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Author Topic: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?  (Read 12517 times)

Leviathan Mist

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Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« on: May 10, 2009, 05:35:37 AM »
WTF?

I was disappointed when Chrono Resurrection was taken down, but this is just ridiculous. What's more ridiculous is the fact that those working on the project actually complied and disposed of all that hard work.

I'm about ready to boycott Square-Enix entirely, not that it matters to them (though I have spent a lot of money on Square-Enix games in the past few years)

assassin

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2009, 06:01:48 AM »
yeah, it seems odd..  if they actually destroyed their own local copies of the project (as opposed to just pretending), they're morons.  and why the hell would the patch authors put "ROM altering and modification is illegal..." right in their Readme?!  for one, i didn't think it was illegal.  secondly, they were basically allowing for their own undoing.

Leviathan Mist

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 09:35:40 AM »
It's not illegal by itself, but obviously distributing digitalized copies of copyrighted material is - so unless they actually used a ROM reader to make a copy of an actual cartridge of their own, they were technically breaking the law. Also, if any of the content in their patch contained anything copyrighted by Square-Enix (sprites and whatnot) that would be copyright infringement as well... What baffles me is that Square-Enix is the ONLY company who cares enough about this stuff to pursue ROM hackers. What's next, they go after people for downloading ROMs of games they no longer sell? No one wants to pay $100 on eBay for a working copy of FF7...

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2009, 10:08:51 AM »
(I lost my FF7 somewhere. I'm kind of pissed off about it.)

So, is Square saying we need to manually ruin our cartridges to hack our games, the programs that hack roms are illegal, or just USING them is illegal? :P

Generally, rom-hacks are only for those who've owned the game for years. I'd expect it rare and unfullfilling to play a rom-hack of a game I've never played the original. If anything, it's a good thing to have a rom-hacked and played as it inspires a play thought of the original game.

Also, the games aren't being made anymore as far as I know. I don't really consider the "advanced" versions of the game the same thing. Though, I wouldn't mind getting FF6A. I've just never looked for one yet.

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009, 05:26:15 PM »
yeah, it seems odd..  if they actually destroyed their own local copies of the project (as opposed to just pretending), they're morons.

I'm sure they wouldn't do that. No one in their right mind destroys three years of their own work, even if it will never be used. My guess is that they're complying until they can determine if it's legit, but they need to seem like they're taking it seriously in the  meantime.

It's not illegal by itself, but obviously distributing digitalized copies of copyrighted material is - so unless they actually used a ROM reader to make a copy of an actual cartridge of their own, they were technically breaking the law. Also, if any of the content in their patch contained anything copyrighted by Square-Enix (sprites and whatnot) that would be copyright infringement as well...

I thought the idea behind an IPS patch was that you weren't distributing any copyrighted material, and thus couldn't be prosecuted for distributing digital copies of anything copyrighted. Or were you talking about if the IPS contained the actual sprite data (if they were not already in the game)?

Leviathan Mist

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2009, 08:51:38 PM »
I thought the idea behind an IPS patch was that you weren't distributing any copyrighted material, and thus couldn't be prosecuted for distributing digital copies of anything copyrighted. Or were you talking about if the IPS contained the actual sprite data (if they were not already in the game)?

Yeah, that is the purpose of an IPS patch. However, in a project as big as this one, SE's copyright lawyers could surely find something in the patch that infringes their copyright if they had to... that is, assuming they are that low and dirty. I mean, it's not like the developers of this patch are planning to earn any money off this. In the end, Square-Enix is just a corporate waste of space, dishing out spinoffs of the same crappy games as if on a production line...

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 09:23:14 PM »
Do you know how much original ROM data can be replicated in a patch and still qualify as "fair use"?  For instance, my patches/fixes don't break 600 bytes in an IPS (they're usually well under half of that).  Over 10 bytes of that is the IPS header and footer.  And at least 1/4 is my new code.  So that leaves 450 bytes tops for Square code.  450 / 3145728 = 0.00143 = 0.0143%.  Yes, less than one fiftieth of one percent.

Let's look at fair use in another media: songs.  Suppose a 3.5 minute song.  People can readily sample 5 seconds of that without any fear of prosecution.  5 / 210 = 0.0238095 = 2.381%.

Let's be generous to the intellectual property holders and use 2-percent inclusion as a cut-off.  For the FF3us/FF6j ROM, that'd come out to 62,914 bytes.  Most patches are nowhere close to that.

Admittedly, large overhauls (such as Crimson Echoes or PB) exceed that.  And it's incredibly lame that Square would clamp down on some of the biggest fans of a game, whose enthusiasm is evidenced by their dedicated toiling.  And it's lamer still that the game in question is nearly 14 years old, yet its maker "defends" it as if it's stocking store shelves.  But what I'm trying to do here is figure out how large of patches would be completely safe in court.

I have no delusions that Square (or Nintendo, for Zelda 3) gives a rat's ass about my little patches, so I'm not particularly afraid.  However, it's worth discussing the furthest things could legally go if the bug up their ass grew or multiplied, and they initiated a full-court press.

As for Pandora's Box, maybe you guys should assume a lower profile and stop posting updates on Romhacking.net?  One poster there reacting to the CE news expressed concern over the precedent it could set for PB.  Also, torrents and P2P are your friends, when the day comes.

Odbarc

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2009, 09:51:44 PM »
Can't they track Torrents and demand they get taken down?

Leviathan Mist

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2009, 09:52:36 PM »
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that corporations and their lawyers are assholes :P

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2009, 04:33:48 AM »
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that corporations and their lawyers are assholes :P
Like that's hard to figure out. :tongue:

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2009, 04:08:24 PM »
Fuck Squeenix.  Get ready to post all your data if you need to do it on a torrent file (PB).  Spread it all over the internet if you need to.  Stick it to them.  I'm growing sick and tired of their antics, they've single-handedly ruined the relationship of their fans.  I see absolutely no reason to purchase anything NEW from them anymore.  Just like I'll never buy a new GM vehicle after they killed Pontiac I will never buy a NEW Squeenix product.  I will buy it pre-owned as to not give them any new revenue.  THAT is how we can protest their moroicism (new word!).  I highly suggest taking assassin's suggestion and become incognito and remove all info regarding PB from forums (minus this one) and your public emails.  Make the PB forums password protected so only we real people can read the content. 

Again, Fuck Squeenix. 

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Deathlike2

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2009, 07:03:31 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what's the problem (other than the legalities), but my only guess judging from what is being done in those hacks are the equivalent of a new game. These types of changes would have been better for Square-Enix... hurting the potential, possibilities, and ultimately profit. I am very disappointed in Square-Enix (I was already there after some of these shitty ports they ask others to make anyhow). To be honest, I would have thought they would have been better to hire some of the romhackers and/or guys behind making the stories.. given that there's a lack of quality of that in movies and games today... but that's for another day.

My point is, it is Square-Enix's property, and I personally think there's a more amenable solution than a Cease and Desist order....
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JCE3000GT

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2009, 07:58:30 PM »
I'm thinking that C&D letter is fake.  Read that topic on RHDN...

Deathlike2

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Re: Square-Enix is going after ROM hackers now?
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2009, 08:23:46 PM »
It's leaning towards being real... but eh, let that hash out there first.
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