øAslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=a93jpvqe9jutne9agvqo8ht1r1&topic=1980.0e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index4c4b-2.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=17.0e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index4c4b-2.html.zx¿8h^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÈ P, OKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip8:Ö ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿWed, 11 Mar 2020 01:19:19 GMT0ó°° ®0®P®€§²ð®¾8h^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿt]  FF5 Bugs & Glitches

Author Topic: FF5 Bugs & Glitches  (Read 23831 times)

Jorgur

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FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« on: March 07, 2011, 05:17:22 PM »
I thought the wiki would be the perfect place for this project so I created a page for it.
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Bugs_and_Glitches

This page is free for everyone to edit, so please contribute if you can!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 05:07:12 PM by Jorgur »

Djibriel

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 06:05:04 PM »
    I figured the best way to tackle this as a group is to have a quick list on the first page that lists all the bugs and their status. So I propose the following; I"ll keep this post updated insofar that it should contain all bugs discussed in this topic. All bugs are color-coded as far as their 'status' goes:

Unconfirmed
Cause unknown
Arguably a bug
Full extent of possible effects uncharted

All bugs/glitches that remain in black or obtain that much-coveted status as well-researched, easy-to-understand mistakes in the game could then be given a write-up by whoever feels like it. It sure sounds like an ambitious project, we'll see how far it goes :p

Last updated: 03/13/2011


Out of battle:
  • Desert of the Streaming Sands has no moving overworld tiles FFVA
  • Garula appears where he shouldn't (near Carwen)
  • Hidden out-of-battle timer in Tower of Magic does not stop when in the menu FFVA
  • Dash with the Pirate Ship and Flying Ship (maybe running helps you to better HOIST THE SAILS)
  • Versus Atomos, have Galuf as your lead party member. When Galuf exits your party to mourn Xezat, Galuf's sprite will still represent your party, so you'll have two Galuf's on-screen FFVSNES
  • After Exdeath confronts you for the first time in World 3, he zaps you away from Ghido's cave and after that you find yourself in the Library of the Ancients. Casting Teleport will take you back to the entrance of Ghido's Cave. You can now explore most of the world and its dungeons without Lenna. FFVSNES
  • In World 3, you can park your normal and black chocobo in the middle of the nine-squares forest that houses the Ancient Tree. You can walk out of the forest, and then you can't get back to your chocobo, trapping you and destroying your game forever. FFVSNES

Monster behavior:
  • Famed Mimic Gogo's AI script goes haywire upon aggro FFVA
  • Panthera's intended Stalker-like behavior instead causes it to self-terminate FFVA
  • Lots of bugs that can be caused by the fact that bits are set in-battle with a counter-attack, and these counter-attacks can be prevented by various means. Ramuh, Sekhmet, Archeoaevis, Exdeath all have troubles here. !Rapid Fire's last two hits don't provoke counters, the Monk's Counter ability doesn't provoke counters, casting less than all spells off of your own character doesn't provoke counters, weapon-induced MT magical attacks (Wind Slash katana, Gaia Hammer) don't provoke counters on all but the initial target of the physical attack, the list goes on. Also something with Chaos Cannon, I don't know the specifics.
  • Regen isn't set for Dragon Flower, Dragon Pod, Exdeath, Genji Shield Gilgamesh
  • Monster MP is a complete clusterfuck. Feed a monster with more than 9999 MP an Ether, and it resets to 9999. Give a monster with maximum 10 MP an Ether, and it'll get enough to cast Flash.
  • Ramuh, Sandworm, Catoblepas, Sekhmet, Exdeath (possibly others) have physicals that do not provoke Counters (okay) but also do not remove Sleep/Confuse/Singing (bug)

