Author Topic: FF4PSP - Journey Log  (Read 24009 times)

Grimoire LD

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #75 on: January 06, 2013, 10:15:56 PM »
Quite an exhaustive list, yes I have been keeping up with your playthrough. I did not know about the Infinity band but that kind of damage seems absolutely insane. I recall giving Dualcast personally to Palom with the Limit Ring so he could double cast Meteor for roughly 25,000 damage total. I'm not sure what would survive the Infinity band you have set up except for bosses.

Also I was referring to unused equipment/commands. If they cleaned up the game at all or if they perhaps added more unused items for plans they couldn't finish.

Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #76 on: January 07, 2013, 10:43:04 AM »
Dualcast is just not that useful on Palom unless it's double Flare... you would do 66 to 75% of the damage @ 50% of the MP and @ 75+% less time spent.. The math never agrees with Meteor IMO.

There's so much better stuff you can do with the Limit Ring... (I have Rydia having a field day with Bahamut as it is).

You could do Ice Crush + Palom in the Sky and that would produce more damage (with the Limit Ring) in the same amount of time (I haven't tried to compare the timing, but I love the combo itself) and it would costs less MP (well, in terms of Palom's MP pool).

Well, the opportunity is there... and I've already put Harley is #3 in the worst character list in my mind (Dolls being in the top 2).

Also, I think the amulet and bracelet could be a consolation prize for not salvaging the dolls. Personally I have no idea how one got from Golbez using them for evil to, just a pair of scary evil (and generally not useful) dolls. Of course, the Golbez event never explains how the Calcabrena was created if one doll is alive... it's like some hackish creation... because then it can change back into the complete set...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 10:56:12 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Grimoire LD

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2013, 12:35:49 PM »
I think I was fighting the secret boss's final form and didn't know of any of those sorts of bands, so I thought why not try to use a Double Meteor? Eh, it worked.

As for the dolls, it's clear that they were Luca's to begin with. She mentions them in FFIV. For what its worth Dwarves have Tanks (which they can somehow get to the Overworld) so old Calcabrina may have just been a piece of Dwarvish Technology, twisted to evil (and brought to sentience) for Golbez's purposes.

Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2013, 07:24:09 PM »
I always assumed Cid airlifted the tanks to the overworld with that fleet of Enterprise clones he somehow managed to outfit every overworld nation with while being bedridden in the underworld.

Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2013, 07:26:57 PM »
Two things I'd like to mention:

I keep forgetting that Ursula can equip the Queen's Whip. Despite this not having any statistical benefits (Monk power overrides weapon attack power anyways), it allows Ursula to hit from the back row w/o requiring the Reach Ring... which is a very good compromise for the Sword and Fist band party setup.

Combining Jump (or Human Kite) in certain bands allows you to do incredible damage during the special attack moon. Jump = double damage (x2) and the special attack moon bonus is 25% (x1.25). With basic math....

100 * 2 * 1.25 = 250

This means that potentially you would do an extra 50% damage just on the Jump boost alone! Pretty much any band with Jump is simply more deadly from this bonus alone... which means Kain is always a good candidate with the Limit Ring in bands involving Jump (like Spiral Blow with Golbez). Factoring that that the damage is then boosted by 50% just using the band (250 * 1.5 = 375), you are doing almost quadruple damage than you would using the Fight command...

Note: Mirage Dive has a 50% damage bonus...

It makes more sense to go with Ceodore's Double Jump (35MP) than Sky Grinder (45MP)... Ceodore might be weaker than Cecil, but he has a greater MP pool to work with and Kain is still doing the heavy work on the monster... all doing this using 10MP less.

BTW, with regards to the dolls... I'm trying to figure out how they can self-replicate in the Calcabrena battle.. that's was the point of the rant.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2013, 06:47:50 PM »
Blah blah blah...

Yea, I beat the game. Woohoo! Who hasn't?  :tongue:

Some notes:
Multiply (I think) seems to attack all characters with a physical based attack, but it can be easily blocked through Blink status.
Explode (I think) is magic based... since my party is constructed with the classic 5, the girls didn't suffer as much as the guys.

I used Mirage Dive (Kain with the Limit Ring) a bit more than I imagined as it was the goto combo I liked best.

Here's an awesome exploit of the "Transform" system.

The Creator will not use it on his own... you have to use a Band or Summon or probably neutral elemental spell (Flare) to change elemental weaknesses.

I had Cecil equipped with the Ragnarok and he's kinda useless until you realize the damage he is dealing is double than he normally does. Once that is known... one huge smack with Trinity Crusade... was awesome (32k damage).

