Author Topic: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)  (Read 9063 times)

thepatirckinator

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless you all!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2016, 08:55:56 PM »
Sorry Pinkpuff had to abandon FF4kster since he doesn't have enough time to work on it. At least he's working on Final Fantasy IV Rougeflyer as a replacement.

Pinkpuff

  • Flan Princess
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Find a Megalixir in Unprecedented Crisis!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2016, 05:20:38 AM »
As I said on RHDN I really like the idea of this project.

I'd like to attempt this for FF6. I have most of the technicalities covered except efficient random generation of non-square rooms (with correct L1 & L2 tiles). Do you have a set of predefined room patterns that you give optionally some variations to have many different ones or does your random rooms are 100% generated by algorithms?

I'm just trying to find the best way to do this and currently there is a bit of head scratching.

My rooms are generated by algorithms, but there are some checks and balances in there to make sure the room will look proper when you put the wall and ceiling tiles in. It can currently create simple "room" and "hall" formations, but it's set up in such a way that it should be easy to add other kinds of formations. Currently, I don't have a way of dealing with L1 and L2 tiles, ladders, and the like, and I don't have any ideas in that regard. How does yours handle those?
Let's dance!

Madsiur

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 149
  • Gender: Male
  • FF6AE coder
    • View Profile
    • Madsiur's Lair
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2016, 01:02:21 PM »
Currently, I don't have a way of dealing with L1 and L2 tiles, ladders, and the like, and I don't have any ideas in that regard. How does yours handle those?

I have not coded this yet but I was thinking mapping into an array each room with L1 tiles ID. Another arrays would be the corresponding L2 tiles, this one would be generated from single L1 tile appearance or combination of L1 tiles appearance (like a ceiling corner facing down the map). This would require to map each tileset and identify a lot of combinations prior to the room generation. Same principle would go for tables with chairs, beds, etc. I think this method will be a lot of preparation work on each tileset but I don't really see another way of doing it.

abyssonym

  • Wing Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Abyssonym's Randomizer Emporium
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2016, 11:04:22 PM »
Sounds like you're planning a "markov" method similar to what I used for the world map generator, Madsiur. Assuming you have the layer 1 already generated, layer 2 should be a lot easier to work off of because it isn't as complex. You can make the program automate its own prep work by having it go through every map that uses the same tileset and catalogue which tiles can be adjacent to each other and still be valid. Ideally you would keep a running total of every instance of two adjacent tiles so you can generate layer 2 tiles that fit the probability distribution. I suppose it is possible to have a situation where a configuration of L1 tiles is legal but there is no possible L2 configuration that matches them, but I expect that this would be pretty rare so the failure strategy could be something like "just don't use L2 tiles".

For the world map, I had two basic validators, a "north-south" and an "west-east" validator, that were used to make sure each pair was legal. For a chosen tile called "center" these were applied once each ("north-center" and "west-center") since the tiles were generated starting from the northwest corner. However, because the map had high complexity, I needed to optimize the program to minimize backtracking and finish in a reasonable amount of time. So I also used the validators for a 1-step lookahead ("center-south" and "center-east"), and a 2-step lookahead based on those ("east-southeast" and "south-southeast"). Actually I had more complex lookaheads than that, but you get the general idea.

For choosing L2 tiles, I expect that you would still need the same N-S and W-E validators, but also maybe a L2North-L1South validator or something because L2 tiles are often use to create the tops of trees, etc. Since L2 isn't so complex, I don't think it needs optimization, lookaheads, or backtracking, but there probably will be a few impossible situations, which is where the "just don't use L2 tiles" strategy comes in.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 11:10:52 PM by abyssonym »

Bydoless

  • Wing Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2016, 07:32:57 PM »
I also am planning on making a FF6 room random generator for my roguelikeifier, but I am having an issue of creating an algorithm that generates the actual walkable area for each room.

thepatirckinator

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless you all!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2016, 10:16:43 AM »
Good luck with your Final Fantasy VI project!

Madsiur

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 149
  • Gender: Male
  • FF6AE coder
    • View Profile
    • Madsiur's Lair
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2016, 10:04:44 AM »
Sounds like you're planning a "markov" method similar to what I used for the world map generator, Madsiur.

Thanks for your input, abyss. This will be helpful. Will your world map generator be expanded to a regular map generator too accesible from the world map? That would give a fresh new experience, a bit like a quest minus the events, but you could still have event bits that act as simple quest markers without enabling too much complex stuff.

I also am planning on making a FF6 room random generator for my roguelikeifier, but I am having an issue of creating an algorithm that generates the actual walkable area for each room.

I guess the basic strategy is generating simple forms (square, rectagle) add a perimeter (non-walkable blank / black tiles) and add a wall of X tiles of height on the north border and finally putting an south and north door. Here is your basic room.

To be honest I'm only on the planning stage of this, I haven't yet coded anything and since I got a lot on my plate, It will take some time before I have anything playable. Your generator should be out before mine.  :bah:

thepatirckinator

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless you all!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2016, 07:17:32 AM »
So one of you guys is trying to make a Final Fantasy 6 randomizer.

abyssonym

  • Wing Raptor
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
    • Abyssonym's Randomizer Emporium
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2016, 08:07:58 PM »
Thanks for your input, abyss. This will be helpful. Will your world map generator be expanded to a regular map generator too accesible from the world map?
I was considering a project that would be an expanded Ancient Cave like in Beyond Chaos, but would have a randomized world map and would retain many of the events that are currently deleted from BCAC. But this would have involved a lot of work in parsing event scripts and re-cataloging every map's exits, NPCs, etc. So I don't know if I'll ever pick it back up. A regular map generator is doable but I wasn't planning on it.

I also am planning on making a FF6 room random generator for my roguelikeifier, but I am having an issue of creating an algorithm that generates the actual walkable area for each room.
Several years ago I was inspired by this article: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Cellular_Automata_Method_for_Generating_Random_Cave-Like_Levels . This is the method that I use (with a different ruleset) to generate the land masses in the world map randomizer, then I generate the details in a second pass. I think there is a problem with tiles in FF6, though, in that some of them can be walked through in one direction only, so that's something to look for.

So one of you guys is trying to make a Final Fantasy 6 randomizer.
Been there, done that!  :wink:
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 08:16:00 PM by abyssonym »

thepatirckinator

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless you all!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2016, 02:06:49 PM »
I see! The Final Fantasy VI Randomizer has already been taken care of.

thepatirckinator

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless you all!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #70 on: January 04, 2017, 08:03:05 PM »
I wish you all the best of luck for the FF4 Roguelikefyer project!

Pinkpuff

  • Flan Princess
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Find a Megalixir in Unprecedented Crisis!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (concept only)
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2017, 03:23:51 PM »
Did you know that there's an unused multiplier in the Kick/Dark Wave Formula that's simply set to 00? You just need to make that 01 and it should deal double damage. Here is the info. on that... http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1883.msg23621#msg23621

I tried changing the 00 to 01 on an Unprecedented Crisis rom and it made it so that Dark Wave and Kick dealt like 10x more damage in the beginning and a negligible amount more damage near the end.
Let's dance!

thepatirckinator

  • Tunnel Armor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
  • God bless you all!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2017, 01:58:31 PM »
The best part of Unprecedented Crisis rom is the most useless characters in the original game get buffed here. Fun Fact: Dark Knight Cecil's commands were the same as what Golbez had during version 1-2.1 of the Final Fantasy IV: Playable Golbez Edition mod.