Attack behavior:
  • Vampire deals (maximum HP - current HP) damage rather than half that FFVA
  • Mix elemental properties (Resist Fire, etc.) and elemental up (Elemental Might) are removed upon equipment change
  • incapable of setting statuses from both 1 and 2 through special technique, only when statuses from 1 are protected against do status ailments from bit 2 appear. Examples: Skull Eater, Gil Turtle.
  • Casting Phoenix without the necessary MP (through !Dualcast, for instance), the firebird is stopped but the revival is not
  • Dualcast allows the caster to choose spells it has no MP for
  • death + encircle = alive with 0 HP. Omega can counter with consecutive Mustard Bomb and Encircle attacks. When a character is struck by both in succession, and if Mustard Bomb killed the character, the character will be alive after the battle with 0 HP.
  • The Chemist's !Recover doesn't cure Petrify, though it should
  • Pre-set Mute and in-battle cast Mute allow different things (Blue magic)
  • Negative Magic Power overflow (underflow?) bug: when giving Berserkers a Thornlet, the game will treat the Berserker as having a massive amount of Magic Power (99?). Fun with the Gaia Hammer and stuff. FFVSNES
  • Knives/Bows/Whips parameter bug. Now in orange because I'd like to re-evaluate the cause and effects of the bug, and the effects of the proposed fix. While the current formula seems wonky, the balance between the weapon groups seems fine to me. From what I understand, the proposed fix would about double their power on a character with equal Strength/Agility, making a Knife way stronger than a Sword. I'm not convinced that was really the intention, but I have no info at this point.
  • Power Drink adds to Goblin Punch, nothing more.
  • Odin's Zantetsuken appears to carve up Heavy targets when released from a Magic Lamp; most fun versus Neo Exdeath
  • !Analyze yields not all results intended
  • !Tame works on all BUT those with a Magic Beast nature, while the inverse is likely the intention FFVA[/color]
  • Kiss of Blessing sets Berserk to the Berserk-immune, shenanigans ensue.
  • !SwdSlap (or !Mineuchi) feels like it should be !Attack + Paralyze, but instead deals normal damage and keeps the target under Confuse/Sleep/Control.
  • Return spell does not reset in-battle timers such as those active in Karnak Castle or Odin FFVAUS
  • Moss Fungus and Gel Fish use the Banish spell that affects self upon !Release
  • Aqua Breath and Big Wave/Tsunamie (!Gaia attacks) are non-elemental rather than Water-elemental
  • You cannot learn Blue magic from attacks used by Released monsters
  • !Mix + !Dualcast = wonky targeting: both !Dualcast will target the second spell's target(s) (fun with Holy + Cura, for instance) FFVSNES
  • !Hide protects you long after you return FFVSNES
  • !Jump protects you long after you return FFVSNES
  • Kill yourself on the first turn of Quick may morph items held FFVSNES
  • Have a Ninja throw an empty slot (and some other stuff) to obtain 00-1 = 255 of a certain handheld item FFVSNES
  • Attack that set Zombie may strike a character who used !Hide FFVSNES
  • Zombie-setting attacks that strike dead Angel Ring characters revive instead
  • All-Berserker team can't run; Chicken Knife's !Flee will stop you from doing damage for the rest of the fight FFVSNES
  • !Controlling a target that is removed from battle (Mover) leaves the !Control uses catatonic

Item behavior:
  • Staff of Light/Judgment Staff deals double damage with !Mug , !Rapid Fire and !Jump
  • Mirage Vest renews Image upon equipment change.
  • Man-Eater deals double damage with !Jump
  • Gaia Bell is deals damage like a Long Reach Axe
  • Rune Chime works like other Rune Weapons
  • Rune Bow deals no damage, one-handed, randomly sets Silence...?
  • Brave Blade/Chicken Knife's Goblin Punch remains 255/0 even when listed Battle Power changes
  • Staff can be double-gripped
  • Multiple Wonder Wands use a single byte to keep track to which spells to use next

Event behavior:
  • Galuf's ghost in Sealed Castle; when you neglect to bring Galuf to the Sealed Castle, he'll talk when you waltz into the weapon chamber with Krile.
  • Lenna's calling spirit in Surgate Castle; go to Surgate when Lenna is in the Rift, and she'll still appear to get a line.
  • Gilgamesh may not appear versus Necrophobe even when all (known) criteria have been met (unconfirmed)

Miscellaneous:
  • Extra MP is lost after switching jobs and reequipping magic abilities FFVA
  • Blue Mage Bartz has messed up graphics when attacking with his left hand
  • Disrupt the Werewolves' ceremony by blocking their path; they'll go crazy
  • You can exit the slopes and walk on the air via a specific tile on Northern Mountain FFVSNES
  • Walk through walls in the Pyramid FFVSNES
  • !Hide from Reflective Zombie teammates, win all battles rather than run FFVSNES
[/list]
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 05:08:22 AM by Jorgur »
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 07:35:44 PM »
- Garula appears where he shouldn't (near Carwen)
The reason is that world map battle formations are arranged in a 8x8 grid & the square touches the border of Carwen. It can be shown on my editor...

- Monster MP is a complete clusterfuck. Feed a monster with more than 9999 MP an Ether, and it resets to 9999. Give a monster with maximum 10 MP an Ether, and it'll get enough to cast Flash.
The reason is that EVERY monster has a fixed maximum Mp value of 9999.

- Casting Phoenix without the necessary MP (through !Dualcast, for instance), the firebird is stopped but the revival is not
IIRC, that particular magic is compounded of 2 spells, one of them costs 99 while the other cost 0 & that's why the revival is casted even if you don't have enough Mp...
Using Dualcast itself should be considered a bug since it allows you to choose a magic even when you only have enough magic for the first spell & not for the second. IIRC, when you mimic the Dualcast, you can then use both spells, even though you couldn't the first time. This is useful when playing a LLG :P

- Blue Mage Bartz has messed up graphics when attacking, best viewed with Barehanded.
To be more accurate, is when he uses his left hand to attack. His sprite is wrong...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 07:54:50 PM »
- Observe

It was supposed to report MP IIRC, in addition to HP/weakness.

Quote
- MP bug

Switching classes while @ full MP would not retain full MP if the class increased the Magic Power of the character (like Knight->Summoner).

Quote
- timer?

2 different types:
1) There's a hidden timer at work when you must dual fight the bosses at the Tower of Power+Magic. It's supposed to be paused while in the menu, but in FF5A, the timer keeps going... so by the time you are ready, exiting the menu will cause game over.
2) Reset/Return doesn't reset the timer to when you started the battle. This is only applicable to FF5A US... FF5A Euro has it fixed. I assume the Jap version has two revisions.

