øAslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=1789.msg17954e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index5640.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=1789.45e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index5640.html.zx?g^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÈÀêAOKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip8:ÖêAÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿTue, 10 Mar 2020 07:33:48 GMT0ó°° ®0®P®€§²ð®?g^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ3ŒêA FF4PSP - Journey Log

« previous next »
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »

Author Topic: FF4PSP - Journey Log  (Read 24018 times)

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2012, 07:25:56 AM »
Short post for now (will be busy during the day):

Two guesses on the Master's Staff's "Cura" Spell Power:
Min: 648
Max: 786
48 (normal Cura) * 13 Spell Multiplier
54 (slightly tweaked Cura) * 12 Spell Multiplier (leaning towards this version)

My major test is against undead, which is how I came up with the values. Undead treat healing as damage, and it works against their magic defense, so the damage dealt is lower.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2012, 02:18:08 AM »
Ebony Blade is what I thought it was initially.. Darkness elemental. I doubt it is as useful for that purpose, but it's something to consider if you're trying to expose weaknesses. I doubt there are that many monsters that can be exposed to it (Kirin is one). Monsters that actually have Darkness resistance (like the Black Knight) does cripple the attack power, as noted before when I was discussing physical elemental resistances in my Algo FAQ.

Rocket Launcher works a bit strange to me. It's not completely a combined attack between Cid+Ceodore, as the Fire elemental component probably has some sort of damage boost, but a small one at that of 25%. When a target is weak to that element (Fire), it seems to do like 50% more damage (it barely works against Flan that have the Fire elemental weakness). When a target is strong to the element of Fire, the damage resembles more of a combined attack.

I will continue on with the game, as planned later. I've kinda given up on the damned Purple Tail and the Behemoth.

 :edit:
One small update. Ebony Robe is also what I thought it was earlier... it has Darkness elemental resistance. Again.. I'm not sure how practical that is.

 :edit:
"Unite the clans" or something like that. In loading the combined stuff up, I gained 2 mil in gil. Go figure. Does anyone need 20+ Cursed Rings?

I'm not exactly sure having the Enterprise/Falcon music playing as the overworld theme is good or not. In some ways, it feels like FF6, searching for everyone... (with the background theme being Chrono Trigger-ish).

As soon as I realized this.. I can't get the best stuff for Edge weapon-wise.. as I split the weapon distribution. Perhaps, I should have been more greedy on that.

Luca initially will have the crappiest armor equipped. Ice Shield+Diamond Armor should fix most of what ails her.

Although the game gives you nice stuff occasionally through stuff "laying around", there's a lot of junk that's around too. Go figure.

Rydia learns all her -aga spells early... which is good. It's worth grinding for as needed.

Flare Tornado Band is really nice. Luca will be limited in the MP, but considering it is 15MP each, it is very easy to execute. I'm not sure how the damage is calculated, but it is automatically split, so damage can be limited, and it's solely Fire elemental. The Tornado (wind) aspect is not assigned as an elemental (the "wind-like" part is Big Throw). It isn't affected by row. This band is really useful during this tale as bosses will take a lot of damage from it, leaving Golbez to do what he wishes.

Rocket Launcher is affected by row... if I forgot to mention this earlier. The damage difference is minor as far as I can tell.

Broken Heart Band is kinda nice. It feels like a combined attack with a small 25% damage boost as the attack is split to every target (no split damage factoring in). However, it isn't Wind elemental though, so flying units do not take additional damage.

You will easily find that Luca will need a weapon upgrade early (whatever she has isn't going to scale like everyone else). It helps to do the Agart scenario first for that reason alone, even if you don't finish it in the first go. It might be a great time to grind for the Giant's Gloves here if you haven't gotten any. Keeping Luca with the Axe+Shield for a bit longer is worth it IMO, but this will require her to goto the front row since the throwing axe options start to suck (Dwarf Axe in particular makes her slow, and it's not even made Wind elemental).

Here's a simple and small trick to get certain monsters into the Bestiary. Save before you fight them (like Ramuh for instance), then use a spare slot (I've designated Slot 13 for this purpose) and save the result of the monster's defeat (Ramuh getting killed). Then, load back the older save and then get the desired result (getting the summon). This will get you the Bestiary entry and the summon... you could do it with the Antlion and the Sylph and with Shiva w/o any negatively known consequences. It should work going forward.

It is a bit lame how Rydia ends up with 1HP mysteriously during the battle with Ramuh. It's not as if Ramuh attacks her... even though the two combined attacks of Thunderbolt and Thundaga don't actually hurt that much.

I've gotten 2 of Edge's v2 Ninjutsu spells and they seem really powerful for a little bit of INT that was used for them. I wonder if they are imbalanced. The other Ninjas will not have the same type of INT that Edge gets, so I guess it might be balanced... but I'm not so sure.

Getting Chocobo for free is like an upgrade to the Goblin summon. Seriously, this doesn't feel much like an upgrade. Sylph is the first summon worth getting early and the other summons are kinda obsolete when the -aga spells are being learned so early. You don't need Titan... just use Golbez's Quake. You won't feel the difference... at least not by much.

Ramuh seems to have some odd Thundara thing where he hits Golbez, then Edge in succession. I figure the targeting might actually be randomized, but it would be based on row (attack a random character in the front, and then in the back row).

Running from Ifrit v2 is kinda dumb.

Rydia with the Killer Bow+Artemis Arrows was... disappointing. Consider that her STR really sucks, you don't get the multiplier you want. I guess the whip isn't a bad thing... but for now, the bow+arrow combo gets Rydia 100+ attack power (with a 4 or 5 attack multiplier).

The only seemingly new shops are at Troia and Baron. Go figure. The Bone Armor seems nice, but the elemental armors are probably more practical. The Bone Wrist is probably a better option...

Most of the monsters aren't really that hard, unless you didn't import the other data. Oh well.

I've gotten all the summons, so I'm off to the Eblan Cave passage to Babil. I've not gotten around to test the Recovery Rod yet.

I'm almost convinced 56 is the spell power for Healing Pill... but I'd have to test it to be sure.

It is a rare thought to consider Edge as the source of healing (assuming you aren't using items)... I'm not entirely sure why pretty much every character (I mean, the original 5) in the original game has healing powers of some sort now...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 09:07:08 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2012, 08:06:50 PM »
Been busy, so sorry for the slow-ish updates.

It's nice how the first drop against the High Wizard and Amazon was a Ribbon. Great monster to grind against... The Rose Twine Dress from the Amazon is actually nice, although long term it isn't a solution.... it provides good stats and protection for the women... Most of the female characters have pretty poor AGI stats, so this helps significantly.

The Sage Robe is like the fix that ails Palom... +10 STR and +10 AGI. Although, it is just as useful on Leonora.

Remembering how certain boss monsters were sad... like the Baigan. I don't quite get why Sandy was all about using Curaga when her "big" sister was dead (an improvement over Cura I guess) and Mindy who seemed to like casting Bio... which really isn't that threatening.

Scarmaglione (non-undead version) is abnormally slow or something. It feels (classic) Behemoth-like, with the Thundaga counters. The sad thing is that it's pretty damn easy to get the protection for that spell alone. Then again, I had already bought a complete set of Elven Bows, so casting Shell from the item was a breeze.

I gain some levels for the Dolls (from level 25 to 30)... it wasn't so bad, but they did need the help. Long term, the dolls are very dependent on their bands (which means you'll need Luca at the very least).

Mixing and matches characters is fun.

You'll find that having a dedicated fighter for a damage absorber is important meaning Kain, Yang, probably Cid should be your top choices, and Cecil later on because he's just a shell of himself. You can also use cheaper versions of the same characters (Ceodore, Ursula, and Luca are good cheaper options).

A dedicated White Mage is important... you need high Spirit and the best healing options available, so leave it to Porom, Rosa, or Leonora you'll need a bit more levels for Leonora on her White Magic side. Ceodore is an option but not a good full time healer because he's more of a emergency healer... if you had someone to offset that, it would be helpful (like having Brina Dance or Edward).

A Black Mage is kinda important... sometimes it is the most effective way of getting rid of Flan and easier monsters quickly. Quake is the best solution (it will take some time to grind for that)... Golbez, Palom, and Rydia are at the top of these lists. Alternative options are any of the ninjas and their Ninjutsu.

