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noisecross

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2015, 05:26:06 AM »
I am attaching here a fix to:
"You can exit the slopes and walk on the air via a specific tile on Northern Mountain FFVSNES"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mVJpsWOP2s

This patch only overwrites that scenario tilemap (CC/9396 to CC/96EB) so it is compatible with every other patch which doesn't edit maps. I will try to document in the wiki the little bit I have learned about maps.

Have somebody documentation about that topic? I don't remember seeing anything.
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Jorgur

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2015, 12:52:56 AM »
I sure haven't.
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2015, 09:56:00 PM »
Made the Bugs & Glitches page colorful to match what we have here on the first post (and updated some bugs to confirmed).

BTW, there is a wikia page which has added a video (or a picture) of the bug in action. Any interest of doing the same here? I could create them, just would need an account to upload them, unless I use mine (which I have no problems doing so)...
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Jorgur

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2015, 06:01:20 AM »
Is it really neccessary? Almost all of the bugs can be understood with text only, and there is really no space left to use.

What if we make a sub-page for each bug/glitch? That would grant additional space where we can put technical details, images and/or videos.
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2015, 09:32:09 AM »
By any means is not a must, but I think it would be helpful for people who are not familiar with them. (There are some that have vague information, like "Walk through walls in the Pyramid").

I think we could name the bugs (just like in the wikia, replacing "description" to "name"), change the column for comments to link and then place the complete information for each bug in their corresponding sub-page. I guess we could name the pages as Category + #list (example: Miscellaneous_05 would link to the "Walk through walls in the Pyramid" bug)
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noisecross

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2015, 10:11:25 AM »
We have found a new bug in the RPGe code.
After editing some texts, Digitsie noticed me a strange behaviour when the Abilities and Commands are displayed in the Abilities menu.
The 'blank' slots after the learned abilites were not blank but the last displayed name repeated.

The funny thing here is that issue is masked in the RPGe version of the game, so is never noticeable in-game. If the speech is edited otherwise there are probabilities to see it.

The source of this thing is a non controlled index overflow. I am attaching here the explanation in a txt file.

As long as we know, that will fix it:
Code: [Select]
E0/0F51 18 -> 38
E0/0F57 71 -> 70
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2015, 10:14:11 PM »
Gilgamesh may not appear versus Necrophobe even when all (known) criteria have been met (unconfirmed)
I was trying to reproduce the "Gilgamesh won't show at Necrofobia battle" and was able to identify how you trigger it.

When you grab the (empty) treasure and trigger the battle against Gilgamesh at the end of the second world, there seem to be 3 cases:
* Kill Gilgamesh w/o letting him transform
* Kill Gilgamesh after he transform
* Let Exdeath send Gilgamesh to the Void

- For the first scenario, he won't appear at the entrance of the Void (nor against Necrophobia).

- For the second scenario (which normally is hard to pull since you need to deal 55,000 damage) is what causes the bug.
It seems that after he transform, a flag will register and he will appear later on at the Void. However, since it didn't triggered Exdeath's script a second flag won't be set (0x7E7C85 04). I suppose same scenario happens if you berserk him, though maybe I should try it just to confirm.

- As mentioned above, after Exdeath sends Gilgamesh to the Void, another flag will activate, which is the one that is checked when you fight against Necrofobia.


So, the problem relies on Gilgamesh appearing at the entrance of the Void when he is supposed to be death, which leads to the confusion as why he didn't appeared later on. (The other condition is that Necrofobia's HP must be below 9,999)

I made a video of this bug (only the part where you fight him at the Void, not since the battle at world 2, because it would be too long)



Edit: Youtube tags seems to display nothing, therefore rendering useless...
Edit 2: Never mind, I had to use the short link, not the normal one...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 10:23:49 PM by samurai goroh »
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noisecross

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2015, 03:37:45 AM »
Quote from: samurai goroh on February 24, 2015, 10:14:11 PM
[...] the second scenario (which normally is hard to pull since you need to deal 55,000 damage) is what causes the bug. [...]

So if I understand well, there are two ways to fix this issue:
  1- Forcing the first flag is not set in the transformation but at the same time than the second one (may cause bugs in that battle?)
  2- Forcing the flag checked to choose if Gilgamesh appears at the Void to be the second one (so the first one would be unused at all?)

The second one seems easier, shorter and safer for me.