Quote
Unfinished
- Swdslap

IIRC, it ignores the regular rules of a physical attack (like knocking a confused target to normal... kinda like FF4's Aim actually).

Out of battle:
- Desert of the Streaming Sands has no moving overworld tiles FFVA

It was mentioned somewhere it was swapped with other tiles... hence the issue.

Quote
- Garula appears where he shouldn't (near Carwen)

Seriously? Must be a tile battle location issue...

Quote
Monster behavior:
- Famed Mimic Gogo's AI script goes haywire upon aggro FFVA

I don't remember that happening... but that's probably because I do the standard way (it is interesting when you try to go after him anyways).


Quote
- Panthera's intended Stalker-like behavior instead causes it to self-terminate FFVA

I'm trying to recall which battle this is...

Quote
- Lots of bugs that can be caused by the fact that bits are set in-battle with a counter-attack, and these counter-attacks can be prevented by various means. Ramuh, Sekhmet, Archeoaevis, Exdeath all have troubles here. !Rapid Fire's last two hits don't provoke counters, the Monk's Counter ability doesn't provoke counters, casting less than all spells off of your own character doesn't provoke counters, weapon-induced MT magical attacks (Wind Slash katana, Gaia Hammer) don't provoke counters on all but the initial target of the physical attack, the list goes on. Also something with Chaos Cannon, I don't know the specifics.

I think FF6 addresses this better than FF5 (which was also an improvement when it comes to FF4) as counters are concerned. The evolution of the battle engine is notable. The counter issue with !Rapid Fire has to do with "poor enough" coding to simply deal with two-weapons (Ninja ability).


Quote
- Regen isn't set for Dragon Flower, Dragon Pod, Exdeath, Genji Shield Gilgamesh

I don't recall any monster having that attribute... so if it was meant to be there, it's an oversight.

Quote
- Monster MP is a complete clusterfuck. Feed a monster with more than 9999 MP an Ether, and it resets to 9999. Give a monster with maximum 10 MP an Ether, and it'll get enough to cast Flash.

I'd swear that the MP a monster had was almost always random. One time it would work.. other times it wouldn't... and from the same monster (the Forest of Mua monsters seemed to exhibit that the most).


Quote
Attack behavior:
- Vampire deals (maximum HP - current HP) damage rather than half that FFVA

I think it's a welcomed change... although it works against ???? so I guess that depends on how you feel about it.

Quote
- Mix elemental properties (Resist Fire, etc.) and elemental up (Elemental Might) are removed upon equipment change

I believe that was always some sort of issue when the equip via item screen in all the SNES FF versions... probably less so in FF6. A fun bug to exploit in FF4 was the Avenger Sword temporarily having the same properties of the previously equipped weapon (like the Blood Sword or the Ragnarok) when swapping weapons in battle.

Quote
- Casting Phoenix without the necessary MP (through !Dualcast, for instance), the firebird is stopped but the revival is not

IIRC, the best part about Phoenix was full maxMP on revival.

Quote
- The Chemist's !Recover doesn't cure Petrify, though it should

Really? Hmmm...

Quote
- Pre-set Mute and in-battle cast Mute allow different things (Blue magic)

Blue (Monster) Magic seemed to always follow a different set of rules in FF5 (like FF4) so I guess that has changed in FF6.

Quote
- Negative Magic Power overflow (underflow?) bug: when giving Berserkers a Thornlet, the game will treat the Berserker as having a massive amount of Magic Power (99?). Fun with the Gaia Hammer and stuff. FFVSNES

Nice. Titan would be proud.

Quote
Item behavior:
- Staff of Light/Judgment Staff deals double damage with !Mug

Is that against a Holy elemental enemy? Just checking.

Quote
- Mirage Vest renews Image upon equipment change.

Yea... explained earlier.

Quote
- A lot of weapons have strange side-effects because of lazy or strange coding. Man-Eater deals double damage with !Jump, two out of four Bells function like Long Reach Axes (Gaia Bell) or Front Row-only Rune weapons (Rune Bell).

Well... the Rune Bell is actually a very awesome weapon (Tinkerbell is better, like the Chicken Knife, but way more inconsistent). The critical hit is required to keep it on par with all the better swords+knives of the game... including the Chicken Knife+Ragnarok/Apocalypse.
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Djibriel

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 05:00:52 AM »
This will be a long long post!

Garula walks near Carwen:
the World Map is divided in 64 squares, and since a bit of Carwen land occupies a square that's mostly near the Tower of Walse, it could not be stopped that he appears there. Cause known! I personally feel that the Carwen land there has no (narrative) purpose. They shouldn't have put it there if it caused NPC-ish monsters to transgress their boundaries like that. Does anybody feel it's not a bug? Im remember there being some discussion about Garula and if it was a single creatures or a race of Garulas; thos with the second theory might feel it's perfectly fine Garula walks near Carwen.

Monster's MP overflow:
It would have been fine if monsters had an MP cap of 9999, but according to their stat block they should have more. What happens if you use a Dark Ether versus, say, Omega on the first turn? Does it deal (75% of 60700) MP damage or (75% of 9999) MP damage?