You will then need occasionally, one character that is able to ignore rows and reflect and are able to target any monster specifically on the field. For instance, Kain and Zangetsu are great for Jump (which has its own counters, like the Curse Dragon's special Jump retaliation). Rydia's summons are great (with their own sets of summon counters). Edge with his Throw (and the two ninjas that can throw stuff) is a good idea too... A cheap alternative is to use a Bow+Arrow or any strong back row compatible weapons and characters that can equip them (ambidextrous ninjas with boomerangs come to mind). You will want this particularly for targeting annoying monsters...

The most important IMO is having a character that has the fastest speed to lead off. This is more of a preventative type of thing where you want to be able to run away (using a spell like Smoke or Teleport) or heal up quickly after a nasty attack. Edge, Tsukinowa, Ursula are usually top candidates for this, with some notable alternatives like Golbez, Kain, Ceodore, and Edward being good enough for this role.

Anyways... the party changing system feels sluggish. FF6 and CT's system seemed a lot more seamless.

It took a hell of a long while to get the bands for the characters so far (Cecil's shell state makes it impossible to add some). I've noticed that most of them seem fairly logical in terms of logical groupage (those with White Magic, Black Magic, the young, the old, etc.). Then there's the oddball ones... like Exploding Kick (Yang+Gekkou), or Frost Wave (Izayoi+Leonora).

Double Tomahawk is funny. One can only imagine what Cid is muttering after Luca's head stompage. :P

Anyone need a Cursed Ring? I have 32 and counting. At this rate, I will have collected 99 after getting level 99 for all characters.

Most of the monsters seem new, but yet they are simply variations of what was already there. Since when was Sleep more threatening than Confuse?

A cheap way of avoiding Tent/Cottage usage is to swap characters into and out of the party switching system. It's probably just easier to spend the Cottage or Tent.

Lots of the equipment from the challenge dungeon have been very beneficial to the cause. The Flan Ring vs the Flan Princess was mighty useful... for once.

The Flan Ring unfortunately removes 10 magic defense to the character (the rating cannot be negative, so it is capped at 0)... lame punishment IMO. Imagine if/when Flan actually had magic.

I think Ursula's Tenketsu was made to fail vs Flan. Kinda like Kick and Dark Wave.... (I mean, what is the weak point of Flan?)

Edward is interestingly designed to have BardSong become useless later on. Unlike Brina's Dance, Bardsong is limited to a smaller subset of White Magic (Dance has Blink, Curaga, and Curaja, although Raise is not the spell I would want), and the statuses on offense are really not that great late game. So, he's really just the dumbed down version of a power healer and occasional monster killer. I guess that's not so bad.

Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2012, 02:26:32 AM »
I'm not sure if its emulation related, but it's really annoying when there is no audio playing in certain areas... which also affects the sounds at the same time.... WHHHYYYY?

Beating the "revived CPU" is a joke. How is it possible to make the enemy weaker than the original? Specifically, the attacking unit really sucks, particularly because it is based off its own HP... so all you really need to do is slowly sap life out of it if you wish to take less damage. Despite the defending core heals everything and anything it randomly wishes to (which isn't really much of an upgrade, and technically a nerf), the CPU battle continues to disappoint.

TBH, I think Rubicante vs the party is far more difficult. One of the things Rubicante likes to do near death is to cast Firaga or Blizzaga depending on the state of his cloak. This guarantees that he will be healed pretty well (relatively speaking) and requires you to focus on dealing significant damage late in the battle. Of course, you could consider putting Reflect status on him, but that would also mean you will be taking pretty significant damage.

Solo Edge with Spider Silk+Lunar Curtain = Auto-Battle gg. Lunar Curtain provides physical "invincibility", which Rubicante doesn't remove so it doesn't really matter what Rubicante does at this point. The match is over before it began. It's not hard to kill him even if you lose the effect of Reflect at some point...

Although in the older versions of FF4 where Confuse status on Berserked characters would eventually remove Berserk status upon Confuse status removal, TAY allows Berserk status to continue on its way after Confuse removal.

Dispel removes Slow (and Haste, subsequently), which is nice. Finally, someone paid attention to obvious stuff.

The Clockwork Dragon still hurts... if not hurts more than the original. If left unchecked, it will be able to kill characters under 2500HP that have no fire resistance. You simply will not have enough characters with fire resistance available (generally speaking)... you will have gotten a complete set of Dragon Armor (good for Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Luca, Cid, and Golbez, I think) 1 Protect Ring, and 1 Red Cap (limited to what FF5 would call "medium armor" for Monks/Ninjas) . On paper, that should cover every character, but you would have to make some sacrifices like actually constructing a party using those characters and using Luca (Throw), Kain (Jump), and perhaps Golbez (just using magic) in the back row. Having Ceodore as the primary healer would probably suck. Otherwise... just expect most of the other characters to immediately wasted.

The Fire Scarf does what I thought it should... since the Absorb property can attach itself to other elemental properties (like the Cursed), this is great since it doesn't have any negative side effects like the Cursed Ring (well, outside of the lowered magic evasion and lack of magic defense, which would actually help you out). +3 to all stats outside of SPR.. with insane evasion. This allows any Ninja to become incredibly useful, plus it makes Izayoi the ultimate magic rod with the Mystic Veil. Yes, absorbing a full dose of Holy (or Meteor? I'm not sure if the elemental property changed). All you need now is a band or another healer to provide multitargeted healing.

Human Kite is reacted to the same as Jump by Barbariccia. TBH, I think this version is more dangerous since she actually counters with Tornado and Stone Touch, instead of waiting for her next turn. Your mistake is your own undoing (although, Kain isn't probably required, but it makes life easier).

Cagnazzo still sucks, but taking your sweet time will get you killed. Double dose of Yang and Ursula is a winning combo. I did also notice that outside of them, Edge can equip Claws (as usual, and not limited to basic originals)... and not Tsukinowa.

The Thunder Dragon is still dangerous when left unchecked (the harder than normal/hardest version in the final dungeon). Thunderbolt still hurts despite resistances.

Gekkou's inability to equip shields sucks. I guess it's axe/hammer full time...

Porom learning Holy earlier than Rosa is great... not that it makes things different in the grand scheme of things.

You would think Palom would learn Quake quickly... I thought he was a genius.. :P

I don't think Porom learns Float too early IIRC, so it might actually be possible for Porom to not actually have it legitimately during the Titan event.... I mean by comparison, Leonora starts with Esuna, so there's a logical reason to that (then again, how the twins are able to cast Break on themselves w/o having learned it kinda breaks a few things).

I have only 4 Ribbons so far (I'd like the complete set... and then some for later...) 2 Artemis Arrows (kinda wish for one more... which should be easy to obtain) and 30+ Cursed Rings... great. I also got a 2nd Black Tail on the random drop... yet I cannot get a freaking Pink Tail yet...

Apollo's Harp is rather conflicting with Edward vs the Red Dragon. It seems to negate the damage bonus from the racial bonus (it is almost as if the 1/2 damage reduction is applied first). This weapon is an upgrade.. just not for that monster (+10 STR, +10 AGI, +10 SPR).

The strongest of men get the best heavy type armor (Luca is the exception). Women on the other hand get a ton of really good armor options... like the Gold Hairband (lightning elemental, dragon resistance, +10 INT), Mystic Veil (holy resistance +7 INT, +7, SPR, +1 AGI), Rose Twin Dress (+3 all, very good evasion), Minerva Bustier (not acquired yet, +?? STR, AGI, VIT, -?? INT, SPR, great evasion). Luca gets quite a bit of the best of both worlds, outside of the actual armor. Even Brina (the female doll) gets the good stuff. It's hard to argue against these facts...

For a thought, compare Luca vs Cid's armor options... then Ursula vs Yang's armor options.

If there were only more Dragon armor to go around though... although, it isn't a half bad idea to grind Red Dragons (the non-tail versions) for them. It's a Protect Ring plus IMO (especially given that there is a ton of dragons in the original, and here as well).

Bow+Arrows are really not as effective for Rydia, Palom, and Porom... similar characters like Leonora, Harley, and Rosa gain quite a bit of STR, which generally makes them significantly more effective with such weapons.

Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2012, 07:23:44 PM »
I'm at the point where I can kill the DK...

Right now, I've been grinding, but grinding in a smart way. It is interesting that all the warp points are in areas where there are really really good drops. I have 4 Minerva Bustiers (one more needed for the set), 2 Crystal Rings (yet only 1 Wyvern Lance), 10 Ribbons (need 5 more or so) and a Rune Axe. I still need to eventually grind for another Artermis Arrow drop... though I really want the Artemis Bow this time around...

