Aslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=2041.msg23219e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index3ff7.htmldelayedslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=2041.30e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index3ff7.html.zx g^&OKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip8:HTue, 10 Mar 2020 04:51:44 GMT0 0Pg^> Final battle freezes everyone / Grimoire LD plays Unprecedented Crisis

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Grimoire LD

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2015, 06:43:12 PM »
My internet has been Awful the last couple of days so I meant to have some progress reports before now, but ah well. I have the rest of today and tomorrow off so I won't to proceed with this.

New version:

http://timecave.net/ff4kster/crisis/Unprecedented%20Crisis%200.2%20Alpha.zip

I re-removed the magic evasion. It was causing strange things, like jump to miss and such. Basically the hack is designed with the original game mechanics in mind and I think I'm too far along to go back over it all, even if it would be for the best.

Magic Evasion was never fully tested by Square I feel. I'm pretty sure on that because the default numbers they assign are Insane and makes Magic nearly useless in many respects. However Jump missing is due to ordinary evasion, after all Jump does only increase Accuracy x2. Which is why the abysmal Blood Spear doesn't get much better even with Jump.
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So I'm up to the Antlion's den at this point.
The only extra thing I have to contribute to the conversation is that you might want to consider including at least a minor "reversal" earlier in the hack.
I mean, I'm enjoying it so far, but so far it's really just been FFIV with some minor modifications. And I'm OK with that, but if I didn't know that I was on the precipice of some major differences, I'm not sure I would still be playing.
So, seeing as how one of the gameplay goals was to have seasoned FFIV players say, "oh, wow, that's not what I was expecting," you might want to offer a taste of that up front.
And I don't really want to suggest what you might do differently - obviously from what Grimoire's saying, a lot has been done beginning shortly after where I am currently in the game, and from his reactions it seems like you've done a lot of cool stuff, so I don't wanna screw with your grand scheme - just some food for thought.


Sorry to hear that, but I don't think that's in the cards right now. I think it's in a pretty good place, and the fewer significant changes I have before that turnabout, the more impact it will have for people not expecting it. I'm sure there will be some people disappointed no matter what I do.

I have one suggestion to make on this, I wonder if you might want to have Cecil be the one who falls under Desert Fever? He ostensibly carried a young girl through what was no doubt a stupor since he had just been blasted by Quake and afterwards fought an intense battle to keep her safe and as such have Rosa as the temporary main character who goes to the Antlion's Den to receive the SandRuby for Cecil? This is actually a rather small change as far as the gameplay is concerned where as your Fabul and beyond is a nearly completely different set of events, but it could be neat and would keep the veterans on their toes (it would also supply Some use for the Shortbow you can buy in Kaipo)

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At Level 30 Cecil finally breaks 1000 HP!

You were tackling Ciriatto before Level 30? Wow, I'm impressed you lasted as long as you did!

As am I really. Yes there seems to be some crucial spells you need before fighting Ciriatto Stop for both Porom and Rosa and Porom must know Cure3 to keep the party up.

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Oh! Bonk! has random buffs! I see now.

It randomizes between Esuna "come to your senses", Blink "became blurry", Haste "go faster", and Arise "wake up".

If I may make a suggestion... I believe Porom starts with Haste, if not, she gains it very shortly thereafter. Perhaps you may want to make Haste a later learned ability like Blink is making a casting of Haste through this still a welcome boon.

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And that's the Eight Fiends Down! As you mentioned, I should remind you to update the patch at this point.

Link at the top. Remind me again when you're about to tackle the Lunar Subterranne.

Alright! I will do.

And now back to the game...

First, let's see if the Flame Spear is worth picking up... yep! Looks like it, a nice attack upgrade for a relatively low price at this point in the game. Kain is also equipped quite well with an Aegis Shield, Diamond Armor, and Zeus Gauntlets.

He also has nearly double the HP of anyone else in the party.

Giott still mentions the other Crystals. Should there be new lines for him at this point for this mod?

