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Print Page - Item descriptions
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Library of the Ancients => Final Fantasy IV Research & Development => Topic started by: Dragonsbrethren on January 24, 2013, 09:33:46 AM
Title: Item descriptions
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on January 24, 2013, 09:33:46 AM
Turns out item descriptions are a simple range check and subtraction. The reason the "Caller's Magic Orb" description isn't shown? They test if the item value is less than $E7, not $EB.
$01/A7D4 BF 00 00 0F LDA $0F0000,xBank to load the item descriptions from.
So yeah, simple stuff, explains how J2e was able to give everything descriptions in their translation. I always assumed it would be more involved. They still did more work on top of that (their description hack uses a pointer table and supports using positioning on the string. This supports it too, but $00 will cause the string to terminate, which isn't an issue in J2e's hack.)
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 01:16:42 PM
This would be a nice patch fix for the bug...
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 24, 2013, 01:19:22 PM
Wow this is great! I would love for there to be space to allocate for the entire gambit of items. however what you have here looks really good on its own.
Great work Dragonsbrethren!
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on January 24, 2013, 01:37:35 PM
Wow this is great! I would love for there to be space to allocate for the entire gambit of items. however what you have here looks really good on its own.
There probably is enough space, provided you don't go overboard with unique descriptions. If I ever work on another large scale project, I'd probably rewrite the routine entirely (not to the extent J2e did, which was overkill) to read the description table for every item but compare the description byte to $00, using that to bypass drawing rather than limiting it to a certain range. (A combination of both could work too, but would take more space.)
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 24, 2013, 01:52:23 PM
I don't believe in releasing one byte patches, sorry.
Sometimes the great fixes are simply just that... one byte.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on August 27, 2013, 08:01:12 PM
I posted this on TCRF but never bothered here. Here are GameGenie codes for the fix:
38C3-AFA9: FF4/Easy 38C8-A7A9: FF2
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Grimoire LD on August 27, 2013, 08:04:26 PM
I completely forgot about this, (despite posting on it a while back), that seems like a very easy thing to incorporate into the editor I would imagine and would love to see that done. Granted it is easy enough to go into hex to change it, but everything's easier with an editor, haha.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on August 27, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
I'm still thinking about doing that all items expansion patch, I've got a bit of a prototype here. If I do, maybe Pinkpuff will be willing to detect it and integrate expanded description assignments into the editor.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Grimoire LD on August 27, 2013, 08:16:39 PM
Now that you mention it, that's some of the only text the editor can't edit at the moment, isn't it? Things like "Caller's Orb" aren't in the editor, or aren't anymore (I swear they used to be...?). Though yes, having items descriptions for everything would lend itself to a creative flair in describing the weapons.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on August 27, 2013, 08:26:30 PM
I thought descriptions were in too, but it looks like you're right. They're really simple to edit, there's a table of one byte assignments which correspond to the string number. I know one of Zyrthofar's editors can do them.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Pinkpuff on March 21, 2014, 12:19:01 PM
What would be the offsets for these locations in ROM (headered)?
:edit: Never mind I figured them out myself.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 13, 2016, 08:36:54 PM
I know I'm necroposting this, but was this ever implemented into FF4kster?
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 14, 2016, 11:30:08 AM
I meant to respond to your comment on the ff4kster thread, but I think I forgot to hit send.
You can have and edit as many as 60 item descriptions in the Messages editor, but be aware that the amount of space devoted to them is miniscule (probably originally just needed a few kanji per description in FFIVJ).
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on July 14, 2016, 12:28:31 PM
I meant to respond to your comment on the ff4kster thread, but I think I forgot to hit send.
You can have and edit as many as 60 item descriptions in the Messages editor, but be aware that the amount of space devoted to them is miniscule (probably originally just needed a few kanji per description in FFIVJ).
You can also use squishtiles AND icons (if placed in the blank area of the font graphics) to save space.
Example: in my hack I switched up the status healing around so just 3 items take care of the whole spectrum. One of them heals basic things like Poison/Mute/Blind, so I copy n pasted said icons to some blank space in the font so the item description reads, "Cures (poisoned icon) (Mute Icon) (Blind Icon).
