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Author Topic: Suggestions  (Read 99504 times)

assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #240 on: February 18, 2010, 06:26:12 AM »
1) i like the Steal/Capture idea of having an enemy go into a frenzy if you steal their prized item.  it'd be nice to have enemies actually be aware of what they're carrying for a change.  as it is now, they don't seem to know they have the items, let alone care when you pilfer them. :)  and do monsters dedicate a limb to holding this equipment, or is it accidentally adhered to them by tar or brambles or something?

the difficulty i see here is: does the conventional Steal/Capture counter trigger on any attempted steal, and not just successful ones?  if so, you'd have to supplement it with a custom FC command where the enemy calls new code that reads its Stealable item slots.

2) also in the Steal area, i never quite understood why a foe's Stealable items and Winnable items could have no intersection whatsoever.  Square means to tell us that if you fail to steal that Iron Helmet from an enemy during battle, you'll never have a chance of winning it, but can net a Blizzard instead?  does the first item get flung into a faraway land as you deal the last strike on the monster?  or does the enemy undergo a chemical change upon expiration that causes its possessions to change?  i'm interested in any rationale people can come up with, since it doesn't make much sense to me.

a simple way to address this could be to merge the Stealable and Winnable items into a common 4 slots, which could both be accessed in either circumstance.  and instead of 7/8 and 1/8 probabilities, maybe 4/8, 3/8, 2/8, and 1/8?  or since 50% is a bit much for one item, and a hack might want to give foes an elusive item, use the Dance probabilites of 7/16, 6/16, 2/16, and 1/16?  (maybe tweaking the middle two to 5/16 and 3/16, depending on your goals.)

now, merging these two categories could limit the uniqueness of Steal, and arguably reduce challenge, as you get two "cracks" at a desired item.  so maybe i should just suspend my disbelief and pretend a fallen enemy can somehow make one item disappear, and another take its place.. :/

Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #241 on: February 18, 2010, 01:45:02 PM »
1) i like the Steal/Capture idea of having an enemy go into a frenzy if you steal their prized item.  it'd be nice to have enemies actually be aware of what they're carrying for a change.  as it is now, they don't seem to know they have the items, let alone care when you pilfer them. :)  and do monsters dedicate a limb to holding this equipment, or is it accidentally adhered to them by tar or brambles or something?

It is somewhere on the body. One wonder what Locke does to the guy to "make stuff happen".

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the difficulty i see here is: does the conventional Steal/Capture counter trigger on any attempted steal, and not just successful ones?  if so, you'd have to supplement it with a custom FC command where the enemy calls new code that reads its Stealable item slots.

Did you manage to skip Locke's scenario?  :tongue:

AFAIK, Steal/Capture is reacted to a successful steal, so Zozo's Harvester reacts with a steal of its own AFAIK.

You would certainly have to handle the case of a failed steal anyways... although I'm trying to recall how Capture is handled with respect to hitting the target (the attack portion of the stealing, not the steal portion).

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2) also in the Steal area, i never quite understood why a foe's Stealable items and Winnable items could have no intersection whatsoever.  Square means to tell us that if you fail to steal that Iron Helmet from an enemy during battle, you'll never have a chance of winning it, but can net a Blizzard instead?  does the first item get flung into a faraway land as you deal the last strike on the monster?  or does the enemy undergo a chemical change upon expiration that causes its possessions to change?  i'm interested in any rationale people can come up with, since it doesn't make much sense to me.

This used to be done in FF4 (not sure about previous FFs). That was scrapped for FF5. Go figure, I would think a rational theme for item drops would be nice, but commands like Steal are underrated I guess.

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now, merging these two categories could limit the uniqueness of Steal, and arguably reduce challenge, as you get two "cracks" at a desired item.  so maybe i should just suspend my disbelief and pretend a fallen enemy can somehow make one item disappear, and another take its place.. :/

I'd rather have some semblance of variation in monsters (different starting HP/MP, monster AI scripts, etc.), but I'd say it's better than having predictable useless items steals in this game.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 02:29:14 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Leviathan Mist

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #242 on: February 18, 2010, 02:02:45 PM »
It's been a long time since I've checked up on this project, and there's a lot to read, so anyone care to summarize about how much progress has been made for me? Or do I have to go through and read all 17 pages of this topic? :P

