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Deathlike2

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Metallic Oddities
« on: March 08, 2008, 12:41:42 AM »
Right now, I'm at the metallic cave and I almost forgot to do some testing before I killed the Dark Elf. Here's some fun facts.

1) Yes, you can use your metallic weapon... but for one measily pathetic attack.
Then, you immediately become disabled and useless for the rest of the battle.
Whoever wrote that you can use metallic weapons in battle was only half correct.... those douchebags.

2) You cannot use items or item-spells after you swap for a metallic weapon/shield. The item will be used up instead (so be weary of this).

3) Cecil will still auto-cover while under "metallic paralysis". This is the stupidest and strangest thing I've seen happen, but it is what it is.

4) Cecil is still able to cast magic for that turn after swapping for a metallic weapon/shield in battle.

5) It is impossible to get all 4 characters into metallic paralysis during a battle if they were not paralyized at the start of battle.
Yang has no metallic claws, so he's the lone savior.

6) Speed up the game by equipping your metallic equipment prior to talking to the Dark Elf.
This may be important for those of you doing speed runs of the game.

Edit: I haven't tested this on FF4A, but most of these points should apply.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 12:51:09 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2008, 04:43:56 AM »
I may be wrong on this, no scratch that, there's a 90% chance I'm wrong on this, but I think having a piece of metallic equipment on every character before the battle starts gets you an instant game over regardless if you have the TwinHarp or not. For some reason I remember this happening to me in the past, back when I was first playing the game. There's a good chance, however, that I just didn't have the TwinHarp and forgot.

I'm not sure what triggers the metallic paralysis in that cave but I always thought it would be cool to have another dungeon with that effect. I should look at the map headers and see if there's anything about it in there. I'm betting it's triggered by that event at the start of the cave or it's there from the start and removed by the TwinHarp event.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2008, 04:49:23 AM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on March 09, 2008, 04:43:56 AM
I may be wrong on this, no scratch that, there's a 90% chance I'm wrong on this, but I think having a piece of metallic equipment on every character before the battle starts gets you an instant game over regardless if you have the TwinHarp or not. For some reason I remember this happening to me in the past, back when I was first playing the game. There's a good chance, however, that I just didn't have the TwinHarp and forgot.

The TwinHarp is a trigger for which Dark Elf you encounter. Note the script "YOU FOOLS!" in FF2US.

The insta-lose game is definately occuring for regular battles.. it just so happens that the Dark Elf's battle (when you have the TwinHarp) is scripted to make you lose anyways and continue the story.
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Phoenix

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2008, 06:23:39 AM »
I've thought the same thing about creating another metallic area, or changing it to something else (Silence would be cool for a non-magic area). I checked the event script when you enter the Magnus Cave, and there's nothing in there that would create that effect.

However, if you return to the Cave later the magnetized effect is gone. So I checked the Dark Elf battle event script, and it sets one event flag and clears one event flag at the end (there are 256 event flags, oo-FF). The one cleared is E1, which is the only event flag that is set at the beginning of the game. (Event Flags Initially Set are from 97440-9745F, with 1 bit per event flag.) I've been wondering what that one event was, but I think we've found the answer. I tested it, and that event flag determines whether the battles on maps in the Magnus Cave have the magnetic effect.

So, there's some code located somewhere (or perhaps in the location properties data) that says battles are magnetic if E1 is set, and not is E1 is cleared. It's the same thing as the world maps changes -- there's ASM code that says if a certain event flag is set, the map looks one way (like the destroyed Castle of Damcyan) and if it's cleared it looks another way (i.e. the non-destroyed Castle of Damcyan).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 06:21:21 PM by Phoenix »
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Deathlike2

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2008, 06:27:04 AM »
Quote from: Phoenix on March 09, 2008, 06:23:39 AM
I've thought the same thing about creating another metallic area, or changing it to something else (Silence would be cool for a non-magic area). I checked the event script when you enter the Magnus Cave, and there's nothing in there that would create that effect.

However, if you return to the Cave later the magnetized effect is gone. So I checked the Dark Elf battle event script, and it sets one event flag and clears one event flag at the end (there are 256 event flags, oo-FF). The one cleared is E1, which is the only event flag that is set at the beginning of the game. (Event Flags Initially Set are from 97440-9745F, with 1 bit per event flag.) I've been wondering what that one event was, but I think we've found the answer. I tested it, and that event flag determines whether the battles on maps in the Magnus Cave have the magnetic effect.

So, there's some code located somewhere (or perhaps in the location properties data) that says battles are magnetic if E1 is set, and not is E1 is cleared. It's the same thing as the world maps changes -- there's ASM code that says if a certain event flag is set, the map looks one way (like the destroyed Castle of Damcyan) and if it's cleared it looks another way (i.e. the non-destroyed Castle of Damcyan).

Now that sounds like an awesome find.. I'd actually like to revisit the Tower of Zot or the Tower of Babil... and maybe the Giant.

