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Deathlike2

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FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« on: December 05, 2007, 08:19:41 PM »
What is the success rate for weapons that deal status effects on hit (I'm not talking of the built in spells like Holy in the Holy Spear, but like weapons like the CatClaw)? Is this number fixed for all weapons?

Does this number apply to the new weapons of FF4A (particularly the ones that cast the extra spell)?
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 08:51:46 PM »
I haven't looked into these much but I'm leaning towards a fixed value - the data definitely isn't stored with the rest of the weapon data and it seems unlikely that they'd store the success rate separately (It's not impossible though, we already know what determines if a weapon can cast magic when used as an item is stored elsewhere as is the spell graphic it will use). Whatever the success rate is it must be high, it's very rare to see a status effect fail unless you're fighting a monster with a resistance to that status, they do fail from time to time so it's not 100%.

If I had to guess I'd say FF4 Advance uses the same rate and they just forgot to update the code to check for the items past 256, would easily explain why none of the new weapons can inflict their status in the US and Japanese 1.0 releases.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 09:09:13 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on December 05, 2007, 08:51:46 PM
I haven't looked into these much but I'm leaning towards a fixed value - the data definitely isn't stored with the rest of the weapon data and it seems unlikely that they'd store the success rate separately (It's not impossible though, we already know what determines if a weapon can cast magic when used as an item is stored elsewhere as is the spell graphic it will use). Whatever the success rate is it must be high, it's very rare to see a status effect fail unless you're fighting a monster with a resistance to that status, they do fail from time to time so it's not 100%.

It's gotta be like 75-80 (90!?!?)% or something like that.

Quote
If I had to guess I'd say FF4 Advance uses the same rate and they just forgot to update the code to check for the items past 256, would easily explain why none of the new weapons can inflict their status in the US and Japanese 1.0 releases.

Too bad that doesn't restore my faith in the Mist Whip.  :bah:
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 09:20:25 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 05, 2007, 09:09:13 PM
Too bad that doesn't restore my faith in the Mist Whip.  :bah:

Isn't the Mist Whip one of the weapons where they forgot to set the "normal" status for that weapon type (Paralysis in this case)? Been a while since I've used it, I just give Rydia an Assassin Dagger.

Speaking of forgotten status effects, the Shadow Blade was supposed to cause darkness status, several guides mention it and there is an unused dark (element)/darkness combination, only dark is used for the weapon though. I can't say the weapon would've been any more useful with it but it would've been cool to have anyway.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 09:57:19 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on December 05, 2007, 09:20:25 PM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 05, 2007, 09:09:13 PM
Too bad that doesn't restore my faith in the Mist Whip.  :bah:

Isn't the Mist Whip one of the weapons where they forgot to set the "normal" status for that weapon type (Paralysis in this case)? Been a while since I've used it, I just give Rydia an Assassin Dagger.

Yes, but that was fixed in the revision. I don't like the Assassin Dagger in this instance though, because the Dragon Whip (Dragon's Whisker) is simply far superior overall. Besides, Porom is so much more useful with that weapon.  :laugh:

Quote
Speaking of forgotten status effects, the Shadow Blade was supposed to cause darkness status, several guides mention it and there is an unused dark (element)/darkness combination, only dark is used for the weapon though. I can't say the weapon would've been any more useful with it but it would've been cool to have anyway.

Well, that status was never fixed, but only one enemy (which simply happens to be a boss) has been weak against said weapon from Day 1. It would've been even nicer if the armor matched the weaponry (for obvious reasons)... specifically immunity to Death (especially if you made the dumbass mistake of confusing a TinyMage) and Darkness (damn SandMoths). I find it strange that in the beastiary lists a few monsters that are not undead types that are immune to the darkness elemental (Blue Dragon comes to mind)... why that is beyond me...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 04:15:00 PM »
Does this hit rate get screwed up when both weapons are the same type? For instance, if I had two Catclaws, I seem to not be able to put enemies to sleep as often as I'd like... or is this simply just my imagination?

On the flip side, if both weapons that had a special effect (Catclaw+Poison Claw for instance), it seemed to increase the chances of the special effects to occur....
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 04:46:55 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 05:13:22 PM »
I've never actually tried to equip two Cat Claws (Or double of any status causing weapon) at the same time...the game might do something strange in that situation.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 10:25:16 PM »
Ok, as far as I can tell, the special effect hit rate is tied to the current hit rate of your character wielding the weapon. Aim also influences this as well.

For instance, the Charm Claw has a putrid low hit rate, and that's pretty much why he has difficult inflicting the Charm status on targets. When combined with something that has a high hit rate (let's use the Cat Claw for example), Charm is more frequently inflicted with Sleep.

