°Aslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4rpmddblr0qsa28id791kk1410&action=profile;u=6;area=showposts;start=2700e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index93f5.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=4rpmddblr0qsa28id791kk1410&action=profile;area=showposts;u=6e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/index93f5.html.zxЮh^                    ╚└KЭтOKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip0|╓Эт        Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:31:45 GMT0є░░ о0оPоАз▓ЁоЮh^        G7Эт Show Posts - Deathlike2

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Messages - Deathlike2

2701
Gaming Discussion / Re: The State of FF2/4 Walkthroughs/FAQs
« on: March 24, 2008, 09:31:48 AM »
Here's some numbers to compare against DK Cecil w/o the Deathbringer...

DK Cecil @ level 13:

STR: 16
AGI: 12
VIT: 13
WIS: 7
WILL: 3

Attack multiplier is 3x with a defense multiplier of 2 (with shield).

DK Cecil @ level 19:

STR: 21
AGI: 16
VIT: 16
WIS: 9
WILL: 2

Attack multiplier is 4x with a defense multiplier of 3 (with shield).

Paladin Cecil @ level 15:

STR: 16
AGI: 15
VIT: 16
WIS: 10
WILL: 15

Attack multiplier is 3x with a defense multiplier of 2 (with shield).

Paladin Cecil @ level 20:

STR: 20
AGI: 16
VIT: 20
WIS: 12
WILL: 17

Attack multiplier is 4x with a defense multiplier of 3 (with shield).

See, comparitively speaking, their raw stats are more or less the same.. as long as you aren't comparing against the magic defense multiplier.

2702
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: "Heal/Medicine" Command
« on: March 24, 2008, 08:42:26 AM »
This may sound like an odd thought.. but if you had that ability to do that, it would be awesome.

I'm not sure if either sound easy or viable (it probably is viable, but difficult/annoying to do I suspect).

What you would do is either one of the following:

Create a duplicate command that executes almost the same thing... swap them in as appropriate via the event code.

or

Manipulate the command's behavior via event code. After a specific event occurs, you tell the command to use different values to use instead. This would also require quite a bit of tweaking, but it would probably cut down on the space used to trigger the behavior.

2703
Gaming Discussion / Re: The State of FF2/4 Walkthroughs/FAQs
« on: March 24, 2008, 08:35:16 AM »
Here's some data that you could look over.. I'm not posting HP ranges at those levels because it would not be a fair comparison (but also because I'm lazy atm).  :tongue:

The data here is assumed that the character is totally unequipped.

DK Cecil @ level 10 (initial)

STR: 13
AGI: 10
VIT: 11
WIS: 6
WILL: 3

Paladin Cecil @ level 1 (initial)

STR: 10
AGI: 13
VIT: 10
WIS: 5
WILL: 8

As you can see, there is not too much of a difference initially.

There's a range between two different levels at which I will be comparing Cecil against, just to make my point.

A realistic early level that Cecil will be at before becoming a Paladin is level 17. A late level would be more along the lines of level 27.. these numbers are used to maximize the attack multiplier (which is very important in the damage calculations).

His stats after equipping the Deathbringer Sword (which is the FF4A name or Death Sword in FF2 SNES)

Deathbringer adds +5 to STR, AGI, VIT, WIS, and -5 to WILL

Data in parenthesis are unequipped stats.

Level 17:
STR: 24 (19)
AGI: 19 (14)
VIT: 20 (15)
WIS: 13 (8)
WILL: 1 (2)

Cecil will have an attack multiplier of 5x with a defense multiplier of 3x (when a shield is equipped).

Level 27:
STR: 32 (27)
AGI: 25 (20)
VIT: 25 (20)
WIS: 16 (11)
WILL: 1 (1)

Note: Stat min cannot go below 0 and there is a wraparound for stats lower than 0 to the value of 1. This is slightly different in FF4A where the wraparound is only "displayed" as 0 for stats lower than 0, but internally the negative stat loss is factored in.

Cecil will now have an attack multiplier of 6x with a defense multiplier of 4x (when a shield is equipped).

