øAslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&topic=2053.0e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/indexacff.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=5f0fck550j2m4m2fpbtkj2vkm1&board=8.140e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/indexacff.html.zx¾%h^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÈ0PdŸŒOKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip8:ÖŸŒÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿTue, 10 Mar 2020 23:58:14 GMT0ó°° ®0®P®€§²ð®½%h^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿHŸŒ Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.

Author Topic: Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.  (Read 3127 times)

Maeson

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Hello. I really don't want to waste much of your time, so let's get this short:

I'm extremely noob at hacking, but I have been making a small "mod" for Final Fantasy III for the Famicom, which at first was just to improve magic, but after seeing how things work I started to expand the idea bit a bit adding more things.

It was intended for personal use, but after tinkering with it for some time I thought that releasing it for anyone that would like to take a look at it wouldn't be that bad. The mod is yet to be released (I'm playtesting it for the fourth time and fixing the little things I've missed or screwed up) but it will be finished soon.

It focuses mostly in things like the magic, classes and equipment or features like Stealing and item drop, which was kind of lame in the original game. Just trying to make an "improvement" over the game more than wanting to change it completely.

The thing is that I asked where I could share the notes I made, in case someone could have some use for them. I was pointed to this place.

Should I just put a download link for my text file where I have the notes (That i cleaned up as better as I can, seeing how I never did this). Would be any interest at all about them?

I just want to put them so people can use them if they need or want seeing how little information is about this game.

Sorry if I cause any inconvenience by posting here this.

EDIT: Here is the text file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eojgju74atri84y/Hacking%20Notes%20clean%201%2C1.rar?dl=0
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 09:29:36 AM by Maeson »

Grimoire LD

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Hello. I really don't want to waste much of your time, so let's get this short:

I'm extremely noob at hacking, but I have been making a small "mod" for Final Fantasy III for the Famicom, which at first was just to improve magic, but after seeing how things work I started to expand the idea bit a bit adding more things.

It was intended for personal use, but after tinkering with it for some time I thought that releasing it for anyone that would like to take a look at it wouldn't be that bad. The mod is yet to be released (I'm playtesting it for the fourth time and fixing the little things I've missed or screwed up) but it will be finished soon.

It focuses mostly in things like the magic, classes and equipment or features like Stealing and item drop, which was kind of lame in the original game. Just trying to make an "improvement" over the game more than wanting to change it completely.

The thing is that I asked where I could share the notes I made, in case someone could have some use for them. I was pointed to this place.

Should I just put a download link for my text file where I have the notes (That i cleaned up as better as I can, seeing how I never did this). Would be any interest at all about them?

I just want to put them so people can use them if they need or want seeing how little information is about this game.

Sorry if I cause any inconvenience by posting here this.

I've read your posts on romhacking.net and have been interested in seeing these notes which you've alluded to. You can feel free to post them right here if you'd like. Heaven knows I've already written novel-sized amounts of documentation on FFIV Code by this point.

Maeson

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I've been looking at your FFIV Combat Boost hack and I can't begin to imagine how much effort it takes to do that.

I'll try to add a little more info today (Like shops offsets, I only looked for the ones I needed, and might be useful to have a better list) and If it's okay then I'll put a link to the text file on the first post.

I guess my notes are mostly simple and very basic stuff compared to yours, but I guess you have to start from somewhere.

Thank you for the response.

EDIT: Added the text file to the first post.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 09:30:02 AM by Maeson »

Grimoire LD

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FFIII is quite different than I expected it to be under the hood...

 I mean these Elements are rather interesting in comparison to other FF's.

01 - Recovery
02 - Dark
04 - Thunder
08 - Ice
10 - Fire
20 - Air
40 - Earth
80 - Holy

FFIV has it in a completely different setup, with no "Recovery" Element.

01 - Fire
02 - Ice
04 - Lightning
08 - Dark
10 - Holy
20 - Air
40 - Absorb (I'm still not 100% sure why they bothered to make this an element, it's used by Drain and Osmose-like spells. Why it does this instead of tying it to the Immune byte, I have no idea)
80 - Immune OR x4 Damage.

Your notes do seem to have a slight lack of understanding the Bit Sequences, it's just as simple as knowing that bytes sometimes are parsed into a sequence of eight bits and what you're describing in these notes seems to be corresponding to that data type.

