again.. I'm not sure how practical that is.
:edit: "Unite the clans" or something like that. In loading the combined stuff up, I gained 2 mil in gil. Go figure. Does anyone need 20+ Cursed Rings?
I'm not exactly sure having the Enterprise/Falcon music playing as the overworld theme is good or not. In some ways, it feels like FF6, searching for everyone... (with the background theme being Chrono Trigger-ish).
As soon as I realized this.. I can't get the best stuff for Edge weapon-wise.. as I split the weapon distribution. Perhaps, I should have been more greedy on that.
Luca initially will have the crappiest armor equipped. Ice Shield+Diamond Armor should fix most of what ails her.
Although the game gives you nice stuff occasionally through stuff "laying around", there's a lot of junk that's around too. Go figure.
Rydia learns all her -aga spells early... which is good. It's worth grinding for as needed.
Flare Tornado Band is really nice. Luca will be limited in the MP, but considering it is 15MP each, it is very easy to execute. I'm not sure how the damage is calculated, but it is automatically split, so damage can be limited, and it's solely Fire elemental. The Tornado (wind) aspect is not assigned as an elemental (the "wind-like" part is Big Throw). It isn't affected by row. This band is really useful during this tale as bosses will take a lot of damage from it, leaving Golbez to do what he wishes.
Rocket Launcher is affected by row... if I forgot to mention this earlier. The damage difference is minor as far as I can tell.
Broken Heart Band is kinda nice. It feels like a combined attack with a small 25% damage boost as the attack is split to every target (no split damage factoring in). However, it isn't Wind elemental though, so flying units do not take additional damage.
You will easily find that Luca will need a weapon upgrade early (whatever she has isn't going to scale like everyone else). It helps to do the Agart scenario first for that reason alone, even if you don't finish it in the first go. It might be a great time to grind for the Giant's Gloves here if you haven't gotten any. Keeping Luca with the Axe+Shield for a bit longer is worth it IMO, but this will require her to goto the front row since the throwing axe options start to suck (Dwarf Axe in particular makes her slow, and it's not even made Wind elemental).
Here's a simple and small trick to get certain monsters into the Bestiary. Save before you fight them (like Ramuh for instance), then use a spare slot (I've designated Slot 13 for this purpose) and save the result of the monster's defeat (Ramuh getting killed). Then, load back the older save and then get the desired result (getting the summon). This will get you the Bestiary entry and the summon... you could do it with the Antlion and the Sylph and with Shiva w/o any negatively known consequences. It should work going forward.
It is a bit lame how Rydia ends up with 1HP mysteriously during the battle with Ramuh. It's not as if Ramuh attacks her... even though the two combined attacks of Thunderbolt and Thundaga don't actually hurt that much.
I've gotten 2 of Edge's v2 Ninjutsu spells and they seem really powerful for a little bit of INT that was used for them. I wonder if they are imbalanced. The other Ninjas will not have the same type of INT that Edge gets, so I guess it might be balanced... but I'm not so sure.
Getting Chocobo for free is like an upgrade to the Goblin summon. Seriously, this doesn't feel much like an upgrade. Sylph is the first summon worth getting early and the other summons are kinda obsolete when the -aga spells are being learned so early. You don't need Titan... just use Golbez's Quake. You won't feel the difference... at least not by much.
Ramuh seems to have some odd Thundara thing where he hits Golbez, then Edge in succession. I figure the targeting might actually be randomized, but it would be based on row (attack a random character in the front, and then in the back row).
Running from Ifrit v2 is kinda dumb.
Rydia with the Killer Bow+Artemis Arrows was... disappointing. Consider that her STR really sucks, you don't get the multiplier you want. I guess the whip isn't a bad thing... but for now, the bow+arrow combo gets Rydia 100+ attack power (with a 4 or 5 attack multiplier).
The only seemingly new shops are at Troia and Baron. Go figure. The Bone Armor seems nice, but the elemental armors are probably more practical. The Bone Wrist is probably a better option...
Most of the monsters aren't really that hard, unless you didn't import the other data. Oh well.
I've gotten all the summons, so I'm off to the Eblan Cave passage to Babil. I've not gotten around to test the Recovery Rod yet.
I'm almost convinced 56 is the spell power for Healing Pill... but I'd have to test it to be sure.
It is a rare thought to consider Edge as the source of healing (assuming you aren't using items)... I'm not entirely sure why pretty much every character (I mean, the original 5) in the original game has healing powers of some sort now...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 18, 2012, 08:06:50 PM
Been busy, so sorry for the slow-ish updates.
It's nice how the first drop against the High Wizard and Amazon was a Ribbon. Great monster to grind against... The Rose Twine Dress from the Amazon is actually nice, although long term it isn't a solution.... it provides good stats and protection for the women... Most of the female characters have pretty poor AGI stats, so this helps significantly.
The Sage Robe is like the fix that ails Palom... +10 STR and +10 AGI. Although, it is just as useful on Leonora.
Remembering how certain boss monsters were sad... like the Baigan. I don't quite get why Sandy was all about using Curaga when her "big" sister was dead (an improvement over Cura I guess) and Mindy who seemed to like casting Bio... which really isn't that threatening.
Scarmaglione (non-undead version) is abnormally slow or something. It feels (classic) Behemoth-like, with the Thundaga counters. The sad thing is that it's pretty damn easy to get the protection for that spell alone. Then again, I had already bought a complete set of Elven Bows, so casting Shell from the item was a breeze.
I gain some levels for the Dolls (from level 25 to 30)... it wasn't so bad, but they did need the help. Long term, the dolls are very dependent on their bands (which means you'll need Luca at the very least).
Mixing and matches characters is fun.
You'll find that having a dedicated fighter for a damage absorber is important meaning Kain, Yang, probably Cid should be your top choices, and Cecil later on because he's just a shell of himself. You can also use cheaper versions of the same characters (Ceodore, Ursula, and Luca are good cheaper options).
A dedicated White Mage is important... you need high Spirit and the best healing options available, so leave it to Porom, Rosa, or Leonora you'll need a bit more levels for Leonora on her White Magic side. Ceodore is an option but not a good full time healer because he's more of a emergency healer... if you had someone to offset that, it would be helpful (like having Brina Dance or Edward).
A Black Mage is kinda important... sometimes it is the most effective way of getting rid of Flan and easier monsters quickly. Quake is the best solution (it will take some time to grind for that)... Golbez, Palom, and Rydia are at the top of these lists. Alternative options are any of the ninjas and their Ninjutsu.
You will then need occasionally, one character that is able to ignore rows and reflect and are able to target any monster specifically on the field. For instance, Kain and Zangetsu are great for Jump (which has its own counters, like the Curse Dragon's special Jump retaliation). Rydia's summons are great (with their own sets of summon counters). Edge with his Throw (and the two ninjas that can throw stuff) is a good idea too... A cheap alternative is to use a Bow+Arrow or any strong back row compatible weapons and characters that can equip them (ambidextrous ninjas with boomerangs come to mind). You will want this particularly for targeting annoying monsters...
The most important IMO is having a character that has the fastest speed to lead off. This is more of a preventative type of thing where you want to be able to run away (using a spell like Smoke or Teleport) or heal up quickly after a nasty attack. Edge, Tsukinowa, Ursula are usually top candidates for this, with some notable alternatives like Golbez, Kain, Ceodore, and Edward being good enough for this role.
Anyways... the party changing system feels sluggish. FF6 and CT's system seemed a lot more seamless.
It took a hell of a long while to get the bands for the characters so far (Cecil's shell state makes it impossible to add some). I've noticed that most of them seem fairly logical in terms of logical groupage (those with White Magic, Black Magic, the young, the old, etc.). Then there's the oddball ones... like Exploding Kick (Yang+Gekkou), or Frost Wave (Izayoi+Leonora).
Double Tomahawk is funny. One can only imagine what Cid is muttering after Luca's head stompage. :P
Anyone need a Cursed Ring? I have 32 and counting. At this rate, I will have collected 99 after getting level 99 for all characters.
Most of the monsters seem new, but yet they are simply variations of what was already there. Since when was Sleep more threatening than Confuse?
A cheap way of avoiding Tent/Cottage usage is to swap characters into and out of the party switching system. It's probably just easier to spend the Cottage or Tent.
Lots of the equipment from the challenge dungeon have been very beneficial to the cause. The Flan Ring vs the Flan Princess was mighty useful... for once.
The Flan Ring unfortunately removes 10 magic defense to the character (the rating cannot be negative, so it is capped at 0)... lame punishment IMO. Imagine if/when Flan actually had magic.
I think Ursula's Tenketsu was made to fail vs Flan. Kinda like Kick and Dark Wave.... (I mean, what is the weak point of Flan?)
Edward is interestingly designed to have BardSong become useless later on. Unlike Brina's Dance, Bardsong is limited to a smaller subset of White Magic (Dance has Blink, Curaga, and Curaja, although Raise is not the spell I would want), and the statuses on offense are really not that great late game. So, he's really just the dumbed down version of a power healer and occasional monster killer. I guess that's not so bad.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 19, 2012, 02:26:32 AM
I'm not sure if its emulation related, but it's really annoying when there is no audio playing in certain areas... which also affects the sounds at the same time.... WHHHYYYY?
Beating the "revived CPU" is a joke. How is it possible to make the enemy weaker than the original? Specifically, the attacking unit really sucks, particularly because it is based off its own HP... so all you really need to do is slowly sap life out of it if you wish to take less damage. Despite the defending core heals everything and anything it randomly wishes to (which isn't really much of an upgrade, and technically a nerf), the CPU battle continues to disappoint.
TBH, I think Rubicante vs the party is far more difficult. One of the things Rubicante likes to do near death is to cast Firaga or Blizzaga depending on the state of his cloak. This guarantees that he will be healed pretty well (relatively speaking) and requires you to focus on dealing significant damage late in the battle. Of course, you could consider putting Reflect status on him, but that would also mean you will be taking pretty significant damage.
Solo Edge with Spider Silk+Lunar Curtain = Auto-Battle gg. Lunar Curtain provides physical "invincibility", which Rubicante doesn't remove so it doesn't really matter what Rubicante does at this point. The match is over before it began. It's not hard to kill him even if you lose the effect of Reflect at some point...
Although in the older versions of FF4 where Confuse status on Berserked characters would eventually remove Berserk status upon Confuse status removal, TAY allows Berserk status to continue on its way after Confuse removal.
Dispel removes Slow (and Haste, subsequently), which is nice. Finally, someone paid attention to obvious stuff.
The Clockwork Dragon still hurts... if not hurts more than the original. If left unchecked, it will be able to kill characters under 2500HP that have no fire resistance. You simply will not have enough characters with fire resistance available (generally speaking)... you will have gotten a complete set of Dragon Armor (good for Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Luca, Cid, and Golbez, I think) 1 Protect Ring, and 1 Red Cap (limited to what FF5 would call "medium armor" for Monks/Ninjas) . On paper, that should cover every character, but you would have to make some sacrifices like actually constructing a party using those characters and using Luca (Throw), Kain (Jump), and perhaps Golbez (just using magic) in the back row. Having Ceodore as the primary healer would probably suck. Otherwise... just expect most of the other characters to immediately wasted.
The Fire Scarf does what I thought it should... since the Absorb property can attach itself to other elemental properties (like the Cursed), this is great since it doesn't have any negative side effects like the Cursed Ring (well, outside of the lowered magic evasion and lack of magic defense, which would actually help you out). +3 to all stats outside of SPR.. with insane evasion. This allows any Ninja to become incredibly useful, plus it makes Izayoi the ultimate magic rod with the Mystic Veil. Yes, absorbing a full dose of Holy (or Meteor? I'm not sure if the elemental property changed). All you need now is a band or another healer to provide multitargeted healing.
Human Kite is reacted to the same as Jump by Barbariccia. TBH, I think this version is more dangerous since she actually counters with Tornado and Stone Touch, instead of waiting for her next turn. Your mistake is your own undoing (although, Kain isn't probably required, but it makes life easier).
Cagnazzo still sucks, but taking your sweet time will get you killed. Double dose of Yang and Ursula is a winning combo. I did also notice that outside of them, Edge can equip Claws (as usual, and not limited to basic originals)... and not Tsukinowa.
The Thunder Dragon is still dangerous when left unchecked (the harder than normal/hardest version in the final dungeon). Thunderbolt still hurts despite resistances.
Gekkou's inability to equip shields sucks. I guess it's axe/hammer full time...
Porom learning Holy earlier than Rosa is great... not that it makes things different in the grand scheme of things.
You would think Palom would learn Quake quickly... I thought he was a genius.. :P
I don't think Porom learns Float too early IIRC, so it might actually be possible for Porom to not actually have it legitimately during the Titan event.... I mean by comparison, Leonora starts with Esuna, so there's a logical reason to that (then again, how the twins are able to cast Break on themselves w/o having learned it kinda breaks a few things).
I have only 4 Ribbons so far (I'd like the complete set... and then some for later...) 2 Artemis Arrows (kinda wish for one more... which should be easy to obtain) and 30+ Cursed Rings... great. I also got a 2nd Black Tail on the random drop... yet I cannot get a freaking Pink Tail yet...
Apollo's Harp is rather conflicting with Edward vs the Red Dragon. It seems to negate the damage bonus from the racial bonus (it is almost as if the 1/2 damage reduction is applied first). This weapon is an upgrade.. just not for that monster (+10 STR, +10 AGI, +10 SPR).
The strongest of men get the best heavy type armor (Luca is the exception). Women on the other hand get a ton of really good armor options... like the Gold Hairband (lightning elemental, dragon resistance, +10 INT), Mystic Veil (holy resistance +7 INT, +7, SPR, +1 AGI), Rose Twin Dress (+3 all, very good evasion), Minerva Bustier (not acquired yet, +?? STR, AGI, VIT, -?? INT, SPR, great evasion). Luca gets quite a bit of the best of both worlds, outside of the actual armor. Even Brina (the female doll) gets the good stuff. It's hard to argue against these facts...
For a thought, compare Luca vs Cid's armor options... then Ursula vs Yang's armor options.
If there were only more Dragon armor to go around though... although, it isn't a half bad idea to grind Red Dragons (the non-tail versions) for them. It's a Protect Ring plus IMO (especially given that there is a ton of dragons in the original, and here as well).
Bow+Arrows are really not as effective for Rydia, Palom, and Porom... similar characters like Leonora, Harley, and Rosa gain quite a bit of STR, which generally makes them significantly more effective with such weapons.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 19, 2012, 07:23:44 PM
I'm at the point where I can kill the DK...
Right now, I've been grinding, but grinding in a smart way. It is interesting that all the warp points are in areas where there are really really good drops. I have 4 Minerva Bustiers (one more needed for the set), 2 Crystal Rings (yet only 1 Wyvern Lance), 10 Ribbons (need 5 more or so) and a Rune Axe. I still need to eventually grind for another Artermis Arrow drop... though I really want the Artemis Bow this time around...
Minerva Bustier is most useful on Harley, given that she has no magic (+10 STR, AGI, STA, -10 INT, SPR). This is more similar to the FF4ET version of the armor... which is a bit more forgiving for spell casters.
The White Robe provides +10 SPR, unlike the +15 SPR in the original (of course, for balance reasons).
If the Sage's Robe is like the version used in FF4A (I think it's the same?), then it protects vs mages as well.
I'm not sure why the Cursed Ring wasn't tweaked... it's still -15 to all stats...
While you're curious, I have 30+ Cursed Rings... but I have just as many Giant's Gloves to go around. Anyone want any? Although, with the Crystal Ring drops being a lot more frequent.... I'll need some extra Protect Rings soon (the Crystal Ring is better when you already have elemental protection).
I know there's another enemy that drops Dragon Shields... and that's great unless your Cid or Luca... where this isn't as practical when their stronger weapons are 2-handed.
I forget the logic behind having 2-handed axes being actually weaker than hammers. Hammers have a 75% hit rate... but Axes have a lower hit rate (Dwarf Axe/Ogrekiller = 69%, Poison/Rune Axe = 60%). The whole point of an axe is really to be able to kill giants or some racial monster... Hammers are the way to go, despite being slightly weaker to this point (the Sledgehammer being the only strongest available weapon so far).
Is it just me, or did they flip the colors of the Poison and Rune Axe? Poison is green, whereas Rune is now purple. For consistency, usually green is used for anti-mage weaponry (Elven Bow, Mage Masher). Maybe I haven't noticed this before because... I haven't really used these weapons.
Poison Axe is still anti-giant... fortunately.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 20, 2012, 08:43:47 AM
Done the Cecil event... but find myself grinding for more stuff, and Cecil's level to get from 40 to 60. It's actually fun getting stuff with Treasure Hunter v2 and Rare Band v2. Stuff is coming more often... at least somewhat measurably better, but these things are not givens. At least the items are dropped probably twice as frequently, with usually better stuff.
Collected an Artemis Bow... finding a way to cripple Harley's magic stat growth (however useful that is) is pretty interesting. She's wicked fast with that Artemis Bow and Minerva Bustier, but not much more useful...
I think the Ribbon count is now @ 12, and picked up the 3rd Crystal Ring (no luck on getting the 2nd Wyvern Lance yet).
Looking at the band list briefly, it seems to me that the best bands are the ones that have pretty good team construction... or at least ones that have decent groupings.
For example, I like the classic FF4 group a lot, since a lot of decent bands become available. The ultimate 5 character one in that group is... overkill... but there's still a lot to be had.
Other groups like the new young team (Ceodore, Ursula, Luca) can be potent... and the new mage team (Palom, Porom, Leonora) can be mixed somewhat for really good results.
