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Author Topic: Imp's Rage  (Read 933 times)

13375K31C43R

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Imp's Rage
« on: February 07, 2016, 02:38:52 AM »
According to Master ZED's Bug FAQ, there's a bug that occurs when Gau tries to enter Rage but is turned into an Imp beforehand. Rage is a command that is not compatible with Imp, so Gau will Fight instead, and will not gain any of the statuses or immunities attached to the Rage; however, he will still become autonomous.

Quote
Normally, during Rage, on every attack the character makes, the properties of the monster in question are reloaded for the character. However, if that character has become an Imp, the property reload routine will ignore the fact that the character is still in a Rage and not even call Rage's reload routine. They will still attack anyway though, making this a dangerous bug. It's also the reason why Critical Hits if Imp doesn't work for characters. Once Imp status is healed, the Rager must still take a turn before the Raged monster's properties are restored to them because the Rage command isn't used during Imp (it's swapped for Fight).

I tried a fix that makes Rage compatible with Imp, thus giving Gau the elemental properties of the Rage as usual, while still ensuring he only attacks and doesn't try to cast any spells (they will fail because of the Imp status). However, there's now an issue if Gau Rages as a monster with immunity to the Imp status because the immunity will prevent the status from being added or removed, meaning Gau will remain an Imp until the battle ends or he is KO'd.

With this in mind, there are three possible ways to fix this. One is to make Rage ignore immunity to the Imp status, but this is probably not a good idea as it veers away from the developers' intentions. Another is to make Rage remove Imp status if immunity is included, but again, probably not a good idea as there may be situations where being an Imp is beneficial (e.g. Imp equipment). The third way, and the best IMO, is to make sure Gau does not become autonomous if he is an Imp.
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assassin

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Re: Imp's Rage
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 08:24:28 AM »
^ pretty sure the bug also happens if you're Imped while already Raging.  i too find arriving at the "right" fix challenging, so postponed any patch indefinitely.  read the 3 posts starting here:
http://mnrogar.slickproductions.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=7058#p7058

because my mind was on mid-Rage Imp, i never thought of this:
Quote from: 13375K31C43R
there's now an issue if Gau Rages as a monster with immunity to the Imp status because the immunity will prevent the status from being added or removed

the bug of using a Rage (or putting on equipment) with immunity to a status that you already have instead locking in that status is larger than this.  see also "uber Regen": poisoning Gau, and Raging most undead monsters (which tend to absorb Poison elemental while being immune to the status).  it's also a contributor to this madness:
http://mnrogar.slickproductions.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6877#p6877

(and the reason i'm not taking the easy option of a monster data hack to fix that behavior.)

so i'm inclined to say the Imp-lock problem is outside the scope of your patch, and you should just put a warning in the Readme about it.  the timing needed to trigger it is pretty specific.  or wait until that bug gets tackled separately -- though the fix is probably on the complicated side.

i agree that the first option in your last paragraph is an undesirable fudge.

EDIT: i misread the second option, and actually like it.  whether it's beneficial to the character or not doesn't change the fact that a status the designers didn't want the emulated monster to have is being given permanently.  my "uber Regen" example above is certainly beneficial, yet has no place being there.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 02:39:53 PM by assassin »

13375K31C43R

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Re: Imp's Rage
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 02:23:05 PM »
Well, the whole point of Imp is to make commands unusable, and if a character tries to use them they Fight instead. So if Rage is one of those commands, including in the case you just mentioned, I'm OK with Gau losing the properties of the Rage. What I'm not OK with is that he becomes autonomous. I think that's the problem that needs fixing.
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assassin

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Re: Imp's Rage
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 02:46:59 PM »
well, the next question becomes how much Imp should thwart a command that's already underway.  is its replacing the next Rage attack enough, or should it also undo conditions given on earlier turns?

decent arguments can be made for either.  what's more objective is that the _contradiction_ where Rage is halfway in effect needs to be done away with.

13375K31C43R

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Re: Imp's Rage
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 06:19:33 PM »
Maybe we need two different patches, one that implements the "remove statuses you're immune to" effect and one that removes the autonomy. For the former patch, it might just be as simple as removing those statuses before adding the immunities to those statuses, or perhaps ignoring the immunities because the statuses were altered using Rage. I'm pretty sure there are Rages that add statuses and their respective immunities, i.e. they lock in those statuses on purpose. So I need to figure out exactly how statuses are configured in order to tweak it the right way.

For the latter patch, do you know if Imp status affects Dance also?
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assassin

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Re: Imp's Rage
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 01:20:00 AM »
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I'm pretty sure there are Rages that add statuses and their respective immunities, i.e. they lock in those statuses on purpose.

they don't do that overtly, but behind the scenes.

Status immunities in this game are two-way: if a target is immune to a status but doesn't have it, it can't be given to it; if a target is immune to a status but already has it, it can't be removed from it.  Under this system, if a start-up status for a monster or piece of equipment is one that's supposed to be permanent (i.e. Mute, Berserk, Muddled, Seizure, Regen, Slow, Haste, Shell, Safe, Reflect, Float), the game implements this (in RAM) by granting the status, then granting immunity to it right afterwards.

monsters who actually have both a status and immunity thereto marked in their ROM data will get that status cancelled.  see http://masterzed.cavesofnarshe.com/GameDocs/monster.txt

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Re: Imp's Rage
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 03:08:44 AM »
as for Dance, yes; Mog stays automatic, but uses Battle instead.  while that is the best ability to look at for comparison, Rage is in a unique category of conferring properties besides the status named after the command.