Heh, an odd effect of still having access to the Airship when the Tanks are on the ground, they appear to grow in size with the Airship.

And back to the Tower of Babil!

Ninja Gear in the very first chest, quite nice!

Oh! I almost forgot to pick up more Shurikens, 67 more to be exact.

3 Eggs and a Queen Lamia? I don't recall any encounter in FFIV having ever more than one egg.

Oh. Do the Lamia no longer count as Undead? A Cure3 from Porom cured them.

Hmm, a Rune Ring from that, that's some decent selling fodder.

Whoa, the Armlet increases Vitality by 10 and provides a great boost to Defense all around! Definitely a worthy replacement to the Magic Gloves.

Hmm, maybe it's just my imagination but was the first floor of the tower's layout changed slightly?

Wow, Ice-3 is a nasty counter from the Ghost Knights, thankfully they can be silenced.

Cecil makes fools of the Alerts in the Tower of Babil making getting some ordinarily tricky chests a breeze.

Eh? Look like all of Edge's best equipment is here?

New sword for Edge, thankfully I didn't have enough to buy the one in the Feymarch!

Hey! Alright! Palom finally learned Bio!

Hmm, Porom learned Harm! I wonder how useful that would have been against Ciriatto...

The Ogre Axe is a pretty good upgrade for Kain.

Was this part of the dungeon always separated like this? Is my memory of the Tower of Babil really That bad?

Heh, the Frost Dragon's Blizzard seems to only hit Cecil now.

Ah? The way to the Center of the Tower is inaccessible, eh?

Very nice! A Diamond Ring from a normal battle with IronMan.

Going into the top floor of the Underworld Tower of Babil where Dr. Lugae was has the map name "D".

Ah? The two parts of the tower are connected in this?

What a fine choice!

And Palom learned Quake! Looks like things could be getting a bit easier from hereon out.

That was... odd... I went through the door where the Falcon would be and I was shown another map for a brief instant before I was warped to the other side of the Super Cannon bridge.

Umm... when I went into this room the scene from Zot's Crystal Room started to play... I cannot think this was intentional.

And that's as far as I can go... well so far it's been fun. The tower's been a bit easy, but I am well equipped at this point.




Pinkpuff

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2015, 07:19:31 PM »
I have one suggestion to make on this, I wonder if you might want to have Cecil be the one who falls under Desert Fever? He ostensibly carried a young girl through what was no doubt a stupor since he had just been blasted by Quake and afterwards fought an intense battle to keep her safe and as such have Rosa as the temporary main character who goes to the Antlion's Den to receive the SandRuby for Cecil? This is actually a rather small change as far as the gameplay is concerned where as your Fabul and beyond is a nearly completely different set of events, but it could be neat and would keep the veterans on their toes (it would also supply Some use for the Shortbow you can buy in Kaipo)

I appreciate the input but I think I'm still going to stick to the original plan of everything being the same plot-wise until the ship scene other than what absolutely needs changing due to the gameplay changes. The shortbow, much like the dreamer harp, is there just in case you accidentally sold or dropped your weapon somehow, then you're not completely screwed.

If I may make a suggestion... I believe Porom starts with Haste, if not, she gains it very shortly thereafter. Perhaps you may want to make Haste a later learned ability like Blink is making a casting of Haste through this still a welcome boon.

Maybe. I think either way, by the time the player gets the Mystic Hammer she'll probably have both Blink and Haste no matter how I do it unless I start giving them ridiculous spells early like Comet and such. Bonk is free and difficult for it to go wrong. You can even bonk a dead guy for a 25% chance of full revival.

First, let's see if the Flame Spear is worth picking up... yep! Looks like it, a nice attack upgrade for a relatively low price at this point in the game. Kain is also equipped quite well with an Aegis Shield, Diamond Armor, and Zeus Gauntlets.

He also has nearly double the HP of anyone else in the party.

He's definitely the tank.