Also, Team Ninja (or Team Eblan) in Edge's scenario are pretty good as a combo (there are really good individual combos too).
Although, Team EvilDoll can be difficult to manage (Luca, Cid, Calca, Brina)... you could add Edward (there's a special band that goes with the dolls) to gain healing (no outside healing though).
Anything that resembles Team Magi would be difficult to run defensively... (Palom, Porom, Leonora, Rydia, Rosa).
Team Baron is pretty complete (Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Cid, Rosa) and isn't bad on paper (this is a classic FF4 formation after the original Tower of Zot event).
Golbez's Bands, outside of FuSoYa is really tied to Cecil... so it can allow you to sub Edge out as needed.
Team Royal (Cecil, Yang, Edward, Edge) probably could use help from either Rosa or Harley for healing (Harley's band is key for this actually).
Team Holy Monk (Cecil, Ceodore, Yang, Ursula) doesn't make too much sense in terms of formation... I guess Ceodore could be in the back, but this will be limited offensively...
Team Ordeals (Cecil, Palom, Porom) can easily be a start of various combos... since the twins and Cecil have various band combos available between the two (adding Leonora or Rosa or Rydia for wizardry can work, there's too many fighters on the other side that can work well too, like Golbez, Kain, Ceodore, Cid... not so much Luca, as she is dependent on Leonora or Cid ).
Team Saved the World (Edge, Rydia, Luca, minus Golbez) has a solid foundation band that I liked, in Flare Tornado. This team could easily add Cid (for Luca) or the dolls or even part of Team Ninja (specifically Izayoi and Gekkou for healing, or Tsukinowa and Zangetsu for Haste) or mages (Palom and Leonora).
A lot of the other bands are kinda gimmicky in terms of dealing with formations, so it makes sense to build around working 2 fighter + 3 mage formations or 3 fighter + 2 mage formations... (which can be adjusted to 4 fighter + 1 healer if the back row characters like Kain with Jump or Luca with Big Throw are available).
This game should have come with a "sort band" option... so it would rearrange the bands based on the construction of the team. It should ideally be automatic...
Remove all equipment should have been an option (kinda like the guy on the airship in FF6 or FF6's equipment menus).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 20, 2012, 08:17:21 PM
Trying to create 3 or 4 complete teams of characters and that's not very easy.
Team 1: Original 5 (shouldn't have to explain this) Team 2: Eblan 4 (minus Edge, plus Golbez) Team 3: I'm not sure how to properly nickname this... 4 Women And A Boob or Palom's Angels (Palom, Leonora, Porom, Ursula, Luca) Team 4: Whoever's left outside of the dolls... (unfortunately, that means Ceodore is pretty much by himself bandless, which isnt good... I'll have to think about improving this)
Trying to find proper combos with Yang and Cid is difficult. Cid's compatibility is pretty much limited to Luca and her dolls and Yang's compatibility is limited to Ursula... then we have Edward who's practically attached to Harley (or the other way around I suppose).
I don't like Bands that take every character... because most of the time, the cost/benefit ratio sucks. If you can use 3 of 4, usually you can do some other stuff with the lone character in action.
For Team 3, it's really simple. Ursula doesn't have much in common with the others, outside of some bands that require herself and Ceodore (with Luca or Cecil+Yang), but the main attraction happens to involve certain bands...
Petal Whirlwind's description is interesting - as it suggests it should be combined with elemental weakness. It's true and it's a great bonus that it ignores the "damage limit". Great for boss killing.
Palom in the Sky is a complementary band to something else. It's a great Thundaga alternative (30 MP consumed) and though this doesn't ignore the damage limit, it is great during Depths B5 where the Goblin Princes and the Sahagin Princes are susceptible to that elemental. Finishing up the process is I believe a Curaja on Palom that ends the sequence (and Curaja costs 40MP!) It's kinda weird when Curaja heals 0HP (you would've thought he took damage).
Ice Crush is HILARIOUS. However, it has some downsides... which is why Palom in the Sky is actually very important. Although Luca's Big Throw allows her to toss her weapon like some sort of boomerang, part of the sequence involves Palom being the recipient of the attack. The damage dealt to the monsters is pretty significant, despite being elemental... so you would have to treat the attack as a normal attack by Luca on Palom... (meaning, it would help a lot for Palom if he had that equipped). I tried using Blink on Palom in advance, but that wouldn't be a factor apparently. The great side effect of Ice Crush is that Luca's weapon is a major factor on the monsters, so while I have the Sledgehammer equipped on her, there's a great chance that they get confused as a result of the blow (Palom hasn't fallen under confuse so far, since I have not gotten him Confuse protection IIRC).
This trio of upper tier bands are very good, so I'm sure there will be good formations to be had...
I had been thinking of a Cecil, Ceodore, Kain (in back row), Golbez and Rosa formation... that would allow Cecil and Ceodore to maximize the bulk of their power bands....
Feel free to discuss character formations that work... (outside of the obvious 5-character bands)...
Pink Armor does block Paralysis, Death, and a few others I cannot recall. It is somewhat better than the Ribbon (it allows the women to equip the Gold Hairband or Mystic Veil w/o much penalty).
Blue Armor doesn't seem to be too effective vs the monsters it is supposed to resist... unless the damage algo has changed a bit... I know they deal less damage... but perhaps the attack power is only lowered by 1/4 because the accuracy might not have changed.... and if their attack power was lowered by 1/2, the damage would be far less than anticipated. Maybe it's just damage reduction by 1/2 instead (basically, do all the math vs armor and whatnot, then just reduce the damage dealt)... which would probably make better sense. Having 100+ armor values doesn't seem to deter the monsters, so clearly something is going on.
I've gotten a party set of 5 Crystal Rings... and 3 Artemis Bows (but I'll need to get 1 more Artemis Arrow set first to have a complete party set)...
13 Ribbons and counting...
2 Rune Axes available now (need a 3rd to complete the set, for Cid, Luca, and Gekkou... the others that can equip them are usually not worth giving them to)...
I have a complete set (and then some) of Minerva Bustiers (like 6?). Go figure on what to do with them. The Artemis Bow is probably better than the Minerva long term... mainly because the armor provides little magic defense... unless you need Paralysis protection (which is kinda important for certain enemies).
I believe I have 3 or 4 Dragon Whiskers... which is probably more effective than the Wyvern Lance and the Artemis Bow+Arrow combos out there. In general, the Wyvern Lance is actually equal to the Artemis Bow+Arrow combo before you factor in the stat bonuses (the Bow+Arrow combo is better there, but you can't equip a shield for that reason). For the simple math, you must take HALF of the Bow's listed attack power (which is correct) and then add it to the attack power of the arrows... this is how you get the actual attack power of a Bow+Arrow combo. Artemis Bow (80 attack power) + Artemis Arrows (75 attack power) = 115 combined attack power (40 is the Artemis Bow's effective attack power + 75 from the Arrows).
The Blue Dragon is the only reason where the Dragon Whiskers are better... when a monster is elementally resistant to the weapon's element, just slash the attack power in half. The Blue Dragon is resistant to ALL elements (well, it actually ABSORBS them), including "Throw" or Wind elemental which I've been calling it (the Bestiary does not list Throw as an elemental, but it's there, including the original game's version). It's easy to test this with Gale, which is clearly a Wind elemental spell (the monster absorbs this and every elemental). So, just on that alone, the weapons are dumbed down to 57.5 attack power (or 57, due to truncation). The Dragon Whisker is not affected by this, so it deals full damage to the Blue Dragon. Both the Bow+Arrow combo and ALL lances are Wind elemental... which always limits the damage potential. Overall, these weapons are more effective vs other dragons in general (the Red Dragon for one, of course).
At least with the Dragon Whisker, you can equip a shield (well, only one specific shield anyways) to go with it... which is probably very beneficial if you want defense over effectively double the attack power with the Artemis Bow+Arrow combo. Only 3 normal characters can equip Whips anyhow...
I've had similar rants about the Blue Dragon before... so... this shouldn't be new news...
Strangely enough, the Dragon Claw doesn't seem to be affected by this too much (great for Ursula in fact).
It's not good to have a Boomerang around.. you might as well just use Katanas outright because that would effectively be the same...
I would like to add, that the classic weapons from the FF1 elementals should allow one to use the dolls effectively... since their weapon options really suck before this point (armor-wise, it's not as much an issue).
One thought about Cover Counter... before I forget. It is possible for Yang and the monster he is countering to both die from the counterattack. Beware and it is probably best to combine Cover Counter with Blink because Yang takes a crapload more damage than Cecil on average due to armor... despite the fact that Yang has a lot more HP to work with.
BTW, Asura seems to counter everything... even when I used Palom's Bluff... heh.
:edit: I think I forgot to mention this... but I did chuckle when Edge was looking for "the knife" after asking Yang's wife for something to wake him and Ursula up... yes, someone remembers such details.
Cat Hood Ears (FF6 based item, FF4A reused) is mainly a Wizard based armor... +7 AGI to go with Ice protection is nice (since, that kinda complements the Red Cap to some degree, but the Red Cap is for Ninjas and Monks really).
Blue Armor has +5 STR and +5 STA, which is kinda lame, since they need more help with AGI like the women... 0% evasion but a crapton of defense and magic defense.
Pink Armor has +5 AGI, with an insane evasion bonus...
Triton's Dagger is similar to its FF4A version, +10 INT.
Assassin Dagger is similar to its FF4A version... +15 INT with instant death randomness.
Dragon's Claw provides +10 STR and +10 SPR... great for Ursula...
Rising Sun provides +10 AGI... which is good enough to counter the Murasame's -5 AGI loss.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 21, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
Red Jacket is nice (could arguably be better than the Brave Suit)... +10 STR, +10 AGI... fire resistance does help.
Hypnocrown is not exciting... +5 INT bonus.
Triton's Dagger uses the Flood version in TAY, so it's barely much better than Gaia's Hammer in terms of overall damage. It is likely that Triton's Dagger has the same spell multiplier like its original (Spell Multiplier = 8). Chances are Thor's Hammer won't be that much better (outside of the chance of instant death to specific elementally weak monsters).
I like Team Holy Monk (or Holy Fist) for King's Quad, especially if you add Luca to the group. It will allow you to do one more skill, specifically Delta Evolution. The team is VERY physical, so it's major deficiency is magic... no black magic to kill Flan with... or even Mini to make them harmless. You can make up the back row inefficiencies through Big Throw and Focus (both Yang and Luca in the back row). There are lots of natural bands to go with them... mostly two-character bands between many of the characters (Yang+Ursula, Cecil+Ceodore, Ceodore+Ursula, Cecil+Yang).
Kain is a good option here, but he suffers from the same problems as Luca (must rely on Jump), but he does have one really good band that goes with Cecil (and eventually Ceodore).
I think if you sub in Golbez for Luca, it might be more well rounded actually. That should clear the team's deficiency perfectly... in fact, it allows you to take advantage one of Golbez's best bands which requires Ceodore (as limited for the most part as he's chained to Cecil for any useful bands). Golbez can be part of the back row since he has magic... or in the front row to sub in for Yang or Ceodore. The only limitation is healing since Ceodore is probably closer to the bottom of Curaga healers in the game (but as said before, he would be naturally the fastest).
:edit: I forgot to mention that the Behemoth version in the depths is not logged... it's probably like the non-Tail Behemoth... probably closer to the one in FF4 (15K HP), but it's unknown what the it has in its rare drop slot.
:edit: I'm liking the modified Golbez addition to Team Holy Fist. The only caveat is that you have to actually make a decision... putting Ceodore in the back improves Ceodore's damage intake vs physical attacks, but limits his contribution to Advance Blade Band (Cecil, Ceodore, Golbez). For better overall offense, it may be better to put Golbez in the back row, since Black Magic is not row dependent.
I'll just call this new formation, Team Chaos Fist (Cecil, Ceodore, Golbez, Yang, Ursula. Note that the
I will try Cecil, Luca, Leonora, Palom, Porom later for the Break Breaker Band (Cecil, Palom, Porom) with the existing love for Palom in the Sky and Ice Crush (Cecil can just cure Palom when it comes to that band). I'll call this group for now.. "Team High Power"..
Looking over the King's Quad Band (will need to test it out), the best extra member of this group (of Cecil, Yang, Edge, Edward), that I can figure is Rydia. Edward would be the designated healer and there are actually quite a hit of bands based on summons for ALL of the characters in said group, allowing Rydia to be very useful.
I'm thinking of writing a band-based FAQ. This has probably been the best addition to the game... as much as there are other oddities about it....
:edit: Cover Counter is way more useful than originally thought. The original basis of the Cover command is that Cecil takes the damage that he would've gotten based on the row that Cecil is in. Obviously, it's not practical for him offensively to put him in the back row, but it's great as a defensive strategy to simply cover from the back row.
Cover Counter uses this philosophy, but also returns damage based on the row the character is in. So, let's assume that Ursula is in the front row and Yang is using his Cover Counter from the back row (BTW his cover command can override's Cecil's cover when the character Yang is covering is critical). He will absorb the attack as if the target was in the back row (which Yang is currently in) and deal damage as if Yang was in the front row (which is where Ursula is at). This has some interesting applications and can allow Yang to stay in the back row if you so desire. If Yang is covering a back row character while he is the back row, obviously, he will do less damage... I assume you can figure this out (if you can't, test it out yourself).
It's amusing that the Assassin Dagger cannot be equipped by Edge, but on the other hand, it's not a big deal. It would be overpowered... however, seeing Triton's Dagger can be equipped by Edge is useful since the INT bonus (+10) is useful.
Gigant Axe has a STR bonus of +10. I'm not sure if it has any other attributes at the moment.
I was incorrect with regards to row and Advanced Blade. I think the moon phase affected its damage output.
The strong attack power phase really increased the damage of the Sword and Fist band from it's normal 12k (or was it 16k? - the moon phases evade me sometimes), so it was upgraded to 22k damage. That was incredible IMO.
Tiger Claws are nice +10 AGI and +10 STR. You won't need that much STR boosting with Yang for the most part (let alone Ursula), but having them non-elemental is very important for the long run. If you need elemental claws, aim for the Dragon Claw (well, for Ursula anyways) or the Hand of the Gods (+10 AGI bonus is key there).. the latter probably is more helpful for the stat boosts, whereas the Dragon Claw does help killing dragons...
I need to check Loki's Harp's claim of racial dominance (particularly vs Flan), but its stat boosts are nice (+10 STR, AGI, STA).
TAY doesn't seem to add the "attack bonus" of having a second weapon equipped anymore... this is most notable when you equip the Adamant Shield. Oh well, the boomerang is the best "shield" you could want (from the back row of course).
:edit: I hate how I keep forgetting certain details... oh well.
Machine Break Band (Cecil+Cid) is great vs the Deathmask. 9999 is great... except this isn't as useful if Cid has a hammer. It's probably better reserved for Luca if you're going against them (or at least give Luca the stronger one, because she's faster overall).
King's Quad Band is incredible (Cecil, Yang, Edward, Edge). Did 16k damage (breaks limit) and healed a bit. The healing was around 700 or so, so I get the feeling the spell power is of a Curaja, only because I've seen such pathetic numbers when Tellah was around. I don't think it's Curaga level because the healing would have had a higher Spirit stat.... for that level of healing, you would need double the SPR stat that someone like Rosa would have... it could be in between.
I'm unsure if there was a limit in the Wii version (it sounds like it for some reason), but it might be a hidden gem considering people's dislike of Edward. :tongue:
I'm kinda experimenting with combos involving Luca+Rydia+Edge (Flare Tornado band) and I think that one includes Gekkou and Izayoi has potential. I referenced their healing band Phantom Lightflies and this is the best emergency healing you can get. It probably helps to not put resistant elemental equipment on Gekkou... especially since Izayoi has the best elemental equipment set ever...
Inferno is a much stronger version of Firaga, but the cheap version is Flare Tornado IMO (15MP vs Inferno's 40MP). Quake (30MP) is still better if you don't need the elemental aspect (or if they are floating...
Izayoi's Stealth Kill is great vs the Dust Mousse (with its freaking 254 Magic Defense).
Gekkou is technically a good alternative to Cid, but the Shuriken command probably puts him ahead of Cid, despite Cid's bands with Luca (which are probably more limited than you would realize).
Meteor is not Holy elemental. I tried using it on the Blue Dragon... so that's apparently not the case anymore. However, I'm not exactly sure what the spell power happens to be (I think it's 1000... it's either that or 800).
Loki's Lute (the Harp is probably a Wii reference) isn't effective vs Flan as far as I can tell... so it's the same as it was in FF4A. (Hint: The description lies.) For example, the Crystal Ring protects against Paralysis, but isn't mentioned by the description.
I bet the Crystal Mail is the same as it was in FF4... only a limit set of resistance. Don't believe it is another Ribbon, because it's probably not.
:edit: I've been juggling characters around looking for good combos and there hasn't been any really good ones to face off vs the Deathmask. I'm just convinced all these incarnate versions are evil.... but then you should already know that. :tongue:
Most of the time, the offense isn't as great when the Thunder Claw is introduced into the equation... well, specifically for Edge. BTW, the attack bonus is not applied to shields... to be clear. Two weapons will gain that attack bonus (which grows with more STR and levels).
I was trying to combine Cid+Luca into some useful combos, and outside of the dolls (which I have really underused since I'm reaching points where their ultimate drops are at hand...), there isn't many. It's easier to use Yang+Ursula with Luca just to attack Deathmasks with...
Right now, I have a Ceodore, Ursula, Luca, Tsukinowa, Porom combo at work... it's not that great (although, I need to test out a band of theirs first). I know I could sub in Palom for the ultimate 5-band combo, but Tsukinowa does provide a decent speed presence (if Ceodore or Ursula isn't picking up the slack) and he has a band with Porom that might be really powerful (40 MP)... so I'll test it in the upcoming boss battles.
