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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2012, 08:57:34 PM »
My guess is that a lot of these bugs usually are porting issues.

For instance, the back row bugs are easy to fix when you completely redo the data structure.

However, the auto-Cover code for DK Cecil is probably a result of trying to change a bit of the battle code. There's a shot that Paladin Cecil won't have auto-Cover...

In the GBA version, you can "revert" back to DK Cecil with cheats (using a Gameshark AFAIK). The game still recognizes him as Cecil, but even the DK Cecil profile is still part of the data storage (while you may still be grinding to level 99) and if they really wanted to, could write code to use him in some oddball scenario.

So, it shouldn't be surprising how these bugs are created at times....
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2012, 11:52:22 AM »
Yeah, I'm sure covering is just an accidental result of them making Cecil's two classes more interconnected in this. What bums me out is the fact that enemy rows and gradual petrification were functional and they broke them for the GBA release. I always blamed all of the GBA version's bugs on this remake, but no, it was just a lousy port. I'm amazed they fixed cover.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2012, 12:09:19 AM »
Is there a recommended WSC emu that I should be using? Oswan is OK but feels a tad foreign despite being functional.

The first auto-battle enemies are not weak to Fire, thus dishing less damage.

At least the Status menu can get you to show the equipment....

 :edit:
Nice to know the WSC port was the first to remove the hidden item in Rosa's House.

I don't remember Titan's Quake to deal that much damage....

 :edit:
Sight's Overworld Map is introduced in this version (and very much needed by design).
"Targeting" sucks in this version as noted before.
I get the odd feeling that critical hit algo needs some work, or it's 2x the attack power in the WSC version.
Dashing with the B-button works in this version (not automatic).
Two buttons seem to do cool things - one goes to magic, the other goes to the item list (feels like BOF where you could do that).

 :edit:
It's either bad luck... or Tellah can't seem to use Recall vs the Octomammoth...
This is where the lame "reacting to physical attacks" and Miss! began (the Tellah-Spoony Bard forever sequence)

 :edit:
I've just noticed this... there is no desert area around the Antlion's Cave in the WS version (it is shown as a lighter ground area). This extended into FF4A US/Jap 1.0. There is supposed to be desert there, which is noticeable in FF4 and FF4A Euro/Jap 1.1.

The ghostlyish female monster in the Antlion's Cave... it has an odd visual when attacking, where only the upper half of the body seems to be attacking, instead of the whole body flashing.

 :edit:
The RNG doesn't seem to have issues (it must have something to do with the GBA itself, or whatever libs the idiot port users were using for RANDOMIZATION... which technically includes the Wii port since it's inheriting that trait).
Multitargeting characters seems to target a hiding Edward, despite it not being successful.
Yang's back row appearance in his auto-battle (regardless of the spare slot he starts in) started from the GBA port. The WS port does not have that happen.
Note: DS port seems to let you control Yang, PSP seems to use "dummy monsters" that don't attack (to keep Yang damage free).


Minor notes for Walkthrough:
Cecil @ level 13 for 3x Attack Multiplier, Rydia @ level 8 for 1x Defense Multiplier
Rydia @ level 12 for 5x Int Multiplier, 13 for Toad, Edward @ level 10 for 2x Attack Multiplier
Edward @ level 18 for 3x Attack + 2x Defense Multiplier for overkill, Yang @ level 14 for 3x Attack Multiplier
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 02:10:17 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2012, 01:53:09 PM »
Cool, you picked up on a bunch of stuff I overlooked (and some I neglected to mention). Recall definitely works in the Octomammoth battle; I hit the bastard with Bio. :banonsmash:

You can actually customize what the Y buttons do out of battle in the config menu. (The 1.0/US GBA version still has these strings.)

I'm using Oswan too. There's a new version entirely on Japanese on the emulator's Sourceforge page if you want to give that a try.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2012, 02:16:57 PM »
Well, I'm sure there's more to be found. Kinda makes me wish someone translated this if not to make my life easier.

The Y-button config is interesting IMO. It really does remind me of BOF SNES version's ultra configurable system.

I'm pretty sure I'm using the latest emu from the SF site.

The "new Fabul desert" started in this version of the game.... not that it makes a big diff.

Also, battle statuses seem to be auto-determined (the battle monster set itself works like the SNES version, but I'm talking specifically about the preemptive strike/back attack/surprise status).

Hide works like FF4A, so I guess that's an upgrade.

I'll be grinding a bit on the peninsula of power for bit... :P

 :edit:
I swear, Bows+Arrows feel so crippled in this version. I'm pretty sure this is the version that added the Bow+Arrow bug (specifically the Back/Ignore Row attribute).
Aim didn't have this problem, but Aim fixes so many other lameness on its own.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 04:35:28 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2012, 01:36:11 AM »
Some more bugs regarding the WSC version:

In the mini-battle before fighting Yang, you aren't supposed to get XP+Gold from the battle. Only the WSC version gives you that...

Yang gets a 99% hit rate when he has two claws - regardless of what those two claws are (remember the Fairy Claw has naturally some low accuracy, so it's impossible to get 99% when combined with an elemental claw). Another WSC specific bug...