However, if I have to equip RubyRings again for another section of the game. I'll have your head!  :banonsmash:
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2008, 06:37:40 AM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on March 09, 2008, 06:27:04 AM
Now that sounds like an awesome find.. I'd actually like to revisit the Tower of Zot or the Tower of Babil... and maybe the Giant.

Yeah, that would be really cool. The Tower of Zot is supposed to be floating so you could have it crash somewhere near Troia, that would be a huge map change and you'd probably need new graphics to pull it off realistically, but still, it would be cool. Same thing with the giant, instead of having it explode just have it tip over (This is what FF4 DS does) and have it permanently lay on the ground near the tower. A lot of work but if you were dedicated I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done within the limits of the original game.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on March 09, 2008, 06:27:04 AM
However, if I have to equip RubyRings again for another section of the game. I'll have your head!  :banonsmash:

Not an issue in my hack, the majority of relics are non-metallic.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2008, 06:42:59 AM »
What's sad about the RubyRings is that the time you deequip them is the time the friggen boss uses a Piggy spell on you.  :lame:

The only cool equipment that isn't metallic is Zeus's Gloves.. but that's a friggen rare drop from the Ogres.  :bah:
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Phoenix

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2008, 07:02:23 AM »
I'm not sure what you mean by revisiting the Tower of Zot. Do you mean just accessing it again? If so, that's a really easy hack, you can just add a trigger on the World Map (or any location map) that is an event that loads the entrance map you want. I guess if you want the graphics on the world map like you said, then you would need to do an ASM hack. It shouldn't be too hard, though, since we know the location of where the routine that changes overworld maps, and that it uses event flags.
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Phoenix

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2008, 05:48:00 PM »
I felt sure I had found the bit that determines whether battles are magnetic, within the location property data. These are 13 bytes each, and the most significant bit of the last byte is only active in the Magnus Cave, the Agart well, and Adamant Grotto (and the very last dummy map). But I changed it, and nothing happened.
:bah:

So, the question is, what do these locations have in common? It's the only thing I can think of. The Agart well could be a mistake, since its map number comes right before the Magnus Cave. Adamant Grotto would be a neat place to have a magnetic battle, I think, and perhaps that's what they intended. Except, that bit doesn't appear to be for magnetic battles.

Here's the data, in case anyone is interested (for the Magnus Cave entrance through Adamant Grotto). It starts at AA5A1 (FF2us ROM with header):

Code: [Select]
8C 02 8C EA 02 10 25 95 86 00 47 B9 B8
8D 02 8D 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 09 BB B8
8E 02 8E 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 BC B8
8F 02 8F EA 02 10 25 95 86 00 0A BE B8
90 02 90 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 BE B8
91 02 91 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 C1 B8
92 02 92 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 C2 B8
93 02 93 EA 02 10 25 95 86 00 0B C2 8E
4A 07 94 72 07 40 2D AF 86 00 18 C3 80
95 02 95 66 02 00 00 95 86 00 80 C3 04
96 0E 96 01 0E 10 25 23 86 00 15 C3 03
97 06 97 00 06 10 09 23 86 00 3A C3 0C
98 0A 98 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 4B C3 1C
99 0A 99 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 01 C4 1C
9A 0A 9A 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 02 C5 00
9B 06 9B 2F 06 10 00 9B 00 00 80 C5 1C
9C 0A 9C 2F 0A 90 19 9B 86 00 03 C5 1C
9D 0A 9D 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 04 C5 0C
9E 0A 9E 2F 0A 50 19 9B 86 00 05 C9 0C
9F 0A 9F 2F 0A 70 19 9B 86 00 06 C9 34
A0 0E A0 6E 10 10 25 23 86 00 5B C9 B8
And the meaning of these bytes:

00: Map Index
01: Tileset Index
02: Map NPC Layout Index
03: Background Graphic
   bits 0-6: Background Graphic Index
   bit 7: ?
04: Map Palette Index
05: NPC Palette Index
06: Music Index
07: Map Layout Index (scrolling tiles?)
08: Background Movement
   bit 0: Scroll independent of character movement
   bits 1-3: ?
   bits 4-5: Direction
      00: Up
      01: Right
      10: Down
      11: Left
   bit 6-7: Speed
      00: None
      01: Slow
      10: Medium
      11: Fast
09: ? 80: part of ending / other auto-events?
0A: Map Name Index
0B: Treasure Contents Index
0C: ?
   bits 0-6: ?
   bit 7: Battles have Magnetic Effect?

Edit: I tested all of the location properties, and I'm sure the metallic property is not contained within them. That means it's tied directly to the map index, so there's something somewhere else specifying it. Too bad.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 05:55:58 PM by Phoenix »
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Deathlike2

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 06:00:31 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on March 09, 2008, 07:02:23 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by revisiting the Tower of Zot. Do you mean just accessing it again? If so, that's a really easy hack, you can just add a trigger on the World Map (or any location map) that is an event that loads the entrance map you want. I guess if you want the graphics on the world map like you said, then you would need to do an ASM hack. It shouldn't be too hard, though, since we know the location of where the routine that changes overworld maps, and that it uses event flags.

