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Deathlike2

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FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« on: July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM »
For clarification, unlike the Bow+Arrow thread, which did have a bit of personal bias, this thread very likely will end up having more. I will try to be objective, but I cannot guarentee that it will cover all bases.. I'll try to nonetheless. A lot of this will obviously be based on existing data, but will apply some logic that some may not have thought about when it comes to impact of a piece of equipment relative to a portion of a game.

Ok, so onto the info...

Shadow+Iron armor set - Initial Equipment

Simply non-impactful, with the Shadow set being better IIRC than the Iron set (then again Kain has Jump, so it's a wash). One of the rare underrated weapons is the Spear, since it gives Kain 99% hit rate.. and unless he's in the back row (and not Jumping), he's technically doing a lot more reliable damage than Cecil will up to a certain point.

Rydia's initial equipment + Weapon+Armor shops @ Kaipo...

Rydia already has optimal equipment, but won't be able to take advantage of the armor's evasion until her Agility is at 8. The Rod has a decent initial weapon-spell, which has a decent initial spell power, but has a 1x spell multiplier. This can still be stronger than the other elemental Rods when it is vs magic defense, which tends to actually increase overtime with newer monsters, unlike defense. The Bow+Arrow setup is only there for Rosa, unless you like torturing yourself. The Staff is also completely useless, since Poison status isn't exploited until Milon-Z/Scamaglione (undead version). I'm surprised they never made this a White Magic spell. The other strange thing is why the hell are they selling the Cloth Robe... when it has no positive attributes over the Leather Robe...

Cave of the Octomammoth..

IceRod - Once in a blue moon, you may want to try your luck with Rydia hitting, but it's best when she has at least a 2x attack multiplier to increase the chances of a hit. At least you have an alternative to cast a kinda weak Ice-1, but it has a better spell multiplier.. even though the spell power of Ice 1 is weak. It depends whether you want concentrated fire with the Rod vs the potential split damage that the IceRod can provide.. which can be useful for eliminating Zombies which tend to survive a pathetic Tellah's Fire1 or Cure2.

Silver Ring - If you're fortunate, you may get this via a drop by the TinyMage. This has actual impact once you get it, since there are a number of Spirit enemies you face before being able to buy this @ Mysidia.

Leather Hat - One of the few peeves I have is that this armor is only findable early on, yet buyable @ Toroia of all places... it bothers me when the early party is put in a really bad position of "who gets the crappy Cap".

Darkness equipment set - I've got lots of meh, although the weapon is probably the most impactful of them all.

At the Spoony Bard's Domain..

RubyRing - This is a good time to just store them up.. though I can't say it's that useful.. until version 2 of the Dark Elf's battle.. which is most likely when you are not equipping this piece of equipment. I get the feeling this ring needs a stat boost, other than the rarely used Piggy status...

CrossBow - Just for Rosa please.

Bard's Robe - Initially, I thought it was a good idea to just sell this... after finding out it provides Silence resistance.. I was a tad reluctant to do so. There isn't really a technical merit for keeping it over the Leather Robe, but for the small chance that you want Edward to keep singing, Silence protection should be there. It probably needs a stat boost though...

Yang and "The Claw"

Sometimes it seems annoying, but having the FireClaw is great because his hit rate increases, but there are a few monsters that simply aren't receptive to that attack (damn you Spirits+Souls).  Oh well, no big deal I guess.

Once you are able to buy the Black armor set and the oddly priced Claws.. especially when they don't have varying hit rates or anything to justify price differences... it's another meh.

Black Sword/Deathbringer - Great weapon, kills everything that's "underleveled". It's a great weapon to bond with Twins when you're exposing the area north of Mt. Ordeals.

The Town With the Awesome Theme

Paladin equipment set - It would've been nice if they hinted that you should buy this stuff before going up the mountain.. so idiots would not have a right to be stupid. There's only a few peeves that I have with this set, primarily because the next set (the Silver/Mythril set) is effectively the most useless armor set in the game, and I've explained why on the monster type distribution argument thread I wrote a while back. Spirit protection is great if.. you fight them more often than not.

Gaea Hat - This arguably is better than the Paladin Hat... you get evasion, an additional boost to Wisdom/Intelligence (for more magic evasion), and magic defense over the meh-for-defense.

Gaea Robe - I'm not sure who wrote the fucking manual, but it's protection is against gradual petrification... this would've been nice if that was available before Mt. Hobs where the Cockatrice is worth fearing.

Holy Arrows - These are possibly most underrated arrows that people don't bother using for the Twins. They are worth their usage (and it's all fucked up in FF4A anyways) all will mow everything down, minus the Liliths. These become temporarily useless at the Baron Waterway...

Cure Staff - It's better than seeing Tellah fight.. make him and maybe Porom useful.. and play more defensively/conservative if you like to keep guys alive.

Flame Rod - An increased spell multiplier (3x), but it will take some time to kill certain monsters, minus the monsters that absorb this.. either way, you have a choice between reliability vs insta-kill gambles with the Bow+Arrow setup.

Back @ Baron...

Tiara - Taking that extra trip to Mist is worth it. Obviously this is best used on Rydia, but the added extra defense (magic too) with Dragon resistance (which starts being useful at the Tower of Bab-il via Cave Eblana) and Lightning resistance (which is also a benefit vs the same monster) cannot be understated.

Change Rod - This is the best monster neutralizer. It's obviously not going to work for every monster, but since weapon-magic is nearly realiable, you can't really argue against it, plus it makes Tellah a better Black Magic user (to actual reasonable levels).

Whip - Meh since Rydia comes back with one.

Dancing Dagger - This has a decent life span until you reach Tomra. The simple fact this weapon-spell ignores Reflect and has a reasonable better spell power base than the elemental Rods but not the level 2 elementals is a nice boost.

Thunder Rod - Meh, a 4x spell multiplier doesn't give me any "shock" value. It doesn't have the same impact that the Dancing Dagger has.

Karate Robe - Although expensive, it is the best armor available for the Magnetic Cave. You can easily justify the value over the lacking Gaea Robes.. but it won't beat out the Paladin Armor IMO. Besides, it's cheaper that way. Once the twins leave, the extra pair of Robes will go to Cid and Cecil.. which is financially sane. The Strength Boost is a nice bonus.

Headband - This is one of the few pieces of equipment that one should considering buying a set for the entire party. Charm protection is worth the price. The nifty Strength bonus is even better, and this piece of equipment easily beats out the Leather Cap when you are considering equipment options for the Magnetic Cave. In fact, you combine the Karate Robe with the Headband, you get an insta-attack multiplier boost.

Ancient Sword - The only letdown is that this weapon should at least attempt to be stronger than the Legend Sword.. since the status afflication doesn't provide impact until the next attack.

Once You Get the Airship...

Elemental Arrows - They are not impactful for the Magnetic Cave, despite being stronger in attack power. Holy Arrows hold their own much better.

GreatBow - It's reasonable at this point of the game to use, and it's fairly reliable.

Silver Armor Set - Virtually useless set, as the defensive boosts are of minimal impact IMO.

Silver Weapon Set - Most of these are useless.. the Knife is a nice throwaway weapon, the Staff heals like the Unicorn Horn (which is nothing worth speaking of), the Sword is surpassed by the Slumber Sword easily, and the Hammer is a nice bump.. but if the Wooden Hammer kept its Lit-2 weapon-spell property, ths Silver Hammer would be useless to me. In fact, it would make the trek through the Tower of Zot much easier (especially with the Pudding/Flan monsters).

*Hand Axe - Although this was never included in the original, after testing this out in Paladin's hack, I believe this weapon sucks if it was inserted in this scenario (it would suck more than the Legend Sword too).. primarily because of its shit-for-hit-rate. This weapon is not better than the original Wooden Hammer, and it's metallic to boot.. so even if you have Cid with the best defense, he couldn't hit a lick.

Edit: More to be added later.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 02:57:02 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 03:10:48 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Shadow+Iron armor set - Initial Equipment

Simply non-impactful, with the Shadow set being better IIRC than the Iron set (then again Kain has Jump, so it's a wash). One of the rare underrated weapons is the Spear, since it gives Kain 99% hit rate.. and unless he's in the back row (and not Jumping), he's technically doing a lot more reliable damage than Cecil will up to a certain point.

