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Locos_Docos

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The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« on: January 13, 2010, 05:09:31 AM »
Something I've been curious about for a long time.  When I used to fight Tyranosaurs in the Dino Forest, when I would use Celes's Runic skill, I observed that the Meteor spell would not be absorbed.  I had wondered why some spells like Meteor, Merton, Quake, and W Wind (Tornado) could not be absorbed while most other spells could be.

This didn't become a serious issue until I played FF6A and fought against the Kaiser Dragon.  When I used Runic and the Kaiser Dragon used Hyperdrive, the Runic animation activated and the spell was absorbed.

The attack that always does 9999 damage and was only used by Siegfried and Kefka could be Runiced/Runicked.  What is unique about this absorption was that there was no numerical value that appeared under Celes after the Hyperdrive animation ended that would otherwise show up when a spell is absorbed.

What I like to know is if there's any documentation on the Runic command regarding:

a) A list of all the spells that can be Runiced/Runicked.
b) Why Hyperdrive is Runicable/Runickable.
c) If/How spells can be toggled or modified to be affected by Runic.
d) Why Vanish goes off if it's Runiced/Runicked but only cosmetically (a few seconds after Celes "vanishes," she reappears).

And finally, which spelling is official: Runiced/Runicable or Runicked/Runickable? Both are being used by the community of the internet and doing the slash thing throughout this entire post is getting irritating.
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Deathlike2

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 09:52:35 AM »
I would suggest that you read the FF3 Algo FAQ since that covers most of what you need to know. You could also use some of the FF3 Editors to determine which spells are affected under Runic.
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Lenophis

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 02:28:40 PM »
It's actually fairly easy. Any spell that is single target (ie Hyperdrive, Fire3, etc) can be Runic'ed. Any spell that is party-wide (ie Ultima, Meteor) cannot be Runic'ed. I don't remember if there are exceptions to this or not, been too long. :sleep:
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Deathlike2

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 04:26:41 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on January 13, 2010, 02:28:40 PM
It's actually fairly easy. Any spell that is single target (ie Hyperdrive, Fire3, etc) can be Runic'ed. Any spell that is party-wide (ie Ultima, Meteor) cannot be Runic'ed. I don't remember if there are exceptions to this or not, been too long. :sleep:

You can Runic Ultima you goof.

There is no hard and fast rule of thumb. You know Runic fails when there isn't a reaction to the spell attack.

My answer for question D: There isn't any other reason, but consider that Vanish itself removes its own status or the possibility that a Vanished Celes/Gogo under Runic has this status removed is the logical reasoning for this behavior. It's very much like how Imp temporarily makes Celes/Gogo an Imp when Runic is being active... these are cosmetic effects that would probably need some recoding to handle certain cases.. it's probably easier to fix them after the spell effects.
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Lenophis

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 04:58:36 PM »
Ok, then this would probably apply the best:

Square chose the spells based merely on "uhh, that." :bah: Clear as mud?
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Odbarc

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 08:45:02 AM »
Um, if you have Lord J's multieditor, spells have a flag which is either active or inactive which declares whether or not a spell can be runiced. There are lots of other flags like element, misses-if-immune-to-death, reflectable and stuff like that.

Like Lenophis said, it either can be or cannot be. The spells that are naturally decided to be runiced are just... I dunno, the unrunicables seem to be indirect spells like Quake and stuff. I was surprised to discover Ultima can be runiced. That's weird! The strongest spells in the game?

(Hyperdrive doesn't always do 9999. It's just really powerful. With proper equipment/level, I think it can do 5000 or 7500. Still, ouch.)
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Deathlike2

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 02:23:45 PM »
One would argue Meteor or GrandTrain would be a better ultimate given being able to be absorbed by Runic.

Those spells would still be better than the overrated Wind Slash.
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Odbarc

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 04:59:52 PM »
I hate how weak Quasar is. It's like the last spell in the game you acquire (I can't think of a sooner time than Kefka's final tower).

