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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2008, 10:55:01 PM »
Okay, I was going to post a list of suggestions, but I'll wait to see what you have already.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2008, 10:56:33 PM »
You can go ahead first, I'm still pondering the details.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2008, 04:09:38 PM »
Ok, I'll do them in sections, since that's how it's primarily done in the ROM, and it will make it easier to manage... these are explicitly changes to the weapons+armors.. w/o changing that much...

Rod, Hit Rate 50%
IceRod, Hit Rate 50%
FlameRod, Hit Rate 55%, Effective against Undead
Thunder Rod, Hit Rate 60%, Effective against Machines
Change Rod, Hit Rate 66%, Inflicts Mini status
Charm Rod, Hit Rate 66%, Casts "Bio", Inflicts Charm, Effective against Giants... I don't understand why a white magic spell is available for a Black Mage/Wizard's Rod...
Stardust Rod, Hit Rate 72%, Casts "Flare", Spell Multiplier = 3
Lilith Rod, 40 Attack Power, 70% Hit Rate, Effective against Giants, Flan, "Undead"

Staff, Hit Rate 50%, Casts "Peep", Effective Against Undead, Spirits
Cure Staff, Hit Rate 55%, Effective Against Spirits
Silver Staff, Hit Rate 60%, Casts "Esuna"
Power Staff, Casts "Berserk"
Lunar Staff, Hit Rate 66%, Casts "Blink"
Life Staff, Hit Rate 72%, Casts "Holy", Spell Multiplier = 3 or 4
Silence Staff, Hit Rate, 66%, Casts "Cure3", Spell Multiplier = 8

Darkness Sword, Inflicts Blind

Ancient Sword, 45 Attack Power
Medusa Sword, Inflicts Stone, Effective against Reptiles

Whip, Ice Elemental, Inflicts Paralyze, Effective against Reptiles
Chain Whip, Effective against Mages
Blitz Whip, Effective against Machines
Flame Whip, Effective against Undead, Casts "Fire3", Spell Multiplier = 4

Dwarf Axe, 70 Attack Power, Wind Elemental, +5 Str, Vit, Will, -5 Agi, Wis
Ogre Axe, 69% Hit Rate

Silver Knife, Effective against Undead (not Spirits)
Silver Sword, Effective against Undead (not Spirits),

Shuriken, Equippable by Edge, Consumable
Ninja Shuriken, Equippable by Edge, 60 Attack Power, Consumable

Poison Axe,  105 Attack Power, 60% Hit Rate, Effective against Dragons
Rune Axe, Inflicts Silence, 120 Attack Power, Casts "Cure4", Spell Multiplier = 8

Silver Hammer, Effective against Undead
Wooden Hammer, Casts "Lit-2", Spell Multiplier = 4

ShortBow, 50% Hit Rate
CrossBow, 55% Hit Rate
GreatBow, 60% Hit Rate
Archer Bow, 65% Hit Rate
ElvenBow, 80% Hit Rate
Samurai Bow, 70% Hit Rate, Effective against Giants
Artemis Bow, 75% Hit Rate, Effective against Dragons

Fire Arrow, 20 Attack Power
Ice Arrow, 20 Attack Power
Lit Arrow, 20 Attack Power
Darkness Arrow, 25 Attack Power, Inflicts Blind, Curse
Poison Arrow, Effective against Reptiles
Mute Arrow, Effective against Machines (not Mages)
Samurai Arrow, Effective against Flan
Medusa Arrow, Effective against Reptiles

Iron Shield, Resistant against Flan
Paladin Shield, Resistant against Spirits
Silver Shield, Resistant against Undead
Fire Shield, Resistant against Flan
Diamond Shield, Resistant against Machines
Samurai Shield, Resistant against Giants, considered adding a +3 bonus to something (probably Agi)

Paladin Helmet, Resistant against Spirits
Silver Helmet, Resistant against Undead
Samurai Helmet, Resistant against Giants, +3 Wis

Ninja Hat, Immune to Sleep, Paralysis
Glass Mask, 20 (or higher?) Magic Defense

Paladin Armor, Resistant against Spirits
Silver Armor, Resistant against Undead
Samurai Armor, Resistant against Giants, +3 Str, Vit
Crystal Armor, change Berserk resistance to Charm resistance

Power Robe, 20% Evade, 7 Magic Defense, 7% Magic Evade, +10 Str, Agi, Vit, Wis Considered making it equippable only by the girls

Paladin Gauntlet, Resistant against Spirits
Silver Gauntlet, Resistant against Undead
Samurai Gauntlet, Resistant against Giants, +3 Wis, Will
Dragoon Gauntlet, Edge can equip this

RubyRing, Immune to Piggy, Mini, Toad
Diamond Ring, Resistant to Machines
Protect Ring, Resistant to Holy, Darkness
Cursed Ring, +10 Str, Vit, -10 Agi, Wis, Will, Resistant vs all races


 :edit: Should be nearly complete...
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 09:47:54 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Pinkpuff

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2008, 06:24:34 PM »
Would you be changing the names of some of the equipment perhaps?

