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Phoenix

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"Sing" Command
« on: February 12, 2008, 05:34:27 PM »
The US version of Sing has only three songs, right? (Charm, Silence, Sleep) Does this differ from FF4 or FF4A? One of them has Curse, I remember reading. Also, most guides say that the song differs depending on the harp, but for FF2us I can't tell a difference. The songs/chance of songs seemed the same.

As for other characters using the command, they need a harp equipped, but it seems to work fine. Cecil seemed less successful than Edward in the song effects -- the only stat he has that's lower than Edward is Will, so the chance of success might be related to that.
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 06:15:00 PM »
I'd have to replay FF4 (which I will get around to doing soon) to see the differences... but I don't recall many differences in terms of Sing.

The song selection appears to differ depending on the harp... (probably in the selection ratio). The Dreamer Harp tends to sing lullibys whereas the Charm Harp tends to sing the Song of Confusion.

Once in a while, Edward does not sing of any particular effect.

Frog Song exists when Edward is a Frog himself.

Sing refuses to work while Edward is Silenced.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 07:01:51 AM »
Isn't Frog Song the only song he can sing while a frog? That's all he's ever sung for me... not that I've frogged him that often...
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 04:11:01 PM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on February 13, 2008, 07:01:51 AM
Isn't Frog Song the only song he can sing while a frog? That's all he's ever sung for me... not that I've frogged him that often...

Yes.

This is one of the few commands that favor the harp attacks than the command itself.
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2008, 05:07:24 AM »
At some point, I will test the success rate of Song (other than failure to sing anything which is part of the randomness ofthe command). I believe Wisdom/Intelligence powers Frog and Sleep and Will/Spirit powers Charm and Silence.
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2008, 04:34:53 PM »
The spells are powered by Wisdom/Intellgence+Will/Spirit.

It requires something like 48-64 Will to make sure Charm/Mute always work.
It requires something like 64-80 Wisdom to make sure Sleep/Frog always work.

The irony here is that Charm the White Magic spell always worked for me (well, minus those monsters that were resistant).
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Lenophis

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2008, 04:43:37 PM »
Those look like really round numbers, now I'm wondering what the formula is. :hmm:
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2008, 04:48:11 PM »
Quote from: Lenophis on February 21, 2008, 04:43:37 PM
Those look like really round numbers, now I'm wondering what the formula is. :hmm:

The numbers are "round" because of a simple formula (documented by BSiron)..

Quote from: BSiron's Archaic Algo FAQ
BLACK:
the effectiveness of black magic is dependent on the WIS stat of the caster.
some spells have a base damage, which is then multiplied by the black magic
multiplier, B, which is determined as B = [ WIS / 4 ] + 1.

WHITE:
likewise for white magic, the power of the spell is dependent only on WILL.
there is a similar white magic multiplier, W = [ WILL / 4 ] + 1.
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Phoenix

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 03:13:29 AM »
Information from the Sing subroutine:

At least for FF2us, the harp equipped doesn’t affect which song is sung by Edward. In the subroutine, it gives an equal 25% chance to Silence, Charm, Sleep, and “Nothing happened.” The Song of Toad is 100% successful if in Toad state. However, since spells are still casted, once the song has been chosen the success rate of the spell is still its internal hit rate.
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 07:20:21 AM »
Does it get the Slot1 spell hit rate bonus?

I figured that would be the case, I know for sure that increasing the Wis/Will of the character increases success (testing it by hacking Edward's stats) for the spells.

Does Edward's Sing command behave differently in FF4 PSX version? I heard it does a "curse" in one of the songs... I could be totally wrong. Dragonsbrethren?

The subroutine needs some improvement though (for it not to fail ever).
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 03:27:56 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on March 31, 2008, 07:20:21 AM
Does Edward's Sing command behave differently in FF4 PSX version? I heard it does a "curse" in one of the songs... I could be totally wrong. Dragonsbrethren?

I don't know, I don't use Sing, I've probably never even tried it in the PSX version.
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Phoenix

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 06:44:24 PM »
Once the spell has been chosen then the Slot1 bonus would apply. So it helps the chance of the status spell working, but not of the song being chosen.

I agree that Sing needs improvement as well, since 25% of the time it fails (and the Song of Silence is not very helpful either, considering it doesn't block enemy attacks). I'm changing things around in my hack, but if you want to get rid of the failing part, you can change 1EB03 from message pointer 00 ("Nothing happened") to something of your choice, and 1EB08 from spell 00 to a spell number of your choice. If you do that it should work like the other songs -- let me know if it doesn't.
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 06:50:43 PM »
Silence has a use to a limited number of situations... Mt. Hobs vs Spirits (Fire)/Souls (Fire)/Gargoyles (Weak/Tornado).. that's the short list of spellcasters.

It also has the unfortunate attribute of preventing Sleep/Charm from working on the target due to status priorities.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 07:00:50 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Paladin

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2008, 07:13:10 PM »
I would think Curse or Blind might be good here.
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Deathlike2

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Re: "Sing" Command
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2008, 07:15:34 PM »
Perhaps, but the graphics for Sleep, Curse, and Blind are the same IIRC (lame palette swap, but meh I guess).

A more interesting solution.. remove Silence. Add in Stop or Frog... then add in Slow.

You then have a boss compatible spell plus a decent monster surpressor.

Stop is probably a better choice given that Frog status is not that cool on Edward (though, combined with Rydia's Frog spell and giving Edward a self-blink command would make it interesting). Stop is an improvement over Sleep when you consider status resistances plus Sleep's timer works against Will Power... which for some reason the Weeper monster (the female spirit creature) has a high Magic stat for...

Some of these ideas are based on FF5's Sing song list.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 07:40:50 PM by Deathlike2 »
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