The dark knight equipment being to similar to the normal equipment has always bothered me. Everything storyline-wise tells you that dark knights are supposed to be incredibly powerful, yet in-game it never really shows for Cecil unless he's stuck in a party of mages (Which he is the majority of the time you have him). Of course you don't want to make him too overpowered, but it would've been nice if the dark gear had higher magic defense and holy resistance or something.

Interestingly they gave dark knight Cecil the ability to equip the iron shield in the DS version but none of the other iron equipment. At first I thought it was a simple mistake, but it turns out the two dark shields are holy resistant (And as such weak against dark), they probably expected you to use the iron shield when facing undead. I never bothered confirming if the undead in the DS version attack with dark or not, my guess is they do, I'll look into it next playthrough.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Rydia's initial equipment + Weapon+Armor shops @ Kaipo...

Rydia already has optimal equipment, but won't be able to take advantage of the armor's evasion until her Agility is at 8. The Rod has a decent initial weapon-spell, which has a decent initial spell power, but has a 1x spell multiplier. This can still be stronger than the other elemental Rods when it is vs magic defense, which tends to actually increase overtime with newer monsters, unlike defense. The Bow+Arrow setup is only there for Rosa, unless you like torturing yourself. The Staff is also completely useless, since Poison status isn't exploited until Milon-Z/Scamaglione (undead version). I'm surprised they never made this a White Magic spell. The other strange thing is why the hell are they selling the Cloth Robe... when it has no positive attributes over the Leather Robe...

The only logical reason I see for selling the cloth/clothing is for completeness. Similar to the iron equipment at Agart although one could argue that was intended for Cid...ignoring the fact that the stuff at Baron is far better for him.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Cave of the Octomammoth..

IceRod - Once in a blue moon, you may want to try your luck with Rydia hitting, but it's best when she has at least a 2x attack multiplier to increase the chances of a hit. At least you have an alternative to cast a kinda weak Ice-1, but it has a better spell multiplier.. even though the spell power of Ice 1 is weak. It depends whether you want concentrated fire with the Rod vs the potential split damage that the IceRod can provide.. which can be useful for eliminating Zombies which tend to survive a pathetic Tellah's Fire1 or Cure2.

Silver Ring - If you're fortunate, you may get this via a drop by the TinyMage. This has actual impact once you get it, since there are a number of Spirit enemies you face before being able to buy this @ Mysidia.

Leather Hat - One of the few peeves I have is that this armor is only findable early on, yet buyable @ Toroia of all places... it bothers me when the early party is put in a really bad position of "who gets the crappy Cap".

Darkness equipment set - I've got lots of meh, although the weapon is probably the most impactful of them all.

The only time I attack with the ice rod is against turtles/adamantoises, its anti-reptile property can take them down very quickly if you get a good whack on them.

"who gets the crappy Cap" :laugh:

The darkness/Hades set should have come with some other resistance, maybe fire for those pesky spirits (Or ice if you're going for the "Cecil sucks here" angle). I don't know why they ditched the darkness status on the darkness sword/shadowblade, I can't really see it making the weapon too powerful.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
At the Spoony Bard's Domain..

RubyRing - This is a good time to just store them up.. though I can't say it's that useful.. until version 2 of the Dark Elf's battle.. which is most likely when you are not equipping this piece of equipment. I get the feeling this ring needs a stat boost, other than the rarely used Piggy status...

CrossBow - Just for Rosa please.

Bard's Robe - Initially, I thought it was a good idea to just sell this... after finding out it provides Silence resistance.. I was a tad reluctant to do so. There isn't really a technical merit for keeping it over the Leather Robe, but for the small chance that you want Edward to keep singing, Silence protection should be there. It probably needs a stat boost though...

You know, every playthrough I hold onto that bard's tunic and never bother actually using it. Lilith is (Probably, I may have forgotten some) the only enemy that can silence you before you have access to rune rings, and she's rare enough that I don't bother equipping it on the mountain.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Yang and "The Claw"

Sometimes it seems annoying, but having the FireClaw is great because his hit rate increases, but there are a few monsters that simply aren't receptive to that attack (damn you Spirits+Souls).  Oh well, no big deal I guess.

Once you are able to buy the Black armor set and the oddly priced Claws.. especially when they don't have varying hit rates or anything to justify price differences... it's another meh.

Black Sword/Deathbringer - Great weapon, kills everything that's "underleveled". It's a great weapon to bond with Twins when you're exposing the area north of Mt. Ordeals.

Generally I have the fire claw on Yang unless I have a good reason to be using something else. Early on I got myself convinced that it was stronger than the others and that habit stuck long after I learned that it wasn't.

:edit:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
The Town With the Awesome Theme

Paladin equipment set - It would've been nice if they hinted that you should buy this stuff before going up the mountain.. so idiots would not have a right to be stupid. There's only a few peeves that I have with this set, primarily because the next set (the Silver/Mythril set) is effectively the most useless armor set in the game, and I've explained why on the monster type distribution argument thread I wrote a while back. Spirit protection is great if.. you fight them more often than not.

Gaea Hat - This arguably is better than the Paladin Hat... you get evasion, an additional boost to Wisdom/Intelligence (for more magic evasion), and magic defense over the meh-for-defense.

Gaea Robe - I'm not sure who wrote the fucking manual, but it's protection is against gradual petrification... this would've been nice if that was available before Mt. Hobs where the Cockatrice is worth fearing.

Holy Arrows - These are possibly most underrated arrows that people don't bother using for the Twins. They are worth their usage (and it's all fucked up in FF4A anyways) all will mow everything down, minus the Liliths. These become temporarily useless at the Baron Waterway...

Cure Staff - It's better than seeing Tellah fight.. make him and maybe Porom useful.. and play more defensively/conservative if you like to keep guys alive.

Flame Rod - An increased spell multiplier (3x), but it will take some time to kill certain monsters, minus the monsters that absorb this.. either way, you have a choice between reliability vs insta-kill gambles with the Bow+Arrow setup.

If said idiots can't piece together "I'm supposed to climb up the mountain to become a paladin, maybe this paladin equipment would be useful for the return trip..." then they don't deserve to be playing this great game. :blits:

They have slightly more of an excuse in any version that isn't FF2us or FF4 PSX because the item names are a bit less descriptive. Only a bit though, "light/lustrous" and "knight's" are more than enough to tip me off that that stuff is intended for a holy knight, if the other three pieces are the gauntlets probably are as well.

The gaia gear...to be honest I never even realized it prevented gradual petrification until I read it in a walkthrough years after I started playing the game. There are a number of places it's useful, but old habits die hard and I usually forget about equipping it.

I usually go the flame rod and healing staves route, although sometimes I'll give Porom the crossbow and holy arrows. They made the Heal spell's animation ridiculously slow in the DS version, to the point I swear they did it on purpose so you didn't spam it every turn, it's about twice as slow as Cure's animation, maybe worse...

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Back @ Baron...

Tiara - Taking that extra trip to Mist is worth it. Obviously this is best used on Rydia, but the added extra defense (magic too) with Dragon resistance (which starts being useful at the Tower of Bab-il via Cave Eblana) and Lightning resistance (which is also a benefit vs the same monster) cannot be understated.

Change Rod - This is the best monster neutralizer. It's obviously not going to work for every monster, but since weapon-magic is nearly realiable, you can't really argue against it, plus it makes Tellah a better Black Magic user (to actual reasonable levels).

Whip - Meh since Rydia comes back with one.

Dancing Dagger - This has a decent life span until you reach Tomra. The simple fact this weapon-spell ignores Reflect and has a reasonable better spell power base than the elemental Rods but not the level 2 elementals is a nice boost.

Thunder Rod - Meh, a 4x spell multiplier doesn't give me any "shock" value. It doesn't have the same impact that the Dancing Dagger has.

