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Author Topic: Suggestions  (Read 99490 times)

Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2008, 04:02:41 PM »
I'm not positive on the number, but I think the script has been rewritten 4 or 5 times since that demo. :sleep:

Not to mention another one taking place right now, although it's less of a rewrite and more of a "make sure everything fits with all eight fonts and pull out all the forced linebreaks" thing. Still, it gives me another opportunity to catch any errors, and once the script is 100% complete I plan on sending it to a few people to proofread. The demo was thrown together in a few days, we simply didn't have the time to bother fixing all the known issues before we released it.

the lettuce king

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2008, 08:53:44 PM »
Cameos abound. :D

JCE3000GT

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2008, 09:29:41 PM »
I just want a weapon that acts similar to the Lucky Knife in my HT hack.  Make it have uber stats and randomly cast a good spell but make the hit % like 15-25%.   :blits:  Hehehehe... :laugh:

Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #93 on: August 07, 2008, 01:13:53 AM »
This may sound like something obvious, but your buglist hasn't included a dreadfully obvious bug. Casting Imp on a Imp resistant character (Ribbon or White Cape or otherwise) outside of battle will consume MP. The user is not prevented from casting the spell, causing MP loss and no chance. Just stupidly brilliant. This is fixed in FF6A.

A similar event occurs with Dispel and the Angel Wings/Cherub Down outside of battle. MP consumption is not prevented and Float status isn't removed (for obvious reasons). Luck for you, it is not fixed in FF6A.

So there!

Edit: Fixed my second statement
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 01:42:22 AM by Deathlike2 »
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assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2008, 01:39:25 AM »
how's that a bug?  if the person is stupid enough to cast the spell on an immune character, why shouldn't it cost MP and fail, just like it'd do in battle?  or are you saying outside battle checks should be more stringent than in-battle (e.g. you can't cast Cure on somebody with full HP)?

at any rate, thanks for pointing this out.  i hadn't known that status permanence persists outside battle.  before reading your post, i would have guessed that the Float in your example would be removed.

Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2008, 01:59:28 AM »
how's that a bug?  if the person is stupid enough to cast the spell on an immune character, why shouldn't it cost MP and fail, just like it'd do in battle?  or are you saying outside battle checks should be more stringent than in-battle (e.g. you can't cast Cure on somebody with full HP)?

There are checks made for the spells outside of battle that prevent you from needlessly consume MP. This started since FF5 IIRC, and has probably been the case since.

Quote
at any rate, thanks for pointing this out.  i hadn't known that status permanence persists outside battle.

Eh? You forgot about Float and Clear status (other than Death, Zombie, Stone, Poison, Blind, and I think that's it)?

Quote
before reading your post, i would have guessed that the Float in your example would be removed.

Cherub Down/Angel Wings always enforces Float status, regardless of your current status. The problem though is that Dispel's primary function outside of battle is to remove Float and Clear (though Clear can be rid of much more easily with Cure). There isn't a check to see if perma-float is instituted to prevent Dispel from being cast. Then again, the game has no distinction between Float casted by your own characters and the relic (or equipment) that adds perma-float... so you can actually remove your own Float when equipping and removing this piece of equipment...

As an aside, I don't know how long Float works, but IIRC, it was timer based..
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assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2008, 02:07:22 AM »
Quote from: assassin
at any rate, thanks for pointing this out.  i hadn't known that status permanence persists outside battle.

Eh? You forgot about Float and Clear status (other than Death, Zombie, Stone, Poison, Blind, and I think that's it)?

huh?  i was aware statuses gained in battle could persist afterwards.  as i said, i wasn't aware that status permanence (i.e. inability to remove some statuses granted by equipment) persisted.

Quote
As an aside, I don't know how long Float works, but IIRC, it was timer based..

no, it won't wear off by itself.

Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2008, 02:29:51 AM »
Quote from: assassin
at any rate, thanks for pointing this out.  i hadn't known that status permanence persists outside battle.

Eh? You forgot about Float and Clear status (other than Death, Zombie, Stone, Poison, Blind, and I think that's it)?

huh?  i was aware statuses gained in battle could persist afterwards.  as i said, i wasn't aware that status permanence (i.e. inability to remove some statuses granted by equipment) persisted.

There's always the overlooked exception.

Quote
Quote
As an aside, I don't know how long Float works, but IIRC, it was timer based..

no, it won't wear off by itself.

Ah, ok
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Lenophis

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2008, 12:36:35 PM »
how's that a bug?  if the person is stupid enough to cast the spell on an immune character, why shouldn't it cost MP and fail, just like it'd do in battle?  or are you saying outside battle checks should be more stringent than in-battle (e.g. you can't cast Cure on somebody with full HP)?
To follow up on this, it doesn't stop you in battle from trying to inflict/remove blocked status in battle, and I believe the same code is called between the menu and battles. I believe HP/MP stopping once you're at the max is only handled in the menu to prevent people like me from using a turbo button. :tongue: Definitely quirky, but probably not a bug.

