øAslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=473.msg3971e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index7cc9.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=473.0e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index7cc9.html.zxrLg^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÈ…¬ß'OKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip0|Öß'ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿTue, 10 Mar 2020 08:31:05 GMT0ó°° ®0®P®€§²ð®qLg^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿô*ß' Shadow Party Stats

« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 »

Author Topic: Shadow Party Stats  (Read 13336 times)

Phoenix

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 456
    • View Profile
    • Phoenix Hacks
Shadow Party Stats
« on: April 05, 2008, 10:49:40 AM »
The shadow party stats are specified within the RAM area of $7E:1140-127F. These hold the stat data for characters that have left your party but will rejoin later. The data areas for each character are:

1140-117F   Kain
1180-11BF   Tellah/FuSoYa (and Cid)
11C0-11FF   Rosa
1200-123F   Yang
1240-127F   Rydia

Some code that is being executed knows when and for whom to save the data, but I don't know the location of it. Re-adding a character outside these five will add the character with their original stats.

Though equipment information is within these stats, when one of these five characters is re-added, their new equipment is determined by the initial equipment information (7AD00-7AD91). The one exception to this is Tellah when he receives all his spells on Mt. Ordeals. His initial equipment specification for that instance of his character is empty, but he maintains the same equipment that his last character instance had. I'm not sure how this works, exactly.

Magic lists are also separate from these stats and are continuous throughout the game. For example, if you remove older Rydia from your party and add child Rydia, she'll maintain the same magic lists even though her stats and equipment match her child instance.

If anyone knows anything else related to the shadow party stats, please post. I'm researching this information right now because I need to be able to freely add and remove characters from the party, and right now this severely limits character handling in my hack.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 10:24:25 PM by Phoenix »
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2008, 11:07:01 AM »
My guess is that either Tellah is being handled differently on Mt. Ordeals or that Tellah's shadowed info is still being stored away until that event completes.

Also, you would have to look into the "revised" equipment data that is being changed by the game... using Rosa or Yang under this instance is your best bet. Here are some reasons:

1) Young Rydia switches to Older Rydia profile.
2) Kain comes back fully equipped
3) Tellah comes back with the same equipment you first met him. This might be something you look into further.
4) Dark Knight Cecil switches to Paladin Cecil profile.

For Yang, he starts with a Leather Robe and a Claw. When he rejoins at Baron, he comes back with only a Leather Robe.
For Rosa, she starts with a full set of equipment. When she rejoins, she comes back with the Prisoner Robe only.

Both characters you may want to look into.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Phoenix

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 456
    • View Profile
    • Phoenix Hacks
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2008, 11:29:57 AM »
Rydia, Kain, Rosa, and Yang all have their equipment specified in the initial equipment bytes. Tellah does, too -- he comes back with slightly different equipment the second time: the first time he is equipped with a Staff and a Leather Robe, the second time he is equipped with a Staff, a Gaea Robe, and an IronRing. All of these work correctly with their initial equipment specification.

The third instance of Tellah (after Mt. Ordeals) is the one with no specified equipment, but he keeps the same equipment he had in the second instance. My point was that this must be specially coded to work this way, since this is the only character instance where this happens.
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2008, 11:50:39 AM »
Quote from: Phoenix on April 05, 2008, 11:29:57 AM
Rydia, Kain, Rosa, and Yang all have their equipment specified in the initial equipment bytes. Tellah does, too -- he comes back with slightly different equipment the second time: the first time he is equipped with a Staff and a Leather Robe, the second time he is equipped with a Staff, a Gaea Robe, and an IronRing. All of these work correctly with their initial equipment specification.

I forgot the details.. oh well. I blame the Staff for being useless and being only useful for the Scamaglione (undead version) battle.

Quote
The third instance of Tellah (after Mt. Ordeals) is the one with no specified equipment, but he keeps the same equipment he had in the second instance. My point was that this must be specially coded to work this way, since this is the only character instance where this happens.

No doubt there.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Phoenix

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 456
    • View Profile
    • Phoenix Hacks
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2008, 10:23:48 PM »
I noticed after I started this thread that the second slot for the shadow data also stores the information for FuSoYa once he's left your party. I've updated the original post to reflect this.

I have also found the subroutines that load the character data into the shadow data, and vice versa, and have been decoding them. I didn't think I'd be able to figure them out, but I had a breakthrough today and I believe I've found the information that determines which characters it stores stats for. I'll have to do some testing to be sure, though.

But here's a little interesting tidbit for everyone: the information I've found says that Cid's stats are loaded into the second shadow data slot as well. This means that, at some point in development, he was intended to rejoin your party.

 :hmm:
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2008, 10:29:59 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on April 07, 2008, 10:23:48 PM
But here's a little interesting tidbit for everyone: the information I've found says that Cid's stats are loaded into the second shadow data slot as well. This means that, at some point in development, he was intended to rejoin your party.

 :hmm:

It's simple. He was to replace the $#*)($#*#$ing old man so he would completely own in the Giant.

Edit: The fact that Cid faces zero Mechs during his time with you makes zero sense.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2008, 08:50:19 AM by Deathlike2 »
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Pinkpuff

  • Flan Princess
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Find a Megalixir in Unprecedented Crisis!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2008, 08:50:41 AM »
That would've been so awesome!!
Logged
Let's dance!