For Cecil to even remotely compete with the DK at level 17 in terms of the attack multiplier... he needs to be at level 23 (I like 24 though since he learns Heal/Esuna).

None of Paladin Cecil's equipment at this point boosts his STR in any way, so that's part of the flawed comparison that some idiots make when they say Cecil as a DK is radically stronger than Paladin Cecil (assuming you hacked it so that DK Cecil is always there in the party).

Level 23:
STR: 24 (24)
AGI: 17 (17)
VIT: 23 (23)
WIS: 13 (13)
WILL: 33 (18)

Note: The Will Power boosts are coming from the Paladin equipment you buy at Mysidia, assuming you are using them in conjunction with the Legend Sword.

That will produce an attack multiplier of 5x with a defense multiplier of 3x (assuming you are using a shield).

The thing is that it really does take a while for Cecil to rebuild his STR to "reacclimate himself" to Dark Knight levels. When Dark Knight lovers forget to factor in that Paladin Cecil is far more versatile and stronger once these stats are properly rebuilt...

There's also these reports or "claims" that Dark Knight Cecil is weaker than Paladin Cecil in terms of the monsters. This is true, but only for one reason. All the Paladin equipment you buy has Undead Resistance. Cecil as a DK is not that bad when facing the undead, he's just won't properly compare favorable for those that like the Paladin more (like I do).

These are distinctions worth pointing out, and hopefully that answers your question better.

In sum:
DK Cecil only appears stronger in terms of attack power than Paladin Cecil at the time of conversion.

DK Cecil has a stat boosting weapon (Deathbringer) which completely makes comparisons against Paladin Cecil very unfavorable. DK lovers make these silly comparisons.

Paladin Cecil is on par, if not stronger than DK Cecil, when the Paladin reaches level 23 for enemies that are not weak vs Holy elemental since the Paladin starts with a Holy elemental weapon. Only one enemy on Mt. Ordeals is not weak against Holy and doing damage calculations against Holy elemental enemies totally screws the comparison. Paladin Cecil is pathetic in dealing damage prior to this level, especially when trying to kill Ravens.

Paladin Cecil is defensively stronger than DK Cecil vs Undead only because the equipment has Undead resistance. This issue is negated when he's off Mt. Ordeals.

It will take a long time before DK Cecil will have a Magic Defense Multiplier.. whereas it takes far less time for Paladin Cecil.

Hopefully that answers the question you have with this information.

2704
General Discussion & Support / Re: FF5 Multi Editor
« on: March 24, 2008, 07:32:20 AM »
Jorgur, some of what you seek can be found here: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=192.0

2705
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Spell ASM Finds
« on: March 24, 2008, 07:23:13 AM »
I believe it may also be worth looking into the effects of a spell when Reflected... I wrote something on this:

http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=181.0

It seems to change the properties of an elemental... or at least make the enemy execute a different counter command. Think of Holy and the Behemoth and how its counter script changes if Holy is reflected onto it.

2706
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Spell ASM Finds
« on: March 24, 2008, 06:44:22 AM »
Out of curiosity I decided to take a quick look at Dispel and effect 2A (used by Blk.Hole and Zeromus before you use the Crystal on him). Here’s what I found:

Dispel removes all the statuses we thought (Berserk, Image, Wall, Barrier) but also removes HP Leak.  :eek:  I think that’s a mistake, since it’s not a positive status.

Well, I've confirmed HP leak is lost after Dispel is used, though there is some extra leakage that occurs, but it stops immediately afterwards.

Quote
Effect 2A removes Berserk, Float, Image, Wall, Barrier, and resets the speed modifier. That means this effectively removes Slow/Fast, and only positive statuses.

So effect 2A is a real Dispel. Since there really aren’t many (if any?) enemies that use Fast on themselves, or Float, I recommend changing Dispel to this effect if you’re planning on making it active in any hacks. There is one more difference between this and Dispel, however. Dispel has a check if the target is Berserked, and does something to the next command for the target, perhaps to reset its attack sequence, I’m not sure. Using effect 2A might not work well on enemies, since it’s a shorter subroutine and intended to only be used on your party. Anyone that tests please post!