Karate Robe - Although expensive, it is the best armor available for the Magnetic Cave. You can easily justify the value over the lacking Gaea Robes.. but it won't beat out the Paladin Armor IMO. Besides, it's cheaper that way. Once the twins leave, the extra pair of Robes will go to Cid and Cecil.. which is financially sane. The Strength Boost is a nice bonus.

Headband - This is one of the few pieces of equipment that one should considering buying a set for the entire party. Charm protection is worth the price. The nifty Strength bonus is even better, and this piece of equipment easily beats out the Leather Cap when you are considering equipment options for the Magnetic Cave. In fact, you combine the Karate Robe with the Headband, you get an insta-attack multiplier boost.

Ancient Sword - The only letdown is that this weapon should at least attempt to be stronger than the Legend Sword.. since the status afflication doesn't provide impact until the next attack.

It's a damn shame the change/polymorph rod is all but useless in the DS version. My favorite thing about it is that it's only good for nullifying magical attacks, physicals are just as dangerous as before, which prevents it from being overpowered.

The whip may have been useful if Porom could equip it, as you already mentioned the holy arrows aren't very good in the waterway and staves are garbage. The healing staff's Heal spell is really getting worthless at this point.

The dancing dagger is awesome...perhaps too awesome. It pretty much replaces Rydia's attack command (Mine literally did in the DS version) until Tomra as you say. Maybe that's not a fault with the dagger but with the other equipment.

I've never even bothered with the ancient sword, it's just not worth the attack power reduction.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 02:18:31 PM
Once You Get the Airship...

Elemental Arrows - They are not impactful for the Magnetic Cave, despite being stronger in attack power. Holy Arrows hold their own much better.

GreatBow - It's reasonable at this point of the game to use, and it's fairly reliable.

Silver Armor Set - Virtually useless set, as the defensive boosts are of minimal impact IMO.

Silver Weapon Set - Most of these are useless.. the Knife is a nice throwaway weapon, the Staff heals like the Unicorn Horn (which is nothing worth speaking of), the Sword is surpassed by the Slumber Sword easily, and the Hammer is a nice bump.. but if the Wooden Hammer kept its Lit-2 weapon-spell property, ths Silver Hammer would be useless to me. In fact, it would make the trek through the Tower of Zot much easier (especially with the Pudding/Flan monsters).

*Hand Axe - Although this was never included in the original, after testing this out in Paladin's hack, I believe this weapon sucks if it was inserted in this scenario (it would suck more than the Legend Sword too).. primarily because of its shit-for-hit-rate. This weapon is not better than the original Wooden Hammer, and it's metallic to boot.. so even if you have Cid with the best defense, he couldn't hit a lick.

Ah, so I'm not the only one who goes through there with holy arrows. Again I had this incorrect notion that fire was somehow the best of the three for the longest time.

FF4 DS makes that place painful for Cecil...because he can't use a bow or a staff he's stuck using elemental "shards," tiny wooden daggers which have 5 attack power. I completely forgot to check if they can cast magic or not, that might be their one saving grace, otherwise they're just garbage.

The whole silver/mythril weapon set is utterly worthless, the only one I could justify buying would be the hammer, and even that's not really worth it. Same goes for the armor for the most part, this needs some huge advantage over the paladin gear if they want me to use it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 04:06:25 PM by Dragonsbrethren »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 04:42:58 PM »
There was this one point in time where I thought having two FireClaws was better than one.  :isuck:

Anyways..

If you bothered with Eblan Castle..

Slumber Sword - It's certainly worth the gamble, since it is a gap weapon between the Fire Sword and Silver Sword. Since Sleep is primarily level based, it's success is tough to gage sometimes.. although FF4A made it pretty overpowered by design (making Sleep work 100% of the time).

Mute Arrows - You'll buy them later, but for only a small set, it's primarily non-impactful.. although it's best day is if you use it vs the Magus Sisters. It's amazing how a 4x attack power modifer shreds stuff quickly.

Drain/Blood Spear - There was a point that I used this exclusively, but stopped when I wanted reliability. I guess it's the answer for the Flans/Pudding you meet at the Tower of Bab-il (underground), but meh. Although, this is my favorite weapon vs the Mad Ogres... especially when it comes to monster harvesting. There's a lot to be said when it comes to "free healing"... though the Ogre Axe and its complement, the Blood Sword is actually more reliable.. which make shock some people.

A Lot of Trash Later and the Invisible Tower of Zot

Prisoner's Robe - I forgot about this, but the Sleep property may be worth it, but it's more or less like a Cloth that actually has some value. It's nice that you get a pair, (Is Rosa sexier in stripes? Cid probably says no.)

Charm Claw - It's got to be the most awesome, overpowered, and yet perhaps balanced weapon for Yang. The hit rate is the equivalent of fist, but Charm status is worth the bonus, even if your overall damage is lowered as a result.. you can trash Ogres and other Giants like candy. Plus, it boosts Agility, which cannot be said for any weapon up to this point in the game.

Strength Ring/Power Wrist - A common drop by Ogres is actually worth over the crappy Mythril/Silver Gloves. You're not giving up much... too bad it's still metallic.

Zeus/Giant's Gloves - Even better than the above option, and isn't metallic.. it's actually pretty damn good for gloves, until late game. The lack of magic defense is not a big deal, considering the alternatives, plus feeling overpowered is good. However, this is a rare drop and is "much easier" to obtain in the Tower of Bab-il via Cave Eblana...

Fire Armor - It is put in the most interesting spot, if only to allow you to rape yourself when you fight the FlameDog for the Fire Sword. Amusing nonetheless.

Fire Sword - Burrrrnn. Its best attribute arguably can be its worst attribute later on. Go figure.

Flame Shield - This is handy if you want to use this later for elemental protection... it's best in shield form IMO.

Poison Claw - The status effect is useless, which is the same as my opinion on Poison Arrows, which I forgot to mention earlier, but it's worth pointing out here... the major benefit is increasing the hit rate, if not allow balancing out with the Charm Claw, which has a weak hit rate. Strength boost is more of a "meh" bonus.

Poison Arrows - Dropped by the entire set of Hydra enemies (and a few Naga varients)... it's stronger for when you have it, but Poison is the most non-impactful status on a weapon that there ever was, unless used against you...

Earth Hammer - Making it Fire elemental is perfect for what you need it for.. plus a free Quake spell is insta-Flan killer (it's better than other alternatives, which includes Yang using is Build Up/Power command).

Wizard Robe - This is the only time that Tellah looks actually competant with his Cure3/Curaga (well, particularly if it is single targeted)... too bad he still sucks.

Rune Ring - If you fight a lot of those Marion guys, you may get a few of these. The longevity of this ring can extend to the Lunar Subterraine as the Diamond Ring is not really impressive. Silence protection plus some stat boost may even make Tellah look like a genius.. for two seconds. Plus, the Mage protection would be a bonus if you do a lot of monster harvesting to boot.

Silence Staff - This is one of the few weapons worth looking to acquire, given that relative to Rosa's other weapons for a time period, this is actually a good weapon (well, you will auto-abuse the back row bit right?) Plus, Silence is a handy spell (although it's cheap to cast) plus it will be better than any staff you could buy, up to a point. This is worthy of a look. At least you are given many chances of acquiring this....

Wind Spear - I wonder why it can't be thrown (I mean who's dumb idea is this?)... it's only close to the Slumber Sword, but not by much.

The Dwarves and Their Freaky Eyes

Flame Spear - Free Fire2 makes killing Dark Imps a breeze. It's not that handy overall, but I like free stuff...

Dwarf Axe - I often wonder why this doesn't have the Air elemental, especially given the weapon itself. Oh well, at least there's a nice axe throwing animation (via the Throw command) that normally gets seen in FF4ET... This weapon is underrated, but annoying at the same time. I don't like the Agility loss in addition to the Wisdom/Will/Intellgence/Spirit loss... but oh well. These are better weapons vs those FlameDogs, and particular the damned Chimera.

Darkness Arrows - As I said before, they are underrated primarily because Ice Arrows tend to be more effective at killing many of the underground's vile. This is one of the few status afficting weapons that are worth it if you want a monster's counter or spell to become far weaker... if they aren't resistant.