Yes, that's what I meant.
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Phoenix

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2009, 06:45:42 AM »
I finally figured out what the deal was with the location properties. It turns out the information provided by Yousei was one byte off -- the location properties start at A8E84, not A9E85. So the bytes I was changing to look at metallic battles weren't for the maps I was testing. I reformatted my data for the Cave Magnes maps like so:

Code: [Select]
## Location (Name) Offset 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C
-- ------------------------- ----- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
8C Cave Magnes (entrance) AA5A0 B8 8C 02 8C EA 02 10 25 95 86 00 47 B9
8D Cave Magnes (B2F - big pits) AA5AD B8 8D 02 8D 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 09 BB
8E Cave Magnes (B2F - pit) AA5BA B8 8E 02 8E 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 BC
8F Cave Magnes (B3F) AA5C7 B8 8F 02 8F EA 02 10 25 95 86 00 0A BE
90 Cave Magnes (B2F - treasure room) AA5D4 B8 90 02 90 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 BE
91 Cave Magnes (B2F - passage) AA5E1 B8 91 02 91 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 C1
92 Cave Magnes (save point) [1] AA5EE B8 92 02 92 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 C2
93 Cave Magnes (B4F) AA5FB B8 93 02 93 EA 02 10 25 95 86 00 0B C2
94 Cave Magnes (crystal room) AA608 8E 4A 07 94 72 07 40 2D AF 86 00 18 C3
95 Cave Magnes Background AA615 80 95 02 95 66 02 00 00 95 86 00 80 C3
96 Watery Pass (inside tent) AA622 04 96 0E 96 01 0E 10 25 23 86 00 15 C3
97 Baron (Serpent Road house) AA62F 03 97 06 97 00 06 10 09 23 86 00 3A C3
98 Tower of Zot (entrance) AA63C 0C 98 0A 98 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 4B C3
99 Tower of Zot (2F) AA649 1C 99 0A 99 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 01 C4
9A Tower of Zot (3F) AA656 1C 9A 0A 9A 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 02 C5
9B empty room (black) AA663 00 9B 06 9B 2F 06 10 00 9B 00 00 80 C5
9C Tower of Zot (4F) AA670 1C 9C 0A 9C 2F 0A 90 19 9B 86 00 03 C5
9D Tower of Zot (5F) AA67D 1C 9D 0A 9D 2F 0A 10 19 9B 86 00 04 C5
9E Tower of Zot (6F) AA68A 0C 9E 0A 9E 2F 0A 50 19 9B 86 00 05 C9
9F Tower of Zot (7F) AA697 0C 9F 0A 9F 2F 0A 70 19 9B 86 00 06 C9
A0 Grotto Adamant AA6A4 34 A0 0E A0 6E 10 10 25 23 86 00 5B C9
A1 Cave Magnes (save point) [2] AA6B1 B8 92 02 92 89 02 10 25 95 86 00 80 C9
And the data fits. The metallic battle property is contained within the highest bit of the first byte (i.e. values 80-FF) as you can see from the location properties. So, the meanings of the bytes are:

Code: [Select]
00: Battle Properties
bits 0-3: Battle Background
bits 4-6: ?
bit 7: Battles have Magnetic Effect if event flag E1 is set
01: Map Index
02: Tileset Index
03: NPC Placement Index
04: Border Tile Index
bits 0-6: Border Tile Index
bit 7: ?
05: Map Palette Index
06: NPC Palette Index
bits 0-3: NPC Palette Indices 1 & 2
0000: Palettes 01 & 02
0001: Palettes 03 & 04
etc.
bits 4-7: NPC Palette Indices 3 & 4
same as above
07: Music Index
08: Background Index
09: Background Movement
bit 0: Background is transparent when walking under (such as lakes)
bit 1: Vertical Background Relative Movement
bit 2: Horizontal Background Relative Movement
bit 3: ?
bits 4-5: Direction
00: Up
01: Right
10: Down
11: Left
bit 6-7: Speed (Absolute Movement / Relative Movement)
00: None / None
01: Slow / Moves slowly in character's direction
10: Medium / Moves in character's direction
11: Fast / Moves opposite to character's direction
0A: 80 = Load people/objects from Underground/Moon index
0B: Map Name Index
0C: Treasure Contents Index
Mystery solved.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Metallic Oddities
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2013, 09:12:16 AM »
Quote from: Phoenix on July 07, 2009, 06:45:42 AM
the location properties start at A8E84, not A9E85.

Sorry to necro this thread but I just felt the overwhelming need to fix this typo for the record as I just spent a couple of hours trying to track down what the heck was wrong with my reading of map properties and it boiled down to this:

The location properties start at A9E84, not A8E84.
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