Famed Mimic Gogo:
Almost all players will do one of two things; snooze until Gogo throws in the towel, or buff to da limit and then take down Gogo with one massive !Rapid Fire. This will not trigger the bug. You must do it wrong; attack him three times so that he starts his 'uncultured boors' speech, and he'll throw all kinds of weird in-battle text at you, eventually freezing the fight on most occassions.

Pantera:
From the Island Shrine chest, two foes may jump: Covert and Pantera. Pantera is a Bandersnatch upgrade that should pull a Stalker-like attack on you on its first turn. Two more Pantera's should appear, the text "Illusion!" should appear and then, you know, it's a guessing game. Pantera just dies when "Illusion!" is used, though.

Vampire:
It's an AWESOME spell now. It just heals you back to full and deals respectable damage in the process, damage that is non-elemental and barrier-piercing and everything. But a bug is a bug...

Staves + !Mug:
No. You'd think that the damage output would be erratic, or elemental properties would come into play, but it's not the case. I'm telling ya, those two staves deal double damage with !Mug. Other Staves (Sage's Staff, for instance) doesn't do this, nor do other magical attacks + !Mug (such as the Blood Sword).  :edit: They also deal double damage with !Jump.

Bells:
The Diamond Bell and Tinklebell deal damage based off of the caster's Agility and Magic Power, they're Back Row OK and don't function when Mute is in effect. Also, they're Song attacks, so they're listed as sound-based weapons. So that's what Bells are, you deal damage with them from a distance, because you're (and they're) MAGIC! The other two bells work off Strength, are not Back Row OK and work in Mute, so apparently you whack monsters with them, even though they're still Song weapons. The Rune Chime is a Rune weapon because all Rune-based weapons are the same; it's just lazy they didn't make a Rune Chime-unique routine. Why the Gaia Bell is a Long Reach Axe-type weapon, I don't know. Bells are attack type 39, LRA are 3A, maybe it was a simple typo?

Dunno why they felt the Rune Chime needed to be a MP-drived critical hit machine, its real value is the elemental boosts anyway.


« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 10:57:38 AM by Djibriel »
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Djibriel

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 05:41:02 AM »
All new bugs here listed also listed in my first post

- Dash with the Pirate Ship and Flying Ship (maybe running helps you to better HOIST THE SAILS)
- Moss Fungus and Gel Fish use the Banish spell that affects self upon !Release
- You cannot learn Blue magic from attacks used by Released monsters

- Disrupt the Werewolves' ceremony by blocking their path; they'll go crazy
- Versus Atomos, have Galuf as your lead party member. When Galuf exits your party to mourn Xezat, Galuf's sprite will still represent your party, so you'll have two Galuf's on-screen FFVSNES


Thanks to ebmid2's walkthrough on GameFAQs, the following list. I've not personally seen these bugs yet, so I can't comment on them too much.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/final_fantasy_v_k.txt

- !Mix + !Dualcast = wonky targeting: both !Dualcast will target the second spell's target(s) (fun with Holy + Cura, for instance) FFVSNES
- After Exdeath confronts you for the first time in World 3, he zaps you away from Ghido's cave and after that you find yourself in the Library of the Ancients. Casting Teleport will take you back to the entrance of Ghido's Cave. You can now explore most of the world and its dungeons without Lenna. FFVSNES
- In World 3, you can park your normal and black chocobo in the middle of the nine-squares forest that houses the Ancient Tree. You can walk out of the forest, and then you can't get back to your chocobo, trapping you and destroying your game forever. FFVSNES
- !Hide protects you long after you return FFVSNES
- !Jump protects you long after you return FFVSNES
- Kill yourself on the first turn of Quick may morph items held FFVSNES
- Have a Ninja throw an empty slot (and some other stuff) to obtain 00-1 = 255 of a certain handheld item FFVSNES
- Attack that set Zombie may strike a character who used !Hide FFVSNES
- Zombie-setting attacks that strike dead Angel Ring characters revive instead
- All-Berserker team can't run; Chicken Knife's !Flee will stop you from doing damage for the rest of the fight FFVSNES
- You can exit the slopes and walk on the air via a specific tile on Northern Mountain FFVSNES
- Walk through walls in the Pyramid FFVSNES
- Walk through walls in Istory Falls FFVSNES
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 05:49:20 AM by Djibriel »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2011, 12:42:32 PM »
    • Panthera's intended Stalker-like behavior instead causes it to self-terminate FFVA

    Does this happen to both FF5A versions? Chances are the Euro version would have corrected that...

    Quote
    • Knives/Bows/Whips parameter bug. Now in orange because I'd like to re-evaluate the cause and effects of the bug, and the effects of the proposed fix. While the current formula seems wonky, the balance between the weapon groups seems fine to me. From what I understand, the proposed fix would about double their power on a character with equal Strength/Agility, making a Knife way stronger than a Sword. I'm not convinced that was really the intention, but I have no info at this point.

    I get the feeling knives should be weaker than a sword if you're facing targets with low defense (like some sort of mage-type monster vs something like the Golems). Knives would then rule because of !Rapid Fire, which seems to make sense to me I guess.

    Quote
    • Odin's Zantetsuken appears to carve up Heavy targets when released from a Magic Lamp; most fun versus Neo Exdeath

    It might be running through some different code or taking the item's properties (ignore heavies since most of the summons should work outright) or some clear oversight.