Minerva Bustier is most useful on Harley, given that she has no magic (+10 STR, AGI, STA, -10 INT, SPR). This is more similar to the FF4ET version of the armor... which is a bit more forgiving for spell casters.

The White Robe provides +10 SPR, unlike the +15 SPR in the original (of course, for balance reasons).

If the Sage's Robe is like the version used in FF4A (I think it's the same?), then it protects vs mages as well.

I'm not sure why the Cursed Ring wasn't tweaked... it's still -15 to all stats...

While you're curious, I have 30+ Cursed Rings... but I have just as many Giant's Gloves to go around. Anyone want any? Although, with the Crystal Ring drops being a lot more frequent.... I'll need some extra Protect Rings soon (the Crystal Ring is better when you already have elemental protection).

I know there's another enemy that drops Dragon Shields... and that's great unless your Cid or Luca... where this isn't as practical when their stronger weapons are 2-handed.

I forget the logic behind having 2-handed axes being actually weaker than hammers. Hammers have a 75% hit rate... but Axes have a lower hit rate (Dwarf Axe/Ogrekiller = 69%, Poison/Rune Axe = 60%). The whole point of an axe is really to be able to kill giants or some racial monster... Hammers are the way to go, despite being slightly weaker to this point (the Sledgehammer being the only strongest available weapon so far).

Is it just me, or did they flip the colors of the Poison and Rune Axe? Poison is green, whereas Rune is now purple. For consistency, usually green is used for anti-mage weaponry (Elven Bow, Mage Masher). Maybe I haven't noticed this before because... I haven't really used these weapons.

Poison Axe is still anti-giant... fortunately.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2012, 08:43:47 AM »
Done the Cecil event... but find myself grinding for more stuff, and Cecil's level to get from 40 to 60. It's actually fun getting stuff with Treasure Hunter v2 and Rare Band v2. Stuff is coming more often... at least somewhat measurably better, but these things are not givens. At least the items are dropped probably twice as frequently, with usually better stuff.

Collected an Artemis Bow... finding a way to cripple Harley's magic stat growth (however useful that is) is pretty interesting. She's wicked fast with that Artemis Bow and Minerva Bustier, but not much more useful...

I think the Ribbon count is now @ 12, and picked up the 3rd Crystal Ring (no luck on getting the 2nd Wyvern Lance yet).

Looking at the band list briefly, it seems to me that the best bands are the ones that have pretty good team construction... or at least ones that have decent groupings.

For example, I like the classic FF4 group a lot, since a lot of decent bands become available. The ultimate 5 character one in that group is... overkill... but there's still a lot to be had.

Other groups like the new young team (Ceodore, Ursula, Luca) can be potent... and the new mage team (Palom, Porom, Leonora) can be mixed somewhat for really good results.

Also, Team Ninja (or Team Eblan) in Edge's scenario are pretty good as a combo (there are really good individual combos too).

Although, Team EvilDoll can be difficult to manage (Luca, Cid, Calca, Brina)... you could add Edward (there's a special band that goes with the dolls) to gain healing (no outside healing though).

Anything that resembles Team Magi would be difficult to run defensively... (Palom, Porom, Leonora, Rydia, Rosa).

Team Baron is pretty complete (Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Cid, Rosa) and isn't bad on paper (this is a classic FF4 formation after the original Tower of Zot event).

Golbez's Bands, outside of FuSoYa is really tied to Cecil... so it can allow you to sub Edge out as needed.

Team Royal (Cecil, Yang, Edward, Edge) probably could use help from either Rosa or Harley for healing (Harley's band is key for this actually).

Team Holy Monk (Cecil, Ceodore, Yang, Ursula) doesn't make too much sense in terms of formation... I guess Ceodore could be in the back, but this will be limited offensively...

Team Ordeals (Cecil, Palom, Porom) can easily be a start of various combos... since the twins and Cecil have various band combos available between the two (adding Leonora or Rosa or Rydia for wizardry can work, there's too many fighters on the other side that can work well too, like Golbez, Kain, Ceodore, Cid... not so much Luca, as she is dependent on Leonora or Cid ).

Team Saved the World (Edge, Rydia, Luca, minus Golbez) has a solid foundation band that I liked, in Flare Tornado. This team could easily add Cid (for Luca) or the dolls or even part of Team Ninja (specifically Izayoi and Gekkou for healing, or Tsukinowa and Zangetsu for Haste) or mages (Palom and Leonora).

A lot of the other bands are kinda gimmicky in terms of dealing with formations, so it makes sense to build around working 2 fighter + 3 mage formations or 3 fighter + 2 mage formations... (which can be adjusted to 4 fighter + 1 healer if the back row characters like Kain with Jump or Luca with Big Throw are available).

This game should have come with a "sort band" option... so it would rearrange the bands based on the construction of the team. It should ideally be automatic...

Remove all equipment should have been an option (kinda like the guy on the airship in FF6 or FF6's equipment menus).

Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2012, 08:17:21 PM »
Trying to create 3 or 4 complete teams of characters and that's not very easy.

Team 1: Original 5 (shouldn't have to explain this)
Team 2: Eblan 4 (minus Edge, plus Golbez)
Team 3: I'm not sure how to properly nickname this... 4 Women And A Boob or Palom's Angels (Palom, Leonora, Porom, Ursula, Luca)
Team 4: Whoever's left outside of the dolls... (unfortunately, that means Ceodore is pretty much by himself bandless, which isnt good... I'll have to think about improving this)

Trying to find proper combos with Yang and Cid is difficult. Cid's compatibility is pretty much limited to Luca and her dolls and Yang's compatibility is limited to Ursula... then we have Edward who's practically attached to Harley (or the other way around I suppose).

I don't like Bands that take every character... because most of the time, the cost/benefit ratio sucks. If you can use 3 of 4, usually you can do some other stuff with the lone character in action.

For Team 3, it's really simple. Ursula doesn't have much in common with the others, outside of some bands that require herself and Ceodore (with Luca or Cecil+Yang), but the main attraction happens to involve certain bands...

Petal Whirlwind's description is interesting - as it suggests it should be combined with elemental weakness. It's true and it's a great bonus that it ignores the "damage limit". Great for boss killing.

Palom in the Sky is a complementary band to something else. It's a great Thundaga alternative (30 MP consumed) and though this doesn't ignore the damage limit, it is great during Depths B5 where the Goblin Princes and the Sahagin Princes are susceptible to that elemental. Finishing up the process is I believe a Curaja on Palom that ends the sequence (and Curaja costs 40MP!) It's kinda weird when Curaja heals 0HP (you would've thought he took damage).

Ice Crush is HILARIOUS. However, it has some downsides... which is why Palom in the Sky is actually very important. Although Luca's Big Throw allows her to toss her weapon like some sort of boomerang, part of the sequence involves Palom being the recipient of the attack. The damage dealt to the monsters is pretty significant, despite being elemental... so you would have to treat the attack as a normal attack by Luca on Palom... (meaning, it would help a lot for Palom if he had that equipped). I tried using Blink on Palom in advance, but that wouldn't be a factor apparently. The great side effect of Ice Crush is that Luca's weapon is a major factor on the monsters, so while I have the Sledgehammer equipped on her, there's a great chance that they get confused as a result of the blow (Palom hasn't fallen under confuse so far, since I have not gotten him Confuse protection IIRC).

This trio of upper tier bands are very good, so I'm sure there will be good formations to be had...

I had been thinking of a Cecil, Ceodore, Kain (in back row), Golbez and Rosa formation... that would allow Cecil and Ceodore to maximize the bulk of their power bands....

Feel free to discuss character formations that work... (outside of the obvious 5-character bands)...

Pink Armor does block Paralysis, Death, and a few others I cannot recall. It is somewhat better than the Ribbon (it allows the women to equip the Gold Hairband or Mystic Veil w/o much penalty).

Blue Armor doesn't seem to be too effective vs the monsters it is supposed to resist... unless the damage algo has changed a bit... I know they deal less damage... but perhaps the attack power is only lowered by 1/4 because the accuracy might not have changed.... and if their attack power was lowered by 1/2, the damage would be far less than anticipated. Maybe it's just damage reduction by 1/2 instead (basically, do all the math vs armor and whatnot, then just reduce the damage dealt)... which would probably make better sense. Having 100+ armor values doesn't seem to deter the monsters, so clearly something is going on.

I've gotten a party set of 5 Crystal Rings... and 3 Artemis Bows (but I'll need to get 1 more Artemis Arrow set first to have a complete party set)...

