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Lenophis

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FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« on: August 19, 2008, 12:55:03 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 12:48:27 PM
Gogo - I cannot live w/o the Steal command
Really? Locke isn't recruited, so steal shouldn't be available to you. I get Locke very early because he's one of my best overall fighters, and any level re-averaging sucks. One party of Terra, Sabin, Celes, and Edgar and another party of Mog = massively beaten Phoenix Cave. :happy:

I also get Mog pretty quickly because the Moogle's Charm is really helpful in areas annoying to clean out (Kefka's Tower, Cultists' Tower, etc).
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 12:58:15 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on August 19, 2008, 12:55:03 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 12:48:27 PM
Gogo - I cannot live w/o the Steal command
Really? Locke isn't recruited, so steal shouldn't be available to you. I get Locke very early because he's one of my best overall fighters, and any level re-averaging sucks. One party of Terra, Sabin, Celes, and Edgar and another party of Mog = massively beaten Phoenix Cave. :happy:

I also get Mog pretty quickly because the Moogle's Charm is really helpful in areas annoying to clean out (Kefka's Tower, Cultists' Tower, etc).

What does recruiting have anything to do with Gogo's command list? It has absolutely zero impact. I would've thought you knew this.
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Lenophis

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 01:02:12 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 12:58:15 PM
What does recruiting have anything to do with Gogo's command list? It has absolutely zero impact. I would've thought you knew this.
I read somewhere that the characters you get means Gogo gets their commands added to his list. I'll do some inspecting, and see what turns up.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 01:08:52 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on August 19, 2008, 01:02:12 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 12:58:15 PM
What does recruiting have anything to do with Gogo's command list? It has absolutely zero impact. I would've thought you knew this.
I read somewhere that the characters you get means Gogo gets their commands added to his list. I'll do some inspecting, and see what turns up.

This is true, but I think it has to do moreso with how his list is initiated. Once a character is introduced, their command set is probably added to the list. It is added in the order that the characters are listed in. I suggest you take a look at Gogo's full command list. Take a look at how it matches up with the characters you get in the order is it stored internally.

In the WOR, getting characters back has nothing to do with how Gogo's list is created.

 :edit:

Here's a frame of reference...

FF6 using RPGOne''s translation:


An old FF3USHT completed game:


Take a look at where those commands are gathered, and from the characters these come from... the correlation is obvious (this I realized minutes ago believe it or not).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 01:38:09 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Lenophis

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 01:41:40 PM »
Ok, I do know that there is something funky going on. Throw is supposed to be the command with Gogo's screwed up portrait. There must be data for this, so where is this data?
* Lenophis looks in JCE's general direction
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 01:46:01 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on August 19, 2008, 01:41:40 PM
Ok, I do know that there is something funky going on. Throw is supposed to be the command with Gogo's screwed up portrait. There must be data for this, so where is this data?
* Lenophis looks in JCE's general direction

Do I have to spell it out?

Although, the issue is with how the window is rendered, it's not tied to the command.. just its location on the command menu.
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JCE3000GT

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 02:06:36 PM »
Hehe.   :xzone:
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 02:25:14 PM »
I'm writing this out mainly to remove it from the other thread (since it's there for a different purpose  :tongue:)

Feel free to split and merge threads as appropriate..

Anyways.. this is how Gogo's command screen operates as far as I can tell (I could be totally wrong, and if it's documented elsewhere, then  :bah:)

There has to be some command array that stores all the commands Gogo has available...

Initially, this array has Blank (command removal), Fight, Magic, and Item in it.

Then, it traverses through everyone's command list, from Locke to Gau, skipping Terra. The only reason to skip Terra is to avoid adding Morph to the command list (so Gogo can't use it).
It goes in order..
Locke
Cyan
Shadow (there's probably a bit to check to see if Shadow didn't survive)
Edgar
Sabin
Celes
Strago
Relm
Setzer
Mog
Gau

Commands to be added are checked against the existing command array (to avoid duplication). The only commands that are not added probably includes Leap (and maybe more).

I honestly don't know why Rage doesn't appear in the screenshot.. other than the fact that the list has a visual limit... the reason why I say this is because of Lenophis's old FF3 hack..

Gau's revised command list:


Complete command list:


So, there's a limit as far as I can tell to the command list.... I could be wrong.

Anyways, that all I know. Obviously the commands added to the list do not include those modified by equipment (Capture, Control, X-Magic, GP Rain).
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 02:27:38 PM »
Quote from: JCE3000GT on August 19, 2008, 02:06:36 PM
Hehe.   :xzone:

Now that I think about it, I liked FF5's X-Zone better...  :tongue:

Anyways, it would be appreciated if the discussion (and some of the posts) should be moved here to keep this thread on topic:
http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=734.0
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Lenophis

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 02:32:51 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 01:08:52 PM
This is true, but I think it has to do moreso with how his list is initiated. Once a character is introduced, their command set is probably added to the list.
The order is Terra, Locke, Edgar, Sabin, (then it's out of order because of the scenarios, since it's between Cyan, Gau, and Celes), Setzer, Shadow (he is forced on you when you leave for Thamasa), Strago, then Relm. Mog, Gogo, and Umaro are never forced on you.

Quote
It is added in the order that the characters are listed in. I suggest you take a look at Gogo's full command list.
I have, several times.