Giott still mentions the other Crystals. Should there be new lines for him at this point for this mod?

Yup. You'll also notice Luca is still looking for her dolls. I haven't updated the Dwarves' speeches for after the epic battle.

Heh, an odd effect of still having access to the Airship when the Tanks are on the ground, they appear to grow in size with the Airship.

Yeah I guess they were never meant to appear when you had an airship. Not much I can do about it other than not having them appear at all, which I think would be worse.

And back to the Tower of Babil!

3 Eggs and a Queen Lamia? I don't recall any encounter in FFIV having ever more than one egg.

That's an original encounter.

Oh. Do the Lamia no longer count as Undead? A Cure3 from Porom cured them.

I didn't change them in that respect.

Hmm, a Rune Ring from that, that's some decent selling fodder.

Whoa, the Armlet increases Vitality by 10 and provides a great boost to Defense all around! Definitely a worthy replacement to the Magic Gloves.

Hmm, maybe it's just my imagination but was the first floor of the tower's layout changed slightly?

Unchanged.

Wow, Ice-3 is a nasty counter from the Ghost Knights, thankfully they can be silenced.

Cecil makes fools of the Alerts in the Tower of Babil making getting some ordinarily tricky chests a breeze.

I might give the regular alerts more HP. I didn't strengthen the regular monsters in the tower because it's so dang long. Each encounter is fairly easy but it's a bit of a grind getting all the way up.

Eh? Look like all of Edge's best equipment is here?

Something like that ^_^

New sword for Edge, thankfully I didn't have enough to buy the one in the Feymarch!

Hey! Alright! Palom finally learned Bio!

Hmm, Porom learned Harm! I wonder how useful that would have been against Ciriatto...

Would probably have done a number on those Reapers, that's for sure.

The Ogre Axe is a pretty good upgrade for Kain.

Was this part of the dungeon always separated like this? Is my memory of the Tower of Babil really That bad?

I cut off the part that used to be the cannon; it's now the crystal room.

Ah? The two parts of the tower are connected in this?

What a fine choice!

Thanks! I wanted the tower to seem as tall on the inside as it does on the outside.

And Palom learned Quake! Looks like things could be getting a bit easier from hereon out.

Living up to his boasts...

That was... odd... I went through the door where the Falcon would be and I was shown another map for a brief instant before I was warped to the other side of the Super Cannon bridge.

Umm... when I went into this room the scene from Zot's Crystal Room started to play... I cannot think this was intentional.

And that's as far as I can go... well so far it's been fun. The tower's been a bit easy, but I am well equipped at this point.

Just checked the event script for the "falcon" door and it said "If Defeated Malacoda is ON, do the next 0 actions"  :isuck:

Anyway that's fixed now, among some other things:

http://timecave.net/ff4kster/crisis/Unprecedented%20Crisis%200.3%20Alpha.zip
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2015, 01:06:42 AM »

Heh, an odd effect of still having access to the Airship when the Tanks are on the ground, they appear to grow in size with the Airship.

Yeah I guess they were never meant to appear when you had an airship. Not much I can do about it other than not having them appear at all, which I think would be worse.

I fully agree, better to have them, than not.

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Wow, Ice-3 is a nasty counter from the Ghost Knights, thankfully they can be silenced.

Cecil makes fools of the Alerts in the Tower of Babil making getting some ordinarily tricky chests a breeze.

I might give the regular alerts more HP. I didn't strengthen the regular monsters in the tower because it's so dang long. Each encounter is fairly easy but it's a bit of a grind getting all the way up.

Eh, just slightly. I think the Alerts need the boost though. Since any player at this point will have the Avenger, where as people back then likely didn't know about the Edge/Thunder Claw trick to take out most machines.


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Just checked the event script for the "falcon" door and it said "If Defeated Malacoda is ON, do the next 0 actions"  :isuck:

Anyway that's fixed now, among some other things:

http://timecave.net/ff4kster/crisis/Unprecedented%20Crisis%200.3%20Alpha.zip

Oh hey! I am glad to see my custom Event code getting some use.