13 Ribbons and counting...

2 Rune Axes available now (need a 3rd to complete the set, for Cid, Luca, and Gekkou... the others that can equip them are usually not worth giving them to)...

I have a complete set (and then some) of Minerva Bustiers (like 6?). Go figure on what to do with them. The Artemis Bow is probably better than the Minerva long term... mainly because the armor provides little magic defense... unless you need Paralysis protection (which is kinda important for certain enemies).

I believe I have 3 or 4 Dragon Whiskers... which is probably more effective than the Wyvern Lance and the Artemis Bow+Arrow combos out there. In general, the Wyvern Lance is actually equal to the Artemis Bow+Arrow combo before you factor in the stat bonuses (the Bow+Arrow combo is better there, but you can't equip a shield for that reason). For the simple math, you must take HALF of the Bow's listed attack power (which is correct) and then add it to the attack power of the arrows... this is how you get the actual attack power of a Bow+Arrow combo. Artemis Bow (80 attack power) + Artemis Arrows (75 attack power) = 115 combined attack power (40 is the Artemis Bow's effective attack power + 75 from the Arrows).

The Blue Dragon is the only reason where the Dragon Whiskers are better... when a monster is elementally resistant to the weapon's element, just slash the attack power in half. The Blue Dragon is resistant to ALL elements (well, it actually ABSORBS them), including "Throw" or Wind elemental which I've been calling it (the Bestiary does not list Throw as an elemental, but it's there, including the original game's version). It's easy to test this with Gale, which is clearly a Wind elemental spell (the monster absorbs this and every elemental). So, just on that alone, the weapons are dumbed down to 57.5 attack power (or 57, due to truncation). The Dragon Whisker is not affected by this, so it deals full damage to the Blue Dragon. Both the Bow+Arrow combo and ALL lances are Wind elemental... which always limits the damage potential. Overall, these weapons are more effective vs other dragons in general (the Red Dragon for one, of course).

At least with the Dragon Whisker, you can equip a shield (well, only one specific shield anyways) to go with it... which is probably very beneficial if you want defense over effectively double the attack power with the Artemis Bow+Arrow combo. Only 3 normal characters can equip Whips anyhow...

I've had similar rants about the Blue Dragon before... so... this shouldn't be new news...

Strangely enough, the Dragon Claw doesn't seem to be affected by this too much (great for Ursula in fact).

It's not good to have a Boomerang around.. you might as well just use Katanas outright because that would effectively be the same...

I would like to add, that the classic weapons from the FF1 elementals should allow one to use the dolls effectively... since their weapon options really suck before this point (armor-wise, it's not as much an issue).

One thought about Cover Counter... before I forget. It is possible for Yang and the monster he is countering to both die from the counterattack. Beware and it is probably best to combine Cover Counter with Blink because Yang takes a crapload more damage than Cecil on average due to armor... despite the fact that Yang has a lot more HP to work with.

BTW, Asura seems to counter everything... even when I used Palom's Bluff... heh.

 :edit:
I think I forgot to mention this... but I did chuckle when Edge was looking for "the knife" after asking Yang's wife for something to wake him and Ursula up... yes, someone remembers such details.

Cat Hood Ears (FF6 based item, FF4A reused) is mainly a Wizard based armor... +7 AGI to go with Ice protection is nice (since, that kinda complements the Red Cap to some degree, but the Red Cap is for Ninjas and Monks really).

Blue Armor has +5 STR and +5 STA, which is kinda lame, since they need more help with AGI like the women... 0% evasion but a crapton of defense and magic defense.

Pink Armor has +5 AGI, with an insane evasion bonus...

Triton's Dagger is similar to its FF4A version, +10 INT.

Assassin Dagger is similar to its FF4A version... +15 INT with instant death randomness.

Dragon's Claw provides +10 STR and +10 SPR... great for Ursula...

Rising Sun provides +10 AGI... which is good enough to counter the Murasame's -5 AGI loss.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 11:25:18 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2012, 10:14:15 AM »
Red Jacket is nice (could arguably be better than the Brave Suit)... +10 STR, +10 AGI... fire resistance does help.

Hypnocrown is not exciting... +5 INT bonus.

Triton's Dagger uses the Flood version in TAY, so it's barely much better than Gaia's Hammer in terms of overall damage. It is likely that Triton's Dagger has the same spell multiplier like its original (Spell Multiplier = 8). Chances are Thor's Hammer won't be that much better (outside of the chance of instant death to specific elementally weak monsters).

I like Team Holy Monk (or Holy Fist) for King's Quad, especially if you add Luca to the group. It will allow you to do  one more skill, specifically Delta Evolution. The team is VERY physical, so it's major deficiency is magic... no black magic to kill Flan with... or even Mini to make them harmless.
You can make up the back row inefficiencies through Big Throw and Focus (both Yang and Luca in the back row).
There are lots of natural bands to go with them... mostly two-character bands between many of the characters (Yang+Ursula, Cecil+Ceodore, Ceodore+Ursula, Cecil+Yang).

Kain is a good option here, but he suffers from the same problems as Luca (must rely on Jump), but he does have one really good band that goes with Cecil (and eventually Ceodore).

I think if you sub in Golbez for Luca, it might be more well rounded actually. That should clear the team's deficiency perfectly... in fact, it allows you to take advantage one of Golbez's best bands which requires Ceodore (as limited for the most part as he's chained to Cecil for any useful bands). Golbez can be part of the back row since he has magic... or in the front row to sub in for Yang or Ceodore. The only limitation is healing since Ceodore is probably closer to the bottom of Curaga healers in the game (but as said before, he would be naturally the fastest).

 :edit:
I forgot to mention that the Behemoth version in the depths is not logged... it's probably like the non-Tail Behemoth... probably closer to the one in FF4 (15K HP), but it's unknown what the it has in its rare drop slot.

 :edit:
I'm liking the modified Golbez addition to Team Holy Fist. The only caveat is that you have to actually make a decision... putting Ceodore in the back improves Ceodore's damage intake vs physical attacks, but limits his contribution to Advance Blade Band (Cecil, Ceodore, Golbez). For better overall offense, it may be better to put Golbez in the back row, since Black Magic is not row dependent.

I'll just call this new formation, Team Chaos Fist (Cecil, Ceodore, Golbez, Yang, Ursula. Note that the

I will try Cecil, Luca, Leonora, Palom, Porom later for the Break Breaker Band (Cecil, Palom, Porom) with the existing love for Palom in the Sky and Ice Crush (Cecil can just cure Palom when it comes to that band). I'll call this group for now.. "Team High Power"..

Looking over the King's Quad Band (will need to test it out), the best extra member of this group (of Cecil, Yang, Edge, Edward), that I can figure is Rydia. Edward would be the designated healer and there are actually quite a hit of bands based on summons for ALL of the characters in said group, allowing Rydia to be very useful.

I'm thinking of writing a band-based FAQ. This has probably been the best addition to the game... as much as there are other oddities about it....

 :edit:
Cover Counter is way more useful than originally thought. The original basis of the Cover command is that Cecil takes the damage that he would've gotten based on the row that Cecil is in. Obviously, it's not practical for him offensively to put him in the back row, but it's great as a defensive strategy to simply cover from the back row.

Cover Counter uses this philosophy, but also returns damage based on the row the character is in. So, let's assume that Ursula is in the front row and Yang is using his Cover Counter from the back row (BTW his cover command can override's Cecil's cover when the character Yang is covering is critical). He will absorb the attack as if the target was in the back row (which Yang is currently in) and deal damage as if Yang was in the front row (which is where Ursula is at). This has some interesting applications and can allow Yang to stay in the back row if you so desire. If Yang is covering a back row character while he is the back row, obviously, he will do less damage... I assume you can figure this out (if you can't, test it out yourself).

It's amusing that the Assassin Dagger cannot be equipped by Edge, but on the other hand, it's not a big deal. It would be overpowered... however, seeing Triton's Dagger can be equipped by Edge is useful since the INT bonus (+10) is useful.

Gigant Axe has a STR bonus of +10. I'm not sure if it has any other attributes at the moment.

I was incorrect with regards to row and Advanced Blade. I think the moon phase affected its damage output.

The strong attack power phase really increased the damage of the Sword and Fist band from it's normal 12k (or was it 16k? - the moon phases evade me sometimes), so it was upgraded to 22k damage. That was incredible IMO.