Note: This would work with Palom in the Sky with Luca with the Thor's Hammer. Since I've done 18k before with the band... doubling that would be gold.

Fought him @ White Magic+, Black Magic- (Rydia would be limited to summons).

Auto-Reflect could be considered overpowered... then there's Edge who's much better than that.

Rosa healing is probably the most important aspect.... in fact you better gamble correctly to use Trinity Crusade (since it is elemental to begin with), so Haste on Rosa is most beneficial early on (I actually complain about slow healers... with good reason). The White Magic moon phase helped.

Megaflare-only mode was annoying. I hadn't tried Reflect, but the problem is that it would be difficult to heal under Reflect (if there were bands that did it better, this team isn't it). I'm sure Shell is nice... except that would actually require Rosa to spare a turn.

I remember reading how Edge was frail (this makes no sense to me). There's a reason why the game provides a crapload of Boomerangs for the sole purpose of PUTTING HIM IN THE BACK ROW.

I forget what this "balls attack" was named, but it seemed to always target Edge (topmost slot). The paralysis+damage attack (must have been lifted from the Squids or FF5's version of the same type of attack) seems to target the bottommost character in the group. This was in a 3-2 configuration.

I do not remember any specific elemental used, so elemental protection is overrated... magic defense is kinda poop (it has been since the original) but magic evasion is still king!

Alright... I'll have a better summation of the entire system for later... should be pretty easy to make out.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2013, 09:58:14 PM »
So... here's the basic formula... this is not perfect or totally accurate but if you have better ideas... please share.

Basic Attack Formula:

Basic Damage = (Attacker's Attack Power * rand(1, 1.25) - Target's Defense Power)

If Attacker uses Aim, set Attacker's Accuracy = 99 (although it is probably set to 255 internally).
If Attacker is Blind, set Attacker's Accuracy = 0.

If Attacker is in back row w/o back row compatible weapon, Accuracy = Accuracy * .5 (both monsters and characters)
If Target is in back row and Attacker is not using back row compatible weapon, Accuracy = Accuracy *.5 (both monsters and characters)

Accuracy Multiplier =  (Attacker's Attack Multiplier * Accuracy - Target's Defense Multiplier * Target's Evasion)

If Accuracy Multiplier < 0, Skip All Steps and Miss!
If Accuracy Multiplier < 1, Test Chance To Hit (Attacker's Attack Multiplier * Accuracy = probability to hit)
On success: Accuracy Multiplier = Attacker's Attack Multiplier * .5, Otherwise, Miss and skip all other steps.
(for low accuracy weapons like the Lilith's Rod, this is applicable)

Note: For monsters, evasion is still zero AFAIK, with possible exceptions to the rule (Cagnazzo and Barbariccia and possibly other monsters)

Raw Damage = Basic Damage * Accuracy Multiplier

Then factor in all damage modifiers:

If Attacker is Mini or Toad, Damage = 1, Skip All Other Steps
If Target is Mini or Toad, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 2
(actually, I think the defense holdover of dropping it to zero might still happen, but I barely got to test it)

If Attacker is Cursed, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5
If Target is Cursed, Raw Damage = Raw Damage  * 2
(For cursed testing, I'm not actually sure this is correct, it could be applied earlier).

If Target has matching racial weakness to equipped weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 1.5 (for characters vs monsters, only one racial match will apply)
If Target has matching racial resistance thru armor, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 (for monsters vs characters, only one racial match will apply)

If Target has matching elemental weakness to equipped weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 2 (for characters vs monsters generally, only one elemental match will apply)
If Target has matching elemental resistance to equipped weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 (for both characters and monsters, only one elemental match will apply)
Note: Elemental weakness still takes precedence to elemental resistance when it comes to weapons.

If Attacker is in back row w/o back row compatible weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * .5 (both monsters and characters)
If Target is in back row and Attacker is not using back row compatible weapon, Raw Damage = Raw Damage *.5 (both monsters and characters)
(yes, lacking back row compatible weaponry hurts you double).

If Target has Protect applied, Raw Damage = Raw Damage * (1 - .125 * X)
X is the # of times Protect is applied, and is capped @ 4.

If Attacker dishes a critical hit (< 5% probability I think), Raw Damage = Raw Damage * 1.5
Note: It is possible to dish a critical hit, and totally miss. Critical hits will stack with Tenketsu, Focus, Jump, Human Kite, Big Throw, Aim (don't bother expecting it)
Special command multipliers:
Focus = Raw Damage * 2
Tenketsu = Raw Damage * 1.25
Jump = Raw Damage * 2
Human Kite = Raw Damage * 2

For magic, it's pretty much the same.

