Topic: Shadow Party Stats

[Deathlike2]

Worth a  I guess

Based on this thread:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=588330&topic=52380093

Do we know what the shadow data/RAM contains when Palom+Porom leaves? I could only come up with 4 names, based on my recollection of Cid being part of the data...

[Phoenix]

Four names should be right. When the twins leave, the shadow slots should hold:

First Slot: Kain
Second Slot: Tellah (his stats when he last left the party)
Third Slot: Rosa
Fourth Slot: Yang
Fifth Slot: Rydia

Since the four other characters come back to the party, their stats need to be retained, and there isn't room for both Palom and Porom.

[Deathlike2]

When the twins leave, Yang and Tellah are already in the party... freeing up the 2 slots that you would need in the first place.

[Phoenix]

You're right, I forgot about Yang. It would work up until Cid's and FuSoYa's stats are stored (although neither need to be stored, FuSoYa's is only to show his HP in the auto-battles with Zemus). So I guess you really could make a FF4A-esque hack work with the shadow data as is. Who's up to the challenge? 

[Grimoire LD]

102F is related to escaping. The data there is modified when using Porom's Cry command. My thought is that it is some type of internal "Luck" stat, that is used when determining whether the party can escape, and maybe other times.

The data from 102D-F is calculated during the equipment initialization, so it could be immunities for the other statuses; however, those statuses don't really need immunities (Barrier, Wall, image, jumping, hiding, etc.). Also, the values don't really seem to support this. At the beginning of the game, the values for Cecil at 102D-E are 02 and 14, which would imply immunity to Stop, image high, and Wall. Since we know this isn't true, it must be something else.

They could be related to the other equipment bits. Since they're buggy it's difficult to test. However, the 102D-F data comes from within the character stats; the bits that control metallic/throwable/etc. are stored within the equipment data, meaning they are calculated from the equipment. It's unlikely that equipment data would be stored within the character stat data. This is why I think those three bytes may be some internal "Luck" stat, or something to that effect.

Absolutely ancient, but still here's a required Bump!

I've figured out what the 102D-F (or at least one of the bytes) do. Phoenix was right on the mark. It's kind of like a "luck" stat. 102D Definitely is. What 102D actually appears to be is the chance to Critical Hit.

It appears to be Value = Chance to Critical Hit - And it may be just a plain 100 (setting it to 64 seems to almost always guarantee a critical hit) rather than based off of 255. Now oddly this test was done with the Dummied Crystal Sword copy, which would mean that Logically I should have No Crit chance, but setting that to 64 and FF produced critical hits a plenty.

So Value = Chance to Critical Hit x Attack Multipliers. At least it appears that way and a Critical Hit seems to be recorded differently for each hit whether it was a Critical Hit or not. (not graphically speaking however)

NOTE: All Shadow Party people come back with the same critical hit stat, including Adult Rydia (who should have none due to being equipped with a Property 1 Weapon)

Dark Knight Cecil - 02 (14 0A)
Kain - 02 (14 0A)
Rydia - 01 (28 0A) - (So from the very start Rydia is given less of a chance to Critical Hit... hah.)
Tellah - 01 (1E 0A)
Edward - 02 (1E 0A)
Rosa - 02 (3C 0A)
Yang - 01 (Wha?!) (32 0A)
Palom - 01 (1E 0A)
Porom - 01 (1E 0A)
Paladin Cecil - 03 (I thought as much) (1E 01) - (01? Hmm...)
Cid - 05 (Whoa.) (23 14) - (Very different values from everyone thus far. I wonder what they mean...)
Edge - 08 (Well, I guess he's the king of crits then.) (19 19)
FuSoYa - 00 (Eh?) (00 32)

And there you have it. Edge will crit more than anyone else and it seems that FuSoYa cannot naturally get a critical hit Ever. To my knowledge some of this flies in the face of conventional knowledge. Exactly how does Property 1 make it so you can't critical hit then?