    Quote
    • Aqua Breath and Big Wave/Tsunamie (!Gaia attacks) are non-elemental rather than Water-elemental

    Given that Aqua Breath works on a different formula (Desert monster killer), I can forgive that. Big Wave/Tsunami may be a holdover from FF4 in a sense... so Leviathan ends up being the natural water elemental... I think?

    Quote
    • !Hide protects you long after you return FFVSNES
    • !Jump protects you long after you return FFVSNES

    Sounds like some bad targeting coding... has happened a bit in variations (FF4 had a few when fighting Kain, FF6 has the jumping frogs and Super Ball I think).

    Quote
    • Kill yourself on the first turn of Quick may morph items held FFVSNES

    Never seen this, but sounds like fun. If we can get the Bloody Shield this way, it would be really cool.

    Quote
    • Have a Ninja throw an empty slot (and some other stuff) to obtain 00-1 = 255 of a certain handheld item FFVSNES

    I'm not sure how you'd reproduce that.

    Quote
    • Attack that set Zombie may strike a character who used !Hide FFVSNES
    • Zombie-setting attacks that strike dead Angel Ring characters revive instead

    The latter sounds like a feature, not a bug. ;)

    Quote
    • All-Berserker team can't run; Chicken Knife's !Flee will stop you from doing damage for the rest of the fight FFVSNES

    My guess is that you are never meant to run away if everyone has some sort of uncontrollable status (Charm, Sleep, Paralysis, Berserk), so the execution of !Flee must screw with that behavior.

    Quote
    • Rune Chime works like other Rune Weapons

    But... I like it!

    Quote
    • Rune Bow deals no damage, one-handed, randomly sets Silence...?

    I think it's intentional, but I'm trying to recall what circumstances you would want to use it... it smell of the Tower of Magic useful....

    Quote
    • Brave Blade/Chicken Knife's Goblin Punch remains 255/0 even when listed Battle Power changes

    I guess that's some oversight, but considering it is trying to reference the base number.. not the final number, it makes sense.

    Quote
    • Staff can be double-gripped

    One aspect of dbl gripping is using the Knight's STR stat (but why do that when you can go barehanded?) :P

    Quote
    • Multiple Wonder Wands use a single byte to keep track to which spells to use next

    Well, if one allowed many Cursed Shields in FF6, you wouldn't be wanting easy curse dispelling right? :P

    Quote
    • Gilgamesh may not appear versus Necrophobe even when all (known) criteria have been met (unconfirmed)

    My only guess is if you're tampering with the Berserk/counter code, you might must event data bits being set. That would explain that brother that haunts the innards of the Temple of Sands or whatever... that wouldn't go away until he's "officially" killed.

    Quote
    • Disrupt the Werewolves' ceremony by blocking their path; they'll go crazy

    Don't stop them from praying for you!
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    samurai goroh

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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #7 on: March 13, 2011, 07:45:10 PM »
    Garula walks near Carwen:
    the World Map is divided in 64 squares, and since a bit of Carwen land occupies a square that's mostly near the Tower of Walse, it could not be stopped that he appears there. Cause known! I personally feel that the Carwen land there has no (narrative) purpose. They shouldn't have put it there if it caused NPC-ish monsters to transgress their boundaries like that. Does anybody feel it's not a bug? I remember there being some discussion about Garula and if it was a single creatures or a race of Garulas; thos with the second theory might feel it's perfectly fine Garula walks near Carwen.
    I kind of remember that an NPC mentioned he lived north of Walse Town. Carwen is surrounded by mountains, so you can argue that the Galuras shouldn't be there. You can use this on a LLG when you want to learn some abilities early on, so I do believe it was an oversight of the programmers, in other words, a bug.

    Monster's MP overflow:
    It would have been fine if monsters had an MP cap of 9999, but according to their stat block they should have more. What happens if you use a Dark Ether versus, say, Omega on the first turn? Does it deal (75% of 60700) MP damage or (75% of 9999) MP damage?
    Yea, the current MP of a monster can be greater than the max MP, just like when you use cheats yourself XD. I don't know about the Dark Ether, but using an Ether (or Elixir) when a monster has +9999 MP, it will set the MP to 9999. I think the max damage is capped to 9999, so I would believe that the Dark Ether would deal up to 9999 if the estimated damage gets over that...


    BTW, I remember a getting a bug that has never been mentioned before. It has been a lot of time since I did it, but it was when you're controlling a Mover & they change formation (instead of running away). IIRC, your character will be unable to anything, unless you make him loose control (e.g. attacking him) (he's still controlling a monster that is no longer there)

    Oh, not a bug per se, but more like an oversight is that the enemy Skull Eater can't be captured in order to release it... (Since it only has 1 Hp)
    « Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 07:50:31 PM by samurai goroh »
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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 07:05:42 AM »
    - (Much) more info on all of ebmid's listed bugs can be found in his walkthrough I linked.

    - Dunno about Panthera in the EU release. I have no info on the Euro version whatsoever, that may be a fun game to pick up when the 1.1 battle strategy guide is done and the bugs 'nd glitches project is a little more advanced.