Wizard Hat - Undead resistance is a nice bonus.. anyone who doesn't recognize the massive undead usage is crazy. Plus, Cecil can equip this.. which is an improvement over all the previous options.

Medusa Arrows - Very powerful stuff, if you are overleveled...

Black Belt - It's an improvement over the Karate Robe (I didn't realize it until many years later) but can be used to improve Rosa's offense, though sacraficing Will Power/Spirit bonuses... though Kain+Cecil can definately benefit...

I forgot to mention...

Charm Harp - This harp is better for Edward obviously.. but for the Battle @ Fabul.. it is useless vs the General.. since he'll make his soldiers attack. The Dreamer Harp is still better for stopping the General...

Back to everything else...

CatClaw - You could probably get it early via lucky drops.. but it's a pretty damn good option for putting most monsters to Sleep.. since Yang tends to gain levels quickly, he will make short work of monsters anyways.

IceBrand - Better than the Fire Sword, but the Fire Sword may have a few uses before you really want to sell it.. elemental blades vs Chimera = poop.

Blizzard Spear - Ice2 is a nice Tofu killer.. especially in the few formations they appear in. Still sucky vs Chimera.

Ice Shield - The best attribute is protection against Reptiles.. but an even better idea is to use them in conjunction with the Fire Armor for great elemental protection (except if Cecil or Kain hit themselves, which actually can be very devastating).

Ice Armor - The shield is better.. but it's best to pair with the Fire Shield. You know, those Chimera and FlameDogs don't look so tough then (except everyone that is not named Kain or Cecil will be torched).

Bandanna - It's an improvement over the Headband, but I'd still keep the Headband for later...

Archer Bow - Another Meh.. even though the boost is nice.

After The Cannon Goes Kaboom!...

Black Robe - The weirdest armor ever when it isn't the original FF4... go figure. Ultimately I believe this was supposed to help Rydia survive Rubicante.. but eh.. it's not that helpful.

Boomerang - This weapon is perhaps worth a look. There's a number of enemies that can be exposed by it, despite it being weaker overall, but can easily expose the Back Row bug for Edge... probably one of the few underrated weapons.

Power Staff - If they kept the Berserk spell of this staff, it would've been more useful. There are very impactful consequences when Berserking enemies on hit, even though this allows Rosa to be a better fighter.. with a staff... it may not be worth that hassle. Berserk tends to be a benefical status, and people who don't realize that need to rethink the number of times they use the Fight/Attack command...

Middle Katana - If it's actual impact is to allow the Short Katana to be thrown away, that's about it.. I don't get why more of his Katana can't be thrown away. I can understand the elemental swords, but not this? Go figure.

More to come later... in a separate post starting @ Tomra.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 05:25:28 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 06:06:26 PM »
Ok, back to Tomra..

The Town With Lava is Water...

Drain Sword - I forgot about this, but this weapon is better than its counterpart, the Drain Spear. At least it doesn't share the same negative properties...

Ogre Axe - If you don't have an appreciation for the Drain weaponry, you get this. If we go by the FF4 stats, this weapon primarily is supposed to be an Ogre option, not the "Ice Weaponry Replacement" that it is in FF2 or FF4ET...

Chain Whip - It becomes a tough decision to try this weapon over the Dancing Knife, but the Dancing Knife's impact has diminished at this point...

Mute Arrows - Useless once you get the Elven Bow, but it is a good option if the Elven Bow didn't exist... Mage killing is worth it, given its distribution at this point of the game.

Diamond Armor Set - It's actually not that good, outside of the shield and the armor... the bulk of it is pretty unimpressive, especially when all of the armor pieces have lightning protection. The Diamond Ring is most beneficial on Edge, since the Tiara already covers such protection, plus it's not that much better overall defensively.. let alone the stat boosts (which they are non-existant)... I don't understand why there isn't any Mech protection.. which would've been useful later...

If You Like Areas That Abuse Statuses..

Elven Bow - These make every arrow insta-Mute Arrows. It is the best bow overall, particularly late game where you don't need Aim anymore... plus you get a free Shell...

Charm Rod - Underrated and underused... I don't know how to explain this weapon further.

Avenger Sword - Probably the best weapon if you don't need to do monster harvesting... it's a great Sealed Cave option, especially when you need to make every hit count.

Fullmoon Boomerang - This is a dramatic upgrade, up to the level of the Long Sword, with a slightly lower hit rate. Plus, "it's good to keep up with the Joneses" or whatever that quote was supposed to be.

The Three Headed Bitch and The Tidal King..

Samurai Bow/Arrow - Nothing worth speaking about, although the Bow is strong.. it's not that impressive IMO.

Defense Sword - It's hard to argue against one of the stronger weapons, plus the additional free Protect magic is always an awesome bonus.

Poison Axe - One of the more disappointing weapons that exist... the additional Poison weapon-spell doesn't excite anyone. Being 2-handed is a drag... but if you need the extra anti-Giant power, go for it.

Ninja Katana - This is a nice weapon since you have to get out of your way to obtain it.. just like the Defender.

Long Katana - It's not special, and you can't throw it.. and you eventually get a free pair of them in the end... completely useless IMO compared to the Fullmoon Boomerang.

Lunar Staff - It's unimpressive, since Dispel is unimpressive, and the Silence Staff is better.. but this weapon is overall unimpressive... just like FuSoYa too. Doesn't it feel wrong to put down shitty equipment?

Charm Arrows - It's nice, but I get the feeling it's unimpressive, yet underrated. Killing a few Giant monsters is nifty, but Charm status itself is the most unimpressive at this point in the game.. and the damage isn't too worthy of mention IMO.

Blitz Whip - Unimpactful, but I guess that's better than all other previous Whip options... the elemental property isn't useful either

Aegis Shield - This is probably the best shield in the game... if only because it provides a decent status to protect (don't want those Karys/Moon Goddesses to be that close) and provides the most magic defense of any shield (not magic evade, but it's not that bad either way). Plus, the extra Wisdom/Intelligence can't hurt magic defense.

Sorceror's Robe - Good for everyone that can use it, and strangely, it has better stats than some of the late armor you can get. Strange, but true.. Undead protection and Lightning resistance is hard to argue against... better than the Diamond Armor.

Final Equipment and End Rants To Be Addressed Later...
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 06:08:11 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 04:42:58 PM
There was this one point in time where I thought having two FireClaws was better than one.  :isuck:

Ha ha, same here.  :tongue:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 04:42:58 PM
Anyways..

If you bothered with Eblan Castle..

Slumber Sword - It's certainly worth the gamble, since it is a gap weapon between the Fire Sword and Silver Sword. Since Sleep is primarily level based, it's success is tough to gage sometimes.. although FF4A made it pretty overpowered by design (making Sleep work 100% of the time).

Mute Arrows - You'll buy them later, but for only a small set, it's primarily non-impactful.. although it's best day is if you use it vs the Magus Sisters. It's amazing how a 4x attack power modifer shreds stuff quickly.

Drain/Blood Spear - There was a point that I used this exclusively, but stopped when I wanted reliability. I guess it's the answer for the Flans/Pudding you meet at the Tower of Bab-il (underground), but meh. Although, this is my favorite weapon vs the Mad Ogres... especially when it comes to monster harvesting. There's a lot to be said when it comes to "free healing"... though the Ogre Axe and its complement, the Blood Sword is actually more reliable.. which make shock some people.

The sleep blade suffers from "too damn many swords" syndrome, you get to use it for a very short time before it's made obsolete by the flame sword, has a short time again in the Tower of Babil before getting the icebrand, and maybe you'll equip it if you want to use its status against something later in the game.

I never thought about using the mute arrows on the Magus Sisters, I'll have to give that a try the next time I play anything other than the DS version.

I used to really like the drain equipment, but the low hit rates make them useless to me except for the same situations you mentioned.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 04:42:58 PM
A Lot of Trash Later and the Invisible Tower of Zot

Prisoner's Robe - I forgot about this, but the Sleep property may be worth it, but it's more or less like a Cloth that actually has some value. It's nice that you get a pair, (Is Rosa sexier in stripes? Cid probably says no.)