Monsters don't use runic so it's not like it'll work against you. I don't specifically enjoy the animation of ultima plus it's prone to have it's damage reset more than any other spell. That's it's true weakness.
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Deathlike2

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 05:50:33 PM »
Quote from: Odbarc on January 14, 2010, 04:59:52 PM
I hate how weak Quasar is. It's like the last spell in the game you acquire (I can't think of a sooner time than Kefka's final tower).

Someone screwed that up IMO... although GrandTrain is really the product of a Strago specific quest...

Quote
Monsters don't use runic so it's not like it'll work against you. I don't specifically enjoy the animation of ultima plus it's prone to have it's damage reset more than any other spell. That's it's true weakness.

Well, only one boss uses it, and nevermore.   :finger:
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Odbarc

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 10:31:15 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on January 14, 2010, 05:50:33 PM
Quote from: Odbarc on January 14, 2010, 04:59:52 PM
I hate how weak Quasar is. It's like the last spell in the game you acquire (I can't think of a sooner time than Kefka's final tower).

Someone screwed that up IMO... although GrandTrain is really the product of a Strago specific quest...

Quote
Monsters don't use runic so it's not like it'll work against you. I don't specifically enjoy the animation of ultima plus it's prone to have it's damage reset more than any other spell. That's it's true weakness.

Well, only one boss uses it, and nevermore.   :finger:

Runic or Ultima? Kefka and Magi Master both use Ultima. I don't know of anything that uses Runic.
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vivify93

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 11:52:34 PM »
Quote from: Locos_Docos on January 13, 2010, 05:09:31 AM
And finally, which spelling is official: Runiced/Runicable or Runicked/Runickable? Both are being used by the community of the internet and doing the slash thing throughout this entire post is getting irritating.
Neither is really "official" per se, but due to the way the English language works, I'd say "Runicked", simply because of how the word "mimic", which is very similar in sound to "Runic", is put into past tense as "mimicked", hence "Runicked". I can't really find anything to support the term "Runickable" or "Runicable" though. Anyway, when I read "Runiced", I read it as "roo-nissed", so the "k" will help signify it's a hard "c" and not a soft one.
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Deathlike2

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2010, 12:33:48 AM »
Quote from: Odbarc on January 14, 2010, 10:31:15 PM
Runic or Ultima? Kefka and Magi Master both use Ultima. I don't know of anything that uses Runic.

Runic. Remember the "Spek"? The monster "absorbs" spells. Air Force was still a lame battle though.
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Odbarc

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2010, 09:24:57 AM »
Oh, yeah. That...
Is that really runic though? I've never had Ultima here to test it.
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Deathlike2

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2010, 11:22:30 AM »
Quote from: Odbarc on January 15, 2010, 09:24:57 AM
Oh, yeah. That...
Is that really runic though? I've never had Ultima here to test it.

That's a more perma-ish Runic than anything in this game!
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Imzogelmo

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Re: The Mechanics of Runiced/Runicked Spells
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2010, 05:46:13 PM »

Runic is just a flag for spells. You can view/edit this in Lord J's FF3usME (I've never tried changing these, but the option is there). Most spells in the Magic menu have it set, and only a handful of monster spells have it.

For the lazy reference:
Meteor, Quake, W Wind, Merton, Warp, and Quick are the only player-spells that don't have it set.

No Lores have Runic set.

Megazerk, Blaster, Atomic Ray, Tek Laser, Diffuser, Mega Volt, Giga Volt, 50 Gs, N. Cross, Hyperdrive, Disaster, Shim Sham, Scar Beam, and Fire Wall are the enemy spells that are susceptible to Runic.
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The cosmetics of it are probably related to the fact that a spell animation happens significantly later than the actual calculations of it. That is to say, the result of an attack is determined a few seconds before the character ever steps forward and does the attack. Runic probably is not checked until a bit later. I'm not sure about this, and it could use some investigation.
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As for the spelling, adding a 'k' is actually a rule in English. Although it is a very obscure one, I presume the rule exists to keep the hard 'c' intact, as generally 'c' before 'i' or 'e' is soft. So, 'Runicker', 'Runickee', but 'Runicable'...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 06:05:53 PM by Imzogelmo »
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