Lenophis

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #243 on: February 18, 2010, 03:53:31 PM »
1) i like the Steal/Capture idea of having an enemy go into a frenzy if you steal their prized item.  it'd be nice to have enemies actually be aware of what they're carrying for a change.  as it is now, they don't seem to know they have the items, let alone care when you pilfer them. :)  and do monsters dedicate a limb to holding this equipment, or is it accidentally adhered to them by tar or brambles or something?
Twine and glue. That's why Locke has a hard time stealing, glue is hard to remove. :tongue:

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the difficulty i see here is: does the conventional Steal/Capture counter trigger on any attempted steal, and not just successful ones?
I believe it's only on a successful steal attempt. The Merchant and Soldier in Locke's scenario should be proof enough for that. They don't change into the Birthday Suits unless you successfully steal an item from them.

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if so, you'd have to supplement it with a custom FC command where the enemy calls new code that reads its Stealable item slots.
Ooohhh, new FC commands. :whoa: I worry about the order, though. Example:
Random monster has a potion, phoenix down, Blizzard, and iron helmet for winning and stealing. Assume there's an FC command to read steal slot 3 every round, and now assume Locke just stole that Blizzard. The AI will continuously trigger about the Blizzard missing, effectively putting the monster into a "stupid loop." How can this be counter-acted?

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2) also in the Steal area, i never quite understood why a foe's Stealable items and Winnable items could have no intersection whatsoever.  Square means to tell us that if you fail to steal that Iron Helmet from an enemy during battle, you'll never have a chance of winning it, but can net a Blizzard instead?  does the first item get flung into a faraway land as you deal the last strike on the monster?  or does the enemy undergo a chemical change upon expiration that causes its possessions to change?  i'm interested in any rationale people can come up with, since it doesn't make much sense to me.
Ooh! Ooh! I know! They dematerialize instantly when the monster dies, as is the case with the clothes of the soldiers. That makes perfect sense! :tongue:

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a simple way to address this could be to merge the Stealable and Winnable items into a common 4 slots, which could both be accessed in either circumstance.  and instead of 7/8 and 1/8 probabilities, maybe 4/8, 3/8, 2/8, and 1/8?  or since 50% is a bit much for one item, and a hack might want to give foes an elusive item, use the Dance probabilites of 7/16, 6/16, 2/16, and 1/16?  (maybe tweaking the middle two to 5/16 and 3/16, depending on your goals.)
If we did that, the steal slots would increase to 6 overall. :eek: Combine that with our new stealing engine that allows the thieves to keep stealing until all slots are depleted... :cookie:

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now, merging these two categories could limit the uniqueness of Steal, and arguably reduce challenge, as you get two "cracks" at a desired item.  so maybe i should just suspend my disbelief and pretend a fallen enemy can somehow make one item disappear, and another take its place.. :/
There is merit to what you say.

You would certainly have to handle the case of a failed steal anyways... although I'm trying to recall how Capture is handled with respect to hitting the target (the attack portion of the stealing, not the steal portion).
Though I'm not certain, I think the standard FC 05 (counter if self was attacked) will trigger.

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I'd rather have some semblance of variation in monsters (different starting HP/MP, monster AI scripts, etc.), but I'd say it's better than having predictable useless items steals in this game.
And you shall.

Or do I have to go through and read all 17 pages of this topic? :P
Hahahahahahahahaahahahahahhahaahhaah! :cookie:

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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #244 on: February 18, 2010, 08:47:50 PM »
Swapping the morph list with the steal list would probably be a simple and probably more effective idea.
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assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #245 on: February 19, 2010, 05:30:31 AM »
Did you manage to skip Locke's scenario?  :tongue:

AFAIK, Steal/Capture is reacted to a successful steal, so Zozo's Harvester reacts with a steal of its own AFAIK.

d'oh!  i've played it; i'm just senile. :/

assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #246 on: February 19, 2010, 05:44:45 AM »
Quote from: assassin
if so, you'd have to supplement it with a custom FC command where the enemy calls new code that reads its Stealable item slots.
Ooohhh, new FC commands. :whoa: I worry about the order, though. Example:
Random monster has a potion, phoenix down, Blizzard, and iron helmet for winning and stealing. Assume there's an FC command to read steal slot 3 every round, and now assume Locke just stole that Blizzard. The AI will continuously trigger about the Blizzard missing, effectively putting the monster into a "stupid loop." How can this be counter-acted?

well, it wouldn't specifically read Steal Slot 3; it'd read every slot.  at least in the original game, a successful steal empties both steal slots, so the FC command would have to check both/all of them to ensure they're all empty.

would the AI be an issue if you had the custom FC command right after (or "inside of", if you will) the Counter Steal FC command?

anyway, this is moot given my senility.