Charm Claw - It's got to be the most awesome, overpowered, and yet perhaps balanced weapon for Yang. The hit rate is the equivalent of fist, but Charm status is worth the bonus, even if your overall damage is lowered as a result.. you can trash Ogres and other Giants like candy. Plus, it boosts Agility, which cannot be said for any weapon up to this point in the game.

Strength Ring/Power Wrist - A common drop by Ogres is actually worth over the crappy Mythril/Silver Gloves. You're not giving up much... too bad it's still metallic.

Zeus/Giant's Gloves - Even better than the above option, and isn't metallic.. it's actually pretty damn good for gloves, until late game. The lack of magic defense is not a big deal, considering the alternatives, plus feeling overpowered is good. However, this is a rare drop and is "much easier" to obtain in the Tower of Bab-il via Cave Eblana...

Fire Armor - It is put in the most interesting spot, if only to allow you to rape yourself when you fight the FlameDog for the Fire Sword. Amusing nonetheless.

Fire Sword - Burrrrnn. Its best attribute arguably can be its worst attribute later on. Go figure.

Flame Shield - This is handy if you want to use this later for elemental protection... it's best in shield form IMO.

Poison Claw - The status effect is useless, which is the same as my opinion on Poison Arrows, which I forgot to mention earlier, but it's worth pointing out here... the major benefit is increasing the hit rate, if not allow balancing out with the Charm Claw, which has a weak hit rate. Strength boost is more of a "meh" bonus.

Poison Arrows - Dropped by the entire set of Hydra enemies (and a few Naga varients)... it's stronger for when you have it, but Poison is the most non-impactful status on a weapon that there ever was, unless used against you...

Earth Hammer - Making it Fire elemental is perfect for what you need it for.. plus a free Quake spell is insta-Flan killer (it's better than other alternatives, which includes Yang using is Build Up/Power command).

Wizard Robe - This is the only time that Tellah looks actually competant with his Cure3/Curaga (well, particularly if it is single targeted)... too bad he still sucks.

Rune Ring - If you fight a lot of those Marion guys, you may get a few of these. The longevity of this ring can extend to the Lunar Subterraine as the Diamond Ring is not really impressive. Silence protection plus some stat boost may even make Tellah look like a genius.. for two seconds. Plus, the Mage protection would be a bonus if you do a lot of monster harvesting to boot.

Silence Staff - This is one of the few weapons worth looking to acquire, given that relative to Rosa's other weapons for a time period, this is actually a good weapon (well, you will auto-abuse the back row bit right?) Plus, Silence is a handy spell (although it's cheap to cast) plus it will be better than any staff you could buy, up to a point. This is worthy of a look. At least you are given many chances of acquiring this....

Wind Spear - I wonder why it can't be thrown (I mean who's dumb idea is this?)... it's only close to the Slumber Sword, but not by much.

The prisoner's wear...I usually don't bother holding on to them. In theory sleep resistance is good, in practice I'd rather have better stats. Dr. Lugae is probably the only place I can think of where it would be any good.

The charm/fairy claw is something I overlooked for far too long, the thing is just plain awesome.

I've never really used the strength/power armlet, then again I don't recall ever getting one this early. I agree with you on the Zeus/giant's gloves but I hardly ever get them.

I was really surprised with how useful the poison claw became in the DS version, poison damage occurs at an acceptable rate and Barbariccia is actually vulnerable to it. I didn't get the poison arrows for Rosa but they make a nice upgrade at this point in ever version even if the effect is useless.

I love the silence/rune staff, it's probably the only staff I'll chose over a bow and arrow for Rosa.

With a name like "wind spear" you'd think it would be useless against Barbariccia, but even in the DS version where there's an actual wind element it still does full damage against her.


Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 04:42:58 PM
The Dwarves and Their Freaky Eyes

Flame Spear - Free Fire2 makes killing Dark Imps a breeze. It's not that handy overall, but I like free stuff...

Dwarf Axe - I often wonder why this doesn't have the Air elemental, especially given the weapon itself. Oh well, at least there's a nice axe throwing animation (via the Throw command) that normally gets seen in FF4ET... This weapon is underrated, but annoying at the same time. I don't like the Agility loss in addition to the Wisdom/Will/Intellgence/Spirit loss... but oh well. These are better weapons vs those FlameDogs, and particular the damned Chimera.

Darkness Arrows - As I said before, they are underrated primarily because Ice Arrows tend to be more effective at killing many of the underground's vile. This is one of the few status afficting weapons that are worth it if you want a monster's counter or spell to become far weaker... if they aren't resistant.

Wizard Hat - Undead resistance is a nice bonus.. anyone who doesn't recognize the massive undead usage is crazy. Plus, Cecil can equip this.. which is an improvement over all the previous options.

Medusa Arrows - Very powerful stuff, if you are overleveled...

Black Belt - It's an improvement over the Karate Robe (I didn't realize it until many years later) but can be used to improve Rosa's offense, though sacraficing Will Power/Spirit bonuses... though Kain+Cecil can definately benefit...

I forgot to mention...

Charm Harp - This harp is better for Edward obviously.. but for the Battle @ Fabul.. it is useless vs the General.. since he'll make his soldiers attack. The Dreamer Harp is still better for stopping the General...

Back to everything else...

CatClaw - You could probably get it early via lucky drops.. but it's a pretty damn good option for putting most monsters to Sleep.. since Yang tends to gain levels quickly, he will make short work of monsters anyways.

IceBrand - Better than the Fire Sword, but the Fire Sword may have a few uses before you really want to sell it.. elemental blades vs Chimera = poop.

Blizzard Spear - Ice2 is a nice Tofu killer.. especially in the few formations they appear in. Still sucky vs Chimera.

Ice Shield - The best attribute is protection against Reptiles.. but an even better idea is to use them in conjunction with the Fire Armor for great elemental protection (except if Cecil or Kain hit themselves, which actually can be very devastating).

Ice Armor - The shield is better.. but it's best to pair with the Fire Shield. You know, those Chimera and FlameDogs don't look so tough then (except everyone that is not named Kain or Cecil will be torched).

Bandanna - It's an improvement over the Headband, but I'd still keep the Headband for later...

Kain's elemental lances bother me. Or maybe it's the elemental swords, either way it seems like a real waste to have two nearly identical weapons for both elements. The lances are a little better with their anti-aerial element and level 2 magic. Maybe it's just the fact that Kain can equip both the swords and lances that bothers me.

The dwarf axe is really cool, it is odd that it's not anti-aerial. I used to equip this on Cecil and throw him in the back row until I got the icebrand, of course now that I know about the back row bug I could easily leave him back there with the icebrand... It's too bad there's nothing this is really good against, it got an upgrade in the DS version so it's stronger than the ice-elemental weaponry at least, so you'd want to use it over them when not hitting a weakness.

:edit:

I take too damn long typing my posts... :sad:

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 04:42:58 PM
After The Cannon Goes Kaboom!...

Black Robe - The weirdest armor ever when it isn't the original FF4... go figure. Ultimately I believe this was supposed to help Rydia survive Rubicante.. but eh.. it's not that helpful.

Boomerang - This weapon is perhaps worth a look. There's a number of enemies that can be exposed by it, despite it being weaker overall, but can easily expose the Back Row bug for Edge... probably one of the few underrated weapons.

Power Staff - If they kept the Berserk spell of this staff, it would've been more useful. There are very impactful consequences when Berserking enemies on hit, even though this allows Rosa to be a better fighter.. with a staff... it may not be worth that hassle. Berserk tends to be a benefical status, and people who don't realize that need to rethink the number of times they use the Fight/Attack command...

Middle Katana - If it's actual impact is to allow the Short Katana to be thrown away, that's about it.. I don't get why more of his Katana can't be thrown away. I can understand the elemental swords, but not this? Go figure.

The black robe is made even more pointless in the DS version, Rydia returns with a luminous/sorcerer robe equipped. This is the norm for the DS version, characters tend to come with equipment you'd actually want to use equipped, but it outclasses her first "upgrade" by so much it's ridiculous. I bought one anyway and traded the luminous robe off to Rosa.