Tiger Claws are nice +10 AGI and +10 STR. You won't need that much STR boosting with Yang for the most part (let alone Ursula), but having them non-elemental is very important for the long run. If you need elemental claws, aim for the Dragon Claw (well, for Ursula anyways) or the Hand of the Gods (+10 AGI bonus is key there).. the latter probably is more helpful for the stat boosts, whereas the Dragon Claw does help killing dragons...

I need to check Loki's Harp's claim of racial dominance (particularly vs Flan), but its stat boosts are nice (+10 STR, AGI, STA).

TAY doesn't seem to add the "attack bonus" of having a second weapon equipped anymore... this is most notable when you equip the Adamant Shield. Oh well, the boomerang is the best "shield" you could want (from the back row of course).

 :edit:
I hate how I keep forgetting certain details... oh well.

Machine Break Band (Cecil+Cid) is great vs the Deathmask. 9999 is great... except this isn't as useful if Cid has a hammer. It's probably better reserved for Luca if you're going against them (or at least give Luca the stronger one, because she's faster overall).

King's Quad Band is incredible (Cecil, Yang, Edward, Edge). Did 16k damage (breaks limit) and healed a bit. The healing was around 700 or so, so I get the feeling the spell power is of a Curaja, only because I've seen such pathetic numbers when Tellah was around. I don't think it's Curaga level because the healing would have had a higher Spirit stat.... for that level of healing, you would need double the SPR stat that someone like Rosa would have... it could be in between.

I'm unsure if there was a limit in the Wii version (it sounds like it for some reason), but it might be a hidden gem considering people's dislike of Edward.  :tongue:

I'm kinda experimenting with combos involving Luca+Rydia+Edge (Flare Tornado band) and I think that one includes Gekkou and Izayoi has potential. I referenced their healing band Phantom Lightflies and this is the best emergency healing you can get. It probably helps to not put resistant elemental equipment on Gekkou... especially since Izayoi has the best elemental equipment set ever...

Inferno is a much stronger version of Firaga, but the cheap version is Flare Tornado IMO (15MP vs Inferno's 40MP). Quake (30MP) is still better if you don't need the elemental aspect (or if they are floating...

Izayoi's Stealth Kill is great vs the Dust Mousse (with its freaking 254 Magic Defense).

Gekkou is technically a good alternative to Cid, but the Shuriken command probably puts him ahead of Cid, despite Cid's bands with Luca (which are probably more limited than you would realize).

Meteor is not Holy elemental. I tried using it on the Blue Dragon... so that's apparently not the case anymore. However, I'm not exactly sure what the spell power happens to be (I think it's 1000... it's either that or 800).

Loki's Lute (the Harp is probably a Wii reference) isn't effective vs Flan as far as I can tell... so it's the same as it was in FF4A. (Hint: The description lies.) For example, the Crystal Ring protects against Paralysis, but isn't mentioned by the description.

I bet the Crystal Mail is the same as it was in FF4... only a limit set of resistance. Don't believe it is another Ribbon, because it's probably not.

 :edit:
I've been juggling characters around looking for good combos and there hasn't been any really good ones to face off vs the Deathmask. I'm just convinced all these incarnate versions are evil.... but then you should already know that.  :tongue:

Most of the time, the offense isn't as great when the Thunder Claw is introduced into the equation... well, specifically for Edge.
BTW, the attack bonus is not applied to shields... to be clear. Two weapons will gain that attack bonus (which grows with more STR and levels).

I was trying to combine Cid+Luca into some useful combos, and outside of the dolls (which I have really underused since I'm reaching points where their ultimate drops are at hand...), there isn't many. It's easier to use Yang+Ursula with Luca just to attack Deathmasks with...

Right now, I have a Ceodore, Ursula, Luca, Tsukinowa, Porom combo at work... it's not that great (although, I need to test out a band of theirs first). I know I could sub in Palom for the ultimate 5-band combo, but Tsukinowa does provide a decent speed presence (if Ceodore or Ursula isn't picking up the slack) and he has a band with Porom that might be really powerful (40 MP)... so I'll test it in the upcoming boss battles.

While under auto-battle, there is a tendency that the spells that are bounced off the Proto Deathmask (probably including the regular one) bounces towards the middle slot. I've been taking advantage of this fact by equipping Luca with the Mystic Veil (it's good for something after all).

I got a Glass Mask early.. but I don't expect anything worthwhile from it (unless they reinstated the Immune property, which I should check).

I need more Protect Rings (and Dragon Shields to complete a set of 3 or 4... especially given that Luca and Cid won't really need them)...
I'll also need more Pink Armor... I'm not entirely sold on the Blue Armor (especially since I'd have to develop more dragon-killing groups, which are easy to create for the most part)... especially since the Flan Princesses are more likely to spawn said drops. The Pink Armor is generally the solution to having a better-ish Ribbon (although, I'd have to test the resistance)... especially with the critical Paralysis resistance (very useful against the Duke Malboro in Depths B12, which attempts to Paralyze everyone).
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 05:32:24 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Grimoire LD

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 1,684
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2012, 01:24:58 AM »
Wow! You got a Glass Mask? I was trying to get one of those for too long, but never did. I am curious to know how the Immune byte works in TAY, if at all.
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2012, 05:31:11 AM »
I have not gotten around to figuring it out yet.

The Immune byte is simple... when properly combined with elemental properties, it would reduce damage by that elemental (magic or physical) to 1. This is most notable with DK Cecil's weaponry vs Zombies.

The Adamant Armor has it (not quite sure in the PSP port, and IIRC they revamped TAY's version). However, it was limited that it was specific to elemental magic, not maxHP/currentHP based elemental monster magic where it would just follow the resistance rules for those formulas.

The Immune byte doesn't work like Absorb, where it attaches itself to resistance... it must be "built-in" to the armor itself like the Adamant Armor. The Glass Mask had this bit in the original... and it was removed in the WSC/GBA versions.

A side effect of the Immune bit was permanent elemental weakness in the original game... so as soon as you removed the Adamant Armor, you would be weak vs Lightning and twice as weak vs Fire and Ice (because of the whole Fire/Ice armor resistance/weakness behavior). It also had the side effect of providing 99% evasion (not magic evasion). I suspect it was intended for magic evasion, but since this feature was unfinished and revamped in later ports (like the absorb property), it kinda got lost.

Anyways, Makeshift Cannon sucks IMO unless you have multiple targets involved. The biggest problem with the Band is that you consume a lot of MP (58) to dish 10k or so damage, but it's really a multi-target based attack, so wasting it on a boss is just that... a waste. This is especially true when you can easily add damage through Holy or Flare from Palom and Porom.

Monster targeting tendencies change when you goto a 2-3 or 3-2 formation (using football terminology). The first number denotes the characters in front row and the second # denotes the # of characters in the back.

Twincast is literally the Black Magic Band from FuSoYa and Golbez with I think the actual chance of casting Meteor. The only difference is that it consumes more magic than the original band it is based on (Twincast is 40MP, whereas Black Magic Band is 30MP).

Delta Evolution is really overkill late game (Ceodore+Luca+Ursula), where the limit cap is reached pretty quickly. It might be a good idea to have the Limit Ring equipped, but it's easier to rely on the cheaper version of it Twin Rush (Ceodore+Ursula) where the MP pool isn't limited to Luca (in the Makeshift Cannon party, Luca is the one that has the least amount of MP).

In finding out how bad Delta Evolution, I've also found that Healing Wind (Porom+Tsukinowa) is insanely powerful. It's twice as powerful as Curaja (seriously, although this was at a moon phase that increased White Magic) and adds what looks like Esuna to the party. 40MP for two characters is really double the power.

I've subbed Luca out of my current party, which now has Ceodore, Ursula, Palom, Porom, and Tsuiknowa. I'll play around with the Rapid Fire Band (Ceodore, Palom, and Tsuiknowa, 20MP) and see if this combo looks promising.

 :edit:
Rapid Fire Band is good... low MP cost (20), but its potential can be unleashed with a target weak vs Fire and with the Limit Ring. However, it can be effective long term vs monsters that resist Fire as the damage dealt is stronger...

So Ceodore, Ursula, Palom, Porom, and Tsuiknowa is not too bad.

I'm onto Cecil, Palom, Porom, Kain, and Rosa. I want to look into Break Breaker Band (35MP) and see how good this is... will look into Team Baron for better insight later.
Some particular bands I want to look into would be Sky Grinder (wondering if Double Jump with Ceodore+Kain is better). Porom and Rosa have a particular non-healing band (Holy Ray, 50MP) that hits every monster (think Double Holy before actually learning it). Then there's also particular bands with Cecil, Kain, Rosa (Trinity Crusade for 35MP and Effect Form for 20MP).

