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Print Page - FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
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Library of the Ancients => Final Fantasy IV Research & Development => Topic started by: Deathlike2 on December 11, 2007, 08:44:55 PM
Title: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 11, 2007, 08:44:55 PM
I've gotten to like this sword after a previous discussion with JCE over it. It makes battles mindlessly easy if you aren't doing any sort of "controlled" attacking. If this weapon ate Dragons alive, I'd use it all day.
However, this weapon is indeed buggy. Part of this is probably oversight, but then again this game was still somewhat unfinished to begin with... oh well.. to detail the issues..
1) Equipping the Avenger Sword while in combat doesn't change the attack power... you will have the attack power of the previously held weapon. If you were to have Cecil at max stats (99 STR and 96+ AGI at level 99), swapping the Crystal Sword for the Avenger Sword will allow you to deal an average of 9000 damage. This bug goes away after the battle is over. In theory, this tactic is relatively overpowered. This is fixed in FF4A AFAIK.
2) If the Avenger Sword is equipped before the battle with Zeromus, particularly on Cecil, he is forever stuck in that battle. AFAIK, FF4A has this bug "fixed" where "Berserk" status is uninflictable until post-Zeromus change.
On a related FF4A change, if Charm is inflicted on the wielder, Berserk status is removed... though this seems specific to FF4A. Also, Black Hole removes this status completely in FF4A. FF2/4 continues to reapply the status under both instances...
3) There are some peculiar properties with the Charm status, especially when afflicted on the Avenger Sword wielder (this doesn't apply to Berserk since it is not possible otherwise). The first attack made while under Charm actually hits the enemy... sometimes continues for a longer duration but eventually follows proper Charm targeting...
It is worth documenting this anyhow.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: JCE3000GT on December 11, 2007, 10:34:47 PM
I'll always love my Avenger sword. :cookie:
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 15, 2007, 12:32:27 PM
Another bug...
The guy wielding the Avenger Sword will not attack until the characters preceding him in the attacking order (which was documented in another thread) executes a command. After the preceding character executes a command, the Avenger Sword user attacks like a normal Berserked user.
The only exception here though is if the wielder of said weapon is in the first attacking slot (middle).
This bug does not occur in FF4A (not sure if it was still borked in the US version/Jap v1.0 version of the game).
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 25, 2007, 11:09:15 AM
Addtionally, if the Avenger Sword wielder is coming off Charm, the character is reberserked when his turn comes up... so they may be stuck doing nothing for several turns.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: JCE3000GT on December 25, 2007, 12:16:34 PM
Here's a bug I noticed with the Avenger sword and the first Zeromus battle (the one where Cecil needs to use the Crystal), when there are more than 2 characters berserked with Kain equipped with the Avenger I would have Cecil cast a spell and Kain would go into his casting animation. I haven't been able to reproduce this bug, in 10 years. That's how I knew Kain even HAD a casting animation. It was on my cart, and this is probably more of a berserk bug--but the fact that Kain was the recipiant of this interesting bug while equipped with the Avenger I suspect it has something to do with it.
Hopefully someone else can reproduce this.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 25, 2007, 12:56:48 PM
Which version of the game are we talking of?
I would suggest you tinker with the battle order and see if that changes the situation.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 25, 2007, 02:02:24 PM
It seems to me the bug is caused when there is no shaking by Zeromus. Part of the shaking process is inflicting a multitargeted Dispel on everyone, making Kain stop from attacking further. When he fails to do it before Kain's turn, it seems that something goes haywire and the Berserk is reinstated and that spell effect comes up.
However, Kain doesn't look to have a spell casting stance.. but for sure he was meant to have some spells before this game was finalized.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: JCE3000GT on December 25, 2007, 09:11:43 PM
It was FF2us 1.0 cart that I did it on. That is exactly the glitch.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on June 23, 2008, 12:25:48 PM
I had something very similar to that happen to me a day ago, I was doing some testing for my hack and after Cecil used the Crystal Kain proceeded to use it as well. :whoa:
No clue how I triggered it, wish I had made a savestate because my attempts to reproduce it today failed.