    - Since Odin normally won't appear unless all available targets are affected, the programmers were free to implement a full-screen effect to display the slicing and dicing. With the Magic Lamp however, you can summon Odin versus a screen full of Heavy targets (he won't appear) and a mix of Heavy and non-Heavy targets. An example is Neo Exdeath, whose bottom-left target is a lightweight. Odin comes to kill that target only, but because the animation calls for a full-screen effect, it will seem that all targets are killed even though they return a second later. The mistake here is one of combination. They should either have left Odin out of the Magic Lamp, have him perform Gungnir only or they should've coded a sprite-by-sprite animation for Zantetsuken.

    - Bah, I still say the Rune Chime needs its own formula, but lumping together of stuff can hardly be called a bug. It's just so widely illogical, I'm tempted to include a chapter "Batshit insane" in the Bugs 'nd Glitches document just to list those things we can't in good conscious call a bug, but want to anyway :p

    - I see your point about the Cursed Shld and the Wonder Wand, but there is an important difference. In a normal game, you can obtain one Cursed Shld maximum. But since the Wonder Wand can be stolen from Exdeath and equipped mid-battle, you can obtain two (in the SFamicom and PSX games) or 99 (in the GBA games). Either limit the Wonder Wand to a single weapon, or somehow keep track of the maximum of 8 Wonder Wands in use.

    - I seem to remember someone saying FFIII's terrain magic often was non-elemental despite elemental appearance, so through consistency, you could argue it's not a bug. I have no patience for NES games (except Battletoads) so I can't comment.

    - Added the !Control + run behavior in the list, unconfirmed as of yet

    - A very popular feature is the fact that !Hide + Zombie = win. When one character Hides and the rest is a Zombie, the fight will just go on. This can be used to your advantage via Wall Rings and weapons that randomly cast spells to win all battles. When one characters Hides and the other three are petrified or knocked out, the game will have you escape. I strongly feel that this should have been the case with Zombies as well, since Zombies count as 'dead' just like KO and Stone, and it's a filthy way of winning battles. Thoughts?

    -  I'm also including the fact that the quasi-physicals used by Ramuh, Sandworm, Exdeath, etc. do not remove Sleep/Confuse/Singing is a bug. My theory is that they wanted to create a physical attack that did not allow counters, and the rest was just unintended. !Sing is strategically superior versus Exdeath already since he can be so easily walled before he gets into the nasty stuff and the stat boosts carry over to the Neo Exdeath fight. Now, Exdeath is even incapable of smacking a Singing character back to reality like a measly Nut Eater does.
    « Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 07:22:18 AM by Djibriel »
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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2011, 11:43:46 AM »
    - Dunno about Panthera in the EU release. I have no info on the Euro version whatsoever, that may be a fun game to pick up when the 1.1 battle strategy guide is done and the bugs 'nd glitches project is a little more advanced.

    I've looked into this... there's only a few possible explanations that I can gather.

    1) The formation used for this battle is not consistent with the original. Some formations are set up for a special purpose (generally hard-coded), so whatever the formation the monster is using is not from the original set. Of course... it's just possible that the current formation didn't have that special coding set...

    2) If I'm reading the algo doc correctly... it may or may not be a typo, but the code that is used to check if the original/real monster is dead is "different" than the one the Stalker uses... but that doesn't exactly explain the lack of use of "Escape" in the battle script.

    3) The most logical conclusion to me for that code being executed is that the monster is running the Stalker code bit check instead of its own. This could easily be overlooked in testing (since it is not a common formation and found once in a run). This is hinted by the monster's death (No Clue) which the original Stalker clones execute upon the real one's death. The problem is that the code is probably "simplistic" that the check is "if not real Stalker, kill self" and that the monsters (including the real Pantera) follows in that execution of that script.


    Quote
    - Bah, I still say the Rune Chime needs its own formula, but lumping together of stuff can hardly be called a bug. It's just so widely illogical, I'm tempted to include a chapter "Batshit insane" in the Bugs 'nd Glitches document just to list those things we can't in good conscious call a bug, but want to anyway :p

    I guess, but the Rune weaponry is underrated... but on the other hand, if the Rune Edge had the Swordblade compatibility... it would really really rock hard.

    Quote
    - I see your point about the Cursed Shld and the Wonder Wand, but there is an important difference. In a normal game, you can obtain one Cursed Shld maximum. But since the Wonder Wand can be stolen from Exdeath and equipped mid-battle, you can obtain two (in the SFamicom and PSX games) or 99 (in the GBA games). Either limit the Wonder Wand to a single weapon, or somehow keep track of the maximum of 8 Wonder Wands in use.

    I consider the Wonder Wand pretty niche and doesn't quite deserve that much attention.... this is the Wonder Wand after all.

    Quote
    - Added the !Control + run behavior in the list, unconfirmed as of yet

    I believe the Mover thing has happened to me once (I like Control, but the FF6 version is far more fun).

    Quote
    - A very popular feature is the fact that !Hide + Zombie = win. When one character Hides and the rest is a Zombie, the fight will just go on. This can be used to your advantage via Wall Rings and weapons that randomly cast spells to win all battles. When one characters Hides and the other three are petrified or knocked out, the game will have you escape. I strongly feel that this should have been the case with Zombies as well, since Zombies count as 'dead' just like KO and Stone, and it's a filthy way of winning battles. Thoughts?