"Modified" Spirit stat (after equipment bonuses/adjustments) are not factored into non-battle healing. Although these bonuses work in battle, they are not applied into the special healing algo used outside of battle. This applies to the WSC version AND FF4A US/Jap 1.0 versions. It appears to be fixed in FF4A Euro/Jap 1.1 versions.
This bug really is annoying, with a minor side benefit (when you're using the Minerva Robe and/or Cursed Ring).

Slumber Sword works like FF4A - which is where we know this started from...

Bard's Clothes (the armor Edward starts with) costs 700GP instead of 70GP.

Monster MP = HP/8 instead of HP/16 (this trend started in the WSC version, applied to FF4A and probably the PSP port as well).

Like weapons and shields, the other equipment is highlighted in battle... as if you could use/equip them. However, there is no method that I know that would allow you to switch any armor (non-shields) in battle. I wonder if they stole some code of a different port... like billions of FF1 ports...

 :edit:
Before I sleep... I needed to write this...
Dr. Lugae's Poison Gas in the WSC version only applies Poison status (no damage) to the characters. This also translates to FF4A. The SNES version dealt damage in addition to poison (although generally irrelevant damage).

Item drops are decided after each kill... I'm trying to recall how FF4A calculates it, but I know that the SNES version determines the drops at the end of battle.

Also... despite the music being rather inferior to the original... the WSC version retains the sound effects far better than FF4A (GBA)... pretty damn close to the SNES versions. Most notable sounds include the Legend Sword and the Icebrand.

 :edit:
Blood Lance has the same sound effect as the Legend Sword (or any Holy elemental sword for that matter).

I get the real feeling that the back row bug is still in full force in this game.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:31:29 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2012, 01:32:42 AM »
Weapon elemental weaknesses from the Flame/Ice Armor sets still work like FF4... so it was "fixed" in FF4A.

I've noticed some odd fidgeting that Kain does when he's the middle character... and it usually happens after he jumps. I don't know what to make of that.

 :edit:
There is no monster chest for the Defender.... go figure.

Also, I found it really odd that putting the Bog Witch into Toad status causes her to be "difficult to target" (this is the 6 TinyToad battle version, where she is surrounded by the Toads). This occurs as well in FF4A... but it never happened in the SNES versions.

 :edit:
I never quite understood why Asura's "radius" was moved. Magic and physical attacks still look OK, but it's not centered at all, like the original.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 04:00:40 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #82 on: November 07, 2012, 03:31:16 PM »
The Warlock's battle script is reproduced incorrectly in the WSC port.

The battle script normally looks like this:

When alone,
Attack (end turn),
Cast Weak/Tornado (end turn),
Repeat cycle.

Default behavior...
Cast Fire2/Fira (end turn),
Cast Psych/Osmose (end turn),
Cast Drain (end turn),
Cast Lit-2/Thundara (end turn),
Cast Ice-2/Blizzara (end turn),
Repeat cycle.

The WSC version looks like this...

Default behavior (always)...
Cast Fire2/Fira (end turn),
Cast Psych/Osmose (end turn),
Cast Drain (end turn),
Cast Lit-2/Thundara (end turn),
Cast Lit-2/Thundara (end turn),
Repeat cycle.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2012, 11:06:39 PM »
More updates...

Aim and Throw do not trigger the Counter vs HP damage trigger.

Once in a while, the monster would damage Cecil in a strange visual....

The Enterprise seems to move for some reason, after you get out of the underground with the Falcon's drill.

This version of the game does not implement Berserk resistance through the Ribbon.

Berserk "waits" for others (yay Flan Princess battle testing).

Jump seems to still go through after going under Berserk status through the Flan Princess's Dance. The Berserk bonus is applied to the Jump damage.

 :edit:
Hug/Embrace uses the Break/Stone sound instead of the Cure sound.

 :edit:
The Giant of Babil endgame scenario hasn't changed... so it appears that FF4A made the change.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 12:57:59 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #84 on: November 13, 2012, 04:02:37 PM »
This is probably the very last post regarding the WSC version.

Zeromus does not cast Meteor when critical. This is fixed in FF4A.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2013, 02:32:39 PM »
I didn't know where else to put it and it's not exactly "scientific" nor am I sure it's not been posted somewhere (since it seems very easy to test)

The effect of a weapons/item spell is the Damage of the Actual Spell and the Item's "spell power" appears to be the multiplier. Yet here's an oddity I find difficult to explain. For testing I changed Rod's spell power to 1 and the item spell power to 10. To most enemies it was doing 40-60 damage as the data should show. But of all things it was dealing only one damage to SwordRats.

I set the Rod's Item Power to 255 and it was still dealing 1 damage to SwordRats while dealing low 1000's to everything else. It's fairly strange. Do SwordRats really have any measure of magic defense?
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 Algo - Input Requested
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2013, 03:32:48 PM »
Swordrats have magic defense, and if you've ever bothered using the weaker Ice or Flame Rods on them during your original trip to Mt. Ordeals, you would find that they really suck.
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