Well I figured out the first byte, let's see if I can soon figure out the second.

  Here's a peculiarity.

Cecil clearly has a 02 14 but in battle (and indeed viewing his initial battle records) this stat is shown as 04 19, hmm...

Ah hah... part of it is weapon based... each weapon may have its own Critical Hit Modifier...

  2 Shadow - x2 +05 (Yes, you're reading that right. The Shadow Blade gives x2 to your current Critical Hit Modifier, tested with Critical Hit at 2, then at 5. At 2 it rises to 4, and 5 it rises to A. The second value seems to be a static +5 though.

Darkness - x2 +10

Black - x2 + 15

Note: It seems that the second value increases in comparison to its base attack power. Meaning that this value will be (Character Innate + Half of the weapon's Attack Power). I still have yet to reason out what this does...

Ah! I see! What it actually does is decide the amount of extra damage a weapon will deal when it Critically Hits. Setting the value to FF made that abundantly clear. That surprisingly means that Rosa has the best Innate damage with Critical Hits, oddly enough, with Cid in a close second and of all people Rydia in a distant third.

I should probably start from the beginning...

Now to see if all weapons do is double the chance for Critical Hits of if there's more to it...

Nothing - x1
Claws    - x2
Rods      - x2
Staffs     - x2
Dark Swords - x2
Light Swords - x2
Swords  - x2
Spears  - x2
Ninja Swords - x2
Knives - x2
Whips   -x2 (though they should not be able to cause Critical Hits due to Property 1, they still add the normal x2 which is inherent to all weapons so far)
Axes - x2
Throwing Weapons - x2
Boomerangs -x2
Harps - x2
Hammers - x2
Bows&Arrows x3 (Quite a shock!)
(Quite Possibly the game penalizes dual wielders by taking away their Crit Bonus from a normal weapon.)

Well aside from the discovery about the bows that felt like a waste so...

The critical hit bonus is basically double of what is shown above.

And confirmed! Characters who equip two weapons Lose their Critical Bonus when dual wielding! While quite significant for Edge, Yang barely seems like he will be able to score any critical hit in the first place.

Now all that remains is that final byte... it never appears to change and seems unique for some characters.

[Deathlike2]

Grimoire, I'm not sure if you read my algo doc with respect to critical hits, but that's essentially what it came down to.

However, I've noted your critical hits mention a fixed number to added damage... that would explain what critical hits do with undead and Cecil's Darkness elemental sword vs their elemental immunity.

[Grimoire LD]

Yeah, I re-read it just a couple of days ago. I didn't catch that character uniqueness and weapons altered Critical Hit chance though, maybe I'm already forgetting what I read.

Though yes, the way Critical Hits appear to work on enemies is that it will deal one times half of the weapons default Attack Power, depending on how many critical hits got through which does go a way in explaining the Dark Sword oddities.

[Deathlike2]

You've got to remember that Cid in terms of balance needs to dish extra damage in the absence of a shield...

Is it possible that Edge simply attempts to calculate the base critical hit change twice? He does critical hit reasonably enough.

With respect to Yang, I'm trying to recall if he dishes crits often (I don't think he does that often, but he does make them) and he's a special case with respect to the damage algo (where his damage increase comes from hits base attack power IIRC).

[chillyfeez]

Deathlike brings up an interesting point about Edge. We know his displayed attack power is split between the two weapons, maybe the algo requires a split of the crit chance, too.

[Grimoire LD]

That is true about Cid, but the extra damage is only dealt if he gets a Critical Hit which has a good chance of happening and a great default power. Though I suppose he might actually benefit a bit from a Bow/Arrow since those x3 Critical Hits to give him a 15% chance of a hit rather than his normal Wooden Hammer.

