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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2008, 09:05:20 PM »
Quote from: assassin on August 23, 2008, 08:36:49 PM
Quote
The undead behemoth's death animation is incorrect because the non-present living one is technically still "alive" at the end of the battle.

if it's considered alive, then how's it coughing up any prize?


Because you defeated slot 1 in the first formation, the same reason you get that useless ThunderBlade/Jewel Ring from an empty slot in the unmodified battle. It's reading treasure drop data from slot 1 in the second formation regardless of whether there's an enemy in it or not. I don't know exactly how the game treats non-present enemies but it seems to count them as being alive for the death check at the end of the battle. Changing the undead behemoth's death script to only check for the monster in slot 2 being defeated makes it work correctly again.
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assassin

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2008, 08:46:10 AM »
ok, that sorta makes sense..

Quote
It's reading treasure drop data from slot 1 in the second formation regardless of whether there's an enemy in it or not.

but isn't it reading the drop data from slot 1 _because_ it's determined the enemy in that slot to be dead?  and if it has, then why would a dead enemy be included in the animation (rather than ignored by it)?  or when you speak of "alive", do you mean there's some graphical flag?

EDIT: or did the graphical problem only occur in Veldt SrBehemoth battles, and not the original?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 09:02:58 AM by assassin »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2008, 09:46:54 AM »
Quote from: assassin on August 24, 2008, 08:46:10 AM
but isn't it reading the drop data from slot 1 _because_ it's determined the enemy in that slot to be dead?  and if it has, then why would a dead enemy be included in the animation (rather than ignored by it)?  or when you speak of "alive", do you mean there's some graphical flag?

That's the part that doesn't really make any sense to me either, the only thing I can think of is that its lack of presence saves it from being killed. If you change the undead formation so its behemoth is also in slot 1 it will be killed as soon as the battle with it starts and you'll end up with a single BehemothSuit. I suppose the way to test this would be to modify the script so the behemoth in slot 1 is called in and see if it dies instantly when that is done, and see if the animation works correctly afterward. I'll give that a try later on.

 :edit:

Well, I have to admit defeat this time. The problem has nothing to do with the non-present enemy being considered alive and everything to do with the death animation itself. I had both enemies present and killed them both at the same time with Ultima, the animation was shown on the enemy in slot 1 and slot 2 just disappeared like before. Now we know the real cause, stupid death animation must only work correctly with the first enemy its supposed to apply to. :tongue:

Quote from: assassin on August 24, 2008, 08:46:10 AM
EDIT: or did the graphical problem only occur in Veldt SrBehemoth battles, and not the original?

No, it definitely occurs in the original, I never tried fighting it on the Veldt but I'd imagine it would be the same.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 10:11:27 AM by Dragonsbrethren »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2008, 10:10:14 AM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on August 24, 2008, 09:46:54 AM
Quote from: assassin on August 24, 2008, 08:46:10 AM
EDIT: or did the graphical problem only occur in Veldt SrBehemoth battles, and not the original?

No, it definitely occurs in the original, I never tried fighting it on the Veldt but I'd imagine it would be the same.

The death animation for the boss and Veldt battles are the same for all versions of the SrBehemoth.
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assassin

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2008, 10:15:23 AM »
re your previous post: gar, irritating inconsistency.

i found another formation with dormant enemies: Chaser + Trapper x3.  i hacked Chaser's counterattack script so all it had was "If monster is in formation #122 / If monster is dead/ Monsters #1-6 are killed, diagonally [i.e. the undead SrBehemoth fade]".  surprisingly, the animation appeared perfectly fine.

then i noticed that unlike dead SrBehemoth, Chaser is in the very first slot of its formation, and all 3 Trappers in later slots.  so i tweaked the formation to move a Trapper from Slot #3 to Slot #1, and Chaser from #1 to #2.

sure enough, its fade animation was replaced with the pause followed by the quick disappear  (i assume that's what you saw with SrBehemoths?).

i was gonna say you could switch living and undead SrBehemoths between slots #1 and #2 in both formations #424 and #452, and avoid having to edit the undead's script.  but living SrBehemoth has a position-dependent command in its script, so no go, as you'd have to edit that one instead.  motherfucker.

besides, i'd be uncomfortable relying on monster formation positioning to avoid the animation bug.  seems too damned arbitrary.  gives me nightmares about the Cranes.
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assassin

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2008, 10:20:21 AM »
*sees Db's edit*

i like how we crack these things in parallel. :)

and it seems you've narrowed it down beyond what i had..  i thought maybe having a dormant enemy before a present enemy in a formation was throwing the animation, but from what you say, this animation is simply very limited.
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2008, 10:32:06 AM »
Quote from: assassin on August 24, 2008, 10:15:23 AM
sure enough, its fade animation was replaced with the pause followed by the quick disappear  (i assume that's what you saw with SrBehemoths?).

Yes. It seems we have this thing figured out, although it's odd that the animation worked fine for the Trappers before you changed their slots.

Quote from: assassin on August 24, 2008, 10:20:21 AM
and it seems you've narrowed it down beyond what i had..  i thought maybe having a dormant enemy before a present enemy in a formation was throwing the animation, but from what you say, this animation is simply very limited.

This is still a possibility, I'll test it later.
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assassin

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2008, 11:28:58 AM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on August 24, 2008, 10:32:06 AM
Yes. It seems we have this thing figured out, although it's odd that the animation worked fine for the Trappers before you changed their slots.

well, it worked fine for the Chaser.  the Trappers were dormant, so they rightfully didn't show up in the animation.


Quote from: Dragonsbrethren
Quote from: assassin on August 24, 2008, 10:20:21 AM
and it seems you've narrowed it down beyond what i had..  i thought maybe having a dormant enemy before a present enemy in a formation was throwing the animation, but from what you say, this animation is simply very limited.

This is still a possibility, I'll test it later.

i think what you said was right.  using the original Chaser+Trapper formation ordering, making the Trappers present rather than dormant, and using the aforementioned modified Chaser script (i.e. with the SrBehemoth fade animation on enemies #1-6), when i killed Chaser, it did the fade, and the Trappers disappeared suddenly.  so i modified the Chaser script command to use an FEh (fade enemies #2-6) as opposed to an FFh; this time, the first Trapper did the fade, while the Chaser disappeared suddenly along with the other 2 Trappers.  so my test was in keeping with your conclusion that "Now we know the real cause, stupid death animation must only work correctly with the first enemy its supposed to apply to. "
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2008, 11:59:06 AM »
Ah, okay then, I guess this one is solved. :happy:
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Odbarc

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Re: FF3/6 - SrBehemoth
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2008, 06:19:37 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on August 22, 2008, 12:15:51 AM

Normally, I do some Veldt scavenging for items (that means Gau get some Leap time, I mean, I'm crazy), and I do actually try to get the Snow Muffler because it's practically overpowered...

I love Snow Muffler. And since both Gau and Mog can get use it, you can have them pwning stuff without the Paladin Shield.
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