Quote
Take a look at how it matches up with the characters you get in the order is it stored internally.
Based on this statement, there should be some variance in that menu based on when you recruited everybody. However, going back to this:

Quote
It is added in the order that the characters are listed in. I suggest you take a look at Gogo's full command list.
The order is always Fight/Jump, Item, Magic/X-Magic, Steal/Capture, SwdTech, Throw, Tools, Blitz, Runic, Lore, Sketch/Control, Slot/Gil Toss, Dance, and Rage.

And for reference, character ID's are as follows:
Terra - 0
Locke - 1
Cyan - 2
Shadow - 3
Edgar - 4
Sabin - 5
Celes - 6
Strago - 7
Relm - 8
Setzer - 9
Mog - 10
Gau - 11
Gogo - 12
Umaro - 13

Aside from the commands everybody gets (Magic and Item), the list follows that order. However, some commands are excluded (Morph, Revert, and Leap).

Now, going back to my thought in my previous post...

Quote
An old FF3USHT completed game:
This list is severely out of order to what it should be.

That's what drew this:

Quote
Ok, I do know that there is something funky going on. Throw is supposed to be the command with Gogo's screwed up portrait. There must be data for this, so where is this data?

To which you made a snarky reply:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 01:46:01 PM
Do I have to spell it out?
I fully understood what you said previously.

I'll state my question again. There has to be some data controlling it, since I haven't found any code yet excluding commands or determining the order for it. Where is it?
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 03:06:21 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on August 19, 2008, 02:32:51 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 01:08:52 PM
This is true, but I think it has to do moreso with how his list is initiated. Once a character is introduced, their command set is probably added to the list.
The order is Terra, Locke, Edgar, Sabin, (then it's out of order because of the scenarios, since it's between Cyan, Gau, and Celes), Setzer, Shadow (he is forced on you when you leave for Thamasa), Strago, then Relm. Mog, Gogo, and Umaro are never forced on you.

I started to amend my state later in the original post (mind drifting often is not a good sign for me).

Quote
Aside from the commands everybody gets (Magic and Item), the list follows that order. However, some commands are excluded (Morph, Revert, and Leap).

While I was writing that, I was trying to figure out which commands never show up.. (thanks to the guy who made the "Select Any Command" hack)

This includes..
Morph
Revert
Leap
Health
Shock
Row
Def.
Mimic
Magitek

Quote
Now, going back to my thought in my previous post...

Quote
An old FF3USHT completed game:
This list is severely out of order to what it should be.

That's what drew this:

Quote
Ok, I do know that there is something funky going on. Throw is supposed to be the command with Gogo's screwed up portrait. There must be data for this, so where is this data?

To which you made a snarky reply:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 01:46:01 PM
Do I have to spell it out?
I fully understood what you said previously.

I'll state my question again. There has to be some data controlling it, since I haven't found any code yet excluding commands or determining the order for it. Where is it?

My reply was I thought you didn't understand how Gogo's command list was derived from. My fault there. AFAIK, there's a fix for the Yellow Streak bug, but I totally forgot who was responsible for that....

Found it... http://www14.brinkster.com/assassin17/patches.htm#anchor21

 :edit:
Rereading your post.. I have no idea where the code that controls his command list comes from.

 :edit:
Ok.. now I understand it better.

Playing around with the hack further... the whole command list is added one by one from each character, including Terra. There's a list of exceptions which aren't included (already listed)... this list also factors in Umaro's command list as well (yes, even for the uncommandable wonder), though I don't know if there are additional commands on other characters are made (Banon, Leo, etc.).

I'm kinda sure they aren't made on the Moogles themselves (JCE game them all the Dance command and that doesn't show up on Gogo's list anyways).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 03:23:08 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Lenophis

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 03:15:04 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 03:06:21 PM
I started to amend my state later in the original post (mind drifting often is not a good sign for me).
I think both of us were bitten by that. :isuck:

Quote
While I was writing that, I was trying to figure out which commands never show up.. (thanks to the guy who made the "Select Any Command" hack)

This includes..
Morph
Revert
Leap
Health
Shock
Row
Def.
Mimic
Magitek
:eek: And where is this patch?

Quote
My reply was I thought you didn't understand how Gogo's command list was derived from. My fault there. AFAIK, there's a fix for the Yellow Streak bug, but I totally forgot who was responsible for that....
I had a pretty good idea of what was behind it, but I'm still not 100% certain of what's going on. My "Throw is supposed to be the command with the yellow streak" was added because the commands were out of order.

Quote
Rereading your post.. I have no idea where the code that controls his command list comes from.
* Lenophis looks in JCE's general direction again...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 03:19:52 PM »
I made some edits during your post..

Anyways..

http://www.geigercount.net/crypt/index.html

This was a result from an inquiry from this thread: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=506.0
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Lenophis

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 04:02:19 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 03:19:52 PM
Anyways..

http://www.geigercount.net/crypt/index.html
Suddenly JCE's screenshot of the skills menu bleeding into the status menu is making sense. Let's see what this is breaking...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - Understanding Gogo
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 04:07:30 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on August 19, 2008, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 19, 2008, 03:19:52 PM
Anyways..

http://www.geigercount.net/crypt/index.html
Suddenly JCE's screenshot of the skills menu bleeding into the status menu is making sense. Let's see what this is breaking...

Are you trying to figure out the menu itself? (I've already posted a link to the yellow streak fix, unless that's not what you're looking for...)
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