Topic: Gauging interest on MP=HP

[JCE3000GT]

So I had an idea several years ago that still sort of haunts me.  On one of my dozen or so FF2us/FF4 hacks I had planned out to remove the MP stat and have spells actually use HP instead.  I didn't do any research on it at the time but I was thinking it could be possible. 

Would anyone else be interested in something like this? 

[chillyfeez]

Well, that certainly would solve the whole issue of expanding HP to 24 bits... It would also help explain why Meteo kills Tellah.
Sure, yeah, I think something like that has potential!

So mages, then, would have a max HP closer to fighters, but it drains more quickly the more spells they cast. I think it adds an interesting dimension to gameplay, actually...

[Grimoire LD]

So I had an idea several years ago that still sort of haunts me.  On one of my dozen or so FF2us/FF4 hacks I had planned out to remove the MP stat and have spells actually use HP instead.  I didn't do any research on it at the time but I was thinking it could be possible. 

Would anyone else be interested in something like this?

This is an interesting idea, but it should likely be done in a Routine basis so MP spells would still exist for magic users and more "physical" special attacks could consume HP for the physical attackers, (I think the older Megami games had a system like that) maybe have a cutoff point in the spell list to delineate the two?

But for just all mages using HP to cast spells.. the run-up of 99 (or 255) is still far too low unless it were multiplied by perhaps by an eighth of the current character's Wisdom/Will so that the stronger it becomes, the more it costs?

For instance a Rydia casting Bahamut in this default set up would cost 60 HP, with a multiplier system in effect say she has 60 Wisdom, 60/8= 7 (rounded_ so it would cost Rydia 360 HP to cast Bahamut at 60 Wisdom, which seems like a fair trade off, and if she were to cast Meteo at 99 Wisdom it would be 99 x 12 = 1188 which is a very fair amount of HP for a spell that will be dealing 16,383 damage.

 Though you give me an interesting idea Chillyfeez... Recall could be turned into a command called "Offer" that would still use the basic choose a random spell setup  but would cost x4 HP of the original cost of the spell.

[JCE3000GT]

Well, that certainly would solve the whole issue of expanding HP to 24 bits... It would also help explain why Meteo kills Tellah.
Sure, yeah, I think something like that has potential!

So mages, then, would have a max HP closer to fighters, but it drains more quickly the more spells they cast. I think it adds an interesting dimension to gameplay, actually...

I agree.  If you gave the magic users have more HP, but not too much more, you could add a whole new element.  You'd probably have to slightly increase the physical attack and or weapon power for those magic users to give an alternative option.

So I had an idea several years ago that still sort of haunts me.  On one of my dozen or so FF2us/FF4 hacks I had planned out to remove the MP stat and have spells actually use HP instead.  I didn't do any research on it at the time but I was thinking it could be possible. 

Would anyone else be interested in something like this?

This is an interesting idea, but it should likely be done in a Routine basis so MP spells would still exist for magic users and more "physical" special attacks could consume HP for the physical attackers, (I think the older Megami games had a system like that) maybe have a cutoff point in the spell list to delineate the two?

But for just all mages using HP to cast spells.. the run-up of 99 (or 255) is still far too low unless it were multiplied by perhaps by an eighth of the current character's Wisdom/Will so that the stronger it becomes, the more it costs?

For instance a Rydia casting Bahamut in this default set up would cost 60 HP, with a multiplier system in effect say she has 60 Wisdom, 60/8= 7 (rounded_ so it would cost Rydia 360 HP to cast Bahamut at 60 Wisdom, which seems like a fair trade off, and if she were to cast Meteo at 99 Wisdom it would be 99 x 12 = 1188 which is a very fair amount of HP for a spell that will be dealing 16,383 damage.

 Though you give me an interesting idea Chillyfeez... Recall could be turned into a command called "Offer" that would still use the basic choose a random spell setup  but would cost x4 HP of the original cost of the spell.

A good formula would need to be created I believe similar or so to your idea above.  I suppose you would have an option to make magic weaker to not drain too much OR actually make some spells stronger that are usually abused/exploited.  Stop or Stone are two such examples. 

[LordGarmonde]

A good formula would need to be created I believe similar or so to your idea above.  I suppose you would have an option to make magic weaker to not drain too much OR actually make some spells stronger that are usually abused/exploited.  Stop or Stone are two such examples.

There's always a way to create a formula.    But it is a pretty neat idea; certainly interesting.

I was looking through various bugs/glitches in the series and noticed this under FF4's entry on the page detailing the overflow glitch:

"In the game's SNES and PlayStation versions, when Cure4 heals more than 16,383 damage on an enemy, the spell will heal the MP of that target instead."  - http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Overflow_Glitch

I recognize that 16,383 = ([65536/4] - 1) but where does the 4 come from? It's probably obvious, but I'm just not seeing it at the moment.

[chillyfeez]

When damage/healing to the target is calculated, the top bit is used as a flag to set "healing" (as opposed to damage), and the second most significant bit is used to signify "MP change" (as opposed to HP change). Thus, the highest HP or MP delta that can result from any spell or item usage is 16383 (00111111 11111111, with the other two bits used to signify healing and MP).
Because Cure4 used on a single target seeks to heal all damage instead of undergoing the normal damage/healing calculation, it is possible that it might attempt to heal more than 16383 if used on an enemy that is depleted by a higher value. Doing so would then set the MP bit.

[LordGarmonde]

Oh I see; that's very good to know. Thanks chillyfeez!

[JCE3000GT]

I would love to see someone put this sort of thing in action.  If the formula is created maybe I will whip up a quick tech demo hack showing how it could be used.  :)