    Zombies are technically "dead" for head counting purposes, but they are still targets on the field of play (for attacking themselves and others) so unless the cowardly one would like his/her brains being extracted... I think it's fine as is. Zombies want braaaaains!

    Quote
    -  I'm also including the fact that the quasi-physicals used by Ramuh, Sandworm, Exdeath, etc. do not remove Sleep/Confuse/Singing is a bug. My theory is that they wanted to create a physical attack that did not allow counters, and the rest was just unintended. !Sing is strategically superior versus Exdeath already since he can be so easily walled before he gets into the nasty stuff and the stat boosts carry over to the Neo Exdeath fight. Now, Exdeath is even incapable of smacking a Singing character back to reality like a measly Nut Eater does.

    It's a quick fix for something that was inherently broken in the original... but there are better ways to code the damned thing that didn't have to come to this... I would say.
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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2011, 01:08:12 PM »
    I was wondering a few things with the bug list you have Djibriel:

    For the unconfirmed bugs, would only you mark them as confirmed?
    If that's the case, would reproducing the bug with the "movie" (like doing a TAS) be helpful? (I'd reproduced most of them before, so I know they do work)

    Are you planning to include bugs for the PS version?
    I've only tried a couple of the SNES ones & they are reproducible & the only bug I know is exclusive of the PS is the one with the Treasure %, where instead of displaying 100%, it'll display 099% (there are 3 digits instead of 1 or 2, so 99% <> 099%). I have some screenshots of this bug.

    Would you consider opening the menu, when you're in the world map, in order to avoid random battles a bug? I use it on the TAS I did & I think on the dual one too
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    There's no mention on the "classic" bug for the GBA version, the quick save that resets the seed of the RNG & lets you fight all types of formations relative quickly. (The part of resetting the steps for avoiding random battles may or may not be cataloged as a bug)
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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #11 on: March 14, 2011, 01:10:50 PM »
    If you can exploit a "feature", it's a bug.  :tongue:
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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #12 on: March 14, 2011, 02:51:28 PM »
    - I guess it's important to note that the Pantera battle works fine in the SFamicom game

    - I agree the Wonder Wand is an oft-overlooked feature, but since it's there it should work.

    - When one or more character(s) Hide(s) and the remaining party is a Zombie, the entire battlefield is unable to fight. It's not like !Jump where the character comes down regardless, a character can remain !Hidden for as long as he or she wants. In FFVI, there are no free run-aways; when one character is gone (via Sneeze/Snort or the like) and the rest is a Zombie, it's Game Over. So I still say bug.

    Whenever someone here says; I've seen this bug, let's roll, I take that as a confirmed. We're not in this business to lie. We're in this business for the ladiez. I mean the truth. If a video is found that'd be nice, but I'd still try to reproduce it myself.

    About the overworld in-and-out menu trick to keep away the random encounters: I wouldn't call it a bug, but it's certainly sloppy RNG coding that the player can exploit. It's not like FFVI's Slot command, where the player needs in-depth knowledge available only through direct code viewing to work the system; any fool can observe that Quicksaving leads to a fixed random monster encounter appearance.

    A similair thing is how monsters will never appear when you've just entered a room in a dungeon. I don't know how FFV works out when a battle is triggered, but it seems to be (partly) based on how many steps you've taken in a certain room. You could tackle 500 small rooms in a row and never get a random encounter just because you're entering and exiting all the time.

    Another form of sloppy coding that's not really a bug but still has major effects on the battlefield is that FFV loves to start at static ATB values. When you set Berserk or Confuse in-battle, the ATB is reset to that character's start value. This is also why you can fight such as fights as Archeoaevis and the Pages in the Library and never have them use any move; every time they call a new monster, that monster starts with a fresh ATB bar that has the entire way to go. Since you're already half-way with most characters, you'll always outspeed them and can destroy that form before it takes a move. The next creature befalls the same fate. Stuff like that isn't a bug, I think, when looking at the definition of the world, but it's certainly poorly executed.

    I'm a big fan of dropping the semantic nonsense about 'bug' and 'glitch' and just talk about intended behavior and unintended behavior. The Quicksave "feature" has no faulty coding and isn't a bug, but since it allows the player to seek out certain very rare monster formations every other fight, I'd say it's unintended behavior and thus worthy of being listed.

    As for the document itself, I feel a good example of how it (hopefully) can turn out is like Master ZED's Bugs 'nd Glitches guide for FFVI. It became a fairly big document, and the weigth of it eventually discouraged ZED from updating the thing when that faithful One-Hundred-Something Bugs topic was posted on mnrogar's forum back in the day.
    With that document I mind, I think it's best that we set up some sort of WIP document that Jorgur initiated in the first post of the forum (good idea!). Seeing the size of ZED's document however, I think it's suboptimal to embed it in the first post of this topic. I'd personally rather see a quick free wiki we all have access to, or a Google document or something. Since I've never done anything like that, any input or experience on the subject is welcome.