I used to give Edge two boomerangs and stick him in the back row, but I never really liked them.

I fully agree on the power staff, I gave that a very cool upgrade in my hack.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 06:14:48 PM by Dragonsbrethren »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2008, 06:31:16 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 06:06:26 PM
Ok, back to Tomra..

The Town With Lava is Water...

Drain Sword - I forgot about this, but this weapon is better than its counterpart, the Drain Spear. At least it doesn't share the same negative properties...

Ogre Axe - If you don't have an appreciation for the Drain weaponry, you get this. If we go by the FF4 stats, this weapon primarily is supposed to be an Ogre option, not the "Ice Weaponry Replacement" that it is in FF2 or FF4ET...

Chain Whip - It becomes a tough decision to try this weapon over the Dancing Knife, but the Dancing Knife's impact has diminished at this point...

Mute Arrows - Useless once you get the Elven Bow, but it is a good option if the Elven Bow didn't exist... Mage killing is worth it, given its distribution at this point of the game.

Diamond Armor Set - It's actually not that good, outside of the shield and the armor... the bulk of it is pretty unimpressive, especially when all of the armor pieces have lightning protection. The Diamond Ring is most beneficial on Edge, since the Tiara already covers such protection, plus it's not that much better overall defensively.. let alone the stat boosts (which they are non-existant)... I don't understand why there isn't any Mech protection.. which would've been useful later...

I've already mentioned that I upgrade the dancing dagger to a chain whip here, Rydia does better damage and paralysis occurs fairly often. What I don't understand are the people who say you should never give her whips because she isn't an attacker...how much ether do these people burn through? If I had her cast magic every battle I doubt I'd make it through any of the dungeons down here without running out of MP, even the Cave of Summoned Monsters.

The diamond equipment is something I buy out of habit that I should really stop doing, just pick up the shield.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 06:06:26 PM
If You Like Areas That Abuse Statuses..

Elven Bow - These make every arrow insta-Mute Arrows. It is the best bow overall, particularly late game where you don't need Aim anymore... plus you get a free Shell...

Charm Rod - Underrated and underused... I don't know how to explain this weapon further.

Avenger Sword - Probably the best weapon if you don't need to do monster harvesting... it's a great Sealed Cave option, especially when you need to make every hit count.

Fullmoon Boomerang - This is a dramatic upgrade, up to the level of the Long Sword, with a slightly lower hit rate. Plus, "it's good to keep up with the Joneses" or whatever that quote was supposed to be.

I equip the charm/fairy rod for the wisdom/intellect bonus when I know I'm not going to have her attack at all, other than that I don't have much use for it. I suppose confuse could be useful in some places, I just never bothered figuring out where.

I have the avenger equipped on Kain from the time I get it until he leaves, then when he comes back for most of the battles. It's the best weapon in the game but most people overlook it for some reason. When I was reading the DS version walkthrough they actually said it was a "novelty weapon," then suggested using berserk on fighters during the demon wall battle...see the problem here? It may be a few points weaker than what else you'd be using (Probably the poison axe believe it or not, when it's not two-handed it's actually pretty good) but you certainly get an edge by not having to wait for Rosa to cast Berserk on him.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 06:06:26 PM
The Three Headed Bitch and The Tidal King..

Samurai Bow/Arrow - Nothing worth speaking about, although the Bow is strong.. it's not that impressive IMO.

Defense Sword - It's hard to argue against one of the stronger weapons, plus the additional free Protect magic is always an awesome bonus.

Poison Axe - One of the more disappointing weapons that exist... the additional Poison weapon-spell doesn't excite anyone. Being 2-handed is a drag... but if you need the extra anti-Giant power, go for it.

Ninja Katana - This is a nice weapon since you have to get out of your way to obtain it.. just like the Defender.

Long Katana - It's not special, and you can't throw it.. and you eventually get a free pair of them in the end... completely useless IMO compared to the Fullmoon Boomerang.

Lunar Staff - It's unimpressive, since Dispel is unimpressive, and the Silence Staff is better.. but this weapon is overall unimpressive... just like FuSoYa too. Doesn't it feel wrong to put down shitty equipment?

Charm Arrows - It's nice, but I get the feeling it's unimpressive, yet underrated. Killing a few Giant monsters is nifty, but Charm status itself is the most unimpressive at this point in the game.. and the damage isn't too worthy of mention IMO.

Blitz Whip - Unimpactful, but I guess that's better than all other previous Whip options... the elemental property isn't useful either

Aegis Shield - This is probably the best shield in the game... if only because it provides a decent status to protect (don't want those Karys/Moon Goddesses to be that close) and provides the most magic defense of any shield (not magic evade, but it's not that bad either way). Plus, the extra Wisdom/Intelligence can't hurt magic defense.

Sorceror's Robe - Good for everyone that can use it, and strangely, it has better stats than some of the late armor you can get. Strange, but true.. Undead protection and Lightning resistance is hard to argue against... better than the Diamond Armor.

Nothing to add really. You didn't mention the light sword, that might be coming in the next post but I find it outclasses the defender in the sealed cave, and that's the last place I use it because of Excalibur. Part of me actually wishes it wasn't possible to get Excalibur before the Giant of Babil, so some of these weapons would last a little longer.
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bond697

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2008, 06:49:16 PM »
you buy all the diamond equipment?  i usually pick up a pair of the helmets, and add those to the mixed ice/flame equipment cecil and kain already have, so that they resist all 3 elements.

also, you're very right about the weapons lasting longer.  between the excalibur, defender, and light, the latter 2 aren't used much at all.  it seems like a waste.  maybe the release was missing an event or 2?

i keep an aegis shield on cecil up until he gets his very own crystal shield.

for me, rydia barely does any attacking, so she gets rods the entire game.  whatever increases her wisdom most is what stays.  as for rosa, she gets a staff almost from beginning to end. i'm pretty ocd about keeping each girl as high as possoble in their respective stat.

one thing i will agree on is how underrated the avenger is.  it's powerful and doesn't waste a turn for berserk. go figure. 

as for the drain weaponry, i just never use it.  it's usually the ice weaponry or ogre axe for me.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2008, 07:36:43 PM »
Quote from: bond697 on July 29, 2008, 06:49:16 PM
you buy all the diamond equipment?  i usually pick up a pair of the helmets, and add those to the mixed ice/flame equipment cecil and kain already have, so that they resist all 3 elements.

I end up just buying the Shield+Armor... The mixed resistance sounds nice, except when you realize that number of monsters that use them are kinda minimal. Rotating the shields tends to be a better option.. but whatever I guess.

Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on July 29, 2008, 06:31:16 PM
I've already mentioned that I upgrade the dancing dagger to a chain whip here, Rydia does better damage and paralysis occurs fairly often. What I don't understand are the people who say you should never give her whips because she isn't an attacker...how much ether do these people burn through? If I had her cast magic every battle I doubt I'd make it through any of the dungeons down here without running out of MP, even the Cave of Summoned Monsters.

I don't remember burning much MP (in fact, I play the game as if I was losing MP per second, so I'm nuts that way). I'm Psych/Osmose biased though... the paralysis does make up for her offensive impact, but I kinda wished her offensive impact was better than that. Oh well... Bio's alreadys a cheap spell to use at anytime...

Quote
The diamond equipment is something I buy out of habit that I should really stop doing, just pick up the shield.

The Diamond Armor+Aegis Shield is still good.. unless that extra Black Belt is preferable...?

Quote
I have the avenger equipped on Kain from the time I get it until he leaves, then when he comes back for most of the battles. It's the best weapon in the game but most people overlook it for some reason. When I was reading the DS version walkthrough they actually said it was a "novelty weapon," then suggested using berserk on fighters during the demon wall battle...see the problem here? It may be a few points weaker than what else you'd be using (Probably the poison axe believe it or not, when it's not two-handed it's actually pretty good) but you certainly get an edge by not having to wait for Rosa to cast Berserk on him.