I believe the only rule that's different is the following:
Meteor cast by the enemy must apply the split damage penalty of 5 regardless of the # of targets on the field (both alive or dead).

Apply 1.25 to the Modified Calculated Damage (add or subtract from the Raw Damage, depending on the phase of the moon)

There are also special band rules:

1) In attempting to calculate the damage, you must break the attack into its bare components, ignoring ANY racial or elemental bonuses that the weapons provide. Do not factor in critical hits.

2) Most attack/physical bands will automatically apply a 50% damage bonus... so apply 1.5 to damage to the sum of the individual attacks.

3) Many bands will apply an elemental aspect to the attack, so they are generally factored in only there. Apply double damage (*2) to the damage for elemental weakness and/or half damage (*.5) to the damage to elemental weakness. Attacks with multiple elementals will stack the elemental modifiers (so, don't use your elemental bands on the Blue Dragon!). The special case of Cecil+Cid's Machine Break will try to deal bonus damage (like, maybe 2 times), then adding probably a 1.5 machine bonus. I'll have to make sure this is happening.

4) For those bands that don't quite seem to fit anywhere, you try to base it on the commands they occur with... White Magic will imply Spirit whereas Black Magic will imply Intelligence. If the spell effect you see is Holy-like, it probably is.. just like Flare. Healing will generally be SPR based. You should be able to tell who does what in any band.

5) The moon phase can affect spells more dramatically... like Infinity. Just cancel each offending bonus counters out (White Magic+, Black Magic-)

6) As mentioned before, Jump/Human Kite is INSANE with the damage bonus from the moon... but it's equally crippling.

7) Row does affect most physical based bands. Equipping back row compatible weapons or simply not targeting from/to the back row helps.

Damage will still round to 9999 unless provided with the Limit Ring or the natural limit break it provides.

If the attack is weapon based, apply all status effects from the weapon onto the enemy assuming no status resistance (if it has a compatible resistance, it will fail outright).
Hint: Status effects generally don't work on bosses...

 :edit:
I have a headache just typing this up. I need the sleep badly. Comment as you wish.

 :edit:
Added back row stuff, added Protect, etc etc

There probably should be an accompanying spell damage algo, but the simplicity of it is that the damage range is significantly lower (25% variance) but added variance to spells that are normally fixed.

 :edit:
Added more back row stuff, and one more golden rule about bands.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:57:50 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Grimoire LD

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2013, 12:45:11 PM »
As one would expect it seems pretty similar to FFIV. But I don't recall being able to get Critical Hits with things that weren't the fight command in normal FFIV. Also great research on the band data. Was Curse changed at all from FFIV to FFIVTAY? I can't quite recall that Damage multiplier in FFIV, then again in FFIV only one or two enemies used Curse in the first place so it was a non-issue.

Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2013, 04:52:16 PM »
I've noted that specifically in the PSP port that "various" things from the original has been tweaked in the FF4 portion. Sometimes they are not as meaningful (status resistance in battle), but it's kinda hard to miss the flash for critical hits (unless you black out or have a seizure).

Curse has changed... I used it explicitly on flan (Golbez's/Lunarian's Tale) and I could still not damage them with the Defender. That's the only reason why I remember it as such.

It wasn't a Damage Multiplier in FF4.. it was an Attack Power Modifier (and Defense Power Modifier). Curse is limited for the few you pay attention to (the sword bearing monsters usually found in FF4's Land of Summoned Monsters and reddish dragon skeleton monster in the Lunar Subterrane).

The formulas are not the same... because the fundamental chunks involved are moved around and redone. They have a very different play in how you take damage (you'd have to put some statistics into it). For instance, the TAY coding ensures you will take damage, unless you're in the back row with a shield or if you have magic damage, you'd have to have insane magic evasion...

Now that I think about it, I need to add some more stuff...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2013, 01:43:13 PM »
Alright... some Haste/Slow notes

1) It isn't stackable. Don't bother asking me why. Using Slow twice on a target does not slow it down further - checked it with the ATB race of sorts.

2) Slow negates Haste, and vice versa. It is cheaper to use Dispel to remove Slow status than it is to Haste. Bands that inflict Slow or Haste will react in the same manner.

3) Spider Silk is double powered Slow... like Hermes Shoes for Haste. Not only will Spider's Silk remove Haste, it also applies Slow. However, since Slow isn't stackable, one use is enough in most cases. The best benefit is that it ignores Reflect...

4) Double Pressure is still a White Mageless team's expensive Slow. I still have no fucking clue how Golbez looking silly allows Cecil to cast Slow.