    Here's ZED's example:
    http://masterzed.cavesofnarshe.com/GameDocs/ff3bug.txt

    Jorgur asks about the scope of the document, let me post my thoughts:
    Bugs and stuff is fun for a tremendous amount of players. Some can be used for gain (Vampire bug, item duplication, stuff like that), others are better avoided (game freezing bugs, for instance) and most others deal with tremendously niche scenarios that are just fun to read about. While the majority of the posters on this forum are code monkeys, not everybody is. I think that showing were the code makes a mistake and listing possible patches or CodeBreaker fixes will alienate a large catagory of casual readers. Again, I think ZED's got a good vibe going on when he describes the cause in such a way my friends would understand the problem and its cause.
    « Last Edit: March 14, 2011, 02:59:29 PM by Djibriel »
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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #13 on: March 14, 2011, 03:16:17 PM »
    - I guess it's important to note that the Pantera battle works fine in the SFamicom game

    Yea... I did the tests to make a proper comparison. Both US+Euro versions of FF5A exhibit the same bug. I'm just convinced the monster is using the Stalker code to execute... which is why that monster is a complete fail.

    Quote
    - When one or more character(s) Hide(s) and the remaining party is a Zombie, the entire battlefield is unable to fight. It's not like !Jump where the character comes down regardless, a character can remain !Hidden for as long as he or she wants. In FFVI, there are no free run-aways; when one character is gone (via Sneeze/Snort or the like) and the rest is a Zombie, it's Game Over. So I still say bug.

    Well... you have to remember that is a command that has been partly inherited from FF4... and Hide has many hidden bugs that would make one rage. For instance, you can cast Sylph in FF4A and a hidden Edward would receive healing... I mean.. there are states where someone has forgotten to test (there's also the Psycho Edward bug, but that's for another day).

    Quote
    Whenever someone here says; I've seen this bug, let's roll, I take that as a confirmed. We're not in this business to lie. We're in this business for the ladiez. I mean the truth. If a video is found that'd be nice, but I'd still try to reproduce it myself.

    Yea... although finding all the bugs can drive a person mad... mad I say!

    Quote
    Another form of sloppy coding that's not really a bug but still has major effects on the battlefield is that FFV loves to start at static ATB values. When you set Berserk or Confuse in-battle, the ATB is reset to that character's start value. This is also why you can fight such as fights as Archeoaevis and the Pages in the Library and never have them use any move; every time they call a new monster, that monster starts with a fresh ATB bar that has the entire way to go. Since you're already half-way with most characters, you'll always outspeed them and can destroy that form before it takes a move. The next creature befalls the same fate. Stuff like that isn't a bug, I think, when looking at the definition of the world, but it's certainly poorly executed.

    It's worth noticing these things in the progression of a battle engine between the series... and wondering WTF were they smoking sometimes. Of course partly some of these things were not totally finished....

    Quote
    As for the document itself, I feel a good example of how it (hopefully) can turn out is like Master ZED's Bugs 'nd Glitches guide for FFVI. It became a fairly big document, and the weigth of it eventually discouraged ZED from updating the thing when that faithful One-Hundred-Something Bugs topic was posted on mnrogar's forum back in the day.
    With that document I mind, I think it's best that we set up some sort of WIP document that Jorgur initiated in the first post of the forum (good idea!). Seeing the size of ZED's document however, I think it's suboptimal to embed it in the first post of this topic. I'd personally rather see a quick free wiki we all have access to, or a Google document or something. Since I've never done anything like that, any input or experience on the subject is welcome.

    Here's ZED's example:
    http://masterzed.cavesofnarshe.com/GameDocs/ff3bug.txt

    Jorgur asks about the scope of the document, let me post my thoughts:
    Bugs and stuff is fun for a tremendous amount of players. Some can be used for gain (Vampire bug, item duplication, stuff like that), others are better avoided (game freezing bugs, for instance) and most others deal with tremendously niche scenarios that are just fun to read about. While the majority of the posters on this forum are code monkeys, not everybody is. I think that showing were the code makes a mistake and listing possible patches or CodeBreaker fixes will alienate a large catagory of casual readers. Again, I think ZED's got a good vibe going on when he describes the cause in such a way my friends would understand the problem and its cause.

    Writing the document is always more painful than reading the intricacies. I'm sure someone will get around to writing it up in a doc. A wiki is only prone to the users that "think" they know what's going on.
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    Djibriel

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    Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
    « Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 05:40:35 AM »
    I pictured a somewhat closed wiki that only the active posters in this thread could access; if one of us goofed, the others could simply overrule him or her.

    In other news, Judgment Staff/Staff of Light also deals double damage with !Jump and gets no damage penalty from !Rapid Fire :p

    I fooled around with weapon-related oddities yesterday. I was most surprisd that the Twin Lance dealt double damage with !Jump it's a lance, it makes sense, but it's otherwise such a unique weapon I hadn't expected it to work LIKE a Lance with !Jump. It useless since !Jump removes it's double damage feature so you don't win any damage with !Jump, but still fun.

    The Blood Sword is such a strange weapon. It's a magic spell through the !Fight command; it's power isn't reduced by !Rapid Fire, nor is it increased by Sword Dance or !Focus. I half-expected the Blood Sword to share the Staves affinity for double-damage sources (since they are both magical damage routines), but 'tis not the case.
    « Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 09:44:56 AM by Djibriel »
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