Topic: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)

[Swordmaster]

I think PinkPuff has the right decision on this. Lufia II allowed you to get armor of varying quality early on in the dungeons where as FFIV has a greater emphasis on equipment (save weapons, of course).

That's a good point.

[Pinkpuff]

UPDATE

http://www.timecave.net/ff4roguelikeifyer/ff4roguelikeifyer.zip

The zip now contains two files:

• FF4RL Base.ips Apply this patch to your rom first. This gets everything "set up" like the character creation room. It currently does not change anything about the characters or equipment.
  
  
• FF4Roguelikeifyer.exe This does the main part of the work. After patching your rom, rename it "test.smc" (yes, I'm still lazy :P) and run this program. It will now generate 20 floors which no longer have chests, but they should look more "natural" and should all connect up correctly. The mirror should take you to a save point on the first floor from which there's no going back.
  

[Grimoire LD]

This does look much more natural a few too many black spots which take the part of more defined architecture, but it works well enough. I would suggest that each place have a name label as well like "Stage 1" etc. since it can be a little confusing to tell whether you're going forwards or backwards. The enemy scaling works and it provides an excellent base (for caves). I imagine that each tileset will require it's own randomization formulas due to tilesets and the like.

[Pinkpuff]

This does look much more natural a few too many black spots which take the part of more defined architecture, but it works well enough.

Agreed. I'm content enough with it for it to suffice for the time being while I focus on getting more functional elements working. The cosmetics can come later once the basic engine is complete and stable.

I would suggest that each place have a name label as well like "Stage 1" etc. since it can be a little confusing to tell whether you're going forwards or backwards.

Good point! It will have to reset after each segment (about 20 floors followed by a boss battle, after which you can't warp back) because there are far more maps than there are labels for maps.

The enemy scaling works and it provides an excellent base (for caves). I imagine that each tileset will require it's own randomization formulas due to tilesets and the like.

In terms of the layout, yes, I suspect each tileset will have to have a fair bit of customization, but I think the underlying mechanic of "let's try to add a feature of some kind to what already exists" will remain.

Also I suspect the monster encounters will remain as they are, just steadily increasing without much regard to the terrain or tileset.

[Pinkpuff]

Update

http://www.timecave.net/ff4roguelikeifyer/ff4roguelikeifyer.zip

The content is still straight up vanilla, and I think what I'll do is stick to the vanilla content version for the time being, and the other options will be simply content-only patches that you would put over top of the FF4RL Base.

Chests are now generated and their contents should scale correctly with the dungeon level, or rather, with the segment of the dungeon you're in. What it's doing is I've created a bunch of shops that scale up, and the chest contents are generated based on the shop entries. That way, when patches are created for the different content types (Vanilla-Inspired, Unprecedented Crisis, etc), the chest content generation is easily fixed by updating the shops with the new equipment.

It now generates 11 segments of 20 floors each. Each segment begins with a save point and ends with a boss fight. It isn't clearing the warp stack yet, so don't delve too deep in the actual game (or if you do, don't go back). On that note, if possible I would like to add to my list of requests a patch to convert one of the visual effects into "clear entire warp stack without warping". Also, upon further thought, I think I'd like to retract my request for deleting the save data. Between save stating and just resetting before your team actually gets a game over, I think it's probably fine to just have saving work as normal. Save points and inns and the like will be fairly sparse anyway.

You might see some NPCs after a certain point; just ignore them if you can. It's possible they might block your way. If so, sorry to hear it, all I can say is that will be fixed in a future version. I don't recommend talking to any of them.

[Grimoire LD]

Sorry PinkPuff I've been running to and fro these last few days. I will try out this new version, but I only have 20 or so minutes to play around with it before I have to head to work.

Well, alot of the chests I opened just said "Found !" and didn't seem to add anything to my inventory. Is that intentional?

Also the name plates go from B4F to Inn, Item Shop, Weapon Shop, etc. I just assume that's not yet done and at about Floor 24 I ran into the Troian Saloon NPC set, which I assume was part of what you were referring to. After 20 floors there was a save point though, so that was nice. No boss though, I assume that's not yet implemented. So far it's looking like a great proof of concept!

[Pinkpuff]

Sorry PinkPuff I've been running to and fro these last few days. I will try out this new version, but I only have 20 or so minutes to play around with it before I have to head to work.

Well, alot of the chests I opened just said "Found !" and didn't seem to add anything to my inventory. Is that intentional?

Also the name plates go from B4F to Inn, Item Shop, Weapon Shop, etc. I just assume that's not yet done and at about Floor 24 I ran into the Troian Saloon NPC set, which I assume was part of what you were referring to. After 20 floors there was a save point though, so that was nice. No boss though, I assume that's not yet implemented. So far it's looking like a great proof of concept!

Thanks! Neither of those are intentional. Usually "Found !" means the chest somehow contained either the "no weapon" or "no armor" item. Did you patch the rom first before running the program? Maybe I did something wrong in creating the patch... it should be for an unheadered rom.

In any case, hopefully they're fixed now because it's time once again for another...

Update!

http://www.timecave.net/ff4roguelikeifyer/ff4roguelikeifyer.zip

This time NPCs should be working, including shops, "inns", summoners who teach you summons, and the Fat Chocobo. They're fairly sparse so if you go floor after floor without seeing any, it's not necessarily a bug, it might just be chance.