Just DON'T EVER PUT A SQUISHTILE OR ICON ON VALUE A4 OF THE FONT!! As far as I've seen that's the only value that'll really mess anything up in the editor.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 14, 2016, 09:53:20 PM
That's fine but I'm more so looking at item descriptions for the items that were once dummied content. The one guy on RHDN with the patching issue didn't know what a Red Fang was.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 15, 2016, 08:26:10 AM
Well, for the record, he wouldn't have had the opportunity to reward that item description before Cecil uses it on the FloatEyes anyway. But you could make an item description that says "elemental damage to all enemies" that could apply to all three of those. Or you could say just "elemental damage" and it could apply to even more previously dummied items. You could likewise say "heals status ailment" for all the maidens kiss/eyedrop/echo screen/etc items. Just a couple of suggestions to deal with the space constraints there.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 18, 2016, 11:58:41 PM
Thanks to Bahamut Zero, I figured out how to open up the descriptions in FF4kster, but now space is a major issue. There is almost no space in the item message bank to fit anything. Like you said chillyfeez, it might be better to apply simple descriptions but there's barely any room at all!
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 19, 2016, 01:13:11 AM
It would probably be pretty easy for me to relocate the item description bank to a larger empty space in ROM, but then you'd have to do all of the text edits in a hex editor - it would make it so FF4kster wouldn't be able to find them. It would also make assigning the descriptions to items difficult, as FF4kster wouldn't be able to find them for that purpose, either. Still if you want, I could give it a go...
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 19, 2016, 07:49:28 AM
Like you said, assigning them would be the difficult part. But once assigned, it's just a matter of editing them. It would also mean I could clarify items that are similar Potion and Hi-Potion can be specific. As long as I have the room to work with I'm cool with that.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 19, 2016, 08:58:45 AM
What we could do is...
1) You go through Namingway Edition in FF4kster and assign descriptions to the items without writing the full descriptions - i.e., just write "1," "2," "3," etc.
2) I'll multiply the maximum number of characters allowed in the item description window by the amount of item descriptions you need altogether (probably still a maximum of 60), and find an empty area in ROM with that much space, then manipulate the assembly to relocate the bank there.
3) Then you could go in and write out the descriptions in the order already assigned in step 1. What I would do to un-complicate the process (as long as I can find a large enough space, which I should be able to do, I think) is give that maximum amount of space to each description, so when you're actually writing them out, you would just fill the end of each description with spaces. e.g. If the item descriptions were allowed to be 35 characters long, you could write for the cure1 potion, "Restores(sp)a(sp)small(sp)amount(sp)of(sp)HP.(sp)(sp)(sp)(sp)(sp)"
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 19, 2016, 06:46:44 PM
That will work. I can get started on assigning them and I'll send them your way. The only thing I'm concerned about is the max number of characters actually available in the various menus.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 19, 2016, 09:13:17 PM
Various menus? Do item descriptions appear in more places than the basic item selection screen?
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 19, 2016, 09:20:34 PM
Sorry, poor choice of words. What I meant is that the item descriptions I believe only have enough room for 19 characters across in the description and its only one line across. That should be enough room for a basic enough description even if we are expanding the bank used for items.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 20, 2016, 01:01:55 AM
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, that's not very much space at all, is it...
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 21, 2016, 12:40:04 PM
Good news! You're gonna have 57 characters to work with instead of 19. ... Provided I can find an empty bank of ROM that is 57 x (# of item descriptions needed) bytes long, anyway. (http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/22/01/115500122/photos/expanded-item-descriptions/Final%20Fantasy%20II000.png)
:edit: So there definitely isn't an empty bank that is 3600 bytes long, which is what would be needed to accommodate 60 descriptions using the method I had originally planned. But I did discover that the method by which the messages are indexed is much simpler than I had originally anticipated, so unless you make sixty descriptions that literally use 57 characters each, a bank that large won't be necessary.
What you should do is, assign the descriptions as planned, then practice-write them out to determine how many characters will be used (still using 19 characters per line, but up to three lines per description), then add 3x(number of descriptions) to that total. That will be the size of the empty bank I'll need to use for this little project.
So, for example, if you end up needing 40 unique descriptions, and altogether (including spaces) those descriptions take up 2000 characters, the size of the empty bank I'd need would be 2120 bytes. That's still a lot, but there is at least one empty bank in ROM that size (I checked).
Did that all make sense?