While under auto-battle, there is a tendency that the spells that are bounced off the Proto Deathmask (probably including the regular one) bounces towards the middle slot. I've been taking advantage of this fact by equipping Luca with the Mystic Veil (it's good for something after all).
I got a Glass Mask early.. but I don't expect anything worthwhile from it (unless they reinstated the Immune property, which I should check).
I need more Protect Rings (and Dragon Shields to complete a set of 3 or 4... especially given that Luca and Cid won't really need them)... I'll also need more Pink Armor... I'm not entirely sold on the Blue Armor (especially since I'd have to develop more dragon-killing groups, which are easy to create for the most part)... especially since the Flan Princesses are more likely to spawn said drops. The Pink Armor is generally the solution to having a better-ish Ribbon (although, I'd have to test the resistance)... especially with the critical Paralysis resistance (very useful against the Duke Malboro in Depths B12, which attempts to Paralyze everyone).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 22, 2012, 01:24:58 AM
Wow! You got a Glass Mask? I was trying to get one of those for too long, but never did. I am curious to know how the Immune byte works in TAY, if at all.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 22, 2012, 05:31:11 AM
I have not gotten around to figuring it out yet.
The Immune byte is simple... when properly combined with elemental properties, it would reduce damage by that elemental (magic or physical) to 1. This is most notable with DK Cecil's weaponry vs Zombies.
The Adamant Armor has it (not quite sure in the PSP port, and IIRC they revamped TAY's version). However, it was limited that it was specific to elemental magic, not maxHP/currentHP based elemental monster magic where it would just follow the resistance rules for those formulas.
The Immune byte doesn't work like Absorb, where it attaches itself to resistance... it must be "built-in" to the armor itself like the Adamant Armor. The Glass Mask had this bit in the original... and it was removed in the WSC/GBA versions.
A side effect of the Immune bit was permanent elemental weakness in the original game... so as soon as you removed the Adamant Armor, you would be weak vs Lightning and twice as weak vs Fire and Ice (because of the whole Fire/Ice armor resistance/weakness behavior). It also had the side effect of providing 99% evasion (not magic evasion). I suspect it was intended for magic evasion, but since this feature was unfinished and revamped in later ports (like the absorb property), it kinda got lost.
Anyways, Makeshift Cannon sucks IMO unless you have multiple targets involved. The biggest problem with the Band is that you consume a lot of MP (58) to dish 10k or so damage, but it's really a multi-target based attack, so wasting it on a boss is just that... a waste. This is especially true when you can easily add damage through Holy or Flare from Palom and Porom.
Monster targeting tendencies change when you goto a 2-3 or 3-2 formation (using football terminology). The first number denotes the characters in front row and the second # denotes the # of characters in the back.
Twincast is literally the Black Magic Band from FuSoYa and Golbez with I think the actual chance of casting Meteor. The only difference is that it consumes more magic than the original band it is based on (Twincast is 40MP, whereas Black Magic Band is 30MP).
Delta Evolution is really overkill late game (Ceodore+Luca+Ursula), where the limit cap is reached pretty quickly. It might be a good idea to have the Limit Ring equipped, but it's easier to rely on the cheaper version of it Twin Rush (Ceodore+Ursula) where the MP pool isn't limited to Luca (in the Makeshift Cannon party, Luca is the one that has the least amount of MP).
In finding out how bad Delta Evolution, I've also found that Healing Wind (Porom+Tsukinowa) is insanely powerful. It's twice as powerful as Curaja (seriously, although this was at a moon phase that increased White Magic) and adds what looks like Esuna to the party. 40MP for two characters is really double the power.
I've subbed Luca out of my current party, which now has Ceodore, Ursula, Palom, Porom, and Tsuiknowa. I'll play around with the Rapid Fire Band (Ceodore, Palom, and Tsuiknowa, 20MP) and see if this combo looks promising.
:edit: Rapid Fire Band is good... low MP cost (20), but its potential can be unleashed with a target weak vs Fire and with the Limit Ring. However, it can be effective long term vs monsters that resist Fire as the damage dealt is stronger...
So Ceodore, Ursula, Palom, Porom, and Tsuiknowa is not too bad.
I'm onto Cecil, Palom, Porom, Kain, and Rosa. I want to look into Break Breaker Band (35MP) and see how good this is... will look into Team Baron for better insight later. Some particular bands I want to look into would be Sky Grinder (wondering if Double Jump with Ceodore+Kain is better). Porom and Rosa have a particular non-healing band (Holy Ray, 50MP) that hits every monster (think Double Holy before actually learning it). Then there's also particular bands with Cecil, Kain, Rosa (Trinity Crusade for 35MP and Effect Form for 20MP).
Substituting Ceodore in this group (to remove Palom or Porom, Palom would be a likely candidate actually since there are a few limited bands with him involved whereas Porom has a few), probably increase in the Holy based attacks... with some healing bands with Rosa.
I originally liked the idea of Cecil, Palom, Porom, Lenora, and Luca if only to make Cecil the designated healer for Palom for Ice Break... but having Ursula is better for Petal Whirlwind and Chakra does the same thing for free.
I had thought of Cecil, Golbez, Ceodore, with Palom and Porom, but that would just add only Golbez's limited bands, where it isn't that the most cohesive (well, specifically Golbez anyways).
Cecil, Palom, Porom, and Rydia has some potential.. with probably the third character would be Rosa... unfortunately this is already a mage heavy party. This would allow some special bands (Cecil+Rydia for Iron Flash, Rydia+Rosa for Holy Burst, Rydia+Palom for Thunderstorm, Porom+Rosa for Holy Ray).
Twincast's other spell is "Double Flare" as noted by the sound effects. It's technically worth the 40MP, but this hits the damage cap easily.
Glass Mask = worthless. Even the Thornlet in FF6 was more useful as a trade option...
If only the Gigant Axe was like, useful vs Giants... because it technically loses out to Thor's Hammer minus the elemental aspect (Thunder).
Thor's Hammer provides +10 STR, but also casts Blitz, so it probably uses the same value it did in FF4A (GBA port) for the spell multiplier (it's either 7 or 8). Finally, something that can kill black flan instantly.
I will look into combos dealing with Tri-Disaster (Palom, Rydia, and Leonora) and Wild Whip (Rydia, Izayoi, and Harley) soon.
:edit: Some updated list (in my playthrough) on physical based bands that ignore row: Cross Slash Prime Rapid Fire (I think) Vibra Plus Holy Cross (I think) Sky Grinder Spiral Blow Trinity Crusade Vibra Prime
Some bands that depend on row: Rocket Launcher (it actually depends on Cid's row, not Ceodore's). Machine Break (it actually depends on Cid's row, not Cecil's... not Limit Ring worthy) - damage is based on a combo of Cid+Cecil with a 25% damage bonus, and racial bonus applied when applicable.
One of the bad things about Team Baron is that it really lacks a black magic user... so it's very dependent on the multitargeted bands. It's easier to sub in Golbez or Rydia for black magic and some better alternative bands. Team Lunarian (Cecil, Ceodore, Golbez) with Kain and Rosa (or Team Young Baron plus Golbez) or Team Baron Mist (Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Rosa, Rydia) is definitely more optimal. "Baron Mist" is in reference to the Mist event... remember that Cid wasn't really involved in any of that and remember that part of Ceodore and Kain's journey involves Mist.
Many of the late game bands allow Ceodore to be in the back row, which allows him to not lose power in his bands.
Trinity Crusade does 15k damage and is the actual equivalent of Kain (Jump), Cecil (Fight), and Rosa (Holy). This is far better than Vibra Prime where it is more geared towards multiple enemies, and arguably be better than Makeshift Cannon for the damage that is dealt. Whatever you construct with Kain, Cecil, and Rosa is pretty damn good...
Effect Form is disappointing... as it is specific to the three characters involved with the Band. However, the MP cost for it can be justified (Curaja being 40MP, Protect is 9MP, Shell is 10MP).
Sky Grinder is very expensive for what you are getting out of it... (45MP). Trinity Crusade is better (35MP). Spiral Blow is close enough (22MP), but I think that has a limit...
Divine Heal in some ways looks like Cura, but it's really a combined every of Curaga from both Rosa and Ceodore. It is certainly affected by the phases of the moon. IIRC, in a favorable moon phase, it will also do Esuna or something (it seemed to work vs the Duke Malboro's paralysis attack).
:edit: Divine Heal was noted to be affected by the phases in a Walkthrough, so I'm not imagining things... :P
I assembled Team Girl Power (Rosa, Porom, Leonora, Ursula, Luca) thinking to use Petal Whirlwind... however I had a simple backup plan for Omega.
One of the bands I wanted to look into is Pure White Magic (Rosa, Leonora, Porom). It costs 99MP... so I wanted to look into the details...
It casts (MP consumed normally in parenthesis): Curaga (not Curaja) * 3 (the combined power of the three white mages) = 54MP Blink to all characters = 40MP for 5 characters, only 24MP for the 3 required characters in the band Haste to all characters = 125MP for 5 characters, 75MP for the bare minimum Float to all characters = 8MP
So in order to have done this band all in a separate fashion, you would have consumed 227MP total... despite needing 297MP combined (99MP * 3 characters). I'm surprised they didn't throw in Protect and Shell in the deal...
In any case, this was well worth it for Omega...
For Omega, all I did swap in was the Thor's Hammer and Lightning Claw. I put an Adamant Shield on Ursula for Charm resistance specifically... so basically the bulk of the damage was dealt by Ursula and Luca. The three white mages in the back row would heal or get rid of Omeguard as necessary (it's not like they hurt). I lost the first battle because I forgot to use Spider Silk... especially since the annoying beam attack is specifically 1/2 maxHP damage + Sap, which means that 2 consecutive hits is instant death (which means Curaga/Curaja healing is required immediately - Curaga is basically all you need). Note that Curaja IIRC takes more time to cast than Curaga (this might have changed in TAY, but this was standard behavior in FF4). Ursula would use Tenketsu or Attack (Tenketsu preferably) while Luca would use Big Throw or Attack, depending on the phase of the moon. This technique should simply work across the board as the requirements outside of good armor and good resistances will help out. It shouldn't need all the overpowered stuff like Crystal Rings and multiple Ribbons (or Pink Armor for that matter)... just Headbands (Confuse resistance), White/Luminous Robe (SPR Boost), Protect Rings (should have 2 at this point), Dragon Armor set (elemental resistance for Luca), Red Jacket/Red Cap (Fire), Cat Hood Ears (Ice), Mystic Veil (for SPR and INT boosts, 2 max) is all you really need. Having to juggle them is another matter altogether...
I didn't see Omeguard in action though, so I assume it was some reaction to magic attacks or something along those lines... I didn't see its "Arm" (damage+confuse) attack either. Oh well.
In any case.. the monster was harmless.
Hero Shield works exactly like it did in FF4A (GBA), outside of the modified stats (+5 all stats, 55% evasion). The bonus is the "Absorb" attribute, but it's not that useful on Cid or Luca because of their hammers... but great for the important 4.
The Lunar Mail I got was interesting to say the least. Another "vague" resistance set... which seems to include the following through testing: Paralysis, Confuse, Death, Break... all of the nasty stuff you'd find in the Depths. I read in a walkthrough that this was worse than the Crystal Mail? Have you actually seen the resistance list that the Crystal Mail provides? It's not even a half Ribbon replacement! The Lunar Mail is that and then some... (+5 STA bonus is meh).
Petal Whirlwind's description is actually in reference to Tenketsu, thus not actually referring to elemental weakness. This was tested vs the Duke Malboro (it has a Fire weakness) and was disappointed (no chance). Still, it's not a bad Band, but it's not as good compared to other better bands like Trinity Crusade.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 22, 2012, 06:03:55 PM
I wanted to mention this.. before I continue a bit.
I explained the significance of how Izayoi benefits from the female armor combo (Mystic Veil+Fire Scarf+Protect Ring) provides really awesome protection... well, here's a few more examples.
Harley is classified as a mage/medium armor hybrid. She's able to equip all the stuff Yang and Ursula is able to equip... So, these are your options: Shield: Adamant (Ice) Head: Cat Ears Hood (Ice), Red Cap (Fire), Mystic Veil (Holy), Gold Hairband (Lightning+dragon) Armor: Pink Armor (stat resistances), Red Jacket (Fire), Sage's Robe (speed+mage resistance), Luminous Robe (undead+stat+Lightning) Ring: not an issue :P
I haven't gotten the Robe of Lords yet to compare with.. not that it matters yet...
On this basis alone, you could equip Harley with all the elemental resistances you want (with some limitations) without using a Protect Ring... or a Ribbon for that matter...
Ursula's very similar... minus the Cat Ears Hood (for mages, not monks) and other mage equipment.. and she is a great fighter, so this is significantly more practical for her than it is Harley (Harley would benefit from a whip anyways).
So, if you really wanted to.. Luca would suffer offensively, but be able to absorb both Holy+the other elementals w/o actually touching a Protect Ring or a Ribbon (although, not both though, same as Ursula and Harley w/o the Absorb factor).
So, it's possible to survive a Holy apocalypse with Luca and Izayoi...
Although.. I wonder if there are some Darkness elemental attacks... specifically from the GhostTrain... (as stated before, the Ebony Robe is Darkness elemental, so it's limited to Golbez for the ultimate elemental protection).
Crystal Armor set is available to all the Lunarians+Kain (I guess being a Holy Dragoon does payoff a bit)... but the Lunar Armor set is literally just for the Lunarians.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 23, 2012, 01:25:42 AM
While trying to construct a team for Tri-Elemental Disaster, I ended up creating Team "Get A Room" (feel free to improve on this). Team consists of Edge, Rydia, Palom, Leonora, and Luca. It allows for other bands to flourish, like Flare Tornado and Inferno (although, Inferno has disappointed as of late). I could have subbed in Tsukinowa and Ceodore for Edge and Luca, and this would allow the Rapid Fire Band (Tsukinowa, Ceodore, Palom) and Thunder Wave Band (Ceodore, Rydia)... but ultimately a decent band would end up with a ninja somewhere along the line I guess.
Wild Whip combinations are tough to come by (Izayoi, Harley, Rydia)... I think I've managed to find something of worth by adding Gekkou and Edge. Healing would go through Gekkou and Izayoi's band Phantom Nightflies as it actually relies on Gekkou to take lots of damage (hint: don't give him any elemental resistances)... you will be able to get reasonable outside healing though. This will also allow you to use Edge's basic elemental attack bands with those two ninjas.
Wild Whip's damage however... leaves much to be desired... but I'm being affected by the moon (increased attack damage), but the damage bonus is 25% based on the combined effort, minus status afflictions (it doesn't seem to paralyze?) or racial modifiers (had all Dragon Whiskers) and probably not elemental modifiers either (imagine if they used the Ice/Flame/Blitz/Mist Whips together.. it would be incredible damage on a target if they were weak against one of the elementals...).
I will get around to figuring out the spell powerof Heal Pill and Heal Salve based on BSiron's fundamental healing algo ([WILL/8]+2) x ([WILL/2]+Z) where Z is the spell power of spell. Replace WILL (SPR) with INT and see what comes up...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 23, 2012, 11:58:26 AM
The actual damage bonus to Wild Whip is 50%... so it's kinda like automatically factoring in a critical hit or a racial modifier bonus, but applied as a collective bonus... so it's not too bad, but it's not great. For 4MP, this is worth pursuing since the cost is negligible.
I'm working on constructing a team to face off against Shinryu, and it looks like a slightly modified version of Team Ninja... it's Team Ninja Monk (with Yang, instead of Ursula). The only logistical reason for Yang was that he was lower leveled than Ursula... not that it's the sole reason, but I wanted to take a look @ Explosive Kick (Yang+Gekkou)... which was actually more impressive that I originally thought.
The most important find was able the spell power of Healing Pill and Healing Salve. It is nice though that they ignore Reflect status..
Outside of battle, Healing Pill and Healing Salve uses SPR to calculate the healing. In battle, they strictly use INT to calculate the healing. Odd, but true.
So, here's the important info: Healing Pill: 96 (twice as powerful as Cura) Healing Salve: 216 (50% more powerful than Curaga)
Consider this... the ninjas in general are able to do more with less... having less INT compared to the straight black magic users (probably 1/2 as much INT) but their Ninjutsu are far stronger than their black magic user counterparts.
With regards to Spirit, they grow a very low portion of it to the white magic user (about 1/4 to 1/3 less) and have their spells be proportionally stronger outside of battle.
However, the rule of thumb of Cure vs Curaja is still true... Healing Pill (6MP) will heal tons more than Healing Salve (21MP) outside of battle. If you plug in the numbers, you'll see why.
([WILL/8]+2) x ([WILL/2]+Z) = original formula
We will compare two different points... with 20 (early game) and 32 (late game) Spirit. Remember that truncation is involved (rounding down)...
Just on the basis alone, you can cast Healing Pill three times and easily EXCEED the cost of Healing Salve. Note that I've always recommended Cure for out of battle healing. You'll see why in a bit...