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Ooh! Ooh! I know! They dematerialize instantly when the monster dies, as is the case with the clothes of the soldiers. That makes perfect sense! :tongue:

ah, kind of like the vampires on _Buffy_.

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If we did that, the steal slots would increase to 6 overall. :eek:

why 6 and not 4?  did PB already increase the slots by 2?

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Combine that with our new stealing engine that allows the thieves to keep stealing until all slots are depleted... :cookie:

nifty.  will a thief ever try to hit depleted slots as long as full ones remain, or will they "know" which ones are empty?

Quote from: me
now, merging these two categories could limit the uniqueness of Steal, and arguably reduce challenge, as you get two "cracks" at a desired item.

then again, it would add some challenge in that you could only get 1 item maximum from a monster in a given battle, whereas the existing game lets you get as much as 2.

Lenophis

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #247 on: February 19, 2010, 03:10:20 PM »
why 6 and not 4?  did PB already increase the slots by 2?
Yes. That was done at the same time of giving the thieves the ability to keep stealing items. Plus it seemed like a good idea already. :happy:

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nifty.  will a thief ever try to hit depleted slots as long as full ones remain, or will they "know" which ones are empty?
They'll keep trying to hit the depleted slots. I thought about implementing a memory system, but that would make stealing way, way too easy.

The stealing formula was also redone, and it should be much more balanced than it was, originally.

Swapping the morph list with the steal list would probably be a simple and probably more effective idea.
So now you want the morph list to be 2 items only? Or am I missing something?

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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #248 on: February 19, 2010, 07:06:00 PM »
Swapping the morph list with the steal list would probably be a simple and probably more effective idea.
So now you want the morph list to be 2 items only? Or am I missing something?

You could share those lists for expansion I guess.

Personally, I'd rather see the ability to morph be more like the FF7 command since it sucks entirely in FF6 by design.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #249 on: September 02, 2010, 12:05:00 PM »
 :bump:

Make Umaro do different things based on his MP. As you know, his MP has no real value other than consuming it with Osmose. So, instead, Umaro should perform a different attack or some different randomness based on it. For instance, maybe he'll use Storm despite not having the Blizzard Orb... or something to that effect when he has less than 1/2 of his MP...
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Lenophis

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #250 on: September 02, 2010, 01:53:27 PM »
Umaro has no commands, so his MP shouldn't ever be copied to the battle buffer. If he loses MP because of the Orb, then I'm curious about why.

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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #251 on: September 02, 2010, 02:15:28 PM »
My point was that you would manipulate Umaro's behavior via his "useless" MP stat.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #252 on: March 22, 2011, 02:39:12 AM »
 :bump:

Here's a long overdue suggestion: When you do the multi-selection of equipment+relics, also list the espers being carried in that screen. It would be extraordinarily handy (and probably be a nifty standalone patch/hack to boot).

 :edit:
Another suggestion is to list the attacks of the monster in the Rage screens when the cursor is hovering over them... do the same for Dances (list all the attacks in the Dance set)...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 11:46:00 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #253 on: March 25, 2011, 06:46:34 PM »
Swapping the morph list with the steal list would probably be a simple and probably more effective idea.
So now you want the morph list to be 2 items only? Or am I missing something?

You could share those lists for expansion I guess.

Personally, I'd rather see the ability to morph be more like the FF7 command since it sucks entirely in FF6 by design.
Quite. I never use it. Double magic power (or whatever it does) is really unimportant considering how often you can do excessive amounts of damage.

I would recommend Morph become a permanent switch and Morphing again would revert back. You should be unable to use fight or something during the Esper-phase or drastically reduced physical attack/defense??

assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #254 on: March 25, 2011, 09:09:05 PM »
^ i think they were talking about Ragnarok's Metamorph. :P  this reminds me: i should change all applicable cases in the commented C2 disassembly to "Metamorph", to avoid any ambiguity.