Substituting Ceodore in this group (to remove Palom or Porom, Palom would be a likely candidate actually since there are a few limited bands with him involved whereas Porom has a few), probably increase in the Holy based attacks... with some healing bands with Rosa.

I originally liked the idea of Cecil, Palom, Porom, Lenora, and Luca if only to make Cecil the designated healer for Palom for Ice Break... but having Ursula is better for Petal Whirlwind and Chakra does the same thing for free.

I had thought of Cecil, Golbez, Ceodore, with Palom and Porom, but that would just add only Golbez's limited bands, where it isn't that the most cohesive (well, specifically Golbez anyways).

Cecil, Palom, Porom, and Rydia has some potential.. with probably the third character would be Rosa... unfortunately this is already a mage heavy party. This would allow some special bands (Cecil+Rydia for Iron Flash, Rydia+Rosa for Holy Burst, Rydia+Palom for Thunderstorm, Porom+Rosa for Holy Ray).

Twincast's other spell is "Double Flare" as noted by the sound effects. It's technically worth the 40MP, but this hits the damage cap easily.

Glass Mask = worthless. Even the Thornlet in FF6 was more useful as a trade option...

If only the Gigant Axe was like, useful vs Giants... because it technically loses out to Thor's Hammer minus the elemental aspect (Thunder).

Thor's Hammer provides +10 STR, but also casts Blitz, so it probably uses the same value it did in FF4A (GBA port) for the spell multiplier (it's either 7 or 8). Finally, something that can kill black flan instantly.

I will look into combos dealing with Tri-Disaster (Palom, Rydia, and Leonora) and Wild Whip (Rydia, Izayoi, and Harley) soon.

 :edit:
Some updated list (in my playthrough) on physical based bands that ignore row:
Cross Slash Prime
Rapid Fire (I think)
Vibra Plus
Holy Cross (I think)
Sky Grinder
Spiral Blow
Trinity Crusade
Vibra Prime

Some bands that depend on row:
Rocket Launcher (it actually depends on Cid's row, not Ceodore's).
Machine Break (it actually depends on Cid's row, not Cecil's... not Limit Ring worthy) - damage is based on a combo of Cid+Cecil with a 25% damage bonus, and racial bonus applied when applicable.

One of the bad things about Team Baron is that it really lacks a black magic user... so it's very dependent on the multitargeted bands. It's easier to sub in Golbez or Rydia for black magic and some better alternative bands. Team Lunarian (Cecil, Ceodore, Golbez) with Kain and Rosa (or Team Young Baron plus Golbez) or Team Baron Mist (Cecil, Ceodore, Kain, Rosa, Rydia) is definitely more optimal. "Baron Mist" is in reference to the Mist event... remember that Cid wasn't really involved in any of that and remember that part of Ceodore and Kain's journey involves Mist.

Many of the late game bands allow Ceodore to be in the back row, which allows him to not lose power in his bands.

Trinity Crusade does 15k damage and is the actual equivalent of Kain (Jump), Cecil (Fight), and Rosa (Holy). This is far better than Vibra Prime where it is more geared towards multiple enemies, and arguably be better than Makeshift Cannon for the damage that is dealt. Whatever you construct with Kain, Cecil, and Rosa is pretty damn good...

Effect Form is disappointing... as it is specific to the three characters involved with the Band. However, the MP cost for it can be justified (Curaja being 40MP, Protect is 9MP, Shell is 10MP).

Sky Grinder is very expensive for what you are getting out of it... (45MP). Trinity Crusade is better (35MP). Spiral Blow is close enough (22MP), but I think that has a limit...

Divine Heal in some ways looks like Cura, but it's really a combined every of Curaga from both Rosa and Ceodore. It is certainly affected by the phases of the moon. IIRC, in a favorable moon phase, it will also do Esuna or something (it seemed to work vs the Duke Malboro's paralysis attack).

 :edit:
Divine Heal was noted to be affected by the phases in a Walkthrough, so I'm not imagining things... :P

I assembled Team Girl Power (Rosa, Porom, Leonora, Ursula, Luca) thinking to use Petal Whirlwind... however I had a simple backup plan for Omega.

One of the bands I wanted to look into is Pure White Magic (Rosa, Leonora, Porom). It costs 99MP... so I wanted to look into the details...

It casts (MP consumed normally in parenthesis):
Curaga (not Curaja) * 3 (the combined power of the three white mages) = 54MP
Blink to all characters = 40MP for 5 characters, only 24MP for the 3 required characters in the band
Haste to all characters = 125MP for 5 characters, 75MP for the bare minimum
Float to all characters = 8MP

So in order to have done this band all in a separate fashion, you would have consumed 227MP total... despite needing 297MP combined (99MP * 3 characters).
I'm surprised they didn't throw in Protect and Shell in the deal...

In any case, this was well worth it for Omega...

For Omega, all I did swap in was the Thor's Hammer and Lightning Claw. I put an Adamant Shield on Ursula for Charm resistance specifically... so basically the bulk of the damage was dealt by Ursula and Luca. The three white mages in the back row would heal or get rid of Omeguard as necessary (it's not like they hurt). I lost the first battle because I forgot to use Spider Silk... especially since the annoying beam attack is specifically 1/2 maxHP damage + Sap, which means that 2 consecutive hits is instant death (which means Curaga/Curaja healing is required immediately - Curaga is basically all you need). Note that Curaja IIRC takes more time to cast than Curaga (this might have changed in TAY, but this was standard behavior in FF4). Ursula would use Tenketsu or Attack (Tenketsu preferably) while Luca would use Big Throw or Attack, depending on the phase of the moon. This technique should simply work across the board as the requirements outside of good armor and good resistances will help out. It shouldn't need all the overpowered stuff like Crystal Rings and multiple Ribbons (or Pink Armor for that matter)... just Headbands (Confuse resistance), White/Luminous Robe (SPR Boost), Protect Rings (should have 2 at this point), Dragon Armor set (elemental resistance for Luca), Red Jacket/Red Cap (Fire), Cat Hood Ears (Ice), Mystic Veil (for SPR and INT boosts, 2 max) is all you really need. Having to juggle them is another matter altogether...

I didn't see Omeguard in action though, so I assume it was some reaction to magic attacks or something along those lines... I didn't see its "Arm" (damage+confuse) attack either. Oh well.

In any case.. the monster was harmless.

Hero Shield works exactly like it did in FF4A (GBA), outside of the modified stats (+5 all stats, 55% evasion). The bonus is the "Absorb" attribute, but it's not that useful on Cid or Luca because of their hammers... but great for the important 4.

The Lunar Mail I got was interesting to say the least. Another "vague" resistance set... which seems to include the following through testing: Paralysis, Confuse, Death, Break... all of the nasty stuff you'd find in the Depths. I read in a walkthrough that this was worse than the Crystal Mail? Have you actually seen the resistance list that the Crystal Mail provides? It's not even a half Ribbon replacement! The Lunar Mail is that and then some... (+5 STA bonus is meh).

Petal Whirlwind's description is actually in reference to Tenketsu, thus not actually referring to elemental weakness. This was tested vs the Duke Malboro (it has a Fire weakness) and was disappointed (no chance). Still, it's not a bad Band, but it's not as good compared to other better bands like Trinity Crusade.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 04:40:36 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2012, 06:03:55 PM »
I wanted to mention this.. before I continue a bit.

I explained the significance of how Izayoi benefits from the female armor combo (Mystic Veil+Fire Scarf+Protect Ring) provides really awesome protection... well, here's a few more examples.

Harley is classified as a mage/medium armor hybrid. She's able to equip all the stuff Yang and Ursula is able to equip...
So, these are your options:
Shield: Adamant (Ice)
Head: Cat Ears Hood (Ice), Red Cap (Fire), Mystic Veil (Holy), Gold Hairband (Lightning+dragon)
Armor: Pink Armor (stat resistances), Red Jacket (Fire), Sage's Robe (speed+mage resistance), Luminous Robe (undead+stat+Lightning)
Ring: not an issue :P

I haven't gotten the Robe of Lords yet to compare with.. not that it matters yet...

On this basis alone, you could equip Harley with all the elemental resistances you want (with some limitations) without using a Protect Ring... or a Ribbon for that matter...