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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2008, 03:54:27 PM »
how's that a bug?  if the person is stupid enough to cast the spell on an immune character, why shouldn't it cost MP and fail, just like it'd do in battle?  or are you saying outside battle checks should be more stringent than in-battle (e.g. you can't cast Cure on somebody with full HP)?
To follow up on this, it doesn't stop you in battle from trying to inflict/remove blocked status in battle, and I believe the same code is called between the menu and battles. I believe HP/MP stopping once you're at the max is only handled in the menu to prevent people like me from using a turbo button. :tongue: Definitely quirky, but probably not a bug.

It's overlooking the issue, either way. I could care less if it's called a bug or not, but after seeing the behavior change (or fix) in FF6A for one of the issues, it's a confirmation of "oops, we fucked up".
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assassin

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #100 on: August 08, 2008, 03:59:37 PM »
hmm.. something i forgot: outside battle, if you try to cast Remedy on somebody with no ailments, or Dispel on somebody with no positive/misc statuses, you'll be prevented.  so in the spirit of that, yeah, the makers probably would have wanted spell prevention in the cases Deathlike2 mentioned.


Quote from: Lenophis
To follow up on this, it doesn't stop you in battle from trying to inflict/remove blocked status in battle, and I believe the same code is called between the menu and battles.

i think C2/4730 partially handles out-of-battle spellcasts and Item usage.  my guess is the other bank's code uses the "statuses to set" variables returned by C2/447F, and if they're null and no damage/healing is done either, it "prevents" the spellcast.    if they're non-null, the spell proceeds.  because immunities are factored out sometime later, even a spell that tries to set or remove only statuses you're immune to won't be thwarted.

i can't find *where* the hell outside battle castings account for immunities, even though they obviously do.

Dragonsbrethren

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #101 on: August 08, 2008, 04:16:00 PM »
It's overlooking the issue, either way. I could care less if it's called a bug or not, but after seeing the behavior change (or fix) in FF6A for one of the issues, it's a confirmation of "oops, we fucked up".

Yeah, I most definitely consider it an oversight. It's similar to FF4, attempting to use a healing item on a party member without the status it heals will get you the "No Need!" message, but you can sit there and waste all your remedies with no problem. Of course FF4 also allows you to waste all your potions, ether, and elixirs on a character with full HP/MP so I'm not sure if it's the best example...

Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2008, 04:24:54 PM »
It's overlooking the issue, either way. I could care less if it's called a bug or not, but after seeing the behavior change (or fix) in FF6A for one of the issues, it's a confirmation of "oops, we fucked up".

Yeah, I most definitely consider it an oversight. It's similar to FF4, attempting to use a healing item on a party member without the status it heals will get you the "No Need!" message, but you can sit there and waste all your remedies with no problem. Of course FF4 also allows you to waste all your potions, ether, and elixirs on a character with full HP/MP so I'm not sure if it's the best example...

The irony of your example though is that FF4A changed it so that Esuna cannot be cast when perfectly healthy characters. The item Remedy was forgotten though.

Some dumbass inconsistantly there by whoever ported this. Although, it seems to me that the spells got all the extra checks made.. not the items, which is actually consistant to an extent. I mean, you can waste Megalixirs at will.  :lame:
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Deathlike2

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #103 on: August 09, 2008, 01:53:13 PM »
Here's a novel idea...

This is a lesser known behavior, and I'm not sure if it has been documented yet (then again...  :bah:)

When you start a game of FF3/6 fresh w/o saves and you run through the intro.. interacting with any part of the intro will allow you to start the game with a time of 0:00 (some hacks seem to force this by requiring you to enter input, others can prevent this it seems...)... within that short span, perhaps you get a special item or something for doing this (not sure how that could be accomplished).
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 03:37:06 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Lenophis

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Re: Suggestions
« Reply #104 on: August 09, 2008, 03:51:04 PM »
When you start a game of FF3/6 fresh w/o saves and you run through the intro.. interacting with any part of the intro will allow you to start the game with a time of 0:00 (some hacks seem to force this by requiring you to enter input)... within that short span, perhaps you get a special item or something for doing this (not sure how that could be accomplished).
So lemme see if I got this right. You want an item just for starting the game? Is Terra's pendant not enough?

The time already starts ticking from 0:00 the instant you hit "new game," so saying the intro shouldn't count is rather pointless. It's 1, maybe 2 minutes.

hmm.. something i forgot: outside battle, if you try to cast Remedy on somebody with no ailments, or Dispel on somebody with no positive/misc statuses, you'll be prevented.  so in the spirit of that, yeah, the makers probably would have wanted spell prevention in the cases Deathlike2 mentioned.
Though I haven't checked, the code at C3/2C14 seems to support that. It's widely uncommented, but I believe it's time to change that. :happy:

Quote
i think C2/4730 partially handles out-of-battle spellcasts and Item usage.  my guess is the other bank's code uses the "statuses to set" variables returned by C2/447F, and if they're null and no damage/healing is done either, it "prevents" the spellcast.    if they're non-null, the spell proceeds.  because immunities are factored out sometime later, even a spell that tries to set or remove only statuses you're immune to won't be thwarted.

i can't find *where* the hell outside battle castings account for immunities, even though they obviously do.
* Lenophis cracks his knuckles

Just one more thing in bank C3 to figure out.

119 bugs fixed and counting.