Where FFIII separates Element from Status, the two are one in FFIV. Status/Elements are on a separate table. I somewhat imagine there is a similar setup for FFIII since those Status Bytes are not in a bit sequence so there must be a table somewhere containing their exactions. But... those are high values, like Really high, to put it in perspective FFIV doesn't use any more than 63 in decimal. This implies that the valid ones continue until 99 in Hex!

Target Status Needed is an interesting concept and one I did not expect to see for the NES FF's (FFIV doesn't even have such a thing) but it makes a good deal of sense all in all.

That Targeting system is mind boggling... FFIV uses something much simpler, but less robust. Much of its effects are tied into its subroutine, which seems to not present in FFIII. Quick question, if you set the targeting to 30, does it turn any spell into the Sight Spell?

Class... Usability? Wha? I had thought that would be tied to Spell Level, not Spell Type, so does that mean if you gave Dragoon White Magic and allowed these spells to be cast by Dragoons "Class Usability" they could then cast said spells?

Unknown spells...? Wha? Are these unused spells then, or something?

I noticed that there are some Commands just plain missing, most notable are 00-03,

Grr... FFIII had Element Boosts, that's right... FFIV has nothing of the kind. two Steps forward, one step back I suppose.

Great work on recording all 255 choices there!

I suppose since +5 is the only stat up, FFIV has a bit more choice in that regards and that's probably where the Element Boosts met the cutting room floor.

First weapon... are you sure it's not Barehanded? FFIV uses a similar set up if such is the case.

FFIV by the way also has 8 bytes to its equipment.

Ah? An unused Hammer? Sort of like FFIV which instead had an unused Axe...

That's sort of interesting... Claws/Rods/Staffs is the exact same order it starts in FFIV as well. Then it varies significantly.

Does FFIII not have a Racial Attack Bonus like FFI, II, and IV do? As in is there no bytes in weapons that allows it to deal extra damage to Undead or Mages, or anything of that sort? If so that is a little bit strange.

That sad moment when you realize that FFIII had more Weapon Sprites than FFIV does... *sigh*...

57 Looks to be where the split between Weapons and Armors are in FFIII...

FFIV has that split at 60.

There looks to be 40 (in Hex so 64) Armors, in FFIV there is 4F So roughly 80 or so.

And it still had room for Item Magic AND Learnable Spell Items. FFIV though uses a decent chunk of its space on Key Items. I wonder if the Summon Orb routine in FFIV is a remnant of an older time when they had it set up in that particular index.

Overall a very impressive document! I'm looking forward to seeing more!








Maeson

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You make me blush, lol.

As I said I'm really, reallly noob at hacking (This is my first effort besides sprite editing and some text changes), so the bit sequences knowledge is totally something I lack. It's used in several places, like in Steal mechanics too.

I'll try to answer your questions:

About the elements and status values, most of them are used by the game itself, if you go to the enemy portion of the code (Starting at 60010) or weapon/armor data you can see them. I find them pretty high too, but if that's what the developers used there must be for a reason. Probably most of what I listed are repetitions of what could be an original value, but if it's that way, why they wouldn't use it?

It's like the repeated Recovery Element. There are many values that add Recovery, yet the game only uses 01. I think they just added things "just in case" and never used them (Like the equip bonus list, my god that was long).


Something that I found looking at the game is that there's a lot of things that went underused, and if the game is already one of the best on the Famicom, imagine if someone with real skills went to tinker with it.

The status effects don't play a big part of the game, except for some enemies to make them annoying. I added status to weapons to make them a little more interesting.

Petrification and Partial Petrification 2/3 are broken as hell, I had to remove them from weapons because they activate almost everytime.

the Targeting system was a pain in the butt to get listed. Why would put so much space into repeating so many values? There doesn't seem to be any difference in them, more than having several values for each magic level... And it only changes what they can target in battle, so I really don't see that much reason to have so many.

And yes, my mind was full of s**t when I saw that the very value list for weapons and armor is used for spells. Just...Wow. It's both weird as hell and somewhat convinient as well.

But anyway, yes! If you can give MP to a class (Both by figuring out how the level up gains are, which because they must use bit sequences i'm totally lost, or by giving them a set of MP to a class in the "Base Stats section") and put a spell within it's own Class Usability group, and lastly give him/her the Magic Command...