How do you do to understand battle events? Just debugging with the emulator?
I don't remember reading any documentation about them.
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Jorgur

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2015, 07:01:35 AM »
Quote from: samurai goroh on February 24, 2015, 09:32:09 AM
I think we could name the bugs (just like in the wikia, replacing "description" to "name"), change the column for comments to link and then place the complete information for each bug in their corresponding sub-page. I guess we could name the pages as Category + #list (example: Miscellaneous_05 would link to the "Walk through walls in the Pyramid" bug)
Yes, that's what I had in mind as well. I also think they should be named, but, if we give them numbers there will be complications (what to do when a bug/glitch is removed, moved to another category, etc.). I'm going to suggest that we simply give them names and nothing else, so the URLs become something like this:

http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Bug:Walk_through_walls_in_the_Pyramid

or if it is a glitch:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Glitch:Walk_through_walls_in_the_Pyramid

It's more convenient for us when we make changes to the bug/glitch list, and easier to manage in general. Of course we have to decide which entries are glitches and which ones are bugs.
Thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 07:07:45 AM by Jorgur »
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2015, 09:19:19 AM »
Quote from: noisecross on February 25, 2015, 03:37:45 AM
How do you do to understand battle events? Just debugging with the emulator?
I don't remember reading any documentation about them.
I have this addresses which I can monitor while playing in Snes9x

7E7C85 XX          Records whether you've fought certain battles
       01 - ?
       02 - ?
       04 - Gilgamesh (Morphed - Exdeath Castle)
       08 - Sekmet
       10 - Golem
       20 - Golem
       40 - Shoat
       80 - Ramuh

7E7C86 XX          Records whether you've fought certain battles
       01 - ?
       02 - ?
       04 - ?
       08 - ?
       10 - ?
       20 - ?
       40 - ?
       80 - Exdeath (solo battle vs. Galuf)

7E7C85:04 is the flag checked at Necrofobia's battle. I also happen to have a mail from 2007 where RuneLancer (From Caves of Narshe) explained me the requirements for Gilgamesh to appear (which was around when the bug was reported)

Quote
First, here is the Necrophobia entity AI script's relevant parts.

Code: [Select]
NECROPHOBIA ACTION SCRIPTS
        If Var_02 = 0x01
                Execute
                        Display Text(Necrophobia: Die!!)
                        Target Gilgamesh
                        Use Flare
                        Target Gilgamesh
                        Use (No-Target Magic 0xAC)

        If Var_01 = 0x01 AND Self is Alone
                Use Destroy

        If Var_01 = 0x01
                Target Gilgamesh
                Use [Special, Fire 3, Bolt 3]
                Target Gilgamesh
                Use [Special, Ice 3, Critical]



NECROPHOBIA REACTION SCRIPTS
        If Dead and Alone
                Display Text(E... Ex...!!)
                Idle

        If Damaged when (HP < 0x270F and Var_01 = 0x00) and Gilgamesh_Fought
                Execute
                        Change Music to 0x22
                        Show Entity Gilgamesh
                        Display Text('Gil... Gilgamesh!!)
                        Display Text(Gilgamesh:  Phew!  I made it!)
                        Display Text('If I go home right now,)
                        Display Text('I'll remain in history)
                        Display Text('as a weakling!)
                        Display Text(Necrophobia:  Heh...)
                        Display Text('Blabbermouth...)
                        Display Text('I'll get rid of you first!)
                        Var_01 = 0x01
                        Idle
When you attack Necrophobia, the first time he takes a hit while under 9999 HP Gilgamesh will appear. You have to have fought him and allowed him to leave the fight at the entrance of the Cleft of Dimensions. Note that because Necrophobia has a Death reaction script before the one that makes Gilgamesh appear, killing him will cause the Gilgamesh script to not run.

During the fight, Necrophobia will target Gilgamesh solely. Once Gilgamesh is removed AFTER he has appeared (indicated by Var_01 if you haven't picked up on it yet) Necrophobia will remove himself from battle. At the end of the fight (when the Gilgamesh script sets Var_02 to 0x01) he will target Gilgamesh with Flare (note that this does not kill Gilgamesh) and use a "fake" attack to which Gilgamesh reacts, prompting him to use Exploder and to end the fight.

In short, you have to hit him once his HP have been brought under 9999 without killing him after encountering Gilgamesh and letting him leave.

As for a flag when Gilgamesh transforms, that's speculation right now because I don't have that address now, but I'm sure it's there somewhere...
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2015, 09:53:17 AM »
Quote from: Jorgur on February 25, 2015, 07:01:35 AM
Quote from: samurai goroh on February 24, 2015, 09:32:09 AM
I think we could name the bugs (just like in the wikia, replacing "description" to "name"), change the column for comments to link and then place the complete information for each bug in their corresponding sub-page. I guess we could name the pages as Category + #list (example: Miscellaneous_05 would link to the "Walk through walls in the Pyramid" bug)
Yes, that's what I had in mind as well. I also think they should be named, but, if we give them numbers there will be complications (what to do when a bug/glitch is removed, moved to another category, etc.). I'm going to suggest that we simply give them names and nothing else, so the URLs become something like this:

http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Bug:Walk_through_walls_in_the_Pyramid

or if it is a glitch:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Glitch:Walk_through_walls_in_the_Pyramid

It's more convenient for us when we make changes to the bug/glitch list, and easier to manage in general. Of course we have to decide which entries are glitches and which ones are bugs.
Thoughts?
The only problem I see with naming is that we should go for names that people have referred (so they know which bug were talking about). The problem lies that sometimes the name is not accurate to describe what it really is happening. For example: Skipping Linna glitch. While you're initially skipping her, the problem lies with the Time magic Return which allows you to continue your quest for a while triggering some other bugs in the process...