Compare this to Cure @ 99 Spirit (Cure = 16 spell power) ((99/8)+2)*(99/2)+16) ((12+2)*(49+16)) 14 * 65 = 910
For Healing Pill to reach the same level as Cure... ((X/8)+2)*((X/2)+96) = 910 Basic algebra required (distribution property) X/16 + 12X + X + 192 = 910 13 1/16 X = 718 209X/16 = 718 X = 54 (though, you would need to round up, so 55 is more accurate here)
It's unlikely to actually get to 54 SPR though, because most of the equipment the Ninjas get don't increase SPR. You are limited to Mystic Veil (+7 SPR), Rune Armlet (+3 SPR), Talisman (+5 SPR) and maybe a few others. So at best so far, you can only get +12 SPR and according to a guide, Izayoi is capped at a raw SPR stat of 34... and that's not even looking at the fact that Healing Pill (6MP) costs twice as much MP as Cure (3MP).
It is obviously beneficial long term to boost INT on the Ninjas since the healing spells in battle scale better, but they are not really true substitutes for healing from White Mages... Curaja (40MP) @ 288 Spell Power and usually a higher SPR stat (but not as cheap as Healing Salve @ 21MP)
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 24, 2012, 10:41:49 AM
Nova Dragon (Shinryu) is a pushover... only if you can survive the 4000+ damage Tidal Wave (which isn't elemental in the first place). So, this automatically limits the characters you can use... so the primary healer must be Rosa. Ceodore is not an acceptable alternative since you need the healing power of Curaja at work.
So, min level is 70... 75+ is probably recommended. Higher levels needed for other characters due to needing to cross the 4000HP threshold.
Characters I used and are most recommended are the following: Cecil, Kain, Rosa, Ceodore, Edge
Edge is the leadoff guy, so the best thing to do on his first turn is Spider's Silk. Otherwise you are asking for trouble.
Those characters that are listed have tons of HP (Rosa having the most of all White Magic casters), plus they have the best armor selection to face off against it. The Dragon armor set is the major reason.
The biggest nuisance is that it is resistant to Holy. Trinity Crusade unfortunately gets crippled because of that...
Effect Form is important, despite being limited to 3 characters that benefit. This is a quick way of getting Haste on all characters... Ceodore is free to caste Haste and if you feel like using the limited supply of Hermes Sandals, there you are.
Best moon phase to attack: Whatever creates White Magic+, Black Magic- (this group has no black magic, thus, all the benefits) I faced him during the White Magic-, Special Attacks+ phase... which really annoyed me.
** = Recommended
Roles assigned to each character: Cecil Primary: Must use a band with another character - Sky Grinder (Kain), **Vibra Plus (Ceodore) Secondary: Use Effect Form early, emergency item healing Summary: Cecil's Holy weaponry is useless, and using a band avoids this issue.
Kain Primary: Must use band with another character - Sky Grinder (Cecil), **Mirage Dive (Edge), Double Jump (Ceodore), **Cross Slash Prime (Ceodore) Secondary: Use Effect Form early, occasional Jump when MP is depleted (ideally, not using Holy elemental weapons) Summary: Keep Kain alive as much as possible, you might never know when that is...
Edge (Back Row) Primary: **Mirage Dive Secondary: Healing (either by Ninjutsu, or items), Spider Silk, Haste (Masamune) Summary: Edge is the fastest character (ever?), so take advantage of it. Mirage Dive applies Image to Edge, so this does help in damage reduction (unless you have Crystal Rings or Blue Armors available)
Ceodore Primary: **Vibra Plus (Cecil), Double Jump (Kain), **Cross Slash Prime (Kain), Divine Heal (Rosa) Secondary: Emergency Healing (Curaga), Haste Summary: Ceodore should be a healing or attacking backbone in your fight.
Rosa Primary: **Healing (Curaga, Curaja, Arise), Divine Heal (Ceodore) Secondary: Haste Summary: If you aren't at full health (at least over 4000HP), then you need to keep healing with Rosa.
The primary issue with this group is that Kain has the least MP of the group, so Cecil will need to spare a turn using Dry Ethers or Elixirs. If you are scared of your current HP situation, use a Megaelixir as needed.
The greatest "break" you get from superboss is when it uses Protect and Shell on itself. This is a great time to heal up or do what you need to it. Cross Slash Prime is a better solution for Ceodore+Kain due to MP consumption... but the best combo is really running Mirage Dive and Vibra Plus while Rosa sits back and heals. When done correctly, the final Meteor attack is actually the lamest thing that is used upon you (especially when Tidal Wave is stronger).
Shell doesn't seem to do too much in damage reduction, so just pretend it didn't happen.
Cecil has the most HP, so he should be able to survive most of the damage...
Doom isn't that big a deal.. just make sure someone that has shitty magic (Cecil/Kain) revives and another character assists in the healing Rosa (Arise), Edge (Healing Pill), Ceodore (Curaga).
Thermal Rays are overrated (Fire Scarf, Hero Shield+Dragon Armor piece should allow for great magic defense.. 2 Protect Rings should be more than enough on Rosa+Edge).
There isn't much need to substitute in this group, as I believe it is the most solid option. I'm sure there are other good combos, but this requires the fewest of levels. Using Yang or Ursula isn't a great idea since the Dragon Claw is Holy elemental, so it negates the benefits of the racial bonus.
BTW, trying to use the Thunder Claw's racial bonus on the Deathmasks is pointless. The Attack Power that is lost from using a claw is significant... especially since the damage bonus is 50%, not 300% (quadruple damage in regular FF4). The Mage Masher is still useful for that reason... leave the Claws to Yang and Ursula.
Equipment used for the battle (useful, but alternate options are fine): Cecil: Excalibur Hero Shield (elemental absorption) Dragon Helm (dragon+elemental resistances) Lunar Mail (good status resistance) Rare Band v2 (does it matter?)
Kain: Wyvern Lance (optional, Holy Lance should be OK) Dragon Shield (elemental resistance primarily, Adamant Shield is good alternative) Ribbon (got too many, I'm not sure how many you should have at this point... maybe 2?) Blue Armor (optional, need the racial resistance, Dragon Armor good alternative) Treasure Hunter v2 (does it matter?)
Ceodore: Wyvern Lance (optional, Defender should be OK) Dragon Shield (I got too many from the drops) Ribbon (self explanatory?) White Robe (SPR boost for healing, Crystal Mail is a decent option) Crystal Ring (rare drop, used specific for racial resistance)
Rosa: Artemis Arrows (rare drop, but since she's not fighting, it is irrelevant) Perseus's Bow (SPR boost) Mystic Veil (Gold Hairpin is a good alternative, SPR boost vs Dragon resistance) Pink Armor (White Robe could be used here) Protect Ring (elemental resistances)
Edge: Masamune (I forgot this weapon has Haste, which is very handy, will adjust the post, +3) Rising Sun (+10 AGI, allowing Edge to be wicked fast) Ribbon (or Red Cap, since not everyone has enough of these) Fire Scarf (Fire elemental absorb+) Protect Ring (self explanatory)
It's worth juggling the following equipment on Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore: Dragon Shield (elemental resistances, Dragon resistance) Lunar Shield (+5 AGI) Crystal Shield (+3 SPR, Undead resistance) Cat Ear Hood (+5 AGI bonus, Ice resistance, not for Kain) Dragon Helm (elemental resistances, Dragon resistance) Crystal Helm (elemental resistances, Undead resistance, +3 SPR) Lunar Mail (status resistances) Crystal Mail (limited status resistances, Undead resistance, +3 SPR) Dragon Armor (elemental resistance, Dragon resistance) Blue Armor (racial resistances, but hard to obtain) White Robe (+10 SPR, not for Kain, Undead resistance, best for Ceodore) Rings - Protect Ring, or whatever "relic" you think is useful, Crystal Rings are helpful, but obviously tough to obtain
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 24, 2012, 05:25:39 PM
Alright, I constructed a group that looks like a bunch of misfits (Golbez, Zangetsu, Tsuiknowa, Edward, Harley). It's amazing what you can learn in such a disaster.
Feast of the Land does cure Paralysis.. since I don't use it enough, I can't tell you much else.
Healing Weed also cures Paralysis.
Ultros (Orthros) must have some interesting custom messages for certain characters and character types... and I thought of... [spoiler]tentacle sex[/spoiler] in reference to some of what was said about Harley.
I was highly amused that Ultros was designed to retaliate to the spell caster based on what was cast. I found out by casting Firaga/Blizzaga/Thundaga from Golbez and got them sent back to Golbez... only to be humored by the fact that the Dragon Helm+Hero Shield combo covers this. I'm sure Holy is in the mix... but non elementals like Quake will have Flare as retaliation (not sure about Gale though, but probably retaliation with Flare).
The Ghost Train is interesting in the aspect that it does not fight, but relies on its Wheel (monster magic) attack to deal damage. Instead of what one could consider doing before the Scarmaglion Undead version Mt. Ordeals (switch rows before battle), the characters in the front row should actually be able to do some sort of attack from the back row, whether that be Jump/Big Throw (Kain, Zangetsu, Luca) or magic (Golbez, Edge, even Ceodore). Wheel is designed to punish you from changing rows, so damage is dealt based on what row you are in... so the characters in the back row take twice as much damage as those in the front row. Holy is just there to screw with you. Wheel is most definitely a custom spell based on the monster's attack power or something along those lines...
I learned a lot from Atomos... Meteor...
Meteor still has a spell power of 800. I did actually fight him on a moon phase that reduces black magic (25% reduction in spell power or damage... I'm learning towards the latter a bit). However, if you look at the bosses that use them, their magic stat is really high.. but the damage seems rather low.... so this spell was redone.
The spell itself does NOT use split damage, despite targeting all monsters like Quake. So, take a look at Atomos or the Nova Dragon's magic stat. Divide their magic stat by 5... and then you will get the spell multiplier that looks like what is normally expected. The math is consistent with the newfound behavior. It is actually a VERY bad idea to not have all the characters possible on the field... and it is WORSE if any of them are dead. This increases the power of Meteor significantly (because you would split between 4 or less characters) and nothing good comes out of that. I'm sure Meteor works the same way vs multiple monsters...
Shell... it does work... against Meteor (and the like, but not Wheel due to algo changes or something). The spell is cumulative and reduces the damage INTAKE by 1/8. It is capped @ 4 times so damage reduction can be maxed out at 1/2 tops. So Meteor can be dealing effectively with a spell power of 400 (like a multi-Flare)... but that doesn't really absolve you of having high magic evasion to actually reduce magic damage in general.
Under this new understanding, Protect works the same way... 1/8 damage reduction, cumulative with 4 casts to 1/2 physical damage reduction (it didn't affect the monster spell Wheel either).
Note that the moon phases will screw with the numbers, and that not all spell or physical damage will look like you're not gaining the benefits from Protect and Shell... it's just not the cureall for bad equipment or bad evasion/magic evasion or bad defense/magic defense.
BTW if I hadn't mentioned this year... Rydia is an AWESOME black hole for spells.
Wheel is literally a weaker version of the Antlion's Horn (or whatever it was called) attack... Attack * Spell Multiplier (spell multiplier of the Ghost Train is 11) * row (1 if front, 2 if back).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 25, 2012, 01:44:23 AM
My bad on a little of the Meteor and Ghost Train info... let me elaborate:
Meteor's spell power is really reduced from the original.. probably for the purposes of the Limit Ring. There is a spell multiplier reduction (it's either by 4 or 5) and because of that, so this makes the spell usable by monsters (the original formula would kill you outright) and reasonably usable for yourself w/o changing the overall dynamic. It does actually have the split damage benefit, but the spell "nerf" by the spell multiplier reduction is necessary for balance.
Ghost Train's Wheel is definitely powered by it's Attack Power. Apparently fighting it during the Attack moon phase increases its damage output by 50% (terrible idea) but it's more damaging than I thought.
Attack Power * Spell Power * 2
This is the same formula used in the Antlion and Needler (those rats with needles on them)..
Damage reduction can be made through having racial resistance against the monster. In this case, Mech (very few armor) and Undead (plenty of armor) are the resistances you will want. When you have it, damage taken is reduced by 1/2. Also, using Defend on the turn will allow reduction in damage from the attack (50% damage reduction). Row is not a factor in the damage formula (as it never has been for spells). Having racial defenses and using Defend on a turn does not mean damage is 0.. it's just reduced by 50% twice (so you'll be taking only 25% of normal damage or 75% reduction in damage, whichever sounds better).
Safe+Shell has no effect IIRC.
:edit: Harley for all intents and purposes armorwise is a Black Mage... which is all the more reason she would've been a Blue Mage of sorts...
Edward's Salve does actually recalculate split damage, as noted before. It is possible to heal 2 living people with the Salve command @ 9999 (20k healing split between all characters is a lot with the Economical Ring).
Looking at Undead resistance... only a small number of characters don't have it naturally: Edward Ursula Yang
Most of the spellcasters are covered with the Luminous Robe... and most of the fighters have the option to equip the Bone Wrist.. (includes all Ninjas and the heavy 6 - heavy 6 being Ceodore, Kain, Cecil, Golbez, Luca, Cid)
All of those listed have "Monk" based equipment.
Even the Dolls Calca and Brina are covered by the Sage's Mitre.
When factoring in the Blue Armor.. Ursula is screwed there.
Strange eh? Maybe she needs more training on Mt. Hobs...
:edit: It is possible to start a game with a Game Over. You must be located near the warp elevator to take advantage of this. Get someone killed, and then use the elevator to remove all live characters from the party. Now you have a party of 1 dead person. Next battle = game over. How did someone miss this??? You could probably save this disaster too...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 25, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
Ultima Weapon - A threat to who?
Rasp - I can't quite figure out its spell power, but it must be really high and/or ignores Magic Defense (I learn towards the former).
I used a party based on the original 5 and tested out the Final Fantasy Band. The band only seems to do 3k more damage than the Trinity Crusade Band (although, Sky Grinder looked worse because I didn't give Kain the strongest weapon available, so it might be related). 75MP for this isn't worth it IMO... even with the healing is actually Curaga based (fought where Black Magic was down, White Magic was up).
It's not worth having any Black Magic involved (despite the moon phase), the insane magic defense really calls for Meteor or Bahamut... the latter requiring you to continue forth, while Meteor takes forever to cast (Limit Band or Rapid Band v2? Go figure...).
I was running a 2-3 formation (Edge in the back with the Rising Sun), and it seemed like the monster liked attacking the edges (Edge and Rydia were there) and Flare in the top-middle slot (in between the topmost and middle slot). It seemed to like using Rasp on Edge (topmost slot).
A good team ideal for this would be Team Holy Monk with Rosa (Ceodore, Cecil, Yang, Ursula, Rosa). In addition to the wide attack, you could heal with Divine Healing with the White Magic+ phase or just do Curaga (Ceodore) followed by Curaja (Rosa). Yang and Ursula can do the band that afflicts Slow as necessary and attack together... then again, Cecil+Ceodore, Ursula+Ceodore, Cecil+Yang has plenty of two-character bands to penetrate through that defense.
Also, a good alternative would be Team of Kings+Rydia (Cecil, Yang, Edge, Edward, Rydia) for the King's Quad Band. You could potentially sustain this all battle with that band because of the healing, plus you could take advantage of Mirage Song to reduce the damage intake physically. Rydia would be the team's healer (read, item user) for the most part... though could attempt to use Asura as necessary (she might be better with the Elven Bow+spam Shell through that)... there are plenty to two character bands that includes Yang to consume minimal MP (Cecil+Yang, Edge+Yang, Edward+Yang, Edward+Cecil). Edge doesn't have many beneficial bands (even though he has plenty with Rydia, but are not powerful enough), but he can be the other healer (Healing Pill is can be boosted significantly with Triton's Dagger) or Haste maker (Masamune).
:edit: I believe Rasp or Magic Buster has a spell power of 96 or 100 or so. Its damage can be affected by Shell.
Also, I'm not sure if it is emulation related, but I was able to walk through the entire floor that the Ultima Weapon was in unscathed at one point.
One of the things about this game is that the next battle is "fixed" in the sense in what the next match is. This gets altered/adjusted after every battle, and can be easily be spotted through emulation of the old game. So, one of the random possibilities in the monster formation selection includes Doom Gaze in the floor of the Ultima Weapon. If you have already killed Doom Gaze, you can trigger the value that would have caused the Doom Gaze battle, but not fight Doom Gaze at all... in fact, the monster formation never occurs and the walking countdown (to the next battle) is frozen as far as I can tell. This can be fixed by fighting a battle above/below the Ultima Weapon floor.
It seems to me that the battle randomizer code doesn't "point" to a different battle formation when Doom Gaze is dead (it doesn't readjust the probabilities or whatever), so it literally gets stuck.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 02, 2013, 11:10:47 AM
On the Wii version of FFIVTAY there was a glitch to where you could be killed by DeathGaze and the game would load you as if you had won the battle, but if you didn't revive everyone the next battle would be an immediate game over. Did this glitch persist into the PSP version I wonder? It seemed so odd that they would have overlooked that.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 02, 2013, 12:23:37 PM
Well, I saved past that point, so it's unlikely to be tested anytime soon. Multitargeted Death is pointless when Ribbons go around...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 02, 2013, 12:34:31 PM
Heh, true. Deathgaze wasn't very difficult I did enjoy the other superbosses though. They took some special preparations (even though Omega seemed to take Forever, longer than Shinryu) I tried to find the bands on my own which... needless to say, did not go very well. I think they should have included hints or something, since anyone can go online and look them up, but to actually find them on your own or be gently guided towards them can at least give the player some feeling of accomplishment.
I still think they missed an enormous chance with Harley in the PSP version. It's clear they wanted her to be a mage. She has the stats To be a mage, but she's not a mage. They even planned on making her a Scholar with an ability which would deal x2 damage with damage items! Yet that too was scrapped for unknown reasons. I wonder, why did the makers of their own character, hate her so much? None of her unused abilities would have unbalanced the game (and heaven forbid that attack items be semi-useful!)