Well:
 

I gave him the value 1F in his base stats:

5B 0E 14 0A 0A 05 0A 00->1F To give him MP from that table (That's not used in the game, by the way).

Then i changed the Class Usability Group from the Safe Spell to 87 (Only Dragoon for Armors, to make an example)

And then changed his Defend Command (05) to magic (15) and Voila, Casting Dragoons!

I really liked the idea of giving classes their own special spells, but it's far from my abilities and maybe I'll consider doing it in the future, as my actual romhack was about trying to improve here and there things without making giantic changes (Improving a little the original, more or less).

I just checked, and I need to correct that part: If you put 30 to one spell, the only change is that the spell becomes Single Enemy/Ally Target. The spell will do whatever it's supposed to do in battle, and outside of battle won't do anything if the spell didn't do anything before.

That's a total fail for my part, sorry.

By the way, what a spell does in and out of battle doesn't seem to be the same. For one, you don't heal the same ammount of HP outside of battle as you do while fighting, and there are several white spells that you can multi-target while in battle you can't (Mini, Toad, Pure...). Warp lets you teleport to other floors of a dungeon, but in battle is a Kill type spell).

Now, I said that "it won't do anything" originally. That was because of the value 0C.

61A80 Sight   00 64 00 00 0C 30 00 32

If you give any spell 0C it won't do anything after it's animation.

The Unknown spells... Yeah, I call them unknown because I can't really see what are they. I'll add their code so you can see them.

They have a power level that doesn't seem to exist in any list of magic anywhere, the Usabilty Group is one that is never used, But if you look at the list, it could go there (It stops at 3E), they use totally different values for targeting, and if you try to copy the code over a known spell, what you get is that the spell is automatically targeted to the caster and will damage him/herself.

About the missing commands, 01, 02 and 03... Well, they are this:



Anything that it's not listed will bring glitches and garbled bits of battle text. Kind of a letdwon, I was expecting secret commands... But they only crash the game.

What I wasn't expecting is so many equipment boosts. Jesus Christ they went out of their way with that. Alongisde Steal and drop mechanics, this is the other thing that screams "WHY DIDN'T YOU USE ME".

By the end of writing all of the effects my eyes couldn't see s**t because of how tired they were.

About the "First Weapon"...

I think you're right. At first I thought it would be 616C8.

But that can't be it, because 616C8 (Which is 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80) has an Armor value, while 61410 has a Weapon Value (00), meaning that it can be "equipped by" anyone. Another oversight on my notes, i'm sorry.

The order of the weapons is mostly consistent, there are a few entries out of order (Axes and hammers where swords are, dark swords and normal swords mixed too...)...

The Hammer is a dummied weapon, you can actually bring it back to the game (Just like the Dream Harp, which I did in my hack) by putting it in a chest or store.

About the Axe in IV... I think Squaresoft hates barbarian weapons :( .

There seems to be none of the racial bonuses in this game, more than, maybe, the "hand made" Dividng monster's "weak to dark swords". But that's just a combination of a Weapon Usability Group Value and the Dark Element on a weapon. Kind of weird, seein how games before and after it have that sort of feature.

FF3 seems to have quite a bit of variety in it's weapons design, which is kind of surprising. The funny part is that you can make weird combinations if you want. The most cool ones are the Boomerang/ Moonring animations with anything else.

57 is Empty Space, yes. If you put it in a shop,  you can buy it! It cost 0! What a rip-off.

The item list was used pretty much at it's full potential, which is good for one part (They made lots of items) but if you want to create something you'll need to expand or remove something before...


All the things we talked here have been corrected on the text file, in case you want to get it again.

I really don't know what more I could say. I could explain monsters a little, although the only thing i've modified about them is HP, Int/Skill and weaknesses, but i wrote pretty much all i learned doing this.

Maybe a Monster List can be helpful, some of them are in weird spots (Unei Clone is almost at the beginning of the list!).

About my hack, I finished playtesting it, and finished fixing things before I went to sleep. I must now finish the aesthetic patches (Menu/Character palettes, optional stuff) and then I think i'll try to upload it to RHDN, if they see it worth enough of being there, of course.