And now back to the game...


Hmm, on my way back through the Tower of Babil I got a Shadow Shield from an encounter with Queen Lamia, Lamia, and Black Cats, did not see that coming.

...Did I just end up in the Giant of Babil?

Judging by the foes, it would seem so.

Oh hey! Cecil learns Bio as well! Neat!

And Porom learns... Exit? I thought that spell was removed actually.

The Defender Sword here? Hmm, interesting.

...But it's not for the Dark Knight... could a class change be coming up soon?

So this is where the Yoichi Bow was hiding? Well, that works well enough.

Porom and Kain make pretty swift work of Mac Giants with their Robot/Giant smashing capabilities!

Ah, the Gungnir Lance! I rather liked that you put the Genji Armor and Gungnir in the dungeon rather than just having them be given with Kain 3. Good thinking.

Finally the Save Point... Palom's MP had been very low for a long time by this point.

Dr. Lugae! I had thought he wouldn't be in this. But being inside the Giant of Babil again makes a Lot of sense!

Edge does make a quizzical statement that he had believed that they finished off Dr. Lugae in the Tower of Babil... unless I'm forgetting a boss battle in the first ascent from the Overworld... is something like that planned?

Judging by Edge's dialogue it seemed as if Dr. Lugae was supposed to run away (considering Edge stepped right into where Dr. Lugae was standing) and Edge was chasing after him, but he didn't budge.

...What is special about the Gungnir that a Jump on the CPU would deal 9999?

Lost to the CPU because of Avenger Cecil... should have known better on that one.

And that's that. CPU down. Normal strategy basically prevailed here, except instead of Edge dealing 9999 with Thunder Claws it was Kain with the Gungnir Lance.

Well that was odd, there was second sprite of Lugae at the exit to the Giant.

So Edge leaves the party for now... that would explain why some of his best equipment was there.

Wow! I'm back on the Overworld! I didn't expect it would take That long to escape from Eblan, hehe.


Hmm, but I thought we were going to the tower to reclaim the other 7 Crystals? Or was that a trap door that waylaid us and put us in the Giant instead?

Um... there's a Sprite of Edge at Troia Castle which says "Welcome to Troia!"

So I guess I can't go back there... yet?

Well, let's check out Mythril while I have the chance!

A nice amount of GP is here, especially at that point in the game.

Oh...! So this is where Cid's second Axe was supposed to be.

Well... I've travelled everywhere except Mysidia so... to Mysidia then?

Alright, so not Mysidia... Cave Magnes?

Though it appears to have been altered pretty heavily, no. Not yet anyhow.


Mt. Ordeals...?

...Beyond the Tower of Babil Crystal Room?

Edge is appropriately in Eblan Hideout with an appropriate line, so... maybe?

...No, I get dropped into the Giant of Babil again.

And I have no idea where to go. I've been everywhere that I can reach except Mist, I went to Fabul Castle, Baron Castle, Mysidia, Mythril, Agart, there's nothing that I saw to point the way.

Pinkpuff

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2015, 05:18:32 AM »
You weren't supposed to end up in the Giant just then. Looks like something is still wrong with that trigger. Odd, as it was just fine on my last playthrough and I don't recall touching it since then... I'll have to load up my closest save and debug it. I'll post again when it's fixed.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2015, 07:40:03 AM »
http://timecave.net/ff4kster/crisis/Unprecedented%20Crisis%200.4%20Alpha.zip

Ok that part's fixed, though it does bring up something odd that I've noticed with the conditional flag patch. Every now and then, it will cause the event to jump backwards instead of forwards, by a strange amount, sometimes going back into previous event scripts. 99% of the time it's fine, but once in a while that happens. Sometimes jimmying things around in the event fixes it but sometimes it doesn't. I wish I could be more precise.