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 02, 2013, 05:57:10 PM
Finding the bands on your own is difficult, but seeing what they are, they are somewhat obvious, but not that easy. You could see some of these bands naturally (like Ceodore+Ursula or Calca+Brena+Luca), but the more obscure ones are killers (Tsukinowa+Porom although not so much, Gekkou+Yang).
I don't remember damage items being that useful in this game... so I can't say that I'd care that much in the first place.
Some notes: I spent some time with Team Hammertime (Cid, Luca, Palom, Porom, Leonora) facing off with most of the machines in B19 or so. First time was a disaster (well, with the body+Deathmask, and with a different team). After that, it was easy after reconfiguring characters to beat them.
Limit Ring really does double the potential... particularly if you are doing 15k min damage on a solo target.
Ice Crush isn't that great unless Black Magic or Special Attacks are boosted.... When you have the Limit Ring, damage can surge from 18 to 21k damage alone! There's a special damage solo bonus of 50% when there's one target on the field (more than simply does whatever normal damage that is involved). Damage to Palom is always 1/2 of his current HP, give or take 255 or so HP (less if Palom's current HP is low). I need to try the corner case that Palom would die from such a band...
Palom in the Sky has the same 50% damage bonus when the target is solo (must use the Limit Ring to benefit).
Consider this, you are consuming only 105 MP (Ice Crush) and 120 MP (Palom in the Sky) to do bulk of the damage. Remember that the elementals can factor in here.
Rapid Ring v2 seems to accelerate the times by reducing the wait by 3/4 (1/4 of normal wait)... great for Luca since she tends to be the slowest one (+3 AGI bonus).
Twin Stars (and its other accessory) only affects magic, and not bands, which was greatly disappointing.
Too bad Double Tomahawk doesn't add in the anti-machine property of the hammer (but I'm sure it doesn't add in the elemental aspect either).
:edit: Twincast seems to be powered by both Palom's INT and Porom's SPR... which is good. When it casts double flare, you can dish 20k+ with the Limit Ring.
Reconstructed Team Holy Fist (Cecil, Ceodore, Yang, Ursula) with Rosa to grind more against the machines....
20k damage through Sword and Fist.... which is really really nice (I doubt the Limit Ring affects this, but might as well mention it).
20k damage can be had by the lonesome 35MP Vibra Plus (Cecil+Ceodore)... however the requirement that there is one target on the field (outside of the Limit Ring).
Holy Cross as far as I can tell is Vibra Plus + Holy elemental... but I'll need to look deeper into it.
Both Yang+Ursula specific attacks do not gain the benefits of racial or elemental bonuses as far as I can tell (at least the former part).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 03, 2013, 11:06:30 AM
New party with Kain, Golbez, Edward, Gekkou, Izayoi.
Spiral Blow (Golbez+Kain) is the normal damage dealt by Kain and Golbez plus 50% (will need Limit Ring to take advantage of, but ultimately not worth it). It is certainly most affected by the moon.
It would be nice if someone would want me to look into certain combine-able skills and see how the math comes out... (please, good combinations requested too).
Phantom Lightflies healing is literally the combined HP loss of both Izayoi+Gekkou plus a 25% bonus, then split to all the characters. So if Izayoi+Gekkou has lost 5000 HP combined, the healing is boosted to 6250 from the bonus, then split to the # of characters that are alive (so, minimum 2, max of 5 of course). It is possible to have Izayoi+Gekkou to be self sustaining with probably one other character.
Final party will be constructed with Edge, Rydia, Harley, Tsuiknowa, Zangetsu... having virtually no anti-machine power.
:edit: For clarification, these parties are meant to grind against the machines to level 75 for all characters at a minimum... completed that, although the dolls have not been touched at all.
I subbed out Harley ASAP and put in Luca... that should allow for some decent combos.
Mecha-Kite allows Zangetsu to deal an additional 50% damage from his normal "Jump" (Human Kite). There is a 50% damage bonus if the target is floating (weak vs Wind). Skills is definitely affected by the special attack moon phases.
Gale Twin Break.. I don't know what to make of it other than a massive "Jump" on one target and the other targets seem to get 1/8 to 1/10 the damage of the major target... it sucks late game for sure.
Wild Moon seems to simply average the two's attack power or damage (Edge+Tsukinowa) and hits everyone with that. Useless or kinda weak when the target is solo.
Flare Tornado with the Limit Ring only seems to deal 12-15k worth of damage (when unaffected by the moon phase) and is affected by Black Magic and Special Attack moon phases. Damage is split between targets (which is fine when you don't have the Limit Ring) - great for 15MP.
Inferno is similar to Flare Tornado in the moon phases bit. However, damage is not split between targets (it's really just a Firaga that isn't affected by split damage in some ways).
At this point, Lightning Brain Buster (Luca+Rydia) seems to allow Luca to do 2 times the damage that she would normally do (not factoring in elemental weakness) and it doesn't factor in the weapon's elemental or racial properties. I assume the damage is really scaled a lot by Rydia's INT....
Broken Heart, despite not being a Wind elemental attack through the bow+arrow, is definitely affected by the Attack Moon phase... it's damage is Edge+Rydia's normal attack + 50% bonus (I think) and damage hits all enemies equally. No bonus for a solo target.
Right now, I'm trying to construct a group for the battle with Bahamut...
:edit: Alright, I'll go with Team Magi (Rosa, Rydia, Palom, Porom, Leonora). I couldn't quite find a great group to single target band with (as in a cap breaking one) and one that would involve Rydia but that was never meant to me.
Infinity - Obviously affected by White and Black magic moon phases... the worst phase is the one that neuters White Magic outright (boosts special commands).. and the best moon is one that boosts Black Magic outright... which cripples physicals, which is perfect. The phase the boosts White Magic and cripples Black Magic will still boost Infinity (since you have a 3 to 2 ratio of White Magic to Black Magic in the attack).
White Magic Crippled: 32k damage Normal: 40k damage White Magic Boost, Black Magic Crippled: 48-50k damage Black Magic Boosted: 52k damage
Front line characters would involve Rosa and Palom (at least Palom with the Adamant Shield, Rosa with a bow+arrow is fine). Rosa has the most HP of the bunch, followed by Palom.
Ideally, black magic boosted is better... for various reasons... I will list why in a bit...
The other bands that of relevance:
Tri-Disaster (20MP - Palom, Leonora, Rydia) - most affected by the moon... 21k @ the moon phase, 18k w/o the black magic boost... anything else cripples it - split damage applied, so to benefit, you will need the Limit Ring (primarily on Rydia IMO, as you'll see why) - potential can be reached if you can somehow boost Leonora's INT stat since she is the worst of the bunch.... and only for 60MP total...
Thunderstorm (Palom+Rydia) - didn't use enough - not really powerful...
Pure White Magic - explained earlier - probably optimal for this group, note that Leonora is the first to have MP problems of the group in general...
Holy Ray (50MP - Porom, Rosa) - it's dual Holy, with split damage... probably better for massive monster killing instead of Limit Ring usage... almost 20k w/o White Magic moon boosting...
Holy Burst (55MP - Rosa, Rydia) - imagine what Holy+Flare can do together... same as Holy Ray, and powered by different aspects so the White Magic boost+Black Magic nerf shouldn't affect this negatively (just the White Magic nerf probably would)... it's better than Holy Ray since Flare uses a higher base damage... but I'm unsure if that's actually being used (it seemed to work better than Holy Ray overall)... split damage a small negative and Limit Ring required to maximize potential... 20k easy...
Sprite Bred (40MP - Porom, Leonora) - poor man's version of Holy Ray for one target... it's technically a waste of a Limit Ring because Leonora's SPR is not at the same level as Porom's (let alone Rosa) despite it being Leonora's better stat... you are better off using Leonora for Dual Holy through Twincast and Twin Stars for keeping MP usage in check and deal effectively the same amount of damage as this band with the Limit Ring... got 15k or so damage from it... which was very disappointing...
Twincast (40MP - Palom, Porom) - as explained earlier, the Limit Ring would be more useful if you got dual "Flare" being cast as that would hit 20k easily...
I would like to mention it is very difficult trying to juggle all the equipment you would need to move around, as the best armors for Black and White mages are taken first.. so make sure those who get the good stuff really benefit from it.
Rydia with the Limit Ring is most beneficial here, since Holy Burst and Tri-Disaster can be most beneficial in a damage/MP conscious crowd. While Tri-Disaster can be run, Rosa+Porom can use Holy Ray or do other stuff...
Alternatively, you could run Holy Burst with Twincast with Lenora to do other work... also Holy Burst and Sprite Bred with Palom for the extra damage through Flare or Quake....
:edit: Fought Bahamut... it wasn't too bad.
The good: 3 White Mages with Arise is better than none.
The bad: Fought this battle when Black Magic was favored... especially when that's primarily what the Mysterious Girl relies on... and the only White Magic I've seen to date is Haste (Holy isn't in their repertoire?)
So, the leadoff Meteor pretty much killed everyone outside of Rosa, which was great. Most of the time was spent doing the following:
Rosa Primary: Reviving the White Mage that has Dualcast (Porom or Leonora), Revive Porom if neither has Dualcast (Porom has more HP) Secondary: Healing Tertiary: Holy
Leonora Primary: Reviving/Healing Rosa first, Dualcast Revive on others (if applicable) Secondary: Dualcast Curaja and Float to avoid Quake, otherwise Healing Tertiary (if applicable): Dualcast Holy
Palom Primary: Spider Silk (as a counter to Haste or no-Haste) Secondary: Flare (Dualcast Flare if applicable)
Rydia Primary: Spider Silk (same as Palom) Secondary: Flare
Dualcast for Porom or Leonora can make certain battles more forgiving. I guess this is one of them. Black Hole doesn't affect Bahamut (whether under Haste or Slow), so that's good news.
Note: The real trick to Deathmasks, is using the multi-Reflect to cast (preferably Dualcast) Slow. That makes your life infinitely easier. I didn't really abuse that in regular FF4, whether it was the GBA port (specifically the Euro version) and the PSP port. This is great to screw with their spell timing as they will occasionally hurt themselves with their spells towards the end of their spell sequences. This is also great when Slow stacks to a degree.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 04, 2013, 12:35:06 AM
Ok...
I've tweaked my setup to improve damage... here's what I've got dealt with Infinity..
White Magic Crippled: 40k damage Normal: 48-50k White Magic Boosted, Black Magic Crippled: 50-52k Black Magic Boosted: ?? (not tested yet)
I gave Leonora the Mystic Veil... so that should help greatly. Swapped in Triton's Dagger over the Assassin's (boosting INT over AGI).
Rune Staff is still better than the Sage's Staff, especially with the SPR nerf the Sage's Staff got (both are +10 SPR). Seraphim's Mace is still the best stat boosting thing for Leonora (+15 SPR).
I hate the fact that the Deathmask is considered the "back row" when it is on the Full Body.
Already collected two Phase Helms... not much else unfortunately.
It is great that Infinity effectively insta-gibs solo Deathmasks.
It seems that when the right arm or leg is alone, they start to use monster magic that inflicts statuses... reminds me of the dolls, except more sad.
:edit: Infinity Black Magic Boosted: 52-56k
This is exceptional, considering you are consuming 300MP to deal that.. when you have to compare against Flare+Holy from every character, plus Dualcast, minus the Limit Ring, and have to factor in Reflect status... but you don't gain the benefit (or hindrance) of split damage.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 06, 2013, 11:38:31 AM
I'm still tweaking and gaining more levels to keep tweaking further...
Every multiplier increase when you consider each character does improve Infinity a bit, as it gives averaging 500 points of more damage to spread around.
25% is also applied to the spell's accuracy, in addition to the spell's damage in the appropriate moon phases...
If you are able to Flare or Holy will deal 9999 when cast, the moon affects damage by 25% going either way... so think of it that 2500 pts of damage is added or lost during the moon phases... so it doesn't go unnoticed when Infinity is used.
Lenora best benefits from the Sage's Robe, Mystic Veil, and Seraphim's Mace (SPR goes to the upper 80s-low 90s with INT at the best you can realistically get it at). I'm sure an Adamant Shield helps too...
I've mentioned this before about Reflect, but there is a certain bias for Reflect to bounce towards the primary monster on the field. Testing Slow vs the Deathmask+Body, the Body is the primary target and gets most of the accumulated Slow hits. It is something to think about when you are trying to bounce spells to more than one monster on the field. Normally it should be a 50-50 proposition (with 2 monsters), but it really isn't.
Also, I've described how the Behemoth in Edge's Tale seems to hit hard or miss... well, it happens with magic as well. As soon as more characters in Team Magi are getting a 5x multiplier, they start to be able to evade both Deathmasks initial Holy hit (same with Flare), but it has the probability of their magic evasion to some degree... otherwise they take full damage. I don't know how exactly this works, but having a matching magic evasion multiplier to the monster's magic multiplier is key and having high magic evasion helps a lot more. You could say the same for physical hits where the defense multiplier must match the monster's "unknown" attack multiplier and having high evasion helps. Being in the back row probably reduces the defense multiplier requirement by 1/2.
Increasing the defense or magic evasion multiplier increases the chance to miss...
:edit: I forgot to mention, I picked up only half of the dolls final equipment set... now I have a pair of Phase Cutters, and already have a pair of Phase Helms, and only one Phase Knuckle...
:edit: There are some interesting dummied items listed in the Item List guide (in the TAY section of Gamefaqs)... some drop or event item drops, perhaps to allow changing the outcome of their fate or at least signify in some later event that you killed them...
The "Ring/Amulet of Memories" listings must be for the death of Golbez... or something. It couldn't be anything else... could it?
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 06, 2013, 04:00:18 PM
Hmm, I never looked at the unused things in TAY since I heard that most of it was carried over from FFIV, but there are some interesting things... I have to wonder what the Ring and Amulet of Memories revolved around. It may have involved Golbez's death, but he didn't carry anything like that to my knowledge. It's a thought that the possibility of failure in specific stories may have been much higher at one point (like losing Calca and Brina) I know you can lose the four ninja's in Edge's Tale. It may be that there was an opportunity for many non-plot essential characters to die within their original tale.
What really interests me in these unused items are items that seem to refer to the Eidolons. Would those have dealt something with freeing them from the Mysterious Girl's control?
:edit: This is odd, this "Ground Helm" it seems like it would have been a pretty good item. 14 Defense, +5 Speed, and +5 Spirit to help Cid and Luca who have very little in the way of magic protection and get them a possible additional Speed Multiplier? Why was it "Removed from this title" last I checked it wasn't in FFIV.
So many working properly item slots... what a waste. I thought FFIVTAY had a pretty good equipment pool, but it could have been even more numerous.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on January 06, 2013, 04:18:11 PM
Ground Helm is probably a horrible mangling of the Grand Helm from FF4 Advance. After Years' translation is pretty lousy in places where they couldn't lift from the DS translation.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 06, 2013, 04:20:03 PM
Bad translation (in GBA, or PSP)?
It's like a glorified Diamond Helm+Armor really (one of which was used in the Interlude, the Grand Helm).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 06, 2013, 04:23:40 PM
Which is surprising considering it was the same fellow who worked on both, last I checked. Well, I guess it's pretty clear where his priorities lay. Yeah, it's clearly the Grand Helm now that I think on it. But even FFT didn't screw up Grand and Ground in such a manner, oy... I wonder if that's the odd way how Insect/Lizard became Demon as well.
In any case I have to wonder if it's any different for the PSP version of FFIV and FFIV TAY? In terms of items I mean, has any hacking begun on those at all?
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on January 06, 2013, 04:24:52 PM
The original After Years translation in the Wii version. I don't know if they improved the PSP version any, but I doubt it, given they're still using the GBA script based on the PSX version, which was somehow less accurate than the original FF2 SNES script. One thing they did do is lift all of the terminology from the DS version, but the Grand Helm isn't in that version.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 06, 2013, 07:47:30 PM
Which is surprising considering it was the same fellow who worked on both, last I checked. Well, I guess it's pretty clear where his priorities lay. Yeah, it's clearly the Grand Helm now that I think on it. But even FFT didn't screw up Grand and Ground in such a manner, oy... I wonder if that's the odd way how Insect/Lizard became Demon as well.
I have no idea... they kept changing what they called it during the GBA ports (Ghoul/Spirit) so go figure. One of the more notable name changes was Flame Dragon or Inferno that Rubicante uses in the GBA port... so I cannot imagine all the changes made (if there are in the EU version of the PSP, go figure, I'll probably find out sooner or later).
Quote
In any case I have to wonder if it's any different for the PSP version of FFIV and FFIV TAY? In terms of items I mean, has any hacking begun on those at all?
No idea on the hacking... there are simply issues just emulating it...
For the items, there is a whole lot of nerfing (have you even been reading the "blog"? :P ) There's a crapload of overpowered stuff in the GBA trial portions that had to be nerfed outright to make them reasonably usable in this port. For instance, the Hero Shield has the same property... it has the Absorb property. GBA has it +15 to all stats, where TAY has +5 to all stats (obvious nerf). Ragnarok is +15 to STR, STA, SPR @ 200 Attack Power in FF4... it's only 160 Attack Power and +10 STR, STA, SPR in TAY.
