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Deathlike2

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Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« on: March 19, 2008, 12:39:12 AM »
There seems to be a number of things to this game that needs some fixing.. and it may be worthwhile to do..

1) Add unused dialog to proper parts of the game. There is some dialog that you would think would be shown, but never shown because the game was most likely unfinished.
2) Fix the duplication bug (use FF4ET as a base).
3) Allow FF2US to use the FF4 Active option.
4) Add back in dummied weapons... perhaps adding a new script to trigger them.. like a script to check if all the vehicles surround Mysidia or Baron that some guy gives you the Assassin Knife... or adding the Hand Axe to a shop the town of Silveria/Mythril or to Cid's daughter as a gift or something.
5) Fix the Adamant Armor bug.  :tongue:
6) Apply fix for Stop status in FF2 v1.0 that was applied to FF2 v1.1.
7) Readd all dummied commands...?
8) Fix one dummied command not ever enabled in FF4.
9) Fix back row bit bug.

A more radical hack though is modifying the battle system to take advantage of the other defensive stats (evade and magic evade)... which would make for battles where Cecil can actually miss...

Another radical hack would perhaps add something like FF4A's character switching system, since in theory it should work the same way... not required but a cool idea perhaps.

Thoughts, other ideas, and random objections?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 07:56:53 AM by Deathlike2 »
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I.S.T.

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 01:03:20 AM »
Stupid question, but what is the Adamant Armor bug? >.>

I'm not surprised this game is in need of a bug fix patch. FF games are usually broken and/or incomplete.
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Lenophis

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 01:31:48 AM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on January 19, 2008, 07:28:47 PM
When the Adamant Armor is equipped, then deequiped on any member of the party, the character becomes weak against every basic elemental (Fire, Ice, Lightning) unless there are other elemental protection available.

It seems that there is a bit(s) that is forgotten to be turned off when the Adamant Armor is deequipped, and the characters end up being severly weakened.

You can also transfer this to a new game after resetting the game and the character that was equipped with the Adamant Armor previously will be weak.

I'm not sure if this applies to FF4A though.

This does not apply to the Glass Helmet since the Immune attribute does not even work with this piece of equipment.
I'm still shocked by that.

Wasn't the developer's room removed in the original US version as well? Or am I "misremembering" again?
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Deathlike2

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 01:43:08 AM »
Quote from: I.S.T. on March 19, 2008, 01:03:20 AM
Stupid question, but what is the Adamant Armor bug? >.>

http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=230.0

Quote
I'm not surprised this game is in need of a bug fix patch. FF games are usually broken and/or incomplete.

FF5 is the least buggy game AFAIK. There are a few bugs.. some kinda gamebreaking (one Chemist's mix ignores Berserk status)... others kinda annoying silly (probably wasn't fixed in FF5A but eh Knives and Whips meant to use the Agility stat to increase damage).

Quote from: Lenophis on March 19, 2008, 01:31:48 AM
Wasn't the developer's room removed in the original US version as well? Or am I "misremembering" again?

Yes. That and FF4ET.

Edit:
Quote from: Lenophis on March 19, 2008, 01:31:48 AM
Quote from: Deathlike2 on January 19, 2008, 07:28:47 PM
When the Adamant Armor is equipped, then deequiped on any member of the party, the character becomes weak against every basic elemental (Fire, Ice, Lightning) unless there are other elemental protection available.

It seems that there is a bit(s) that is forgotten to be turned off when the Adamant Armor is deequipped, and the characters end up being severly weakened.

You can also transfer this to a new game after resetting the game and the character that was equipped with the Adamant Armor previously will be weak.

I'm not sure if this applies to FF4A though.

This does not apply to the Glass Helmet since the Immune attribute does not even work with this piece of equipment.
I'm still shocked by that.

Shocked by what? Btw, I did make an error in the Glass Helmet.. the Immune attribute at least increases evade to 99%... and it doesn't create the negative effect that the Adamant Armor does, which is good.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 01:49:23 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 06:34:21 AM »
Quote
6) Perhaps add something like FF4A's character switching system, since in theory it should work the same way... not required but a cool idea perhaps.

While this is not exactly what I would call a "bug-fix", I think this was one of the best things about FF4A as opposed to the other FF4 versions. It was a huge selling point for me personally and made it worth suffering through the bugged up CT bars. To see a patch for the original game that implemented this would be a godsend.

That having been said, however, would something like that even be possible? The game only remembers data for certain characters after they leave your party. If you tried to re-add, say, Edward to the party, he'd lose all his levels.
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Deathlike2

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 07:38:29 AM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on March 19, 2008, 06:34:21 AM
Quote
That having been said, however, would something like that even be possible? The game only remembers data for certain characters after they leave your party. If you tried to re-add, say, Edward to the party, he'd lose all his levels.

AFAIK, the game continues to keep track of the characters that were introduced/added to the party. That's how FuSoYa's stats change after you met him since.

The game as far as I can tell doesn't do many, if any checks at the end of the game for the characters, other than Cecil (for obvious reasons). I personally have not tried any of the Game Genie codes that modify the character in a specific slot, but there are some that allow you to swap Young Rydia with Older Rydia.. and the game can't seem to tell the difference (FF4A plays a bit on that fact in Rydia's trial).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 08:22:30 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 08:20:19 AM »
Quote from: Lenophis on March 19, 2008, 01:31:48 AM
Wasn't the developer's room removed in the original US version as well? Or am I "misremembering" again?

