Aslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=gpc1c385js90j9dai8decqrcf7&action=profile;area=showposts;sa=messages;u=416e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index6a97.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=416e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index6a97.html.zxh^ aOKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip@ aWed, 11 Mar 2020 08:01:52 GMT0 0Ph^ a Show Posts - abyssonym

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Messages - abyssonym

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Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« on: December 19, 2016, 08:07:58 PM »
Quote from: Madsiur on December 18, 2016, 10:04:44 AM
Thanks for your input, abyss. This will be helpful. Will your world map generator be expanded to a regular map generator too accesible from the world map?
I was considering a project that would be an expanded Ancient Cave like in Beyond Chaos, but would have a randomized world map and would retain many of the events that are currently deleted from BCAC. But this would have involved a lot of work in parsing event scripts and re-cataloging every map's exits, NPCs, etc. So I don't know if I'll ever pick it back up. A regular map generator is doable but I wasn't planning on it.

Quote from: Bydoless on December 14, 2016, 07:32:57 PM
I also am planning on making a FF6 room random generator for my roguelikeifier, but I am having an issue of creating an algorithm that generates the actual walkable area for each room.
Several years ago I was inspired by this article: http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Cellular_Automata_Method_for_Generating_Random_Cave-Like_Levels . This is the method that I use (with a different ruleset) to generate the land masses in the world map randomizer, then I generate the details in a second pass. I think there is a problem with tiles in FF6, though, in that some of them can be walked through in one direction only, so that's something to look for.

Quote from: thepatirckinator on December 19, 2016, 07:17:32 AM
So one of you guys is trying to make a Final Fantasy 6 randomizer.
Been there, done that!  :wink:

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Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (underground/moon transition working)
« on: December 13, 2016, 11:04:22 PM »
Sounds like you're planning a "markov" method similar to what I used for the world map generator, Madsiur. Assuming you have the layer 1 already generated, layer 2 should be a lot easier to work off of because it isn't as complex. You can make the program automate its own prep work by having it go through every map that uses the same tileset and catalogue which tiles can be adjacent to each other and still be valid. Ideally you would keep a running total of every instance of two adjacent tiles so you can generate layer 2 tiles that fit the probability distribution. I suppose it is possible to have a situation where a configuration of L1 tiles is legal but there is no possible L2 configuration that matches them, but I expect that this would be pretty rare so the failure strategy could be something like "just don't use L2 tiles".

For the world map, I had two basic validators, a "north-south" and an "west-east" validator, that were used to make sure each pair was legal. For a chosen tile called "center" these were applied once each ("north-center" and "west-center") since the tiles were generated starting from the northwest corner. However, because the map had high complexity, I needed to optimize the program to minimize backtracking and finish in a reasonable amount of time. So I also used the validators for a 1-step lookahead ("center-south" and "center-east"), and a 2-step lookahead based on those ("east-southeast" and "south-southeast"). Actually I had more complex lookaheads than that, but you get the general idea.

For choosing L2 tiles, I expect that you would still need the same N-S and W-E validators, but also maybe a L2North-L1South validator or something because L2 tiles are often use to create the tops of trees, etc. Since L2 isn't so complex, I don't think it needs optimization, lookaheads, or backtracking, but there probably will be a few impossible situations, which is where the "just don't use L2 tiles" strategy comes in.

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Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (basic map randomization working)
« on: November 06, 2016, 10:16:19 AM »
Quote from: Grimoire LD on November 06, 2016, 12:42:20 AM
Your brand of randomization is normally taking Everything that can be randomized and having that option there. For instance Dark Knight Palom might have White/Kick/Regen for his special commands, being able to equip Whips, Hammers, and Harps.
Oh, I'm not trying to get Pinkpuff to make a randomizer. I just see a lot of talk in the thread about custom characters with new skillsets, and I'd like to be able to play the mod with a normal Edward if I wanted to. I do agree that there should be some way for Rydia to obtain her summons, for example.

As far as an FF4 randomizer goes though, there's already one in development by fcoughlin (though it has been on hiatus for a long time).

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I think the room generation is so simple currently just as a proof of concept, rather than meant to represent the final project. Therefore your goals are already quite different
The only real sticking point for me is the linearity. A non-linear dungeon with backtracking is the project I'd like to see made, and there's no reason for me to make it if Pinkpuff already is.

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However I think what you find and the way you go about randomization may still be of worth to PinkPuff so I strongly suggest the sharing of info. between you two.
Of course, although I haven't worked on FF4 for very long, so I can't contribute that much.

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Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (basic map randomization working)
« on: November 05, 2016, 05:41:37 PM »
There's two features I'd personally like to see.

1. More complex room generation, to create natural looking floors. You could build a floor using cellular automata + a markov chain created from existing game maps. I used this technique to create a world map generator for FF6; see the attached images. I wasn't planning to do this for FF4, but I was going to use the existing game maps (like in FF6 AC) which I like better than simple maze generation.

2. Branching paths and exploration, and reasons to go exploring. In FF6 AC I hid "rest stops" throughout the dungeon, where the player could shop, sleep at an inn, save, and pick up new espers or party members. Exploration is the aspect that most appeals to me about procedurally generated games... I'm not so much a hack 'n slash guy. It's also the reason I'd like to see more natural-looking floors, because I feel like having easily recognizable landmarks adds a lot to the experience... maybe even more so if they're maps from the game.

If you decide to keep this project as a linear dungeon crawl (it's fine if you want to), then I might go ahead and make my original idea.

Also I'd like to see the characters stay more on the vanilla side of things, or at least leave it as an option. Finishing the game with Dark Knight Cecil dragging your party down is its own kind of challenge.

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Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Roguelikeifyer (basic map randomization working)
« on: November 04, 2016, 11:05:29 PM »
Wow, I just started investigating a project like this, and I found this thread while searching for docs. I was thinking of doing a FF4 Ancient Cave mod for the 25th anniversary of the US release. I don't want to step on anyone's toes though and y'all are better equipped to make this than I am. I'd be happy to contribute what I can though, based on my experience making the FF6 Ancient Cave mod. If you open-source it on github.com I'll submit patches and stuff.

I did try the "roguelikeifyer", but no matter what I do, it seems to spawn me in the middle of a wall or something... see the attached image.

EDIT: nvm, I see you already addressed that in the original post

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