There are a handful of GBA (Advance specific stuff)-equipment carryovers to TAY that are notable: Hero Shield - as mentioned earlier Hypnocrown - Palom's specific equipment, now made as general black mage booster (+5 INT) with exceptional magic evasion boost (same stats I think actually) Note: It was known as Coronet in the GBA port (in reference to FF6), but renamed relative to the FF5 equipment version. Cat Ear Hood - Porom's specific equipment, now made as general white mage AGI booster (+7 AGI) vs (+5 AGI in GBA's port) Red Cap - Edward's specific equipment, now made as general med class type equipment (Monk, Ninja) +10 STA in original vs +5 in TAY Red Jacket - again, Edward specific, for med class, +15 STR, AGI in original, +10 STR, AGI in TAY Brave Suit - Yang specific aka Courageous Suit, TAY uses same stats as original Robe of Lords - Porom's specific equipment, made for White Mages, same stats (aka Lord's Robe) Sage's Robe - Palom's specific equipment, made for Black Mages, same stats Mystic Whip - Rydia's specific equipment, made for whip carriers, +15 INT original vs +10 INT for TAY (aka Mist Whip) White Tiger Mask - Yang's specific equipment, made for med class, same stats (aka Funny Mask) Mutsunokami - Edge's specific equipment, made for ninjas, same stats Perseus's Bow - Rosa specific equipment, made for bow+arrow users, +15 SPR original +10 SPR Tiger Fangs - Yang specific equipment, same stats Dragon Claws - Yang specific equipment, same stats Loki's Lute - Edward's specific equipment, +15 STR, AGI, STA orig, 150 attack power vs +10 STR, AGI, STA, 98 attack power (remember that racial bonuses are crippled) Apollo's Harp - Edward's specific equipment, same bonus, 98 attack power original vs 60 attack power Rising Sun - Edge's specific equipment, 80 attack power original vs 50 attack power, same bonus Godhand - Yang specific equipment, +15 STR, AGI, STA orig vs +10 STR AGI, STA Triton's Dagger - Palom specific equipment, made for all knife users, +15 INT vs +10 INT, other bonuses the same Seraphim Mace - Porom specific equipment, made for all staff users, same stats Thor's Hammer - Cid specific equipment, +15 STR, 190 attack power originally vs +10 STR, 140 attack power Assassin Dagger - equippable on Porom in FF4A, but fixed in TAY, 135 attack power originally vs 85 attack power Gigant Axe - +15 STR, 200 attack power originally vs +10 STR, 150 attack power
I'm not sure if that covers them all.. (was checking FAQs)
Revamped equipment based off original FF4: Excalibur - 160 Attack Power -> 120 Attack Power (same STR bonus) Ragnarok - 200 Attack Power -> 160 Attack Power (+15 STR, STA, SPR to +10 STR, STA, SPR) Holy Lance - 110 Attack Power -> 140 Attack Power (yes, a buff) All bows - all revamped in TAY to 75% acc instead of the weak acc it naturally has in the original (didn't scale well correctly as originally envisioned) Stardust Rod - +15 INT -> +10 INT Sage Staff - +15 SPR -> +10 SPR White Robe - +15 SPR - > +10 SPR Minerva Bustier - +15 STR, AGI, STA, -15 INT, SPR -> +10 STR, AGI, STA, -10 INT, SPR
I may have missed a few...
Also.. I'm surprised they didn't add a +15 INT piece of equipment like Asura's Rod (which is technically a contradiction since she casts only magic so you'd actually expect a Staff). Leviathan would make more sense despite not being a mage exactly...
So... meh.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 06, 2013, 10:15:56 PM
Quite an exhaustive list, yes I have been keeping up with your playthrough. I did not know about the Infinity band but that kind of damage seems absolutely insane. I recall giving Dualcast personally to Palom with the Limit Ring so he could double cast Meteor for roughly 25,000 damage total. I'm not sure what would survive the Infinity band you have set up except for bosses.
Also I was referring to unused equipment/commands. If they cleaned up the game at all or if they perhaps added more unused items for plans they couldn't finish.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 07, 2013, 10:43:04 AM
Dualcast is just not that useful on Palom unless it's double Flare... you would do 66 to 75% of the damage @ 50% of the MP and @ 75+% less time spent.. The math never agrees with Meteor IMO.
There's so much better stuff you can do with the Limit Ring... (I have Rydia having a field day with Bahamut as it is).
You could do Ice Crush + Palom in the Sky and that would produce more damage (with the Limit Ring) in the same amount of time (I haven't tried to compare the timing, but I love the combo itself) and it would costs less MP (well, in terms of Palom's MP pool).
Well, the opportunity is there... and I've already put Harley is #3 in the worst character list in my mind (Dolls being in the top 2).
Also, I think the amulet and bracelet could be a consolation prize for not salvaging the dolls. Personally I have no idea how one got from Golbez using them for evil to, just a pair of scary evil (and generally not useful) dolls. Of course, the Golbez event never explains how the Calcabrena was created if one doll is alive... it's like some hackish creation... because then it can change back into the complete set...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 07, 2013, 12:35:49 PM
I think I was fighting the secret boss's final form and didn't know of any of those sorts of bands, so I thought why not try to use a Double Meteor? Eh, it worked.
As for the dolls, it's clear that they were Luca's to begin with. She mentions them in FFIV. For what its worth Dwarves have Tanks (which they can somehow get to the Overworld) so old Calcabrina may have just been a piece of Dwarvish Technology, twisted to evil (and brought to sentience) for Golbez's purposes.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on January 07, 2013, 07:24:09 PM
I always assumed Cid airlifted the tanks to the overworld with that fleet of Enterprise clones he somehow managed to outfit every overworld nation with while being bedridden in the underworld.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 07, 2013, 07:26:57 PM
Two things I'd like to mention:
I keep forgetting that Ursula can equip the Queen's Whip. Despite this not having any statistical benefits (Monk power overrides weapon attack power anyways), it allows Ursula to hit from the back row w/o requiring the Reach Ring... which is a very good compromise for the Sword and Fist band party setup.
Combining Jump (or Human Kite) in certain bands allows you to do incredible damage during the special attack moon. Jump = double damage (x2) and the special attack moon bonus is 25% (x1.25). With basic math....
100 * 2 * 1.25 = 250
This means that potentially you would do an extra 50% damage just on the Jump boost alone! Pretty much any band with Jump is simply more deadly from this bonus alone... which means Kain is always a good candidate with the Limit Ring in bands involving Jump (like Spiral Blow with Golbez). Factoring that that the damage is then boosted by 50% just using the band (250 * 1.5 = 375), you are doing almost quadruple damage than you would using the Fight command...
Note: Mirage Dive has a 50% damage bonus...
It makes more sense to go with Ceodore's Double Jump (35MP) than Sky Grinder (45MP)... Ceodore might be weaker than Cecil, but he has a greater MP pool to work with and Kain is still doing the heavy work on the monster... all doing this using 10MP less.
BTW, with regards to the dolls... I'm trying to figure out how they can self-replicate in the Calcabrena battle.. that's was the point of the rant.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 10, 2013, 06:47:50 PM
Blah blah blah...
Yea, I beat the game. Woohoo! Who hasn't? :tongue:
Some notes: Multiply (I think) seems to attack all characters with a physical based attack, but it can be easily blocked through Blink status. Explode (I think) is magic based... since my party is constructed with the classic 5, the girls didn't suffer as much as the guys.
I used Mirage Dive (Kain with the Limit Ring) a bit more than I imagined as it was the goto combo I liked best.
Here's an awesome exploit of the "Transform" system.
The Creator will not use it on his own... you have to use a Band or Summon or probably neutral elemental spell (Flare) to change elemental weaknesses.
I had Cecil equipped with the Ragnarok and he's kinda useless until you realize the damage he is dealing is double than he normally does. Once that is known... one huge smack with Trinity Crusade... was awesome (32k damage).
Note: This would work with Palom in the Sky with Luca with the Thor's Hammer. Since I've done 18k before with the band... doubling that would be gold.
Fought him @ White Magic+, Black Magic- (Rydia would be limited to summons).
Auto-Reflect could be considered overpowered... then there's Edge who's much better than that.
Rosa healing is probably the most important aspect.... in fact you better gamble correctly to use Trinity Crusade (since it is elemental to begin with), so Haste on Rosa is most beneficial early on (I actually complain about slow healers... with good reason). The White Magic moon phase helped.
Megaflare-only mode was annoying. I hadn't tried Reflect, but the problem is that it would be difficult to heal under Reflect (if there were bands that did it better, this team isn't it). I'm sure Shell is nice... except that would actually require Rosa to spare a turn.
I remember reading how Edge was frail (this makes no sense to me). There's a reason why the game provides a crapload of Boomerangs for the sole purpose of PUTTING HIM IN THE BACK ROW.
I forget what this "balls attack" was named, but it seemed to always target Edge (topmost slot). The paralysis+damage attack (must have been lifted from the Squids or FF5's version of the same type of attack) seems to target the bottommost character in the group. This was in a 3-2 configuration.
I do not remember any specific elemental used, so elemental protection is overrated... magic defense is kinda poop (it has been since the original) but magic evasion is still king!
Alright... I'll have a better summation of the entire system for later... should be pretty easy to make out.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 10, 2013, 09:58:14 PM
So... here's the basic formula... this is not perfect or totally accurate but if you have better ideas... please share.
If Attacker uses Aim, set Attacker's Accuracy = 99 (although it is probably set to 255 internally). If Attacker is Blind, set Attacker's Accuracy = 0.
If Attacker is in back row w/o back row compatible weapon, Accuracy = Accuracy * .5 (both monsters and characters) If Target is in back row and Attacker is not using back row compatible weapon, Accuracy = Accuracy *.5 (both monsters and characters)
If Accuracy Multiplier < 0, Skip All Steps and Miss! If Accuracy Multiplier < 1, Test Chance To Hit (Attacker's Attack Multiplier * Accuracy = probability to hit) On success: Accuracy Multiplier = Attacker's Attack Multiplier * .5, Otherwise, Miss and skip all other steps. (for low accuracy weapons like the Lilith's Rod, this is applicable)
Note: For monsters, evasion is still zero AFAIK, with possible exceptions to the rule (Cagnazzo and Barbariccia and possibly other monsters)
Raw Damage = Basic Damage * Accuracy Multiplier
Then factor in all damage modifiers:
If Attacker is Mini or Toad, Damage = 1, Skip All Other Steps If Target is Mini or Toad, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 2 (actually, I think the defense holdover of dropping it to zero might still happen, but I barely got to test it)
If Attacker is Cursed, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 If Target is Cursed, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 2 (For cursed testing, I'm not actually sure this is correct, it could be applied earlier).
If Target has matching racial weakness to equipped weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 1.5 (for characters vs monsters, only one racial match will apply) If Target has matching racial resistance thru armor, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 (for monsters vs characters, only one racial match will apply)
If Target has matching elemental weakness to equipped weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 2 (for characters vs monsters generally, only one elemental match will apply) If Target has matching elemental resistance to equipped weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 (for both characters and monsters, only one elemental match will apply) Note: Elemental weakness still takes precedence to elemental resistance when it comes to weapons.
If Attacker is in back row w/o back row compatible weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 (both monsters and characters) If Target is in back row and Attacker is not using back row compatible weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage *.5 (both monsters and characters) (yes, lacking back row compatible weaponry hurts you double).
If Target has Protect applied, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * (1 - .125 * X) X is the # of times Protect is applied, and is capped @ 4.
If Attacker dishes a critical hit (< 5% probability I think), Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 1.5 Note: It is possible to dish a critical hit, and totally miss. Critical hits will stack with Tenketsu, Focus, Jump, Human Kite, Big Throw, Aim (don't bother expecting it) Special command multipliers: Focus = Raw Damage * 2 Tenketsu = Raw Damage * 1.25 Jump = Raw Damage * 2 Human Kite = Raw Damage * 2
For magic, it's pretty much the same.
I believe the only rule that's different is the following: Meteor cast by the enemy must apply the split damage penalty of 5 regardless of the # of targets on the field (both alive or dead).
Apply 1.25 to the Modified Calculated Damage (add or subtract from the Raw Damage, depending on the phase of the moon)
There are also special band rules:
1) In attempting to calculate the damage, you must break the attack into its bare components, ignoring ANY racial or elemental bonuses that the weapons provide. Do not factor in critical hits.
2) Most attack/physical bands will automatically apply a 50% damage bonus... so apply 1.5 to damage to the sum of the individual attacks.
3) Many bands will apply an elemental aspect to the attack, so they are generally factored in only there. Apply double damage (*2) to the damage for elemental weakness and/or half damage (*.5) to the damage to elemental weakness. Attacks with multiple elementals will stack the elemental modifiers (so, don't use your elemental bands on the Blue Dragon!). The special case of Cecil+Cid's Machine Break will try to deal bonus damage (like, maybe 2 times), then adding probably a 1.5 machine bonus. I'll have to make sure this is happening.
4) For those bands that don't quite seem to fit anywhere, you try to base it on the commands they occur with... White Magic will imply Spirit whereas Black Magic will imply Intelligence. If the spell effect you see is Holy-like, it probably is.. just like Flare. Healing will generally be SPR based. You should be able to tell who does what in any band.
5) The moon phase can affect spells more dramatically... like Infinity. Just cancel each offending bonus counters out (White Magic+, Black Magic-)
6) As mentioned before, Jump/Human Kite is INSANE with the damage bonus from the moon... but it's equally crippling.
7) Row does affect most physical based bands. Equipping back row compatible weapons or simply not targeting from/to the back row helps.
Damage will still round to 9999 unless provided with the Limit Ring or the natural limit break it provides.
If the attack is weapon based, apply all status effects from the weapon onto the enemy assuming no status resistance (if it has a compatible resistance, it will fail outright). Hint: Status effects generally don't work on bosses...
:edit: I have a headache just typing this up. I need the sleep badly. Comment as you wish.
:edit: Added back row stuff, added Protect, etc etc
There probably should be an accompanying spell damage algo, but the simplicity of it is that the damage range is significantly lower (25% variance) but added variance to spells that are normally fixed.
:edit: Added more back row stuff, and one more golden rule about bands.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 11, 2013, 12:45:11 PM
As one would expect it seems pretty similar to FFIV. But I don't recall being able to get Critical Hits with things that weren't the fight command in normal FFIV. Also great research on the band data. Was Curse changed at all from FFIV to FFIVTAY? I can't quite recall that Damage multiplier in FFIV, then again in FFIV only one or two enemies used Curse in the first place so it was a non-issue.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 11, 2013, 04:52:16 PM
I've noted that specifically in the PSP port that "various" things from the original has been tweaked in the FF4 portion. Sometimes they are not as meaningful (status resistance in battle), but it's kinda hard to miss the flash for critical hits (unless you black out or have a seizure).
Curse has changed... I used it explicitly on flan (Golbez's/Lunarian's Tale) and I could still not damage them with the Defender. That's the only reason why I remember it as such.
It wasn't a Damage Multiplier in FF4.. it was an Attack Power Modifier (and Defense Power Modifier). Curse is limited for the few you pay attention to (the sword bearing monsters usually found in FF4's Land of Summoned Monsters and reddish dragon skeleton monster in the Lunar Subterrane).
The formulas are not the same... because the fundamental chunks involved are moved around and redone. They have a very different play in how you take damage (you'd have to put some statistics into it). For instance, the TAY coding ensures you will take damage, unless you're in the back row with a shield or if you have magic damage, you'd have to have insane magic evasion...
Now that I think about it, I need to add some more stuff...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 12, 2013, 01:43:13 PM
Alright... some Haste/Slow notes
1) It isn't stackable. Don't bother asking me why. Using Slow twice on a target does not slow it down further - checked it with the ATB race of sorts.
2) Slow negates Haste, and vice versa. It is cheaper to use Dispel to remove Slow status than it is to Haste. Bands that inflict Slow or Haste will react in the same manner.
3) Spider Silk is double powered Slow... like Hermes Shoes for Haste. Not only will Spider's Silk remove Haste, it also applies Slow. However, since Slow isn't stackable, one use is enough in most cases. The best benefit is that it ignores Reflect...
4) Double Pressure is still a White Mageless team's expensive Slow. I still have no fucking clue how Golbez looking silly allows Cecil to cast Slow.
Subsequently, I found that Sap only deals 40 damage. This is unaffected by Slow or Haste.
In some experimentation... Ultima Spark is kinda like having a Holy+Flare type of attack, but actually being non-elemental (I thought it wasn't for a bit) as this was tested against the magic absorber itself, the Blue Dragon. Limit Ring makes this useful.
Advanced Blade is non-elemental as far as I can tell... Golbez depending on his INT can add to the damage that a combined Cecil+Ceodore can do by like 10k damage. I don't think there's a bonus here, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 14, 2013, 06:10:19 PM
I forgot to mention that Haste seems to increase the ATB speed by 2... and Slow seems to decrease the ATB speed by 1/2. Chances are it could be more or less... depending on the AGI of the character in question...
So I'm kinda grinding some levels to 80 or so, and primarily focusing on boosting the dolls with mostly half of their complete phase equipment (missing shield+armor).
When you look at the fact that the Phase Cutter has the same attack power as the Ragnarok... it's really nasty.
So... converting semi-lame scary dolls to the reviving Chucky and his bride is what I'm seeing damage-wise. This already moves them behind Harley as the worst characters in the game.... possibly surpassing Edward...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 15, 2013, 12:40:50 AM
Mystic Waltz is kinda interesting..
75% of the time, it does a multitarget cast of Confuse and Silence. It's not a bad utility status attack and the spells will fail to cast if the targets are immune (at the very least, if the monster is only resistant to one of the statuses, the other will still apply).
25% of the time, the bird is the word. The small chocobo that is used in Confuse simply rains down like it was some sort of Meteor... and hurts every target on the field. The damage seemed to be powered by Calca and Brena's combined attack (+50% bonus) and it seemed to do less damage when the target had defense... like the Flan... but it still hurt a lot. Damage was approximately 10 to 12k on low defense monsters and 8k+ on flan. Imagine the damage dealt when special attacks are boosted (Dance, Jive, and Bardsong would make it benefit significantly).