Edit: Got it to happen again, seems to happen anytime anyone is casting magic when the crystal is used.
Almost makes me wonder if the Avenger was supposed to make Cecil auto-use the crystal in this battle...probably just a glitch caused by berserk being removed and reapplied constantly though.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: bond697 on June 26, 2008, 03:36:41 AM
so, i can't sleep, and this thread looked pretty neat. anyway, i got this glitch working. interesting to see kain's casting animation. as soon as cecil, et al were revived, i had cecil cast cure2. right after he finished casting, kain took a shot at casting. :happy:. anyway, the orbs around him weren't glitched, they were perfect. let's see if i can do it again. i think it has to do with kain's turn being directly after cecil's.
edit: got it to work 4 more times. just have the other 4 members keep casting magic, and eventually it'll happen. grabbed a couple pics of the last one, but i'll add the one different-looking one from death's set:
(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8233/52129505oi0.th.png) (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=52129505oi0.png) this was after rosa, but before edge, obviously.
granted, i'm late to the party, but it's nice to finally see a "reproduction" of the picture of kain using magic that dkk made reference to from the that ffiv ultimania book. i wonder what other actions this glitch can cause kain to copy. you just have to catch kain just right, it doesn't necessarily have to be with cecil.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 26, 2008, 06:08:12 AM
I had something very similar to that happen to me a day ago, I was doing some testing for my hack and after Cecil used the Crystal Kain proceeded to use it as well. :whoa:
No clue how I triggered it, wish I had made a savestate because my attempts to reproduce it today failed.
Edit: Got it to happen again, seems to happen anytime anyone is casting magic when the crystal is used.
Almost makes me wonder if the Avenger was supposed to make Cecil auto-use the crystal in this battle...probably just a glitch caused by berserk being removed and reapplied constantly though.
Perhaps, but the latter explaination (which is the same one I came to) seems to be the issue. The auto-use thing is usually done for an entire battle (auto-battle)... so it's not possible.. and I don't think anyone checked the Avenger Sword for the buggy behavior (I've only tested one version, but I'm sure it lingers in other versions.. and there was a specific fix for it in FF4A as an obvious hint to its overpoweredness). The best you can do is like the Golbez-Rydia summoning situation and "summon" Rydia out of hiding...
I do think the auto-Berserk effect while retaining the previous weapon's attack power is arguably the best abusive thing you could do for this game (free Cecil Berserk ignoring Crystal Armor's Berserk resistance late game == insane damage dealing).
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 10, 2008, 10:09:21 PM
Mega :bump:
I guess it's worth following up on the Avenger duplication bug.
For reference, the process is to equip Cecil with a Bow+Arrow setup.. Bow in the bad hand, arrow in the good hand.
In battle, remove the arrows from the good hand, and right afterwards, you select the Avenger and equip that on the bad hand. Apparently, the game has poor code regarding 2-handed weaponry as you can perform this with other 2-handed weapons (such as the Poison Axe).
Then, you finish the battle.
Once you get out of battle, you will see a number right next to the right hand, signifying the bug was successfully performed.
In further testing, you can do the same for shields, by putting the bow in the good hand, and arrows in the bad. You would remove the arrows as normal and put the sword in the good hand.
Anyways, the issue is that the Avenger (via the aut0-Berserk effect) prevents the proper decrementing of the arrow removal. This is fixed in FF4ET for the duplication part.. not the bad 2-handed check part.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 11, 2008, 02:32:28 AM
Ok, the Zeromus-Avenger casting bug was analyzed a bit more. Apparently this bug occurs in FF4, FF2US 1.0, and 1.1. This bug is fixed in FF4ET.
You can do this with other characters and their spells.
The message only appears depending on the targeting and success... if it targets a living ally, it displays the message. If it targets Zeromus, it doesn't (because it would auto-fail on his invicibility status).
It seems to me that the Avenger Sword tries to get/repeat the last thing you did which happens to be casting a spell, but it selects the very first spell, which does absolutely nothing. This might be interesting for exploiting it for a hack.
:edit: Some pics: (http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3946/finalfantasyivj00085mj9.th.png) (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyivj00085mj9.png)(http://img525.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif) (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 17, 2008, 10:48:32 AM
Looking to Clet's FAQ links... I found this: http://web.archive.org/web/20061129021254/www.parabox.or.jp/~takashin/ff4ura.htm
This list of bugs isn't really surprising, though it brings up some fun filled bugs... it seems to refer to the Avenger for one.
Expanding on the Drain-Avenger bug, basically, it's the same thing as the attack power bug.
When you swap weapons with the Avenger, the current attack power/stats are not properly updated, so the attack power and elemental attributes are "saved".
Now, obviously it's not that much different than casting Berserk on a character, but in Cecil's case, you can work around the Crystal Armor's Berserk resistance.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 05, 2012, 11:58:26 PM
:bump: The WSC version of this bug is really strange. It is a hybrid between the SNES and GBA versions.
The character equipped with the weapon usually goes first, based on Agility, but not on preemptive strikes. I'm not sure if the ATB bug is affecting it.. but attacks with the Avenger Sword tend to wait on other characters taking their turn. It can take from 1-3 (sometimes 4) characters turns before the character with the Avenger attacks. Usually, a second attack is made by the time every other character on the field has their inputted command... Otherwise, the Avenger user does nothing, while the enemy keeps attacking...
How the hell did this bug get through testing?
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 06, 2012, 01:04:15 AM
This bug starts from the WSC version, and seems to occur in the GBA version. I have no idea if this affects the PSP version.
A character wielding the Avenger Sword seems to be "immune" to gradual petrify. The initial hit will show the GBA version's gradual petrify (looks like paralysis, but it isn't), and then the character "gets out of it" somehow on a visual basis. Subsequently multiple gradual petrify attacks to move along this condition doesn't seem to do anything (I should try to perform more thorough testing on this). When the target with the Avenger Sword takes damage, they go back into the gradual petrify status look until they attack again (and look normal again).
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 31, 2013, 04:50:22 PM
To comment on this, the phenomenon is Very clear when you remove Berserk from the Avenger Sword.
If you ask me the Avenger Sword was not originally meant to be an Auto-Berserk Weapon but possibly a Mime weapon, here are my notes on what I saw...
"So I started looking into why the Avenger causes Berserk... then things got weird...
Following it a short ways when equipped in battle I came across a 04 which was being put into 7E2004 (The Status Byte) so I changed it and the status appeared to work, but Cecil first used the Avenger as an Item before proceeding to attack (While petrified mind you).
Then thinking that maybe if I just disabled the status byte all together, maybe that would solve the problems? No. No it did not.
What it did... and this is kind of difficult to believe, was had Cecil Mirror every Move Kain would do. Kain fights, Cecil would fight, Kain Jumps, Cecil would use Dark Wave, Kain uses an Item, Cecil will attempt to use the same item. Cecil would even go so far to try and cast spells that Kain had used.
If Kain has yet to act Cecil will just continue to use the Avenger as an item, as odd as that is.
It's almost like a proto-type Mimic class from later FF's. I can't say I Ever expected to find behavior like that present in FFIV."
They could have easily made this just an Auto-Berserk Weapon without that highly odd caveat that copies another character's commands (which explains why the Berserked User won't start to act until another party member does because the game may be "waiting" for an action to "Copy".
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 31, 2013, 05:44:46 PM
I think it explains some of the oddities...
Is it strictly copying Kain, or is it the slot that the character is occupying?
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on January 31, 2013, 06:17:53 PM
Pretty interesting stuff. Like Deathlike asked, does this only apply to Kain, or is that all you tested it with? It seems to me like the bug in the Zeromus battle is related to Zeromus's shaking removing the auto berserk, causing the sword to utilize this old mimic behavior. That would imply the wielder will copy anyone's actions, though.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 31, 2013, 06:42:40 PM
It was only Kain/Cecil that I tested this on. I'll test it with a full team to see what happens...
Alright, I have a team of Dark Knight Cecil, Palom, Rydia, Yang, and FuSoYa and allowed everyone to equip the Avenger.