It might be confusing for players if they get an item called "Silence Staff" that neither inflicts nor casts silence, neither is it effective against mages. Likewise for "Charm Rod" since it neither inflicts nor casts charm.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2008, 07:05:04 PM »
I was intending to not rename any of the weapons...
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2008, 08:30:44 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 22, 2008, 07:05:04 PM
I was intending to not rename any of the weapons...

I suggest you do so, because some of these changes will be very confusing without new names. You covered everything I was going to suggest, I didn't get around to typing out a list last night.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2008, 08:39:58 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on December 22, 2008, 08:30:44 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 22, 2008, 07:05:04 PM
I was intending to not rename any of the weapons...

I suggest you do so, because some of these changes will be very confusing without new names. You covered everything I was going to suggest, I didn't get around to typing out a list last night.

I'm against it only because if I do make those changes, it won't apply well against FF4ET or FF4 (with J2e's translation)...

It'll probably be limited a smaller subset I guess (the hack was meant for all SNES versions).
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2008, 09:09:28 PM »
You'll just have to make multiple patches if you want it compatible with multiple versions. The FF2us patch will work fine with all English versions, J2e stores their old item names there (which are still used when stealing an item, strangely) and both versions of my Easy Type translation left the short names there IIRC. That means you'll just have to make a patch for the longer names used in J2e's translation and my new Easy Type translation (which is an alpha, and I wouldn't even bother with it, the FF2*is*ET patch is better for playing and only uses the short names).
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2008, 09:35:25 PM »
Well, that's going to suck. I'll have to not rename the stuff then... it's not worth the effort. I'm better off writing a list of changes instead.
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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2008, 09:48:45 PM »
No, you're better off changing the names. I'm certainly not going to consult a guide every time I want to see what something does, and I doubt anyone else wants to. If making two patches bothers you that much, just make it FF2us compatible and be done with it.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2008, 10:04:39 PM »
The point of the changes are to encompass three things..

1) Reinstate some of the existing features that went unused... (well, mainly just weapon/armor properties)
2) Give rare equipment drops a useful purpose. Why go to the effort into obtaining them in the first place if they suck?
3) Give common equipment a reason to keep around longer. I've stopped using certain weapons and armor altogether because they aren't worth keeping around or worth paying for.

The changes in general should primarily reinforce that you have good options, not overwhelmingly better equipment to strictly use. Additionally, those weapons that have spells need to actually be worth using. I don't find myself using the Silence Staff for casting free Mute for instance.

Effectively, there should be no need for renaming. There isn't anything radical done AFAIK for some of the equipment (and I'm rethinking the details of existing stuff). If you think something needs renaming, tell me why, so I can see what I can do to address that seamlessly (so the name change isn't as warrented).

The results of the changes should accomplish the following..

1) Underpowered stuff are useful again, but not become overpowered..
2) In the situations you would normally obtain the equipment, they would be nice options now or in the near future.
3) You have second thoughts about choosing one piece of equipment over the other because of the benefits.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 10:28:10 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Pinkpuff

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2008, 08:52:04 AM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 22, 2008, 10:04:39 PM
If you think something needs renaming, tell me why, so I can see what I can do to address that seamlessly (so the name change isn't as warrented).

Sure:

When I see a weapon called "Charm Rod" I think to myself, "Wow, this weapon has something to do with the charm status. Perhaps it inflicts charm when I hit with it... or perhaps it will cast the Charm spell when I use it as an item." I don't think "Wow, 'Charm Rod', this weapon must have something to do with poison. Maybe it inflicts poison when I attack with it or casts Bio when I use it as an item. That would explain why it's called 'Charm Rod'."

Likewise when I see a weapon called "Silence Staff" I think to myself, "Wow, this weapon has something to do with silence. Maybe it inflicts silence status when I hit with it, or maybe it casts the Silence spell... or maybe it just deals more damage to mages." I don't think "Wow, 'Silence Staff', this must have something to do with healing my party. That would explain why it's called 'Silence Staff'."