Also, the Phase Armor set seems to have some "hidden" elemental properties: Phase Helm: Ice Phase Knuckles: Lightning
Others, I'll report back when I obtain the armors... but suffice it to say, a lot of the doll's equipment seem to have additional hidden properties, like Berserk resistance (but not Confuse resistance or Poison resistance).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 15, 2013, 02:27:23 PM
I forgot to mention that the dolls have some hidden protection against Paralysis as well (thru armor, I suspect).
Go! Calcabrena seems to be powered additionally by Luca's attack, with probably a 25% bonus. On its own, it doesn't really need the Limit Ring... although the damage goes upwards towards 12K.
Final Calcabrena definitely needs the Limit Ring as it has dealt 20k worth of damage. It's effectively the worth of having Cid's attack, with a 50% bonus...
Neither band seem to be affected by the moon phases.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 15, 2013, 03:14:04 PM
I personally loved the dolls and I had no idea the Phase equipment was specifically for them (I guess it makes sense since they're on robots) but its a real shame that they'd only be useful this late in the game. I really think that other enemies should have had the chance to drop Outfits and the like that the dolls could have equipped to stay in the game.
I was very disappointed to see that Golbez and Calcabrena didn't have a Band though, something like "Master Puppeteer" or something, ah well. Missed opportunities, it happens.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 16, 2013, 03:27:39 PM
Go! Calcabrena and Final Calcabrena are affected by the Special Attack moon phases...
Final Calcabrena is ultimately 2 times the attack of Go! Calcabrena (the dolls attack twice essentially), but the math doesn't play exactly like that. For quadruple the MP (10MP for Go! Calcabrena for 3 characters, 30MP for Final Calcabrena for 4 characters), you deal only 66% more damage overall.
Limit Ring not worthwhile with Go! Calcabrena when the moon negatively affects the dolls.
There's a small damage bonus if the target is solo (with Go! Calcabrena)... but only seems to be 1k extra damage worth.
It's kinda amazing how the Phase Helm is essentially a magic evasion multiplier in one (+20 INT, SPR)...
The dolls are like the fastest and one of the more stronger fighters when you get their equipment (I have yet to obtain the Shield or Armor).... especially given that they don't seem to be like that early on....
:edit: Calca and Brina Band (the classic Calcabrina) has the "Cura" version that is more like the Heal Dance... where the HP healed depends on the maxHP of the target (1/4 to 1/3 HP healed), less percentage of the healing happens as the maxHP grows, but more HP is gained...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 17, 2013, 02:41:34 PM
When your attack power reaches 190 or so, you are suddenly able to make a dent vs Flan (outside of the Flan Princess). This makes me wonder how base damage is calculated...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 22, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
My guess is that Attack Power is secretly boosted through levels... like a hidden attack power bonus of....
Attack Power Bonus = Attack Power + (Attack Power*(level/3)/100)
I've collected all the Phase equipment, so here's a breakdown.
Phase Cutter - +20 STR Phase Shield - Holy resistance (didn't check for Darkness resistance, will try soon), craploads of evasion+magic evasion Phase Helm - +20 SPR, INT, Ice resistance Phase Body - +20 STA, Fire resistance Phase Knuckles - +20 AGI, Lightning resistance
The Phase Body is overrated, since the other armors can provide more useful bonuses... but it does increase evasion which I guess is nice.
:edit:
Also, I found out you can cast Arise on a character, despite them not being dead. Apparently it heals the target to the max anyways.
:edit: Phase Shield has no Darkness resistance (not that it matters).
Also, Machine Break breaks down to the combination of Cid and Cecil's normal attack, with a 50% damage bonus... and a 50% damage bonus to that if the target is a Machine. The only issue is that you need the Limit Ring to expose this (I've seen it do 20K with the Ultima Weapon+Thor's Hammer) and that to really benefit, the target should be a machine... but for 7MP, this is insane really (Rapid Ring v2 should help with the band and his speed). Unfortunately, this is affected by row (for both characters I think).
:edit: Calca and Brina are ultimate what Palom and Porom would be like if they were fighters... especially given the XP requirements for the dolls...
I have no idea why Harley gains the slowest levels... but surely she could cast some spells with whatever pathetic MP she has....
Cid's Risk Strike does force a Critical Hit (50% damage increase) but consider the following: When the moon phase is beneficial, the damage dealt is almost 2 times his normal attack... 100 * 1.5 (critical hit bonus) * 1.25 (moon) = 187.5 Risk Strike is useful if you want to avoid HP or physical based counters.... because sometimes not killing the monster outright will get you killed (think Coeurls) or you simply want to avoid damage received by a counter... Critical Hits happens only <5% of the time (maybe more), but this increases your chances to about 50%... so it's not as risky as it sounds.
Just simply DO NOT use it against monsters with the boss bit. It will fail all the time.
I will be looking into Palom's Boast vs monsters....
:edit: Also...
Jump and Focus actually doubles the attack power like before. I haven't looked into Human Kite though... critical hits don't increase attack power though.
:edit: I'm starting to think the RNG can be rigged like in the Wii port, but it requires either some thought to being quick and using multitarget spells or bands like Quake and occasionally some insanely damaging single target bands...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 23, 2013, 12:48:20 AM
I have come to the lame conclusion of GP Rain's formula: Damage = LEVEL * LEVEL * .25
Somebody needs to revamp Harley's skills... badly.
I gave Zangetsu not so hot credit... he does have a better armor pool and MP pool to work with, unlike Kain. The only issue that he has no distinct spell of his own... Izayoi has Healing Salve (Curaga-like)... Gekkou has Feedback Wave (Revenge) Tsuiknowa has Restore Weed (Basuna?) Edge has no distinct spell, but he has all the fundamental Ninjutsu.
Gekkou may arguably be the fastest version of Cid (and Luca, but she gets all the really good armor). His spells probably aren't worth writing home about... but the bands he has are really nice and the only stuff you'd really want to throw are Shurikens....
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 23, 2013, 04:22:33 PM
OK, some info about Bluff - feel free to argue or whatever about the points I'm about to make:
Bluff's description is straight forward, at least with regards to Palom, however, the other aspect of it affecting the enemy is critical importance.
So, this is how it works...
For Palom's INT boosting to work, a monster must actually be affected by Bluff ("The monster cringes" message must be displayed). You can see the monster affected by a different/darker shading of the monsters when afflicted. This doesn't happen vs bosses and in fact, does not work vs any monster with the boss bit. Bluff is useless vs bosses and those monsters that have the boss bit.
When successful, Palom's spell multiplier seems to increase by 1... probably more as more monsters are affected. This can be repeated as many times AFAIK as there is a magic stat on the monster and this can effectively boost the spell multiplier past 25 (which is the normal cap on such magic multipliers).
The other side of the coin is that the monster's magic stat seems to decrease by 1. It will take a minimum of 4 Bluffs to reduce the spell multiplier of the monster. You can effectively "mind drain" a monster to death if you have the patience to do so.
This was tested against Dark Sages (2 Dark Sages+Armored Fiend). Their spells started to "lose power" as Palom continued to Bluff them to stupidity. I made Palom used Bio (with a spell multiplier of 22, 84 INT) and that only damaged the 2 Sages by the normal damage (2600 or so) and by the time I "mind drained" them to death... Palom would do 5k+ damage to both and their spells started to miss outright.
This command is helped by the "mage" tower in Palom's tale, where draining the low magic stats of the monsters really does help Palom a lot when you need him to deal damage in addition to reducing the power of the magic there.
Palom also has the Limit Ring, which may or may not be a factor in this discussion.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 01:06:25 AM
I will look into the bands Temptation (Rydia, Rosa, Izayoi, Harley) and Weapon In Progress (Harley, Edward, Cid, Luca) sometime soon.
Apparently every character must have a min of 5 bands...
If I forgot to mention earlier.. Ultima Spark (Golbez+Cecil) does the same damage to all enemies unless there is one, where it then deals 50% damage than normal.
Break Breaker doesn't seem to exceed 9999 damage (although I haven't actually tweaked Palom and Porom's stats enough to make it so), but it allows Cecil to do 25% more damage or so to all targets.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 01:35:35 PM
Temptation is not that impressive. It's kinda like Flare+Confuse, but weaker. I think the spell power is Flare or slightly less than that. The band attempts to apply Confuse at the end.
Most of the attack is cosmetic as far as I can tell and is affected by the Black Magic moon phase. No part of this attack seems physical at all outside of applying Confuse status thru the arrow portions. This attack heavily relies on Rydia's INT.
Feast of the Land seems to heal according to this: Base Healing = Harley's LEVEL * 20 Range is 25% of the base healing
There's supposed to be a second "weapon" created by Weapon in Progress, but I've only been able to get the healing... which is determined by the following formula: Healing = (Edward's Current HP + Harley's Current HP + 400) * .5 All characters are healed the same value that is produced (so, not affected by splitting targets). There's no variation of the healing number.
So, it's like a "team" version of White Wind (similar to Phantom Lightflies, but not with the same MP and HP algo).
Anyways... that should cover it.
Also, I love how FFWiki is completely wrong about the formula for Gil Toss for Harley. If the formula was even remotely true, it should deal almost 3k damage at level 99... which doesn't happen. I also do not remember Harley doing 1.2k damage with it at level 40 (in Edward's Tale).
:edit: With regards to combinations for Temptation, it goes great to add Leonora for Wild Whip. You then allow for some additional combos with Leonora like Frost Wave with Izayoi... and well, Rosa+Rydia has their Holy Flare Band. There's not much else of note really.
Weapon In Progress limits your combos to two other characters... Cecil (Machine Break with Cid and Sword Dance with Edward) and Rydia (Thunder Wave with Luca and Mirage Song with Edward).
My Gil Toss algo is wrong... but trying to figure out the following is not that easy: Level 40 - 600+ damage Level 99 - 2500+ damage
We do know that the algo is based on level... but it's not that simple.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 03:31:41 PM
Level 40 Harley has an Attack Multiplier of 6, with an INT of 44.
(40 * 6 * 1.5) + (40 * .5 * 12)
360 + 240 = 600
Level 99 Harley can gain an Attack Multiplier of 14, with an INT of 60 (Assassin Dagger, Adamant Shield, Cat's Hood/White Tiger Mask, Brave Suit/Red Jacket, Crystal Ring)
(99 * 14 * 1.5) + (99 * .5 * 16)
2079 + 792 = 2871
There's a range of sorts, I think it's like up to 100 to 150, but I'm not entirely sure.
:edit: Only the Cursed Ring would find a way to screw up the numbers. I don't even know where to begin. I'm very sure that her attack multiplier (and AGI to an extent) has a greater effect in boosting Gil Toss than her INT, which only grows it oh so slightly.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 24, 2013, 05:44:21 PM
I never expected Harley's int to actually have a purpose! And that information about the new Bluff being Completely different from the old Bluff is very neat. I didn't think they'd go that far in depth with it. I still don't understand why there's so much that you can't use on bosses though. It would have made a lot of skills (and characters) a lot neater in my opinion.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 06:26:48 PM
I need to thoroughly test Bluff on dumb monsters like the Goblin Prince to see if it makes a difference. Bluff would be useless in this game if Bluff was the same as before... so having it not pro-boss isn't that much of a loss.
Most of the anti-boss skills would be overpowered IMO... ever tried using the Debilitator on bosses? That's Piercing Sight if it were enabled. I'm sure there's a few other commands that would have a legit reason to be usable on bosses... but most of the time, there's not.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 24, 2013, 07:15:50 PM
Well yes Debilitator is one of my favorite tools in FFVI for that very reason. Hehe. The issue with Piercing Sight is that... Harley's not a swell character to begin with, if Piercing Sight could hit bosses it would give her an additional purpose in boss fights and unlike FFVI (I think anyhow) you can only add one weakness to one enemy. (Why it can cause Dark weakness when there is no character with access to Dark attacks is beyond me though)
You mentioned that Risky Strike is a non-boss skill as well, if I recall? I think that's definitely a legitimate one.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 10:58:19 PM
I just wanted to add that Gil Toss is also affected by STR as well. Even having a Headband will increase the damage output a little bit.
I'm not sure if critical strikes have additional properties other than increasing damage by 50%... if it does, that would be the only reason why.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 25, 2013, 02:08:39 PM
I watched some youtube vids about all the bands and found something of interest.
King's Quad is definitely a combination of all 4 characters (Yang, Cecil, Edge, Edward) plus 50% damage. The healing however is specifically 1/4 of Edward's Current HP (with slight randomness and heals all targets equally). It helps to heal Edward before executing the band.
I tried Go! Calcabrena! Band on the Blue Dragon... it's only took 1/2 the damage despite having two elementals... this leads me to believe the elementals don't stack, and that Wheel of Elements is kinda weak as a Band.
Watching the youtube vid... Advent of Phoenix (all ninjas) is simply a fire elemental band that executes the effect of Feedback Wave... this is great against a Behemoth that uses Maelstrom on you (and the Fiend Dragon I think), but nothing else.
Bluff does an additional feature that I hadn't really paid much attention to. It lowers the Magic Defense of the monsters by 1/4, and is capped to only work twice so at best you can lower the monster's magic defense by 1/2. This is a great skill vs high magic defense monsters that you can actually apply this too... (which should actually make killing Mad Ogres much easier actually). This was tested vs the Great Malboro (254 magic defense) with the -aga spells. On the 2nd Bluff, you are able to deal significant damage vs its crippled magic defense. The later boasts only seem to increase the damage slightly.
You only need one monster to increase Palom's spell multiplier thru Bluff. Having more monsters affected does not increase the spell multiplier quicker. However, the number of monsters affected seem to be capped to 3(?) and I need to try against bigger groups... as the monsters in the back are not affected (tried vs 2 Goblin Princes and 2 Sahagin Princes). Monsters do not need a Magic stat to have Palom gain the spell multiplier... they simply need to "cringe".
Also, I thought the armors for the dolls would give them resistance (mainly, the body armor), but it's actually the Phase Equipment that provides this benefit.. here's a quick listing. Phase Shield - Silence, Confuse Phase Helm - Death (gee, you don't say?) Phase Body - Stone, Poison (like the Deathmask, hard like a rock) Phase Knuckles - Paralysis, Sleep, Berserk (think Crystal Ring, but like 4 times better) Angel's Clothes - Death (it's probably like the regular doll clothes resistances, plus Death, which is kinda disappointing)
Now, I will start the fight vs the Giant of Babil or whatever that is... I've collected 8 Pink Armors, 7 Artemis Bows, 7 Artemis Arrows, 20 or so combined total of Crystal and Protect Rings... so that should make this easy enough... I hope.
:edit: Phase Shield and Angel's Clothes also blocks Curse Lunar Mail doesn't block Curse
I'm kinda annoyed there are no monsters in the final section of the game that inflicts Blind status...
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 26, 2013, 02:49:49 PM
Alright, I got around to beating the crap outta Lost Babil (and watched a few Youtube vids along the way). Here's a synopsis:
Constructing the team: Party 1: Palom's Angels (Palom, Ursula, Porom, Luca, Leonora) [2-3 formation] Goal: Pound the living crap out of the torso and/or hand with Petal Whirlwind
This portion of the monster likes fire (Thermal Rays) and ice (Freezing Winds) with a little gradual petrify.
Protect Rings and stuff from the Dragon armor series helps here. Ribbons or at least some Aegis Shields would work just as well. Other useful armor include the Cat Ear Hood and Red Cap/Jacket.
Since both monster spells have a very LOW spell power, surviving gradual petrification is easier (it's like Barbariccia, except just dumb). Not difficult.
Using Petal Whirlwind was great... in fact since Ursula was equipped with the Dragon Claw AND Godhand (both Holy elemental)... the attack did 50% more damage to the torso.. the hand didn't get the bonus damage. Apparently, the torso is vs Holy... so it makes a lot of sense to give Ursula elemental claws with Petal Whirlwind to deal exceptional damage (probably a great idea for the final bonus actually).
Blink is annoying, but easy to remove since the back row is a bunch of mages...
Party 2: Team Ninja (Zangetsu, Izayoi, Gekkou, Edge, Tsukinowa) [3-2 formation] Goal: Pounding the living crap out of the head...
The character in the middle needs to be the damage absorber, as it seems to be targeted the most with Holy, Flare, and whatnot (occasional Firaga). Gekkou is great for this.
The chest seems to like to use Curaja, only rarely... and the hand is easy to quiet down. The problem is that you suffer from having to do long range targeting to the head...
The monster summoning is kinda meh... as Edge with the Rising Sun is more than capable of killing it from the back row. It takes a while before the monster summons the monster for bestiary purposes.
Healing is primarily through Izayoi, and Edge as the primary backup (Tsukinowa is the worst of the healers).
It helps to put the hand to "sleep" as it tries to annoy with with Firaga and some hits...
The best band to use was Wheel of Elements.. which I didn't expect it to be effective, but it really is. 15MP per character is worth it...
It may be difficult to get the armor for all the ninjas - you need to obtain some Pink Armors (at least 2) for Ursula since the armors she uses (Red Jacket and Brave Suit) are ninja compatible. Fire Scarf and Ninja Garb solve only two characters... so the second Pink Armor would go to Izayoi.
Bile and Bad Breath is part of the lame repitoire of the Malboro... but easily fixable with Rune Armlets and other stuff that blocks ANY of its statuses (Blind, Silence, Toad, Mini, Pig, Confuse).
Party 2 should primarily be designed to target from long distance... whether by bands, magic, or attacks (special or not).