[Grimoire LD]

Thanks! Neither of those are intentional. Usually "Found !" means the chest somehow contained either the "no weapon" or "no armor" item. Did you patch the rom first before running the program? Maybe I did something wrong in creating the patch... it should be for an unheadered rom.

In any case, hopefully they're fixed now because it's time once again for another...

Update!

http://www.timecave.net/ff4roguelikeifyer/ff4roguelikeifyer.zip

This time NPCs should be working, including shops, "inns", summoners who teach you summons, and the Fat Chocobo. They're fairly sparse so if you go floor after floor without seeing any, it's not necessarily a bug, it might just be chance.

Hmm, first chest I opened in the new version with a newly patched unheadered rom was "Found !" so... not sure what's going on there. I suspect since you said you're using ?shops? to decide equipment level, I wonder if maybe blank space in shops are being put into the RNG draw?

Hmm, I just found a random NPC in the dungeon which had the text of adding Rydia to my team. (couldn't do so because the party was full) does that mean that you plan on being able to recruit your team completely by chance as an option?

Ran into a random black mage who hinted at the existence of the Underworld, which I'm pretty sure is an Agart line in the normal game.

Tavern girl from the Baron Inn saying that soldiers are acting terrible in there.

And after running into a cadre of NPC's spouting nonsense from various points in the game my journey comes to an end as one has taken residence in front of a door to the next area on the 19th floor.

I found several Shortbows, a lot of Mute arrows (3 stacks, which was nice), 2 Chain Whips, an Ice Shield, an Ogre Axe, and nothing in several chests.

[Pinkpuff]

Yikes, ok, by the sound of it, something is going horribly horribly wrong in the patching process...

Are you using the patch from inside the zip? Because it's been updated since the original FF4RL Base patch. What happens when you patch a fresh rom and then go into FF4kster and look at the shops? First shop should contain, in this order:

Potion
Phoenix down
Tent
MaidKiss
Eyedrop
EchoHerb
Pure
Ether

[thepatirckinator]

So you're working on Rougeflyer instead of FF4kster since you are very busy with work...

[Bahamut ZERO]

Just thought of an idea regarding saving, that is if the permadeath idea is still being considered.

What if the "Save" command on the menu was retooled to execute the saving routine on your current file, rather than take you to the file select screen to pick a file? That way one wouldn't be able to cheat the permadeath system, so to speak.

So you're working on Rougeflyer instead of FF4kster since you are very busy with work...

It's a free world.   

Also FF4kster's source code was released a good while ago, so technically anyone with a grasp of Basic (I think that's the language it was built on, anyway) could work on it at this point.   

[thepatirckinator]

Thank you! Pinkpuff must be very busy with work so it's great to see you work on FF4kster.

[Pinkpuff]

Just thought of an idea regarding saving, that is if the permadeath idea is still being considered.

What if the "Save" command on the menu was retooled to execute the saving routine on your current file, rather than take you to the file select screen to pick a file? That way one wouldn't be able to cheat the permadeath system, so to speak.

That is a good idea; however, I've pretty much given up on the idea of roguelike saving just because no matter what lengths we go to, at the end of the day, this is a SNES rom and not a standalone exe, so people will always have savestates at their disposal. Thus, I'm fine with designing the game with that in mind and foregoing the permadeath I had originally had in mind. That does remind me, though, that I should put the save point message back to what it was so it's no longer lying to the players!

So you're working on Rougeflyer instead of FF4kster since you are very busy with work...

That's actually a fair characterization. When I started FF4kster, I wasn't working and had tons of time and energy to spend on my personal projects. Even when I was going to school, I still had plenty of time to devote to it, especially during the summers. Now that I'm working, though, my project time is at a premium, and FF4kster is currently in a place where it's increasingly complex and increasingly difficult to make additions and fixes to. Also where I hadn't been working on it in quite some time, I have to re-read a bunch of code so I can re-figure out how everything works because it's not fresh in my mind anymore. Add to that the fact that the main thing missing from it that I was wanting to add, the overworld editor, is way beyond the scope of what I'm familiar with (it involves reading graphics, but not in the usual way that the tiles for the inner maps use, and I would also have to take into account some way of dealing with the "wide" tiles such as the mountain tops), and as well the fact that there is already an existing tool that seems to do this fairly effectively anyway (Entroper's), I feel like my time would be better spent on something less redundant and more up my alley; that way I can probably make more progress and do something more interesting.

So in short, yes, since I have less time now because of work, the time I do have for projects is better spent on the roguelikeifyer than FF4kster.

[Pinkpuff]

Update!

http://www.timecave.net/ff4roguelikeifyer/ff4roguelikeifyer.zip

All 15 segments should now be working correctly, including transitioning from the overworld to the underground and to the moon. The tileset is still the same everywhere, so the only way you can really tell will be by the monster encounters. I moved the Golbez/Shadow and Zeromus encounters to different formations so hopefully those will work without trying to launch plot scenes potentially hanging the game.

There are now 15 floors per segment now, as the maps were starting to take up too much room in the rom so I had to scale it back. On the up side, this leaves room for more treasures per map.

[Madsiur]

As I said on RHDN I really like the idea of this project.

I'd like to attempt this for FF6. I have most of the technicalities covered except efficient random generation of non-square rooms (with correct L1 & L2 tiles). Do you have a set of predefined room patterns that you give optionally some variations to have many different ones or does your random rooms are 100% generated by algorithms?

I'm just trying to find the best way to do this and currently there is a bit of head scratching.