I would say you're both not far off with what happens with Edge, possibly. It is a little difficult to test though. Edge does have the highest default critical hit chance, only being beaten by Cid when Edge has two weapons equipped. I suppose it's possible then that each weapon is recorded separately which could be the reason for the split. But in any case only the weapon in the Right hand's Attack Power when there are two weapons are taken into account in terms of the Critical Hit Damage.

I recall Yang getting Critical Hits infrequently as well, but I distinctly recall always being less than impressed by the damage output of them, always just assuming before that it was a bad hit. I'll have to test that more thoroughly then.

[Deathlike2]

That is true about Cid, but the extra damage is only dealt if he gets a Critical Hit which has a good chance of happening and a great default power. Though I suppose he might actually benefit a bit from a Bow/Arrow since those x3 Critical Hits to give him a 15% chance of a hit rather than his normal Wooden Hammer.

I don't think his "potential" best combo at the time would be a GreatBow+Poison Arrows, but I've always figured that even the Wooden Hammer is sufficient for the magnetic cave. Remember that damage consistency is more important than critical hits.

I recall Yang getting Critical Hits infrequently as well, but I distinctly recall always being less than impressed by the damage output of them, always just assuming before that it was a bad hit. I'll have to test that more thoroughly then.

The bonus could be something as simple as being level based. Early levels, it doesn't really feel like it has any benefits. When you get him @ level 30+, the damage isn't necessary, and remember that critical hits do stack with his special charging command.

[Grimoire LD]

A good point. Bows have Awful accuracy virtually throughout FFIV. If you're not Rosa, you're likely not using a Bow. While the Wooden Hammer has a default 75% chance to hit, which while not showing as much damage as a Poison Arrow/GreatBow, is more effective because of the loss of accuracy and damage because of the formula of attacking with a Bow/Arrow.

I'm kind of an idiot... completely forgetting the already 50% bonus Yang would technically get by his innate critical hit damage stat. That said though it does seem as if his critical hits in particular deal much more than others. At x2 multipliers he deals roughly 50-80 damage with a base attack of 27. With his critical hit ratio set at 50 almost every hit is a critical, going along with what was said about dual wielders counting that value twice, dealing upwards to 200 170-180.  If it's really only half of the power he would be dealing 120 maybe. There just might be something special in regards to Yang and critical hits...

[Deathlike2]

A good point. Bows have Awful accuracy virtually throughout FFIV. If you're not Rosa, you're likely not using a Bow. While the Wooden Hammer has a default 75% chance to hit, which while not showing as much damage as a Poison Arrow/GreatBow, is more effective because of the loss of accuracy and damage because of the formula of attacking with a Bow/Arrow.

The only time that has been addressed was during TAY where it was literally unified.

I'm kind of an idiot... completely forgetting the already 50% bonus Yang would technically get by his innate critical hit damage stat. That said though it does seem as if his critical hits in particular deal much more than others. At x2 multipliers he deals roughly 50-80 damage with a base attack of 27. With his critical hit ratio set at 50 almost every hit is a critical, going along with what was said about dual wielders counting that value twice, dealing upwards to 200 170-180.  If it's really only half of the power he would be dealing 120 maybe. There just might be something special in regards to Yang and critical hits...

I would suggest just hacking levels and stats, for the point of easy math amplification.

The critical hit attack bonus could simply be like LEVEL/4.

 
I reread my own FAQ and I wrote it was 50% of his attack power. It is possible that the Critical Hit Attack Bonus is literally the value of his LEVEL.

[Grimoire LD]

Hmm, levels seem to have nothing to deal with the damage done by Yang's critical hits. At level 99 It was still roughly 100 more than the normal attack, but nothing that significant or major surprisingly. It seemed, oddly enough, like the same numbers put in at his Level 10 self. +100 basically.

[Deathlike2]

Mind you, my research on those #s from critical hits were generally done on the GBA port since he's easier to test against.

I'd suggest adjusting manipulating his attack power though the STR stat and see if that makes a difference.