 :edit: If you downloaded before this edit, please re-download and re-patch to a clean rom. I fixed the Edge NPC bug. Also I forgot to mention, I hope you didn't save when you got to the overworld, or at least if you did that you didn't save over your regular save file... if you did, I think you're trapped.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 07:58:13 AM by Pinkpuff »
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2015, 11:57:08 AM »
http://timecave.net/ff4kster/crisis/Unprecedented%20Crisis%200.4%20Alpha.zip

Ok that part's fixed, though it does bring up something odd that I've noticed with the conditional flag patch. Every now and then, it will cause the event to jump backwards instead of forwards, by a strange amount, sometimes going back into previous event scripts. 99% of the time it's fine, but once in a while that happens. Sometimes jimmying things around in the event fixes it but sometimes it doesn't. I wish I could be more precise.

 :edit: If you downloaded before this edit, please re-download and re-patch to a clean rom. I fixed the Edge NPC bug. Also I forgot to mention, I hope you didn't save when you got to the overworld, or at least if you did that you didn't save over your regular save file... if you did, I think you're trapped.

Now that is troubling... yes I had no idea anything was wrong so I played and saved as normal. I guess that means I'll have to start a new game then... I'll get to that later today.

I am worried though that there is something wrong with my conditional routines then... they should not be able to go backwards, the only thing I can imagine is that the Event Progress Placement could somehow be going awry with jumping around too often? I'm rather at a loss for how such a thing could occur though.

Bahamut ZERO

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Seeing as I have a hefty chunk of free time today and can't really mess around on my computer much today, I'll give this bad boy a go and give some feedback (as well as play through more of Chillyfeez's Threat From Within).


I'm always up for another romp through FF4's world, especially when there are new experiences to have!
I update my graphics thread on almost a daily basis, so keep an eye out for new stuff!

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Re: Final battle freezes everyone
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2015, 06:46:25 PM »
Now that is troubling... yes I had no idea anything was wrong so I played and saved as normal. I guess that means I'll have to start a new game then...

That makes me sad :(
Now I'll have to wait a long time to hear your continued adventures...
You should probably keep multiple saves going though just in case, as this is an alpha version after all and still under active development and has had very little in the way of debugging.

I'll get to that later today.

Glad to hear you're not too disheartened...

I am worried though that there is something wrong with my conditional routines then... they should not be able to go backwards, the only thing I can imagine is that the Event Progress Placement could somehow be going awry with jumping around too often? I'm rather at a loss for how such a thing could occur though.

I'll have to mess around with it a bit more to be able to give you any more detail I'm afraid. Even that might be difficult because it usually works just fine out of the gate; it's only certain specific instructions in certain specific events which trying to skip them causes it to jump backward.

Seeing as I have a hefty chunk of free time today and can't really mess around on my computer much today, I'll give this bad boy a go and give some feedback (as well as play through more of Chillyfeez's Threat From Within).

I'm always up for another romp through FF4's world, especially when there are new experiences to have!

More feedback is always appreciated!
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Grimoire LD

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I'm back up to Damcyan and bizarrely all Flame sprites there appear to have turned into King Giott's sprites.

Interestingly enough I'm playing on the BSNES emulator which has an option to upscale graphics and FFIV looks Pretty good with this on!


Pinkpuff

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Haha King Giott came up from the underground to lay siege to Damcyan! This is what happens when you go replacing NPCs you thought were unused...
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chillyfeez

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It's probably a bit late in the process as far as Crisis is concerned to go back and do this now, but I've adopted the practice of adding !!! to the end of anything I've used in the config files to avoid stuff like that happening.
I don't know if I've ever expressed this before, but your idea to make the config files part of FF4kster was nothing short of genius.

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It's probably a bit late in the process as far as Crisis is concerned to go back and do this now, but I've adopted the practice of adding !!! to the end of anything I've used in the config files to avoid stuff like that happening.
I don't know if I've ever expressed this before, but your idea to make the config files part of FF4kster was nothing short of genius.