It's not a novelty weapon if it's the best mindless weapon ever that needs a slight attack power boost.

Quote
Nothing to add really. You didn't mention the light sword, that might be coming in the next post but I find it outclasses the defender in the sealed cave, and that's the last place I use it because of Excalibur. Part of me actually wishes it wasn't possible to get Excalibur before the Giant of Babil, so some of these weapons would last a little longer.

I actually forgot about it for a bit... the Light Sword is weaker than the Defender, unless you want to factor in the Holy elemental property... still, I don't find it dramatically better. Only one monster can be taken advantage of in the Sealed Cave.. whereas you can do better with the Mute Knife with Edge...

Light Sword - It's lasts long enough to leave virtually no impact..

Mute Knife - It's the best option for Edge, since his weapons are usually weak themselves, and the attack power isn't wasted.

Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on July 29, 2008, 06:08:11 PM
Kain's elemental lances bother me. Or maybe it's the elemental swords, either way it seems like a real waste to have two nearly identical weapons for both elements. The lances are a little better with their anti-aerial element and level 2 magic. Maybe it's just the fact that Kain can equip both the swords and lances that bothers me.

Well, the lances are better in general, since like one monster resists the Air elemental. His weapons are just better.. and cheaper. I'm not sure if that's the spite Cecil or anything.

Quote
The dwarf axe is really cool, it is odd that it's not anti-aerial. I used to equip this on Cecil and throw him in the back row until I got the icebrand, of course now that I know about the back row bug I could easily leave him back there with the icebrand... It's too bad there's nothing this is really good against, it got an upgrade in the DS version so it's stronger than the ice-elemental weaponry at least, so you'd want to use it over them when not hitting a weakness.

The unfortunate tradeoff is losing the ability to dish critical hits. Cecil's ultimate sword enforces that anyways, but it doesn't have to be the case for Kain. Then again, the Silence Staff has this attribute too (so it's a second thought for Rosa)... Rydia's Whips enforce no crits at all, so go figure there.
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2008, 07:47:04 PM »
Ah yeah, that's another one, the mute knife/mage masher is one of my favorite weapons for Edge, extremely useful in the subterrane. For the longest time I gave it to Rydia, I really don't know why, just seemed like it was intended as an upgrade for her. Once I started giving it to Edge I realized how useful it was.

In my FF4 DS game I currently have Cecil equipped with a luminous robe, same anti-lightning property as the diamond armor and it keeps his spirit high. That's been pretty important to me in the subterrane because I've actually been using his Cura spell for most of my healing, Rosa's focusing on casting multi-targeted blink on the entire party (Gotta love Omnicasting) and such, only been using her for healing when Cecil's Cura isn't enough. Since Cecil's set up with counter he usually gets an attack in every battle anyway. Certainly a different strategy compared to what I'd use in any other version.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM »
For the final bits...

Ninja Hat - Probably the few sources of equipment that gives Agility.. well there you go. The Sleep attribute is a bonus, yet unhelpful at this stage of the game.

The Extra Stuff

Excalibur - The first sword that finally distinguishes Cecil from Kain even though Kain is stronger with Jump.

Genji Armor Set - I probably need to examine the defensive difference more on Edge, it's actually pretty crappy overall for Cecil.

The Final Battle

I'll just itemize some of the final equipment that will be come across in between, with a few other notes that I forgotten somwhere...

Ninja Robe - I don't know why they decided just now to just up his pathetic magic defense stat now, but it's great. Can't argue with the defensive properties with the armor.. though it's probably missing elemental resistances...

Murasame Katana - Casting Protect is a bonus.. and although most people may dislike this weapon.. there are some less obvious stuff that people are not considering.

1) You get more stats than you lose, the overall gain is +5.
2) The Agility loss is eventually compensated by the Ninja Robe and Masamune.
3) Wisdom is more useful to Edge, since it powers his spells, plus he's not really going to have many changes in Will Power/Spirit post level 70. However, this makes him the most suceptible to Paralysis and Sleep since those stats rely on this value to reduce the effect/duration of the status.

Flame Whip - The elemental property is the most negative point, since it is useless both Red+Blue Dragons... this is arguably the most disappointing weapon since its impact is minimal ultimately.

Dragoon Armor Set - One of the few things worth doing is not giving the entire set to Kain or Cecil.. give one away to the other (probably the Gauntlet) so they can actually benefit from both elemental and Dragon resistance. It probably benefits Cecil more since Kain can Jump...

White Robe - One may argue it's worse than the Sorceror's Robe. Sure you get a boost in defense.. but you lose a bit of magic evasion for the most part, and you can gain the Will Power/Spirit by other means... and IMO, the Heroine Robe is better overall if you want Rosa to live longer.

Crystal Armor Set - There's not much to say about it, other than the Crystal Shield is not that useful IMO and that it doesn't even cover the entire range of status resistances... so you end up trading the Crystal Helmet for a Ribbon and Protect Ring for elemental protection... or even better, use the Dragoon Shield for elemental protection in addition to the Crystal Ring, which is optimal IMO... but whatever. It's still a solid set with some hole in protection...

Heroine Robe - It's the best armor for both girls.. though more useful for Rosa, since she's always been underpowered (when you look at the stat growth potential for Rydia, it's disgusting a different)... Rydia tends to benefit less, unless you abuse the shield-Steal bug. It's arguable that the Heroine Robe is better than whatever else you can give for Rydia...

Protect Ring - This is the only way elemental protection is available for the girls and Edge. It tends to be less useful for Cecil+Kain because their Vitality growth tends to be pretty high naturally, and don't really need as much outside help.

Crystal Sword - I don't think I need to explain it, other than the Will Power/Spirit bonus tends to be the most useful attribute of the bunch...

White/Holy Spear - This weapon seems alright on the surface, but disappointing. The Holy attribute is handy, but it being a Spirit killer is a totally useless attribute.

Ribbon - It's hard to argue over status protection in general, so this is no exception. Unfortunately, Charm status is not part of it (until FF4A, where they now make it overpowered, in addition to Berserk protection, which is lame IMO).

Masamune - Free Fast/Haste is awesome... can't argue against the usefulness of it.

Other Equipment That Either Haven't Been Mentioned Yet... (Going Down The List of Forgotten Stuff)

Medusa Sword - Strangely enough, it's a nice neutral weapon that is a better han the IceBrand and Fire Swords. Too bad it's a rare drop, and may be worth someone's while if they are lucky. Unfortunately it inflicts gradual petrification, which has relatively little impact, like Poison.

Stardust Rod - I'm not a fan of the rods, and I guess if you are going rod, you want the Heroine Robe, since you want additional evasion. You lose the potential to max the magic defense, but given that you are already compensating one of the stat penalties via this method, I can't argue against this..

Lilith Rod - This weapon IMO could not possibly be that bad.. but it is. I think it helps Tellah the most, since his MP pool is rather weak, and you can't argue that. The only real negative is that the longevity of the weapon is pretty bad by design.

Life Staff - Having the power of Life1 is useless, period. If a Staff is the preference, you really should be using the Heroine Robe.. simply like the Stardust Rod, the stat gain will negate the Spirit penalty, so it's not that bad. This staff is actually more reliable than the Silence staff in producing overall damage (primarily due to hit rate).. not that the Silence Staff is worse by that much, since the anti-Mage property of that makes it more useful. Then again, the Silence Staff prevents critical hits... so take that for what it is worth.

Dragoon Spear - Luckily this isn't an ultra rare item, so it's value is actually better than the Holy Spear, despite the lower attack power. Anyone that has a brain can figure out that anti-Dragon weaponry is a good thing... do people actually notice the insane frequency of Dragons?

Gungnir Spear - This is the closest thing to the Defense Sword.. minus many different obvious attributes.

Dragon Whip - This is the only weapon that makes Rydia competitive... and arguably close if not better than Rosa (though that requires a lot of levels obviously) but the gap easily shortens up.. to the point where even Rosa's best combo barely outpaces Rydia with this weapon. That's why I'm ultimately disappointed with Rosa's offensive output late game (not just her stats).