Also, enemy status hit rate seems to be tied to your evade rate. Unless enemies have some sort of hidden hit rate info that I should be aware of, the rate of infliction is truly tied to the evade rate. This is why characters like Cecil generally get hit by status effects, but less likely with someone such as Rydia who has the Heroine/Minerva Robe equipped.
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Entroper

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2007, 11:57:45 PM »
Some peculiarities I've noticed:

Edward's Dreamer's Harp seems to inflict sleep status only occasionally.  The Lamia Harp inflicts charm status quite reliably, though.

Cecil's Deathbringer (I think this is the Black sword in 2US) almost never works -- except on the Roc enemy, where it works almost 100% of the time.  It may be that the success rate is high, but most of the monsters you face while you have Deathbringer are immune to instant death?
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 12:09:39 AM »
Quote from: Entroper on December 28, 2007, 11:57:45 PM
Some peculiarities I've noticed:

Edward's Dreamer's Harp seems to inflict sleep status only occasionally.  The Lamia Harp inflicts charm status quite reliably, though.

It works fine, but it has more to do with Edward's awful hit rate until he gains some levels.

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Cecil's Deathbringer (I think this is the Black sword in 2US) almost never works -- except on the Roc enemy, where it works almost 100% of the time.  It may be that the success rate is high, but most of the monsters you face while you have Deathbringer are immune to instant death?

It always works for me. It never works on Mt. Ordeals though because every monster is resistant against Death. Remember that if the target loses all its HP first from the hit, no status effects are applied.
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 03:41:10 PM »
Quote from: Entroper on December 28, 2007, 11:57:45 PM
Cecil's Deathbringer (I think this is the Black sword in 2US) almost never works -- except on the Roc enemy, where it works almost 100% of the time.  It may be that the success rate is high, but most of the monsters you face while you have Deathbringer are immune to instant death?

Yeah, immunity and Cecil's strength are the problem, most things that are vulnerable to it can also be killed in a single hit. If you take a trip back to the Damcyan area after getting it and fight Red Marshmallows or Yellow Jellies it works on them, they, along with the Zu, are pretty much the only things you can't kill in a single hit and aren't immune to instant death at that point.

Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 29, 2007, 12:09:39 AM
Remember that if the target loses all its HP first from the hit, no status effects are applied.

I really wish this carried over to FF5, I just started playing through again and I'm really getting tired of the Mage Masher inflicting silence on an enemy that's going to die two seconds later anyway...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 03:56:01 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on January 01, 2008, 03:41:10 PM
Quote from: Entroper on December 28, 2007, 11:57:45 PM
Cecil's Deathbringer (I think this is the Black sword in 2US) almost never works -- except on the Roc enemy, where it works almost 100% of the time.  It may be that the success rate is high, but most of the monsters you face while you have Deathbringer are immune to instant death?

Yeah, immunity and Cecil's strength are the problem, most things that are vulnerable to it can also be killed in a single hit. If you take a trip back to the Damcyan area after getting it and fight Red Marshmallows or Yellow Jellies it works on them, they, along with the Zu, are pretty much the only things you can't kill in a single hit and aren't immune to instant death at that point.

I usually recommend fighting the monsters north of Mt. Ordeals (FF4's peninsula of power), since they are the next best thing to take advantage of this weapon.

Quote
Quote from: Deathlike2 on December 29, 2007, 12:09:39 AM
Remember that if the target loses all its HP first from the hit, no status effects are applied.

I really wish this carried over to FF5, I just started playing through again and I'm really getting tired of the Mage Masher inflicting silence on an enemy that's going to die two seconds later anyway...

To some extent, I agree. On the other hand, you have to factor in the death to undead attacks, which totally matter. FF6's handling of death to undead is far better in this instance.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 10:04:34 PM »
I'm currently now convinced this is affect SOLELY by level.

I've retweaked Rydia to shitty stats to reduce the attack multiplier and she was relatively effective in Paralyzing Pudding monsters.

This suggests the comparison is level based.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2008, 12:40:06 PM »
Old thread deserving of a Mega  :bump:

I've already come to the conclusion that hit rate is the critical factor, but evasion is the second factor. You can easily test this in FF4A with the Dragon's Whisker on Cid with 0% evade.

Additionally... characters have a special factor to be applied in taking status attacks from monsters.. Agility. In my analysis of the Slumber Sword, Agility is used as a special factor in inflicting Sleep on monsters. Well, the same is true for monsters applying statuses on your characters. Having more Agility reduces the probability of taking status attacks. This seems to apply only to the SNES version...
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF2/4/4A Special Effect Hit Rate?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2008, 10:44:25 AM »
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