Party 3: Team Baron with Rydia, minus Cid (Ceodore, Rosa, Cecil, Rydia, Kain) Goal: Trinity Crusade to vs the CPU, Thunder Wave the rest
The difficulty here is trying to fit armor and equipment that is shared between Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore (and to Luca to a smaller extent). The Ultima Weapon, Ragnarok, and Holy Lance can be juggled a bit (Excalibur is the last resort with the Wyvern Lances as alternatives). Lunar equipment are only shared between Cecil+Ceodore... and Kain's best set would include portion of the Crystal armor set (with from Dragon armor that you can keep around).
I don't think there are any status effects to worry about... you simply have to be able to make sure you heal the character hit by the lame beam attack that deals 1/2 Max HP damage plus Sap... which should be easily solvable with Ceodore as the extra healer in the group.
It helps to lead off with Effect Form and then Thunder Wave... Ceodore and Rosa can cast Haste on Ceodore and Rydia on the next turn easily. Trinity Crusade is the goal... unlike the other parts of the Giant of Babil... this part is wicked easy.
:edit: Characters not chosen/considered: Golbez - shares too much with Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore... could be difficult to set up, but the Enhancement Sword and his Ebony Robe should be enough to worry about. Cid - too slow... Luca and Gekkou are better for what you need them for Yang - kinda slow... you'd have to have a King's Band setup to make him reasonably useful (his Slow band with Ursula is semi useful as you need to hit multiple targets with them), he shares too much stuff with Ursula Calca and Brena - it's worth considering ONLY if you get their best equipment.... they are most useful in part 1 of the battle and you could get away with using Luca and these two for Go! Calcabrena! Edward - despite having a nifty weapon in Loki's Lute, it's useless for this battle (it's the weakest standalone weapon compared to the Artemis Bow and Arrow at this point)... he'd be great for healing, but not much else Harley - useless w/o Edward, and even then you would be limited to her pathetic attack/skills and limited healing bands (you don't design your teams for Weapon in Progress or the special whip attacks)... at best the Feast of the Land band would be useful for the 1st part of the battle (and you could skip on her power by making her waste a turn vs Blink).
I had some time today to consider one potential team... this only sound good on paper: Cecil, Golbez, Zangetsu, Tsuiknowa (and Ceodore) You have two bands that can haste the party and slow down the enemy party. Adding Ceodore would allow for the Advanced Blade band and you can easily keep Zangetsu (Human Kite) and Tsuiknowa (boomerang) in the back. You could also put Golbez in the back since he can use magic, but he's better up front for regular fights...
I also like this party that I was testing with... Luca, Calca, Brena, Palom, Leonora This allows me to use the nice low cost Go! Calcabrena! band and use Ice Crush... good times. Helps to have Luca with the Limit Ring for this.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 26, 2013, 05:51:18 PM
Petal Whirlwind is Holy elemental... so if the target is weak against it, you will deal 50% more damage. Monsters resisting it will take 50% less damage. Descriptions suck.
Wheel of Elements must have some weak spell power base or something... despite apply 4 elementals (Fire, Ice, Lightning, and Wind), the Blue Dragon only needs to resist one to deal less damage. However, I don't know how to explain how it deals damage to the monsters with 254 magic defense. It might have the same collective power as the -aga spells (since it has been noted that the Ninjutsu spells involved are generally -ara level based).
With that said, Lost Babil's second battle has all their parts and summoned monster having really really bad magic defense (the highest is 10 from the summoned monsters) which is why it was so successful. Go figure.
:edit: I have determined that Particle Bomb is essentially a -aga level spell... that has no elemental (Spell Power = 256). Tested vs Flan and High Magic Defense monsters such as the Selene Guardian.
I believe all the 2nd level Ninjutsu based spells have a spell power of 200. The numbers seem to work out like that... they can't hurt any high magic defense monster...
Wheel of Elements seems to have a spell power of 256. I figured this out when using it vs the high magic defense monster Dinozombie... which happens to have a weakness vs Fire.
I'm starting to think Blitz doesn't have an instant death property... but perhaps the Bug kills itself when hit by Lightning as part of its battle script.
I found something worth mentioning... if a band attack like Wheel of Elements has multiple elements as part of the attack... the damage dealt to monsters will be based on how the monster reacts to the element. If the monster resists/absorbs one (or more) of the elements, they will take 50% less damage. If the monster is weak vs one (or more) of the elements, they will take 2 times the normal damage... but this is cumulative.
For example, the Red Dragon absorbs Fire and is weak vs Ice.
If Wheel of Elements deals 10k damage vs most monsters that have no elemental weaknesses or resistances (assuming Limit Ring is in use)...
The weakness to ice will allow Wheel of Elements to do an additional 10k of damage. The resistance/absorption to fire will cause Wheel of Elements to lose 5k of damage.
10k + 10k - 5k = 15k
In sum, you will be always doing only 50% more damage than normal under these circumstances.
Also, I had forgotten to mention that when monsters are weak vs the elemental weapon you possess, you actually double the attack power of the character. This is most noticeable against monsters like the Dust Mousse (Flan) that is weak vs Holy.
I think Bluff's magic defense lowering attribute is actually cumulative... it reduces the monster's Magic Defense by 1/16 (of its Magic Defense) and it will take practically 16 turns of Bluff to negate the existence of the monster's magic defense.... it could actually reduce it by 16 though (it would make some sense).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 27, 2013, 12:54:38 AM
I'm soooo ready to give up on trying to figure out Gil Toss..
These are the only notes I have...
INT/2 increase damage by level/4... STR increase damage by level/4...? AGI increase damage by level/3 ??
That's all I have. Go figure. It's hard to do comparisons because equipment bonuses aren't linear.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 27, 2013, 01:06:44 PM
Petal Whirlwind has both Holy AND Darkness elemental in it. That would explain the 50% damage it does to most targets when they have Holy weakness.
The majority of monsters that has Holy weakness has "Dark" resistance (leech or straight resistance). This is why damage dealt is only a 50% bonus. The only monster that seems to not have Darkness resistance is Lucifer (in the "Wind" part of the Lunar Subterrane). Then again, I cannot quite explain Storm Anima...
Final Fantasy band seems to apply Protect... isn't Protect the Green glow?
:edit: Petal Whirlwind is simply Holy elemental, but I do need to explain something relevant.
When using Holy Trinity (or Petal Whirlwind) on a monster that is normally weak vs Holy, it does 33% more damage that usual. If the monster is "Extra Weak" vs Holy (like Lucifer and Shadow [Subterraine B7]), then you do twice as much damage (or 100% more damage) than usual.
:edit: In trying to understand Go! Calcabrena! and it's elemental properties... using it on the Vampire Bats and Vampireess (weak vs Fire, absorb Lightning) seems to produce a bonus of 66% damage... with very weak monsters like the skeletons (Shadow) taking twice as much damage. I would like to point out that it's 66% more damage because the dolls are both part of the magic damage equation, so it's really 33% damage * 2 (dolls).
Also, Golbez's Ebony Blade was tested against some of the undead... it deals half damage to Darkness resistant... and like 1/8 to 1/10 normal damage for the monsters that are usually "Immune" to them, like the Wight (zombie) and the Living Mail (both found on B7 Lunar Subterrane).
:edit: Also, I believe now that Monster Magic is affected by the Black Magic moon phases....
Will try to thoroughly look into Wheel of Elements and monster weakness/absorption damage.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 28, 2013, 01:06:22 AM
Ok... some useful info before I goto bed.
If the Band Attack is physical-like in nature (meaning, there will be some nasty direct blow to the enemy), the 50% damage bonus (100% if extra weak) will apply. Ninjutsu bands seem to fall into this category (including Wheel of Elements, the latter part looks like Tsuiknowa is actually hitting the enemy with wind)... there is actually no penalty for having a monster resistant to the elemental (in the same way most physical attacks are).
If the Band Attack is strictly magic in nature, it will behave/react more like a spell. Using bands like Inferno, Flare Tornado, Palom in the Sky, Ice Crush, Tri-Elemental Disaster, Thunderstorm (and many others) will either heal, or simply cancel the benefits out. For instance, using Tri-Elemental Disaster on the Vampire Bats seem to do "normal" damage on the bats, whereas the Vampiress that are not resistant to Lightning take 2 times the damage. You can find lots of fail on a Blue Dragon....
Also, for Advent of Phoenix... if the target is actually weak vs Fire... the damage dealt is 60% more damage than normal... 66% more damage than normal for extra weak monsters.
:edit: I had to do this test before I sleep...
Magic still has the same weakness multipliers as before... 2 times the spell power (damage) for normally weak monsters... and 4 times the spell power (damage) for extra weak monsters.
Physical attacks with elementals has changed a few. 2 times the attack power for normally weak monsters and only 2.25 times the attack power for extra weak monsters.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 28, 2013, 12:59:46 PM
Here's some notes on a few bands...
Vibra Prime (Team Baron - Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Rosa, Cid) - there's no elemental aspect to it (despite "Holy" appearing)... overly physical based... hits all monsters equally (no solo monster bonus)
Final Fantasy - it's more affected by high magic defense (less on physical), non-elemental
Advent of Phoenix - Even if a target is resistant or can absorb the elemental (Fire), the monster still takes the damage based on HP... for some reason it deals an additional 10% more damage to the Blue Dragon... go figure.
Makeshift Cannon - loses 30% damage vs high magic defense targets, loses 50% vs high defense targets
Infinity - Holy elemental, loses 50% damage on high magic defense targets... only 5 character band to be absorbed by the Blue Dragon...
Frost Wave - Ice elemental (duh), 50% bonus damage to a solo target, Blizzaga level magic I think (no split damage loss)
Rapid Fire - affected by both Black Magic moon and Attack moon (Attack is more beneficial with two attackers)... it is affected more by physical resistance... deals 25% less damage vs high magic defense, 60% less damage vs high defense... needs Limit Ring to expose damage potential
Constructing a team of Tsuiknowa, Izayoi, Ceodore, Palom, Leonora is alright, but are really limited to those two bands.
So, AFAIK, the only two Ninjutsu based bands to heal the Blue Dragon are Frost Wave and Flare Tornado.. but the "no physical blows" on the monster rule generally holds true. Frozen Moon Dance, Blazing Moon Ring, Saint Dive... and many others (including Rocket Launcher) are designed to by physical based (using the Attack command or other means). Although Rocket Launcher is not a physical blow, it actually combines the attacks of both Ceodore and Cid...
:edit: I believe that Throw and Shuriken are powered by STR (in addition to level). I noticed that Gekkou seemed to do more damage than Edge throwing the Fuma Shuriken... and the only real difference between Edge and Gekkou is that Gekkou has far more STR than Edge.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 28, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
A small update between Shuriken and Throw...
Throw uses the same formula as the original game. Shuriken is simply this:
Damage = level * attack power of thrown weapon (in this case, only shurikens) * 1.25 Note: There is randomness added between 1 and 100 after the math.
So, in some, Gekkou is a stronger thrower of shurikens than Edge. Damage is still capped at 9999 (no need for the Limit Ring though).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 29, 2013, 10:17:55 AM
Hmm, a level based attack? Wish I could find where some of these formulas are or even how to identify what formulas look like in Hex, bah.
Interesting information there about Advent of the Phoenix. I really have to wonder why it deals 10% more damage when it's Fire Elemental to a Fire Resistant monster. Does it react this way to other Fire resistant foes?
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 29, 2013, 11:24:48 AM
If you can substitute level in the damage formulas, you are on your way.
Well, I've figured Advent of Phoenix out..
There are two components: Base Damage = All of the lost HP of characters using the band Elemental Damage = 128 (?) * All of the combined INT or spell multipliers of each individual character Total Damage = Base Damage + Elemental Damage
Elemental Damage is affected by the same basic rules... 50% less damage on resistance, 50% more damage on weakness, 100% more damage on being extra weak.
So when you are using the attack, don't be surprised that the Dinozombie or high magic defense monsters take only the base damage portion of the spell.
:edit: Revised Algo... Base Damage = All of the lost HP of the characters using the band Elemental Damage = AVG LEVEL of all the characters in the band * All of the combined INT/4 or spell multipliers of each individual character Total Damage = Base Damage + Elemental Damage
This explains a lot in some of the youtube vids where the damage really bad at lower levels.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 29, 2013, 04:27:10 PM
Explosive Kick is very powerful for something that doesn't seem very attractive on paper.
Two components: Regular Kick Damage = Attack Power/2 * Attack Multiplier (same as original) Kick Multiplier = Gekkou's Spell Multiplier on INT Damage = Regular Kick Damage * Kick Multiplier
It is fire elemental, but the damage bonus from that is relatively minimal. Modified Kick Damage = Regular Kick Damage * Elemental Modifier (.5 for absorb/resistance, 1.5 for weakness, 2 for extra weak)
Monsters with high magic defense have no influence on damage. High defense does affect the results.
Also, I've constructed a team of Ceodore, Ursula, Tsuiknowa, Palom, Porom...
It takes advantage of the 3-character band of Rapid Fire, though losing Makeshift Cannon and Delta Evolution when you drop out Luca... but you also gain the awesome band of Healing Wind (Curaja * 2 + unreflectable). It's a very usable alternative to the team for Makeshift Cannon.
:edit: OK, I think I was wrong a bit... lemme restate the algo: Regular Kick Damage = (Attack Power/2 * Kick Multiplier) * Attack Multiplier * .5 (is the same as original - need to fix my algo FAQ) Kick Multiplier = Gekkou's Spell Multiplier on INT Modified Kick Damage = Regular Kick Damage * Elemental Modifier Elemental Modifier = 1.20 on weakness, 1.25 on extra weak, 1.20 on absorb/resistance... (not sure)
The great thing is that Explosive Kick works against Flan... the bad news is that the damage dealt is like 4 times less than normal (well, this is with the strongest attack power stat possible, so it is probably worse at lower levels).
Remember that the Attack Power loss is tested against the monster's defense stat.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 29, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
Arg... I think I got the #s now.
Kick Power = (Attack Power/2 * Elemental Modifier) + 200 (Spell Power of Blast) Elemental Modifier = .5 for absorb/resistance, 1.5 for weakness, 2 for extra weak Explosive Kick Multiplier = (Yang's) Attack Multiplier + (Gekkou's) Spell Multiplier [INT]
There we go. I'm pretty sure the numbers work out correctly.
The correct Kick formula should be....
If Target = Flan, Damage = 0, Skip All Other Steps Kick Base Damage = (Attack Power/2) - Target's Defense If Kick Base Damage < 0, Damage = 1 (or 0/Miss!, depending on which version of game), Skip all other steps Kick Damage = Kick Base Damage * Attack Multiplier * .5
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 31, 2013, 12:46:36 PM
To be tested sometime today: spell power of Chakra see the effect of Five Star Crimson Palm band vs Haste see what the hell does Restore Weed cures blind resistance testing (apparently the Wild Bat tries to blind you) - will need to test with Lunar Mail, Pink Armor (probably), and some piece of the Phase equipment should have it requests taken
Some thoughts: Inferno band probably has the same power as the original attack (spell power = 360) Ninjutsu+Black Magic makes it more magic-ish (so, it's a new addendum rule for bands)
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 31, 2013, 04:27:54 PM
Ok, here's an update:
Blind testing is not complete (or done), just so you know....
So, out of battle, it's only good for Poison removal. Same effect happens during Healing Wind (I didn't do a thorough test, but let's be honest what the band is based of)...
Related status healing involving Feast of the Land band: Every status outside of Float, Death, and Break are healed (not sure about Blind).
Chakra only heals Poison (pretty much a personal Yang healer in some ways).. Chakra's healing algo is defined by the following: Spell Power: 54 (based on Spirit)
I'm not sure if that's exact formula (it's between 16.6% or 15% for me), but that's pretty much how the healing is defined in this skill.
Five Star Crimson Palm negates Haste when applied... (obviously applying Slow if Haste is not applied previous). However, this attack also causes instant death to targets not resistant to it.
Fist Dance (Yang+Edward) and Sword Dance (Cecil+Edward) are mostly physical related, but there's a semi-magic component that isn't elemental based, but seems to be powered by like a magic-ish component like Flare, but not as powerful (at least on the part of Edward's Harp magic). It does actually deal some damage to Flan... which is good for once. High magic defense targets are not affected (well, Fist Dance seems to be affected a bit more for some reason).
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on February 01, 2013, 02:29:02 AM
Blind testing is going poorly since I have to actually spend money to get afflicted by the status... which boggles my mind.
I will be testing what statuses Phantom Nightflies removes later...
:edit: Restore Weed heals Blind as well...
Phantom Lightflies heals the following: Poison, Paralysis, Berserk
More thorough Blind testing later.
Also, the summoned Dark Grenade is the one that does Flash... but it doesn't seem to work out. I wish the regular Dark Grenades would do it.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: Deathlike2 on February 04, 2013, 09:41:09 AM
I forgot to mention this info earlier, but it's worth mentioning...
The first part of Lost Babil is probably the hardest of them all (in fact, the difficulty is harder early, not so difficult late). If the hand is allowed to "grab" a character, it is "special" in that it attempts to "squeeze" the life out of a character while making them useless (seen this before from the Tentacles in FF6), but more importantly it "holds" a band in limbo indefinitely until the hand dies or the character is dead. This is problematic if you are running ANY sort of band and can be called game breaking if you have a 5 character band ready to be run.
Title: Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
Post by: DrROBschiz on February 04, 2014, 11:13:38 AM
Interesting Old Topic
I only necrobump this to ask if there is anyone who is planning on doing a hack for this version of the game
I know there are a few PSP scenes out there that have modified games like Monster Hunter, FFT, and Valkyria Chronicles.
Are the tools available? What would it take to delve into this version of the game?