You don't even have to call them "Poison Rod" or "Bio Rod" or "Curing Staff" if you don't want to, they can be generic names that don't imply anything particular, but definitely leaving them as "Charm Rod" and "Silence Staff", at least the way you've described the changes to them, is comparable to calling the Charm Harp "Darkness Harp".

You were actually the one who pointed out to me the importance of weapons' names having something to do with their effects, when you critiqued my FF1 hack:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on June 15, 2008, 06:14:15 PM
Don't call it "Venom Axe" if it doesn't have Bio in it.  :tongue: Consider a Rune Axe that kills mages? Try a different common FF series axe name...
Don't call it "Defender" if it doesn't provide a defensive benefit... names are semi-important because it implies certain characteristics of the weapon more often than not...

(emphasis mine)

 :edit: Ok I see you've changed the Charm Rod to actually inflict Charm status; last time I looked at it, it still said Poison. But the Silence Staff is still pretty misleading.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2008, 12:48:44 PM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on December 23, 2008, 08:52:04 AM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 22, 2008, 10:04:39 PM
If you think something needs renaming, tell me why, so I can see what I can do to address that seamlessly (so the name change isn't as warrented).

Sure:

When I see a weapon called "Charm Rod" I think to myself, "Wow, this weapon has something to do with the charm status. Perhaps it inflicts charm when I hit with it... or perhaps it will cast the Charm spell when I use it as an item." I don't think "Wow, 'Charm Rod', this weapon must have something to do with poison. Maybe it inflicts poison when I attack with it or casts Bio when I use it as an item. That would explain why it's called 'Charm Rod'."

Likewise when I see a weapon called "Silence Staff" I think to myself, "Wow, this weapon has something to do with silence. Maybe it inflicts silence status when I hit with it, or maybe it casts the Silence spell... or maybe it just deals more damage to mages." I don't think "Wow, 'Silence Staff', this must have something to do with healing my party. That would explain why it's called 'Silence Staff'."

You don't even have to call them "Poison Rod" or "Bio Rod" or "Curing Staff" if you don't want to, they can be generic names that don't imply anything particular, but definitely leaving them as "Charm Rod" and "Silence Staff", at least the way you've described the changes to them, is comparable to calling the Charm Harp "Darkness Harp".

You were actually the one who pointed out to me the importance of weapons' names having something to do with their effects, when you critiqued my FF1 hack:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on June 15, 2008, 06:14:15 PM
Don't call it "Venom Axe" if it doesn't have Bio in it.  :tongue: Consider a Rune Axe that kills mages? Try a different common FF series axe name...
Don't call it "Defender" if it doesn't provide a defensive benefit... names are semi-important because it implies certain characteristics of the weapon more often than not...

(emphasis mine)

 :edit: Ok I see you've changed the Charm Rod to actually inflict Charm status; last time I looked at it, it still said Poison. But the Silence Staff is still pretty misleading.

Silence Staff does continue to inflict Silence status as a physical attack. I tend to lean towards the original FF4 naming a little (so Fairy Rod is a little less vague even though Charm is generally associated with that), but also some of the FF series behavior (the Rune set of equipment from FF1A's healing matches up better IMO than casting a cheap free Mute). In other words, the secondary effect (well, the weapon spell) is up for game.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2008, 02:52:58 PM »
Oh ok cool. In that case I have no further problem with the names.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2US - Weapon-Item Magic Restoration Patch
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2008, 09:38:15 PM »
I've never liked the Charm Rod.. since Charm is a relatively easy to inflict status than say the Change Rod.. and I've never understood a White Magic spell being applied to a Rod (I think FF6 makes an exception, but then again they screwed up the Heal Rod's targeting, but that's besides the point).

The Silence Staff still inflicts Silence status... it only casts something different (akin FF1A's Rune Staff).

 :edit:
I think I'm nearly done with the changes... I do need some critques of three critical pieces of armor...

Glass Mask - I was thinking of upping the magic defense to about 30 to reduce the impact of Heat Ray (regardless of the additional help of a Protect Ring)

Power Robe - I originally thought it should be +15 to Str, Agi, Vit, but I've changed that to +10 Str, Agi, Vit, Will.. I'd like to know of the changes are sane... the reason I say this is because it affects Rosa the most (and Rydia to a lesser extent). For your reference, the Heroine Robe in FF4ET is a little different (+10 Str, Agi, Vit, instead of the normal +15 Str, Agi, Vit, -15 Wis, Will)

Cursed Ring - I was thinking of changing the bonuses back into penalties... the only reason you are getting bonuses is to give the equipment  "some" use to Dark Knight Cecil instead of no use at all.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 10:14:21 PM by Deathlike2 »
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