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 21, 2016, 05:14:37 PM
Wow, just wow! I just finished assigning every item the number (1,2,3,etc) the description needed. 57 characters is a lot to work with indeed. I'll type out what I need to say for each one so that I can tell you how much space I need. Because of the limit of 60 items having descriptions, I'm using the same description for the Summoner's Orbs. That will end up with 59 unique descriptions total. I'm going to PM you the ROM that I have ready for now.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 24, 2016, 04:08:47 PM
So I got it working, and it works like a charm... except... It breaks FF4kster compatability. I did some research and was able to pinpoint exactly what change I made that causes the trouble. The bad news is, it's unavoidable. The good news is, I can put together a workaround. It'll be a small pain in the ass, but it will enable you to have long item descriptions and still edit other aspects of the game in FF4kster.
I'll probably have everything all set by tomorrow. Tuesday at the latest.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: dn on July 25, 2016, 12:46:51 AM
Question: What is preventing us from expanding the ROM, as we have FFVI?
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 25, 2016, 08:35:54 AM
Question: What is preventing us from expanding the ROM, as we have FFVI?
FF4kster. It won't load a ROM that isn't 1000000(h) or 1000200(h) bytes. My understanding is that that's how Pinkpuff programmed it to tell the difference between a headered and an unheadered ROM. It makes so many other editing tasks to convenient, though, that in most cases I'm willing to gfo to extreme measures to maintain FF4kster compatability.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: dn on July 25, 2016, 08:42:56 AM
Had a suspicion it was that.
Unfortunately, changing it to check for 1, 2, 3, and 4MB files is probably not happening. It'd require a few extra checks and a minimum of code, I imagine, but I don't think pinkpuff is working on it anymore.
The game is so tight on space though that expansion is basically unavoidable if you want to do much.
Thinking . . .
In the short term, at least, as long as all you're expanding is text and assembly, you could probably do some rom swapping and data cut/paste to make it work. Trying to think of how it would be done though. Any map expansion though would likely become problematic unless 4kster were modified to work with it.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 25, 2016, 09:07:32 AM
There's actually plenty of map space - for locations, anyway - as long as you build intelligently. One great thing FF4kster does is automatically consolidate data banks like maps after you make edits. It even tells you how many free bytes of map space you have left.
The only aspects I've found that would benefit from expansion would be text and monster graphics really (as in, adding new images to the existing list). I mean, expansion might come in handy for other things, too (like, say, having more than 255 events), but doing so would require ROM expansion in addition to significant assembly manipulation.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 25, 2016, 05:36:51 PM
Hopefully you can get it working. Awesome work as always, chillyfeez.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 25, 2016, 06:45:57 PM
As a matter of fact, I had an epiphany about it that made things far less complicated. So here it is!
To use: 1) apply the patch to unheadered ROM (this is intended to work with Namingway Edition, but should be OK with vanilla FFIV, too. For other projects, check with me first so I can advise about where you should have free space before using this patch) 2) don't ever use the item description editor in FF4kster ever ever again (I can't promise you that doing so won't mess the whole thing up - it will be fine still if you make other changes to the ROM with FF4kster) 3) your item description bank will now be located at 6E818 in ROM (DE818 in LoROM). The first two bytes there should be FF 00. Leave those two bytes alone. Everything else after that (I put in some numbers just as an example) can be overwritten. 4) Each item description can have up to Three lines, with 19 characters (including spaces) per line. Squish tiles and symbols are all OK to use. DTE will not work. Use 01 for a line break. Put 00 at the end of each description.
And there you have it!
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: Rodimus Primal on July 25, 2016, 07:34:30 PM
Excellent. So don't use the message editor section for Items. But what about setting the items to their proper messages so that everything lines up properly? In FF4kster, you can tell the items what message to use if you have it set up properly. I know you asked me to do so for it to work with Namingway Edition, but if you're giving this IPS out I'm just making sure.
Title: Re: Item descriptions
Post by: chillyfeez on July 25, 2016, 08:43:09 PM
Right. Yeah. Good call.
If applying this patch to any ROM that isn't Namingway Edition... Before applying the patch, open your ROM in FF4kster and change all of the item descriptions to "1, 2, 3...60" (there are 60 altogether). Then, assign them all to the items in order, beginning with the bomb fragment (item B0) (weapons and armor can't have descriptions). After saving those changes, then apply the patch. Then never use the item description editor in FF4kster ever ever again. :wink: