øAslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=1768.msg17673e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index3d2c-2.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&action=profile;u=6;area=showposts;start=405e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index3d2c-2.html.zx®žh^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÈ@>Ô™OKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip@øÕÔ™ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿWed, 11 Mar 2020 08:34:15 GMT0ó°° ®0®P®€§²ð®®žh^ðÔ™ FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?

« previous next »
Pages: 1

Author Topic: FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?  (Read 2960 times)

Deathlike2

  • FF4 R&D Master
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?
« on: October 12, 2012, 12:24:48 AM »
I've complained lots about FF4A, particularly regarding how the trials suck... mostly regarding the story (because, they aren't really that great, outside of say Kain).

However, I remember one trial that is shockingly the worst above all else (feel free to disagree).

Edward's Trial is built poorly on a faulty premise... Edward may suck, but the game gives you all the tools to make his life a living hell.

1) Requirem Harp - Why put in a weapon only to be removed? It could arguably be a great weapon (better than the Blood Lance and Blood Sword).. assuming they got it working correctly the first time around. However, the mistake in doing this in the first place causes Edward to lose the weapon before the boss battle... IIRC. I guess it could be worse.... the designated special weapon for Edward, Apollo's Harp, is a very capable weapon vs Lunar Shiva... so this mistake can cost you when you are using Edward to fight...

2) Low HP - Edward has approximately the same HP growth as Rydia... and that's only slightly above the twins (Porom being the worst of the final party members, Tellah and FuSoYa trailing horribly). Considering that the boss, Lunar Shiva uses an attack that is primarily HP based (based on her current HP), this makes survival tough... except for the fact...

3) Red Armor set (FF6-ish armor) - It's great when armor provides elemental resistance. It's hard to argue against it. However, FF4 has been designed around elemental weakness in armor... and causes "fire resistance" to also create "ice weakness". Factor in that the boss is Lunar Shiva... well, you give the keys to killing Edward in one easy blow. Vishnu Vest is Edward's ultimate armor, however IIRC this is only acquired AFTER Edward's Trial location. This would normally addressed the Red Armor set's woes.. but most newbies won't figure that out. Maybe donating a Protect Ring would be helpful... probably. The other options are a freed up Black Belt and/or the DarkHood...

Now if only the Chant command weren't useless against Zeromus...
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Pinkpuff

  • Flan Princess
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Find a Megalixir in Unprecedented Crisis!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2012, 07:08:23 AM »
Just Hide from the ice attack. Also you can change equipment in battle so losing an equipped Requiem is not that big a deal.

Though it would have been nice if you got to keep the Requiem.

Also yeah Ed doesn't really bring much to the table for the Zeromus battle at all... but he's so good in the rest of the Lunar Suberran. I usually take him in my first final party.
Logged
Let's dance!

Deathlike2

  • FF4 R&D Master
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2012, 12:43:22 PM »
I have the expectation that Edward should never hide... he has to be productive on the field. Otherwise, his existence is effectively worthless.

I'm not saying Hide doesn't have tactical value... outside of those instances, it's kinda crippling when he auto-Hides on his own when you want to heal him.

I've always used him in some sort of support offense role. I have a low expectation of him by design.

Then again, the Assassin Dagger+Hero Shield combo makes him 1 of 3 that can absorb Holy (more if we're using the earlier FF4A versions)...

Does he still get healed by Hide+Sylph in the Wii/PSP versions?
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Pinkpuff

  • Flan Princess
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Find a Megalixir in Unprecedented Crisis!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 07:49:06 AM »
Yeah the auto-hide thing was a pretty silly idea. I mean I get it from a flavor perspective, but from a gameplay/balance standpoint, when you're about to die is exactly when you want to be able to be targeted so you can be healed. And heck, since he can use Hide as a command anyways, if you for some reason really felt like hiding was the right thing to do, he could still do it! IMHO if flavor was that important what they could have done is had him lose auto-hide after the cutscene with Anna, since she inspires him to have courage so it would reflect in the gameplay that now he's not so much of a coward anymore.

Also I agree for the most part that Hide is not a command that should be used much at all, but I do make an exception for big group attacks. Particularly for ones as telegraphed as the summons. He may not be attacking that turn, but he's not dying (which would be like hiding but worse since you can't just decide to come back and start fighting again, you have to use other people's turns to res him and hope he survives), nor is his hiding causing more damage to the rest of the party (which it normally would against single-targting effects as they'd now only randomize among the remaining party members). In that sense I would compare it to Edge's Image spell. When Edge casts Image, he's not doing anything to actively help towards killing the bad guys, nor is he doing anything to help protect anyone other than himself. But sometimes absorbing a couple of hits means he can survive to do more damage or be otherwise more helpful in future (like in early behemoth battles and such).
Logged
Let's dance!

Dragonsbrethren

  • Forum Overlord
  • *
  • Posts: 1,820
    • View Profile
    • Dragonsbrethren Industries
Re: FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2012, 04:34:01 PM »
Really you should just be able to target him when he's hidden. Prevent monsters from hitting him, but let your items/magic affect him. FF4 has a lot of design like that, where it seems like they didn't really think things through. Likewise, auto-hide is okayish as a concept, but if I unhide him, don't hide him again automatically.
Logged

Deathlike2

  • FF4 R&D Master
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4A/PSP - Edward's Trial, Rigged Intentionally or Stupidly?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 11:43:00 AM »
Auto-hide should have been some sort of toggle.

v1 is terrible (SNES versions), since Edward's agility would allow him to be the first chicken to hide on demand. I forget the exact behavior, but it made healing him difficult in battle.

v2 is better (GBA/PSP), but Edward's agility and poor timing could prevent him from being healed before "auto-hide on his turn" kicks in.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3
Pages: 1
« previous next »