Ursula's very similar... minus the Cat Ears Hood (for mages, not monks) and other mage equipment.. and she is a great fighter, so this is significantly more practical for her than it is Harley (Harley would benefit from a whip anyways).

The real "magician" here is Luca:

Shield: Hero (absorb), Adamant (Ice), Dragon (basic elementals+dragon resistance)
Head: Dragon (basic elemental+dragon resist), Gold Hairpin (Lightning+dragon), Mystic Veil (Holy)
Armor: Dragon (elemental+dragon), Pink Armor (status)
Ring: still not an issue

So, if you really wanted to.. Luca would suffer offensively, but be able to absorb both Holy+the other elementals w/o actually touching a Protect Ring or a Ribbon (although, not both though, same as Ursula and Harley w/o the Absorb factor).

So, it's possible to survive a Holy apocalypse with Luca and Izayoi...

Although.. I wonder if there are some Darkness elemental attacks... specifically from the GhostTrain... (as stated before, the Ebony Robe is Darkness elemental, so it's limited to Golbez for the ultimate elemental protection).

Crystal Armor set is available to all the Lunarians+Kain (I guess being a Holy Dragoon does payoff a bit)... but the Lunar Armor set is literally just for the Lunarians.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2012, 01:25:42 AM »
While trying to construct a team for Tri-Elemental Disaster, I ended up creating Team "Get A Room" (feel free to improve on this). Team consists of Edge, Rydia, Palom, Leonora, and Luca. It allows for other bands to flourish, like Flare Tornado and Inferno (although, Inferno has disappointed as of late). I could have subbed in Tsukinowa and Ceodore for Edge and Luca, and this would allow the Rapid Fire Band (Tsukinowa, Ceodore, Palom) and Thunder Wave Band (Ceodore, Rydia)... but ultimately a decent band would end up with a ninja somewhere along the line I guess.

Wild Whip combinations are tough to come by (Izayoi, Harley, Rydia)... I think I've managed to find something of worth by adding Gekkou and Edge. Healing would go through Gekkou and Izayoi's band Phantom Nightflies as it actually relies on Gekkou to take lots of damage (hint: don't give him any elemental resistances)... you will be able to get reasonable outside healing though. This will also allow you to use Edge's basic elemental attack bands with those two ninjas.

Wild Whip's damage however... leaves much to be desired... but I'm being affected by the moon (increased attack damage), but the damage bonus is 25% based on the combined effort, minus status afflictions (it doesn't seem to paralyze?) or racial modifiers (had all Dragon Whiskers) and probably not elemental modifiers either (imagine if they used the Ice/Flame/Blitz/Mist Whips together.. it would be incredible damage on a target if they were weak against one of the elementals...).

I will get around to figuring out the spell powerof Heal Pill and Heal Salve based on BSiron's fundamental healing algo ([WILL/8]+2) x ([WILL/2]+Z) where Z is the spell power of spell. Replace WILL (SPR) with INT and see what comes up...
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2012, 11:58:26 AM »
The actual damage bonus to Wild Whip is 50%... so it's kinda like automatically factoring in a critical hit or a racial modifier bonus, but applied as a collective bonus... so it's not too bad, but it's not great. For 4MP, this is worth pursuing since the cost is negligible.

I'm working on constructing a team to face off against Shinryu, and it looks like a slightly modified version of Team Ninja... it's Team Ninja Monk (with Yang, instead of Ursula). The only logistical reason for Yang was that he was lower leveled than Ursula... not that it's the sole reason, but I wanted to take a look @ Explosive Kick (Yang+Gekkou)... which was actually more impressive that I originally thought.

The most important find was able the spell power of Healing Pill and Healing Salve. It is nice though that they ignore Reflect status..

Outside of battle, Healing Pill and Healing Salve uses SPR to calculate the healing. In battle, they strictly use INT to calculate the healing. Odd, but true.

So, here's the important info:
Healing Pill: 96 (twice as powerful as Cura)
Healing Salve: 216 (50% more powerful than Curaga)

Consider this... the ninjas in general are able to do more with less... having less INT compared to the straight black magic users (probably 1/2 as much INT) but their Ninjutsu are far stronger than their black magic user counterparts.

With regards to Spirit, they grow a very low portion of it to the white magic user (about 1/4 to 1/3 less) and have their spells be proportionally stronger outside of battle.

However, the rule of thumb of Cure vs Curaja is still true... Healing Pill (6MP) will heal tons more than Healing Salve (21MP) outside of battle. If you plug in the numbers, you'll see why.

([WILL/8]+2) x ([WILL/2]+Z) = original formula

We will compare two different points... with 20 (early game) and 32 (late game) Spirit. Remember that truncation is involved (rounding down)...

Healing Pill @ 20 Spirit
((20/8)+2) * ((20/2)+96)
((2+2) * (10+96))
4 * 106 = 424

Healing Salve @ 20 Spirit
((20/8)+2)* ((20/2)+216)
((2+2) * (10+216))
4 * 226 = 904

Just on the basis alone, you can cast Healing Pill three times and easily EXCEED the cost of Healing Salve.
Note that I've always recommended Cure for out of battle healing. You'll see why in a bit...

Healing Pill @ 32 Spirit
((32/8)+2)*((32/2)+96)
((4+2)*(16+96))
6 * 112 = 672

Healing Salve @ 32 Spirit
((32/8)+2)*((32/2)+216)
((4+2)*(16+216)
6 * 232 = 1392

Self explanatory now yes?

Compare this to Cure @ 99 Spirit (Cure = 16 spell power)
((99/8)+2)*(99/2)+16)
((12+2)*(49+16))
14 * 65 = 910

For Healing Pill to reach the same level as Cure...
((X/8)+2)*((X/2)+96) = 910
Basic algebra required (distribution property)
X/16 + 12X + X + 192 = 910
13 1/16 X = 718
209X/16 = 718
X = 54 (though, you would need to round up, so 55 is more accurate here)

It's unlikely to actually get to 54 SPR though, because most of the equipment the Ninjas get don't increase SPR. You are limited to Mystic Veil (+7 SPR), Rune Armlet (+3 SPR), Talisman (+5 SPR) and maybe a few others. So at best so far, you can only get +12 SPR and according to a guide, Izayoi is capped at a raw SPR stat of 34... and that's not even looking at the fact that Healing Pill (6MP) costs twice as much MP as Cure (3MP).

It is obviously beneficial long term to boost INT on the Ninjas since the healing spells in battle scale better, but they are not really true substitutes for healing from White Mages... Curaja (40MP) @ 288 Spell Power and usually a higher SPR stat (but not as cheap as Healing Salve @ 21MP)
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2012, 10:41:49 AM »
Nova Dragon (Shinryu) is a pushover... only if you can survive the 4000+ damage Tidal Wave (which isn't elemental in the first place). So, this automatically limits the characters you can use... so the primary healer must be Rosa. Ceodore is not an acceptable alternative since you need the healing power of Curaja at work.

So, min level is 70... 75+ is probably recommended. Higher levels needed for other characters due to needing to cross the 4000HP threshold.

Characters I used and are most recommended are the following: Cecil, Kain, Rosa, Ceodore, Edge

Edge is the leadoff guy, so the best thing to do on his first turn is Spider's Silk. Otherwise you are asking for trouble.

Those characters that are listed have tons of HP (Rosa having the most of all White Magic casters), plus they have the best armor selection to face off against it. The Dragon armor set is the major reason.

The biggest nuisance is that it is resistant to Holy. Trinity Crusade unfortunately gets crippled because of that...

Effect Form is important, despite being limited to 3 characters that benefit. This is a quick way of getting Haste on all characters... Ceodore is free to caste Haste and if you feel like using the limited supply of Hermes Sandals, there you are.

Best moon phase to attack: Whatever creates White Magic+, Black Magic- (this group has no black magic, thus, all the benefits)
I faced him during the White Magic-, Special Attacks+ phase... which really annoyed me.

** = Recommended

Roles assigned to each character:
Cecil
Primary: Must use a band with another character - Sky Grinder (Kain), **Vibra Plus (Ceodore)
Secondary: Use Effect Form early, emergency item healing
Summary: Cecil's Holy weaponry is useless, and using a band avoids this issue.

Kain
Primary: Must use band with another character - Sky Grinder (Cecil), **Mirage Dive (Edge), Double Jump (Ceodore), **Cross Slash Prime (Ceodore)
Secondary: Use Effect Form early, occasional Jump when MP is depleted (ideally, not using Holy elemental weapons)
Summary:  Keep Kain alive as much as possible, you might never know when that is...