It was overwritten by the enlarged training room maps.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 08:23:39 AM »
I was fooling around with some event editing, and one of the commands is of course to add character X to your party. I hacked the event where you get the twinharp to also add Edward himself to your party. It worked, but all his stats were reset to their starting values. When I replaced the command from "add Edward" to "add Kain" he still had his levels.

I'm pretty sure the game keeps data for characters who are meant to rejoin you (such as Kain, Rydia, and even FuSoYa), but discards data for ones who are not (such as Edward and the twins).
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Deathlike2

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 08:33:15 AM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on March 19, 2008, 08:23:39 AM
I was fooling around with some event editing, and one of the commands is of course to add character X to your party. I hacked the event where you get the twinharp to also add Edward himself to your party. It worked, but all his stats were reset to their starting values. When I replaced the command from "add Edward" to "add Kain" he still had his levels.

I'm pretty sure the game keeps data for characters who are meant to rejoin you (such as Kain, Rydia, and even FuSoYa), but discards data for ones who are not (such as Edward and the twins).

That isn't as bad, since you can be gaining 10000+ EXP easy and perhaps intending to tweak the stats to the max...
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 09:00:36 AM »
Quote
That isn't as bad, since you can be gaining 10000+ EXP easy and perhaps intending to tweak the stats to the max...

But what good is tons of experience if you lose it all every time you swap the character out of the party?
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Deathlike2

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 09:06:49 AM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on March 19, 2008, 09:00:36 AM
Quote
That isn't as bad, since you can be gaining 10000+ EXP easy and perhaps intending to tweak the stats to the max...

But what good is tons of experience if you lose it all every time you swap the character out of the party?

Well, there's the idea to "make a choice and stick with it".. and/or add something in the routines that take the other characters stats into account.
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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 09:08:48 PM »
I haven't done extensive testing with adding characters to the party at different points in the game. But I wouldn't screw around with using the old Game Genie codes to do it. Some of those have weird and unexpected side effects.

You can very easily add (or remove) any character to your party in the battery save game file (Including the glitched-up records for Anna and Golbez) with LordJ's FF4h save editor.  http://www.angelfire.com/pq/jumparound/ff4h.html

Someone with a mind to could test out adding characters into the party, like Edward or the Twins late in the game, say during the Lunar Subterrane or wherever. I don't think the game loses the character's data...but again I haven't tested it much.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2008, 06:13:27 AM »
Quote
Someone with a mind to could test out adding characters into the party, like Edward or the Twins late in the game, say during the Lunar Subterrane or wherever. I don't think the game loses the character's data...but again I haven't tested it much.

As I already said in this thread, I tested it and it doesn't work. The game discards the data for the characters that don't normally rejoin you.

Quote
You can very easily add (or remove) any character to your party in the battery save game file (Including the glitched-up records for Anna and Golbez) with LordJ's FF4h save editor.

Hacking the save might be a different story, but I think the original suggestion was more along the lines of an in-game event that allowed you to change party members.

Quote
Well, there's the idea to "make a choice and stick with it"..

The more I think about this idea the more I like it. In fact I think it might be fun to just completely wipe the slate clean plot-wise and create a totally new game using FF4's engine and basic character setup in which you pick your party in the beginning of the game and keep it throughout. Totally new dungeons, story, etc. Heck, I might just attempt this myself if there are enough tools out there to facilitate it...
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Deathlike2

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 08:50:42 AM »
The problem you will be facing is finding a way to rebalance Palom vs Rydia's superiority in every way. That in itself requires tons of thought.

His Boast command is great early game, but late game he will be limited in ability magic-wise to compensate. My final FF4A group includes Porom over Rosa, not that Rosa's inferior (she's superior as an Archer), but Porom gets enough Agility in equipment bonuses to surpass Rosa, which is very important to me when it comes to White Wizards.

Here's my idea to rework Palom though...

I'm not sure if his stat growth needs real tweaking, but it may be needed.

His commands behavior would certainly need to change late game, perhaps via a script or something.

Twin when alone will cast White magic spells targeted at your own characters.. it will be some semi-hybrid "Remember" command w/o the failure. The spells he would be able to cast the following:
All Cure spells
Haste/Fast
Blink
Protect
Shell

The idea is that Palom is able to channel Porom's White spell list and use it (I have a tough time figuring out a backstory to make this work). He won't have total control over said list which would make this interesting.

Boast would change dramatically. Instead of being able to increase Intelligence (which is easily maxable), it will increase Palom's attack power by 10 (it will stop/fail to work at 255). That way, Palom can be a remotely decent fighter late game, something that Rydia can't necessarily compete with.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 10:16:02 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Create a Bugfix Patch/Hack for All FF4 Versions?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 02:25:34 PM »
Interesting. Although I think my solution would be to take Rydia's black magic away and just make her a straight-up summoner. She might get some effect spells or something if she needs more support but I think the summons and elemental black spells just overlap way too much to both be put on the same character.
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