RuneAxe - The best place to acquire is in the Giant.. since the Searcher that summons the monster that drops it makes this weapon enticing. Too bad the effort to get this weapon isn't worth it, but the EXP while you do so is great. It's an easy formation to recognize to boot (the Searcher is alone initially).

Artemis Bow - Is the rare drop worth this? I kinda doubt it. It's more like the Heroine Robe, but doesn't have the impact it could have. Additionally, it's only awesome in the FF4ET version, where it kills Dragons with ease. Probably the most disappointing ultimate weapon of the entire bunch...

Artemis Arrows - Probably the only arrow that deserves the most attention.. though requires some patience to get en masse. Oh well, at least the best option doesn't suck.

Glass Hat - The only redeeming property of the hat is high defense plus perfect evasion (though perhaps that was unintentional, but who knows). The Immune Property seems to be handled in a special way, so the benefits of a Glass Hat+Protect Ring are non-existant. Oh well.

Adamant Armor - Overpowered, but deserving due to rarity I guess...

Crystal Ring - Probably the best complementary armor for Cecil+Kain... plus the status protection set is actually complementary to the Ribbon... strongest ring of them all.

Cursed Ring - You can get it as early as Mt. Hobs, but you actually start benefit once you've reached the Tower of Zot. The purpose of the armor revolves around taking lots of elemental damage relatively frequently... so it reduces your stats so you can absorb more.. which is how the stat loss makes a lot more sense.. (which is different from the Drain weaponry, that reduces your stats because you get full healing for every point of damage).. Too bad it seems more gimmicky than anything else, and the Adamant Armor doesn't benefit (Immune has a greater priority than Absorb.. this is different in FF4A).

Power Robe - This armor is more useless than the Glass Hat.. and at least the Glass Hat has some use. It almost seems like it was designed as an afterthought.

Ok.. that's pretty much every  :wtf: :omg: :lame: opinion I have on the topic. I'll  :stfu: for a little bit... because my brain is operating like...  :blits:
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 01:24:00 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 06:28:20 AM »
Going to quote this one a bit differently because it's so much longer than the others.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Ninja Hat - Probably the few sources of equipment that gives Agility.. well there you go. The Sleep attribute is a bonus, yet unhelpful at this stage of the game.

I usually throw Cecil's genji helm on him once I get crystal.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Genji Armor Set - I probably need to examine the defensive difference more on Edge, it's actually pretty crappy overall for Cecil.

As I said above I usually give Edge Cecil's helm, same with his gloves until I get a protect ring for Edge.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Ninja Robe - I don't know why they decided just now to just up his pathetic magic defense stat now, but it's great. Can't argue with the defensive properties with the armor.. though it's probably missing elemental resistances...

Edge's equipment is just disappointing for the whole game, this is finally a good piece, and it's the last thing he'll get normally.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Murasame Katana - Casting Protect is a bonus.. and although most people may dislike this weapon.. there are some less obvious stuff that people are not considering.

1) You get more stats than you lose, the overall gain is +5.
2) The Agility loss is eventually compensated by the Ninja Robe and Masamune.
3) Wisdom is more useful to Edge, since it powers his spells, plus he's not really going to have many changes in Will Power/Spirit post level 70. However, this makes him the most suceptible to Paralysis and Sleep since those stats rely on this value to reduce the effect/duration of the status.

I've never found Protect to be very useful in anything except for the DS version, just didn't seem to have enough impact.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Flame Whip - The elemental property is the most negative point, since it is useless both Red+Blue Dragons... this is arguably the most disappointing weapon since its impact is minimal ultimately.

Yeah, the fire element on this is confounding, the only thing it would be useful against are the two zombie dragons you fight. I forget if the Lunasaurs are weak against fire or not, but I usually summon Bahamut against them so I guess it doesn't matter.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Heroine Robe - It's the best armor for both girls.. though more useful for Rosa, since she's always been underpowered (when you look at the stat growth potential for Rydia, it's disgusting a different)... Rydia tends to benefit less, unless you abuse the shield-Steal bug. It's arguable that the Heroine Robe is better than whatever else you can give for Rydia...

I almost always give it to Rydia.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
White/Holy Spear - This weapon seems alright on the surface, but disappointing. The Holy attribute is handy, but it being a Spirit killer is a totally useless attribute.

Yeah, Kain's ultimate equipment is a bit disappointing.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Ribbon - It's hard to argue over status protection in general, so this is no exception. Unfortunately, Charm status is not part of it (until FF4A, where they now make it overpowered, in addition to Berserk protection, which is lame IMO).

Yeah, the lack of confusion protection is very strange.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Masamune - Free Fast/Haste is awesome... can't argue against the usefulness of it.

Would have been far cooler if it was a multi-target haste instead of having to waste five turns to apply it to everyone though...

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Medusa Sword - Strangely enough, it's a nice neutral weapon that is a better han the IceBrand and Fire Swords. Too bad it's a rare drop, and may be worth someone's while if they are lucky. Unfortunately it inflicts gradual petrification, which has relatively little impact, like Poison.

Such a disappointing weapon when I finally got it, I was assuming it would be like the Medusa arrows and kill anything that was vulnerable in one hit.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Stardust Rod - I'm not a fan of the rods, and I guess if you are going rod, you want the Heroine Robe, since you want additional evasion. You lose the potential to max the magic defense, but given that you are already compensating one of the stat penalties via this method, I can't argue against this..

I like it solely for the Comet magic it casts, which is ridiculously overpowered in the DS version, it's essentially a multi-target Flare in that version. Must have to do with it being based on Rydia's intellect rather than a built-in spell power, since the twins' magic doesn't seem anymore powerful than normal when you use it.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Lilith Rod - This weapon IMO could not possibly be that bad.. but it is. I think it helps Tellah the most, since his MP pool is rather weak, and you can't argue that. The only real negative is that the longevity of the weapon is pretty bad by design.

It lost its drain-elemental physical in the DS version.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Artemis Arrows - Probably the only arrow that deserves the most attention.. though requires some patience to get en masse. Oh well, at least the best option doesn't suck.

I usually end up with far more of these than I need, except in the GBA version where Edge seems to have a much harder time stealing. These are still the Moonmaiden's common drop in the DS version so expect to end up with way too many considering you only need one for the entire game...

Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Cursed Ring - You can get it as early as Mt. Hobs, but you actually start benefit once you've reached the Tower of Zot. The purpose of the armor revolves around taking lots of elemental damage relatively frequently... so it reduces your stats so you can absorb more.. which is how the stat loss makes a lot more sense.. (which is different from the Drain weaponry, that reduces your stats because you get full healing for every point of damage).. Too bad it seems more gimmicky than anything else, and the Adamant Armor doesn't benefit (Immune has a greater priority than Absorb.. this is different in FF4A).

The thing is a life saver at times in the DS version, and it's much more common so there's no need to hunt one down, killing a few souls on Mt. Ordeals is almost guaranteed to get you one.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4 - Equipment Distribution
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 12:54:38 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on July 30, 2008, 06:28:20 AM
I usually throw Cecil's genji helm on him once I get crystal.

I used to give Edge the Genji Helm early on, but I never gave a piece of the Genji Armor set to Cecil at all.

Quote
Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Ribbon - It's hard to argue over status protection in general, so this is no exception. Unfortunately, Charm status is not part of it (until FF4A, where they now make it overpowered, in addition to Berserk protection, which is lame IMO).

Yeah, the lack of confusion protection is very strange.

I chalk that up to FF5-ish status protection. Protect most stats, not all.

Quote
Quote from: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2008, 10:07:21 PM
Masamune - Free Fast/Haste is awesome... can't argue against the usefulness of it.

Would have been far cooler if it was a multi-target haste instead of having to waste five turns to apply it to everyone though...

Well, targeting is chained to what the spell does, so bah.

I actually wonder if the Power Robe was supposed to be sold @ Baron though.. because it would be the ideal time and place to have this armor available... either that or a revised Ogre drop list...

Also, the Shadow-Iron set of weapons+armor.. if you look at how the DK equipment tables are, it seems rather intentional to me...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 02:10:51 PM by Deathlike2 »
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