Edge (Back Row)
Primary: **Mirage Dive
Secondary: Healing (either by Ninjutsu, or items), Spider Silk, Haste (Masamune)
Summary: Edge is the fastest character (ever?), so take advantage of it. Mirage Dive applies Image to Edge, so this does help in damage reduction (unless you have Crystal Rings or Blue Armors available)

Ceodore
Primary: **Vibra Plus (Cecil), Double Jump (Kain), **Cross Slash Prime (Kain), Divine Heal (Rosa)
Secondary: Emergency Healing (Curaga), Haste
Summary: Ceodore should be a healing or attacking backbone in your fight.

Rosa
Primary: **Healing (Curaga, Curaja, Arise), Divine Heal (Ceodore)
Secondary: Haste
Summary: If you aren't at full health (at least over 4000HP), then you need to keep healing with Rosa.

The primary issue with this group is that Kain has the least MP of the group, so Cecil will need to spare a turn using Dry Ethers or Elixirs. If you are scared of your current HP situation, use a Megaelixir as needed.

The greatest "break" you get from superboss is when it uses Protect and Shell on itself. This is a great time to heal up or do what you need to it. Cross Slash Prime is a better solution for Ceodore+Kain due to MP consumption... but the best combo is really running Mirage Dive and Vibra Plus while Rosa sits back and heals. When done correctly, the final Meteor attack is actually the lamest thing that is used upon you (especially when Tidal Wave is stronger).

Shell doesn't seem to do too much in damage reduction, so just pretend it didn't happen.

Cecil has the most HP, so he should be able to survive most of the damage...

Doom isn't that big a deal.. just make sure someone that has shitty magic (Cecil/Kain) revives and another character assists in the healing Rosa (Arise), Edge (Healing Pill), Ceodore (Curaga).

Thermal Rays are overrated (Fire Scarf, Hero Shield+Dragon Armor piece should allow for great magic defense.. 2 Protect Rings should be more than enough on Rosa+Edge).

There isn't much need to substitute in this group, as I believe it is the most solid option. I'm sure there are other good combos, but this requires the fewest of levels. Using Yang or Ursula isn't a great idea since the Dragon Claw is Holy elemental, so it negates the benefits of the racial bonus.

BTW, trying to use the Thunder Claw's racial bonus on the Deathmasks is pointless. The Attack Power that is lost from using a claw is significant... especially since the damage bonus is 50%, not 300% (quadruple damage in regular FF4). The Mage Masher is still useful for that reason... leave the Claws to Yang and Ursula.

Equipment used for the battle (useful, but alternate options are fine):
Cecil:
Excalibur
Hero Shield (elemental absorption)
Dragon Helm (dragon+elemental resistances)
Lunar Mail (good status resistance)
Rare Band v2 (does it matter?)

Kain:
Wyvern Lance (optional, Holy Lance should be OK)
Dragon Shield (elemental resistance primarily, Adamant Shield is good alternative)
Ribbon (got too many, I'm not sure how many you should have at this point... maybe 2?)
Blue Armor (optional, need the racial resistance, Dragon Armor good alternative)
Treasure Hunter v2 (does it matter?)

Ceodore:
Wyvern Lance (optional, Defender should be OK)
Dragon Shield (I got too many from the drops)
Ribbon (self explanatory?)
White Robe (SPR boost for healing, Crystal Mail is a decent option)
Crystal Ring (rare drop, used specific for racial resistance)

Rosa:
Artemis Arrows (rare drop, but since she's not fighting, it is irrelevant)
Perseus's Bow (SPR boost)
Mystic Veil (Gold Hairpin is a good alternative, SPR boost vs Dragon resistance)
Pink Armor (White Robe could be used here)
Protect Ring (elemental resistances)

Edge:
Masamune (I forgot this weapon has Haste, which is very handy, will adjust the post, +3)
Rising Sun (+10 AGI, allowing Edge to be wicked fast)
Ribbon (or Red Cap, since not everyone has enough of these)
Fire Scarf (Fire elemental absorb+)
Protect Ring (self explanatory)

It's worth juggling the following equipment on Cecil, Kain, and Ceodore:
Dragon Shield (elemental resistances, Dragon resistance)
Lunar Shield (+5 AGI)
Crystal Shield (+3 SPR, Undead resistance)
Cat Ear Hood (+5 AGI bonus, Ice resistance, not for Kain)
Dragon Helm (elemental resistances, Dragon resistance)
Crystal Helm (elemental resistances, Undead resistance, +3 SPR)
Lunar Mail (status resistances)
Crystal Mail (limited status resistances, Undead resistance, +3 SPR)
Dragon Armor (elemental resistance, Dragon resistance)
Blue Armor (racial resistances, but hard to obtain)
White Robe (+10 SPR, not for Kain, Undead resistance, best for Ceodore)
Rings - Protect Ring, or whatever "relic" you think is useful, Crystal Rings are helpful, but obviously tough to obtain
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 11:04:18 AM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: FF4PSP - Journey Log
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2012, 05:25:39 PM »
Alright, I constructed a group that looks like a bunch of misfits (Golbez, Zangetsu, Tsuiknowa, Edward, Harley). It's amazing what you can learn in such a disaster.

Feast of the Land does cure Paralysis.. since I don't use it enough, I can't tell you much else.

Healing Weed also cures Paralysis.

Ultros (Orthros) must have some interesting custom messages for certain characters and character types... and I thought of...  [spoiler]tentacle sex[/spoiler]
in reference to some of what was said about Harley.

I was highly amused that Ultros was designed to retaliate to the spell caster based on what was cast. I found out by casting Firaga/Blizzaga/Thundaga from Golbez and got them sent back to Golbez... only to be humored by the fact that the Dragon Helm+Hero Shield combo covers this. I'm sure Holy is in the mix... but non elementals like Quake will have Flare as retaliation (not sure about Gale though, but probably retaliation with Flare).

The Ghost Train is interesting in the aspect that it does not fight, but relies on its Wheel (monster magic) attack to deal damage. Instead of what one could consider doing before the Scarmaglion Undead version Mt. Ordeals (switch rows before battle), the characters in the front row should actually be able to do some sort of attack from the back row, whether that be Jump/Big Throw (Kain, Zangetsu, Luca) or magic (Golbez, Edge, even Ceodore). Wheel is designed to punish you from changing rows, so damage is dealt based on what row you are in... so the characters in the back row take twice as much damage as those in the front row. Holy is just there to screw with you. Wheel is most definitely a custom spell based on the monster's attack power or something along those lines...

I learned a lot from Atomos... Meteor...

Meteor still has a spell power of 800. I did actually fight him on a moon phase that reduces black magic (25% reduction in spell power or damage... I'm learning towards the latter a bit). However, if you look at the bosses that use them, their magic stat is really high.. but the damage seems rather low.... so this spell was redone.

The spell itself does NOT use split damage, despite targeting all monsters like Quake. So, take a look at Atomos or the Nova Dragon's magic stat. Divide their magic stat by 5... and then you will get the spell multiplier that looks like what is normally expected. The math is consistent with the newfound behavior. It is actually a VERY bad idea to not have all the characters possible on the field... and it is WORSE if any of them are dead. This increases the power of Meteor significantly (because you would split between 4 or less characters) and nothing good comes out of that. I'm sure Meteor works the same way vs multiple monsters...

Shell... it does work... against Meteor (and the like, but not Wheel due to algo changes or something). The spell is cumulative and reduces the damage INTAKE by 1/8. It is capped @ 4 times so damage reduction can be maxed out at 1/2 tops. So Meteor can be dealing effectively with a spell power of 400 (like a multi-Flare)... but that doesn't really absolve you of having high magic evasion to actually reduce magic damage in general.

Under this new understanding, Protect works the same way... 1/8 damage reduction, cumulative with 4 casts to 1/2 physical damage reduction (it didn't affect the monster spell Wheel either).

Note that the moon phases will screw with the numbers, and that not all spell or physical damage will look like you're not gaining the benefits from Protect and Shell... it's just not the cureall for bad equipment or bad evasion/magic evasion or bad defense/magic defense.

BTW if I hadn't mentioned this year... Rydia is an AWESOME black hole for spells.

Wheel is literally a weaker version of the Antlion's Horn (or whatever it was called) attack... Attack * Spell Multiplier (spell multiplier of the Ghost Train is 11) * row (1 if front, 2 if back).
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 06:24:27 PM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »
« previous next »