At least Protect/Shell is unaffected (although useless vs Zeromus as you said earlier)... but nice to know (at least Slow will stick on Zeromus, since spells can't target everyone on the field)

A small number of enemies cast Fast on themselves... well, there's the EvilMask (via Reflect).. but the obvious one is the Tricker. Then, there is Cagnazzio (Elemental of Water) at Baron...

I wrote something on the effect of Berserk and the Avenger Sword... it should answer questions you have.

Removing Berserk (Black Hole or Dispel) simply resets the ATB counter and stops whatever command issued for the next attack. However, the Avenger Sword just reapplies "Auto-Berserk" when the character turn comes up, but that character's turn has to "occur" when it is their "virtual turn". It doesn't occur in FF4A... Auto-Berserk is removed under Black Hole for the duration of the battle. Dispel doesn't affect Auto-Berserk here...

It is worth pointing out that auto-Berserk from the Avenger is slightly different than Berserk in terms of how either Dispel effects operate, particularly in terms of the port of the game you are testing on.

http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=117.0

2707
Gaming Discussion / Re: The State of FF2/4 Walkthroughs/FAQs
« on: March 24, 2008, 06:36:53 AM »
Hate to ask a stupid question, but what makes Paladin Cecil weaker than DK Cecil? It's been a long time since I played FF4.

Initially, Paladin Cecil is weaker that Dark Knight Cecil at the time of the conversion. However, both initial Cecil versions are of the same strength, relatively speaking. Paladin Cecil eventually surpasses Dark Knight Cecil once he reaches the level 24 or so.

I judge this mostly statistically, but this is all proven out when you see the damage dealt...

I'll put up some numbers in a later post, but let's just say Paladin Cecil "appears" to be stronger than Dark Knight Cecil early on only because the enemies are weak against Holy elemental and therefore does approximately 2x or 4x damage than he normally would. Then, you'll feel cheated when he has a tough time killing a Raven outside of Mt. Ordeals.

2708
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Spell ASM Finds
« on: March 23, 2008, 10:20:19 PM »
I was curious about what Protect and Shell actually change, and made some interesting findings:

  • Protect adds 5 to the physical defense base of the character, up to a max of 255.
  • Shell adds 3 to the magical defense base. I'm not sure why it's less, other than mag. def. stats are always less than physical def. stats for the characters.
  • Here's what's interesting: neither of these will work in the battle with Zeromus. There's a check that skips the subroutine if you're fighting Zeromus, making the battle that much more difficult. I guess they wanted that extra challenge for the last battle.

I presume Magic Defense is limited to 255?

And.. WTF?!?!?!?!? I thought Shell would be useful. Edward in FF4A now looks like a POS vs Zeromus. Mind you, he is very capable if you max out his stats.. (I should run the numbers at some point).

2709
If I knew what those numbers were, I would say it. The chance to crit is much lower... probably 1/16 chance or something. It's simply easier to disable critical hits instead...  :tongue:

Let me try to flesh out what I was thinking...

The damage formula for crits looks more like this... this is added to the attack power prior to multiplying against randomization though completely useless when Mini/Toad status is applied

Critical Hit with one weapon: Base Attack Power += Weapon Power * 3/2
Critical Hit with two weapons (Edge): Either..
Base Attack Power += Weapon Power of Weapon Dealing Crit  * 3/2
Or...
Base Attack Power += (Left Handed Weapon Power + Right Handed Weapon Power)/2 * 3/2

I lean towards the latter of the two algos for Edge though.

Edit: Yang's algo listed in next post.

2710
Gaming Discussion / Re: The State of FF2/4 Walkthroughs/FAQs
« on: March 23, 2008, 02:57:57 PM »
Here it is, the biggest offender of them all - http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/588330/12766

Quote from: Zeromus battle strat
Then have Cecil
attack normally, have Rosa cast Holy and heal if neccessary

Good idea, insta-kill a member for free.