Yang (Top) Rydia (Upper) Cecil (Middle) FuSoYa (Lower) Palom (Bottom)
So far it seems that FuSoYa will only copy Palom. Hmm... might this have anything to do with Palom and He both being capable of Twin Magic? (When used together the two cast W. Meteo) Curiously W. Meteo doesn't take any MP. Bot sure if that was mentioned at all.
So not only do they Mimic the school of magic used. They will go as far as to use the Spell that was in their spot (I had Palom use a Modified Protect on himself that was in his second slot and FuSoYa reacted by using the spell that was in his second slot).
If the character has a spell they can't afford in that slot that is mimic'ed the game will surprisingly say "Not Enough MP" after the casting is attempted.
It is not tied to Slot, it is tied to character. Specifically with the Avenger on FuSoYa he is tied to Palom's moves, no matter where Palom is placed as bizarre as that seems. But if it's Palom... I wonder...
Do you think that maybe they had originally intended the "Twins" behavior to Literally mirror one another? (I'll edit this post as I find out more)
Hmm, this is peculiar... I put the Avenger sword on Palom now and the first turn he will mimic Cecil's actions. The next turn he will mimic FuSoYa's actions...
Third and Fourth turns he still seems to follow FuSoYa, but the fifth he follows Cecil.
Sixth he follows Cecil, seventh he follows FuSoYa.
If. when he's mirroring Cecil, Cecil uses Dark Wave, he will start a Twincast with FuSoYa and cast W. Meteo.
If I try to jump with Palom attempting to mirror Cecil, the game crashes.
Yet when Cecil uses Peep, Palom looks like he does something, but nothing happens.
When the character uses a spell outside the limits of the Mimic's own spell list they will attempt to cast a White Magic Spell which says "nothing happened" (Likely Spell 00)
Rydia will mimic FuSoYa for a couple of turns and then change to Palom, switch to Cecil, then back to FuSoYa. I have no idea how this order is determined, but it does not seem random.
After two turns of mimicking Palom, Yang stopped acting all together, regardless of who acted.
Dark Knight Cecil, after mimicking FuSoYa consecutively for four turns, then switched to Rydia.
So that's been interesting. Now I'll try out the twins, to see how that all reacts, and then move onto the final team since that's the only time to have the Avenger.
A team of Palom/Porom/Cecil, will have Porom mimicking Cecil on the first action, then Palom on the second. Then Cecil for a few more, than Palom again. Hmm... I'll give the Avenger to Palom and see where that goes.
Interesting... when Palom has the Avenger and Porom attempts to use Twin, they both move to use it, but nothing happens. It seems that with two people the game will mimic each character, or at least that's the case with Palom and the Avenger. When Cecil took an action, he took an action, when Porom took an action, he took an action.
With the normal group of five, Paladin Cecil with the Avenger will mimic Edge for several turns, and then mimic Rosa, then Kain, then Rydia, then Edge for three more turns, than Rydia, than Rosa, than Rydia, than Edge. (So on and so forth)
The rest follow different patterns in that regard.
So it would appear to me that this was intelligently put together, but something must not have sat right with the code. Testers may not have liked the particular patterns or some such or possibly they just never finished fully programming its functionality. I do know though it is far too elaborately put together to be a simple glitch.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 31, 2013, 06:56:39 PM
In my limited use of using cheat codes to insert the Twin command for regular battles and occasionally watching really weird stuff happen when running the Fusoya+Golbez vs Zemus battle with the regular 5... Twin has its own quirkiness that I cannot recall too well or explain, but it has a tendency to manipulate particular slots.
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Grimoire LD on January 31, 2013, 07:44:37 PM
Heh, a lot of my free time as a kid was checking out Twin combinations, some outright froze the game. Some did not I don't recall finding anything peculiar though as in other skills that would be used. I am curious to know if FuSoYa is in a party with Palom and Porom if they will still Twincast with each other of if they will try with him?
But that's really a subject for another topic...
Title: Re: FF2/4 The Buggy Avenger Sword
Post by: Deathlike2 on January 31, 2013, 10:34:18 PM
W-Meteor (Double Meteor) was always free. This includes the GBA port which modified it a bit.