Subsequently, I found that Sap only deals 40 damage. This is unaffected by Slow or Haste.

In some experimentation... Ultima Spark is kinda like having a Holy+Flare type of attack, but actually being non-elemental (I thought it wasn't for a bit) as this was tested against the magic absorber itself, the Blue Dragon. Limit Ring makes this useful.

Advanced Blade is non-elemental as far as I can tell... Golbez depending on his INT can add to the damage that a combined Cecil+Ceodore can do by like 10k damage. I don't think there's a bonus here, but I could be wrong.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2013, 06:10:19 PM »
I forgot to mention that Haste seems to increase the ATB speed by 2... and Slow seems to decrease the ATB speed by 1/2. Chances are it could be more or less... depending on the AGI of the character in question...

So I'm kinda grinding some levels to 80 or so, and primarily focusing on boosting the dolls with mostly half of their complete phase equipment (missing shield+armor).

When you look at the fact that the Phase Cutter has the same attack power as the Ragnarok... it's really nasty.

So... converting semi-lame scary dolls to the reviving Chucky and his bride is what I'm seeing damage-wise. This already moves them behind Harley as the worst characters in the game.... possibly surpassing Edward...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2013, 12:40:50 AM »
Mystic Waltz is kinda interesting..

75% of the time, it does a multitarget cast of Confuse and Silence. It's not a bad utility status attack and the spells will fail to cast if the targets are immune (at the very least, if the monster is only resistant to one of the statuses, the other will still apply).

25% of the time, the bird is the word. The small chocobo that is used in Confuse simply rains down like it was some sort of Meteor... and hurts every target on the field. The damage seemed to be powered by Calca and Brena's combined attack (+50% bonus) and it seemed to do less damage when the target had defense... like the Flan... but it still hurt a lot. Damage was approximately 10 to 12k on low defense monsters and 8k+ on flan. Imagine the damage dealt when special attacks are boosted (Dance, Jive, and Bardsong would make it benefit significantly).

Also, the Phase Armor set seems to have some "hidden" elemental properties:
Phase Helm: Ice
Phase Knuckles: Lightning

Others, I'll report back when I obtain the armors... but suffice it to say, a lot of the doll's equipment seem to have additional hidden properties, like Berserk resistance (but not Confuse resistance or Poison resistance).
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2013, 02:27:23 PM »
I forgot to mention that the dolls have some hidden protection against Paralysis as well (thru armor, I suspect).

Go! Calcabrena seems to be powered additionally by Luca's attack, with probably a 25% bonus. On its own, it doesn't really need the Limit Ring... although the damage goes upwards towards 12K.

Final Calcabrena definitely needs the Limit Ring as it has dealt 20k worth of damage. It's effectively the worth of having Cid's attack, with a 50% bonus...

Neither band seem to be affected by the moon phases.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2013, 03:14:04 PM »
I personally loved the dolls and I had no idea the Phase equipment was specifically for them (I guess it makes sense since they're on robots) but its a real shame that they'd only be useful this late in the game. I really think that other enemies should have had the chance to drop Outfits and the like that the dolls could have equipped to stay in the game.

I was very disappointed to see that Golbez and Calcabrena didn't have a Band though, something like "Master Puppeteer" or something, ah well. Missed opportunities, it happens.

Deathlike2

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Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2013, 03:27:39 PM »
Go! Calcabrena and Final Calcabrena are affected by the Special Attack moon phases...

Final Calcabrena is ultimately 2 times the attack of Go! Calcabrena (the dolls attack twice essentially), but the math doesn't play exactly like that. For quadruple the MP (10MP for Go! Calcabrena for 3 characters, 30MP for Final Calcabrena for 4 characters), you deal only 66% more damage overall.

Limit Ring not worthwhile with Go! Calcabrena when the moon negatively affects the dolls.

There's a small damage bonus if the target is solo (with Go! Calcabrena)... but only seems to be 1k extra damage worth.

It's kinda amazing how the Phase Helm is essentially a magic evasion multiplier in one (+20 INT, SPR)...

The dolls are like the fastest and one of the more stronger fighters when you get their equipment (I have yet to obtain the Shield or Armor).... especially given that they don't seem to be like that early on....

 :edit:
Calca and Brina Band (the classic Calcabrina) has the "Cura" version that is more like the Heal Dance... where the HP healed depends on the maxHP of the target (1/4 to 1/3 HP healed), less percentage of the healing happens as the maxHP grows, but more HP is gained...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 07:46:44 PM by Deathlike2 »
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