It probably is; once I'm done the ending I'll probably do one more playthrough to iron out that kind of thing. And thanks  :blush: It came from wishing I had such a thing in FFHackster.

So.. speaking of the ending... I want to tear my hair out and cry right now. Grimoire, your flag branching patch is the most amazing thing ever, and I've been using it all over the place, especially to make the ending something truly special. But I'm at the point where I need to figure out what's causing it to jump to strange places, and if it's not possible/practical to fix, at least figure out how to get a handle on its behaviour. Is it possible that the save file saves something related to events? So that when I change the event space somewhere nearby, it thinks the branching instruction should send it somewhere different? The reason I speculate this is because when I loaded up the ending again, having changed nothing with the ending event's code, but having changed code in other events, it suddenly started misbehaving.
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Grimoire LD

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It's probably a bit late in the process as far as Crisis is concerned to go back and do this now, but I've adopted the practice of adding !!! to the end of anything I've used in the config files to avoid stuff like that happening.
I don't know if I've ever expressed this before, but your idea to make the config files part of FF4kster was nothing short of genius.

It probably is; once I'm done the ending I'll probably do one more playthrough to iron out that kind of thing. And thanks  :blush: It came from wishing I had such a thing in FFHackster.

So.. speaking of the ending... I want to tear my hair out and cry right now. Grimoire, your flag branching patch is the most amazing thing ever, and I've been using it all over the place, especially to make the ending something truly special. But I'm at the point where I need to figure out what's causing it to jump to strange places, and if it's not possible/practical to fix, at least figure out how to get a handle on its behaviour. Is it possible that the save file saves something related to events? So that when I change the event space somewhere nearby, it thinks the branching instruction should send it somewhere different? The reason I speculate this is because when I loaded up the ending again, having changed nothing with the ending event's code, but having changed code in other events, it suddenly started misbehaving.

This is not a good thing to hear, but if you can continue to replicate the issue, I should be able to pinpoint the point of departure. Is is possible for you to make the point in which it screws up a savestate for SNES9X Geiger's? If so I should be able to observe what is going on code wise and see particularly where my code is going awry.


Pinkpuff

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Not really, at least not any time soon. But in the zip should be a save file next to the final battle. When it activates, there's a part where it conditionally toggles visibility of an actor but instead it jumps back to the battle with Odin.
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Bahamut ZERO

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Just got Edward in the party and leveling him up some. My progress so far:


At first I was admittedly playing on auto-pilot. Didn't bother grabbing any of the chests in the castle nor did I go into town. Instead I went on a killing spree, gaining a few levels and gathering loot.

I like Cecil's Black magic setup. Status effects fit his job perfectly, and he has a nice pool of MP to use them with.

Rydia - while I somewhat miss her having black magic, I like her new setup much more. The "Help!" commands makes so much more sense on her than it would Tellah after the way she summons Titan in Mist.

Tellah - More spells at the cost of less MP is a nice tradeoff. I assume he'll gradually get some more  Mp as the journey goes on.

Now it was at this point while in Watery Cave that I realize I've been playing like a robot , and that Rydia's still level 2. I throw her in the back row with Tellah, and hope for the best while fighting Octomamm.


Octomamm -  I noticed it didn't change sprites during battle, making this fight feel like a real battle and not "smack the octo-squid X amount of times to win". To my relief, it seemed to do little damage to Rydia when compared to Tellah (6 to his 28) so she only died twice. Cool to see her learning summons! It makes me wonder if the Summon-learning items teach new spells in UC.


Damcyan - Oh god, Golbez's rebel land dwarves stormed the castle and turned Anna into a pin cushion! Just kidding, I'm sure that's meant to be fire. Though, it DOES give me a funny idea...

Edward - it's been so long since I've played FF4 with a normal Edward that I almost forgot how much I hate Auto-hide. But that's my feelings of the original, and nothing on your part haha.

Later tonight I'm hoping to get to at Fabul. Possibly further depending on how much I work on my projject today. I'm having fun so far!
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