Paladin

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Gender: Male
  • Warrior of Light
    • View Profile
    • FinalFantasyIV.net
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 08:58:56 AM »
I think if you look at the story of the game the more likely answer is that there were events that included Cid later in the game but before the Giant's emergence which were cut.

This is one of the more recent theories I've discussed with others. That is the probability that the events in the underground were cut short due to development time constraints is.

After Zot Cain tells you about the nature of the crystals and the underground world. The underground is the reverse of the light world and just as there are four crystals of light, there are four of darkness in the underground.

We all know that the dwarves have a crystal and you get to retrieve the another one from the sealed cave. However where were the other two? I guess we're supposed to assume Golbez found them on his own just lying about somewhere.

The theory is, there were probably at least two more events relating to gathering the other two dark crystals in the underground that got cut. Probably after the sealed cave and Cain's second betrayal (because they only got that far in development).  Once Cain leaves, that opens a slot for Cid, back at Dwarf Castle, to fill for the rest of whatever else was supposed to happen underground...and then he probably leaves again before you go to the moon. Since it's "shortened up" there's no need for him to rejoin.

Of course this is speculation...but knowing that the game does have bits left that suggest Cid was to rejoin I think that makes more sense now to me...
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 09:18:27 AM »
I think Cid was supposed to be there, but primarily to get out of the underground and leave after the Giant sequence.

You would have Kain for most of the underground though. It's interesting because the Tower of Zot is accessible (strangely enough) and that warp device that Rubicante used would be somewhat accessible.

Note, there is a section of the floor that you fight Rubicante on that is never normally accessible.. (although the behavior of that area is bugged)  it would be a prime candidate for Tower of Zot revisited v3.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

odditude

  • Vargas
  • *
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 09:33:24 PM »
Bab-il, not Zot.  Idiots on the zsnes boards draining your brain? :laugh:
Logged

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 09:44:25 PM »
Quote from: odditude on April 08, 2008, 09:33:24 PM
Bab-il, not Zot.  Idiots on the zsnes boards draining your brain? :laugh:

I admit it, it's shot. Time for  :sleep:
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Phoenix

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 456
    • View Profile
    • Phoenix Hacks
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2008, 02:08:09 AM »
Finished testing: I did indeed find the data that determines which shadow data slots are used for whom. The table is sandwiched between the subroutines, which is why it's not easy to find. There's two different sets of bytes:

1. The first is the table for loading characters stats when a character joins your party. This is from 0689A-068AE (FF2us ROM with header). There is 1 byte per character ID. Values of 00-0F mean to load the initial stats for the characters (referencing the table at 7AB00), and values of 80-84 mean to load the shadow data stats.

2. The second table is for storing character stats in the shadow data slots when a character leaves your party. This is from 0691D-06930, again with 1 byte per character ID. Values of 00-04 mean to store the data in that shadow slot, and a value of 80 means don't store.

So, here's how the data lines up with the character IDs:
Code: [Select]
ID  Character Instance    Load  Store
--  ------------------    ----  -----
01  Cecil (Dark Knight)    00    80
02  Kain                   01    00
03  Rydia (child)          02    04
04  Tellah                 03    01
05  Edward                 04    80
06  Rosa                   05    02
07  Yang                   06    03
08  Palom                  07    80
09  Porom                  08    80
0A  Tellah (second time)   81    01
0B  Cecil (Paladin)        09    80
0C  Tellah (all spells)    81    80
0D  Yang (second time)     83    80
0E  Cid                    0A    01
0F  Kain (second time)     80    00
10  Rosa (second time)     82    80
11  Rydia (older)          84    80
12  Edge                   0B    80
13  FuSoYa                 0C    01
14  Kain (third time)      80    80
15  Golbez                 0D   

I've tested that adjusting these values changes what data is stored in the shadow slots, and have loaded post-leaving data for other characters (like Edward) successfully. This should open up some possibilities for those of you that want to change the make-up of the party during different points of the game.

However, there is still a limitation with the way this works: since there's only 5 slots, the character changes must be pre-determined, and not chosen by the player. The most flexible you can be with this is to keep two or three permanent members in the party and have two or three optional members, from a choice of 5 different characters. That isn't going to be good enough for my hack, so I've conceptualized and have started writing new subroutines to fix this, so that all 14 characters in my hack can be switched in and out freely.

Whew! After all that work I deserve a  :cookie:


...or maybe two  :cookie:  :happy:
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 05:06:53 PM by Phoenix »
Logged

Pinkpuff

  • Flan Princess
  • *
  • Posts: 924
  • Find a Megalixir in Unprecedented Crisis!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2008, 05:32:03 AM »
That's awesome! What an amazing find!

Can't wait to see your character changing hack.
Logged
Let's dance!

Deathlike2

  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 3,538
  • I'm looking at you, bitch!
    • View Profile
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2008, 09:55:32 AM »
FF4A, eat your heart out!

 :cookie: for Phoenix.
Logged
Working on the next Yet To Be Named FF4 "Hardtype" Hack Download Latest: v1.48

Video Demos: #1 #2 #3

Phoenix

  • FF4 Hacker
  • *
  • Posts: 456
    • View Profile
    • Phoenix Hacks
Re: Shadow Party Stats
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2008, 06:03:48 PM »
Thanks!

I forgot to mention one thing. I also found the equipment check for Tellah's third instance (character id 0c). If you want him to receive initial equipment rather than keep what he has, then change the data at 06869 to EAEAEAEAEA. That should work, though I haven't checked it yet.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 »
« previous next »