As for bug vs glitch they are pretty much the same (programming errors). What I remember it was that glitches are more oriented to graphical/sound errors while bugs are oriented to bad programming missing cases (like the underflow bug that lets you have infinite items or 255 Mg power). I would say it's best to avoid technicalities and simple call all of them as bugs in the link. (Then inside the page, you can refer it as a glitch if needed)

I haven't created a page yet on the wiki, so I don't know how easy is to rename them if needed (that's why I suggested to name them as "Category + #list", as links would hardly change unless you labeled wrong). And you can still refer them with the name given, it's just the page that would have such name.


BTW, any feedback with the video?
Like was the LUA script helpful or bothersome. Should I tweak it or remove it? etc...
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noisecross

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2015, 10:20:16 AM »
Thanks for the explanation.

Quote from: samurai goroh on February 25, 2015, 09:19:19 AM
First, here is the Necrophobia entity AI script's relevant parts.

That "AI script" looks pretty impressive!
I remember reading about RuneLancer as well as about Silverlance when I was looking for FFV docs a couple of years ago. I think they are missing and their researches are not avaliable, am I right?

By the way, talking about the "Walk through walls in the Pyramid", I have a fix for it using an experimental map editor, but I haven't test it yet.
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samurai goroh

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2015, 10:39:17 AM »
RuneLancer & Silverlance are one and the same guy. IIRC, I once read he helped out instructrtrepe - J.L. Tseng - on the algorithm FAQ, so he's quite knowledgeable about the ROM. I have his e-mail although it has been a long time since I last contacted him (so I'm not sure if it's still active). I can PM it to you if you want it.

He along with Caesar (both from Caves of Narshe) were making a hacking project for this game and had gathered plenty of information to do almost anything, but they never shared their investigation (he told me they had covered about 80% of the ROM cracked by that time I talked to him). He also told me that MAYBE he would if they released their project, but that never happened (and that was a big maybe, because people had used their information on other projects w/o giving credits).

« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 11:03:07 AM by samurai goroh »
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noisecross

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2015, 11:11:41 AM »
It is a mess...
I have named him because we are now "rediscovering" a lot of things which were documented some years ago.
The location maps, in example, were researched and there was even an editor, but I think they focused highly on FFVI.

The FFVI have a great locations editor as well as FFIV but I have not found any for FFV.
Anyway, sorry for the :offtopic:
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Jorgur

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Re: FF5 Bugs & Glitches
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2015, 11:17:57 AM »
Quote from: samurai goroh on February 25, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
The only problem I see with naming is that we should go for names that people have referred (so they know which bug were talking about). The problem lies that sometimes the name is not accurate to describe what it really is happening. For example: Skipping Linna glitch. While you're initially skipping her, the problem lies with the Time magic Return which allows you to continue your quest for a while triggering some other bugs in the process...
I think we should go for accuracy. If a bug has an inappropriate name, we should just give it a new name, don't you think?

Quote from: samurai goroh on February 25, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
As for bug vs glitch they are pretty much the same (programming errors). What I remember it was that glitches are more oriented to graphical/sound errors while bugs are oriented to bad programming missing cases (like the underflow bug that lets you have infinite items or 255 Mg power). I would say it's best to avoid technicalities and simple call all of them as bugs in the link. (Then inside the page, you can refer it as a glitch if needed)
Ok, good point. I think that would be the best way to do it. So, should we rename the page from "FF5_Bugs_and_Glitches" to just "FF5_Bugs"?

Quote from: samurai goroh on February 25, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
I haven't created a page yet on the wiki, so I don't know how easy is to rename them if needed (that's why I suggested to name them as "Category + #list", as links would hardly change unless you labeled wrong). And you can still refer them with the name given, it's just the page that would have such name.
Renaming pages is easy. You simply use "Move" to give it a new name. Dead links is not an issue because the wiki automatically sets up a redirect so people get forwarded to the new page.

As of now, we have 2 suggestions:
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Bug:Walk_through_walls_in_the_Pyramid
http://slickproductions.org/slickwiki/index.php/FF5_Bug:Miscellaneous_05

I prefer the first one because it looks nicer and is more descriptive. If you see that link somewhere you don't have to click the link to know which bug it links to. The second option will cause some problems if a bug is moved to another category.

Quote from: samurai goroh on February 25, 2015, 09:53:17 AM
BTW, any feedback with the video?
Like was the LUA script helpful or bothersome. Should I tweak it or remove it? etc...
I'm not sure if that bug really needed a video. I watched for 5 minutes just to see that Gilgamesh did not appear.  :tongue:
It was pretty well done though.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 11:26:08 AM by Jorgur »
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