Quote from: Cecil's Description
      When Cecil does become a Paladin his stats are extremely high from
      those of a Dark Knight, for example a Level 1 Paladin stat's are about
      50% higher than those of a level 20 Dark Knight, just to let you know.

That's an understatement. In fact, it really takes approximately 20 levels before Paladin Cecil even remotely becomes as powerful as his Dark Knight counterpart. The only reason why the DK looks bad by comparisons is the lack of magic evade, due in part of the equipment he gets, but the Paladin actually gains Wisdom and Will, which almost sounds shocking, but isn't really.

Quote from: Kain's strats
      When Kain jumps it takes awhile for him to attack his target and will
      consume about 1.5 turns as it would normally take to attack regularly.
      So if your party's HP is low and your fighting against a powerful boss
      and you need to kill him quick before he kills your party then Jumping
      is not always the best option.

WTF is the guy talking about? Allowing magic to "disappear" plus generally begin the last hope for the party surviving is usually why you want him to Jump.

Quote from: Palom's Bluff command description
      The BLUFF command is used to raise his magic Power, but this only works
      during battle. However it raises his magic power by very little and
      will need to be used serveral times before you see any significant
      results.

Increasing your spell multiplier by 4 must be "weak" huh? What an idiot.

Quote from: Description of Smoke
Also his Smoke command
      is used to run from battles except of course boss battles. At first it
      might not seem useful because you can easily run away from enemies, but
      enemies like EVIL MASK, Behemoth, or Red Dragons you cannot run away
      from except with the use of Smoke.

Man, I just want to hang the guy.

Quote from: Yang's Command List Descriptions
NOTE: Dont' bother using the Power Command with Yang. It takes up three
      turns for him to do an attack that does equal damage as if he wasn't
      using the Build command. However it does raise your chance of
      doubling your attack power, but only if you lucky and its pretty rare
      if that ever happens.

      Also don't bother using the Bear command either. Although it says his
      defense is raised it is only raised by one point each time and it takes
      two turns for him to use it and will leave him open to attack.
      Also his Kick command will hit all enemies but his overall attack power
      will be averaged depending on how many enemies there are, so each hit
      will not result in his normal attack power, so unless there are three
      or more opponents just use Yang's fight command instead.

      Yang's KICK command will attack everyone for relatively weak damage,
      it's better you stick to his Fight command, even if it is against a
      group of enemies.

Luckily I wrote something about it, thus removing stupid rumors and junk.

Quote from: Listed in Weapon Section
SHADOW
Attack Power: 10
Hit percentage: 80%
Equipped by: Dark Knight
Special attribute: Casts SILENCE randomly with each successful hit
Aquired by: Initially equipped

Just die please.

I'll just stop and let you read that for yourselves.

2711
Critical hits seem to increase the weapon power that is doing the critical hit. This implies that Edge's critical hits are much weaker since the weapons in his hand are normally weaker. I don't know what to make of Yang's critical hits though, since attack power is derived by a level formula like FF1's Monk. Claws have 0 attack power, which is why this is worth looking into... I assume claws have 0 impact on critical hits.

2712
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Item - Dark Matter
« on: March 23, 2008, 02:25:44 PM »
It was finished, stuff just got cut during development. If you're going to use that fact to say it's unfinished then every game ever released is unfinished. :wink:

 :tongue:

2713
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Item - Dark Matter
« on: March 23, 2008, 02:13:13 PM »
Well, the original game was never really finished, so go figure.

2714
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF4 Item - Dark Matter
« on: March 23, 2008, 01:24:22 PM »
The spell multiplier on thos Grimoires must be equal, if not greater than "magic immunity" the game does.

Anyways, I've concluded this item is simply just a "token" item as it simply represents the state of the evil being Zemus happens to be.

2715
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Barrier Status...
« on: March 23, 2008, 12:36:06 PM »
I've gotten around to testing this.. and have confirmed the virtual invinciblity to physical attacks. Hmm.. I wonder why this was never made into a spell (and why I didn't bother pondering its description in the FF4 Editor...)