After that I'll take some "vacations", because this has been taking too much free time out of me.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 04:00:23 AM by Maeson »

Grimoire LD

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You make me blush, lol.

As I said I'm really, reallly noob at hacking (This is my first effort besides sprite editing and some text changes), so the bit sequences knowledge is totally something I lack. It's used in several places, like in Steal mechanics too.

It took me a bit of time to comprehend Bit Sequences as well, but once you get it you can see how useful it is... for instance from your bonus chart I can deduce what the 8 Bit Sequences are.

00 - Nothing
01 - Bolt Up
02 - Ice Up
04 - Fire Up
08 - +5 Spirit
10 - +5 Intelligence
20 - +5 Vitality
40 - +5 Agility
80 - +5 Strength

It's as simple as that, really. Since I don't quite know the order the jobs go in, I can't quite figure out the 3 Byte sequence of Equipability though.

Quote
I'll try to answer your questions:

About the elements and status values, most of them are used by the game itself, if you go to the enemy portion of the code (Starting at 60010) or weapon/armor data you can see them. I find them pretty high too, but if that's what the developers used there must be for a reason. Probably most of what I listed are repetitions of what could be an original value, but if it's that way, why they wouldn't use it?

It's like the repeated Recovery Element. There are many values that add Recovery, yet the game only uses 01. I think they just added things "just in case" and never used them (Like the equip bonus list, my god that was long).

Well in the case of Recovery, it's Bit 01, I posted this above but you may not have gotten the gist of it. Hopefully my more recent example above makes sense, that's to do with Bit sequences.

Status though doesn't use that... I haven't a clue what's going on there.


Quote
Something that I found looking at the game is that there's a lot of things that went underused, and if the game is already one of the best on the Famicom, imagine if someone with real skills went to tinker with it.

The status effects don't play a big part of the game, except for some enemies to make them annoying. I added status to weapons to make them a little more interesting.

Petrification and Partial Petrification 2/3 are broken as hell, I had to remove them from weapons because they activate almost everytime.

the Targeting system was a pain in the butt to get listed. Why would put so much space into repeating so many values? There doesn't seem to be any difference in them, more than having several values for each magic level... And it only changes what they can target in battle, so I really don't see that much reason to have so many.

And yes, my mind was full of s**t when I saw that the very value list for weapons and armor is used for spells. Just...Wow. It's both weird as hell and somewhat convinient as well.

But anyway, yes! If you can give MP to a class (Both by figuring out how the level up gains are, which because they must use bit sequences i'm totally lost, or by giving them a set of MP to a class in the "Base Stats section") and put a spell within it's own Class Usability group, and lastly give him/her the Magic Command...

Well:
 

I gave him the value 1F in his base stats:

5B 0E 14 0A 0A 05 0A 00->1F To give him MP from that table (That's not used in the game, by the way).

Then i changed the Class Usability Group from the Safe Spell to 87 (Only Dragoon for Armors, to make an example)

And then changed his Defend Command (05) to magic (15) and Voila, Casting Dragoons!

I really liked the idea of giving classes their own special spells, but it's far from my abilities and maybe I'll consider doing it in the future, as my actual romhack was about trying to improve here and there things without making giantic changes (Improving a little the original, more or less).

Now that is impressive! Good on Square giving themselves that amount of leeway and good on you for discovering it! Now I think what might be going on with those "Unknown Spells" notice that they all have the Spell Level (-1) for their ?Targeting? (And I noticed that Prior to 08 this is all targeting) It is my belief that may be some internal way to tell what level the following spells will be. Try to change them and see what happens. If nothing happens, great! That's eight free spells! If it causes issues than their purpose may be to keep a list in order or some such.



Quote
By the way, what a spell does in and out of battle doesn't seem to be the same. For one, you don't heal the same ammount of HP outside of battle as you do while fighting, and there are several white spells that you can multi-target while in battle you can't (Mini, Toad, Pure...). Warp lets you teleport to other floors of a dungeon, but in battle is a Kill type spell).

Now, I said that "it won't do anything" originally. That was because of the value 0C.

61A80 Sight   00 64 00 00 0C 30 00 32

If you give any spell 0C it won't do anything after it's animation.

The Unknown spells... Yeah, I call them unknown because I can't really see what are they. I'll add their code so you can see them.

They have a power level that doesn't seem to exist in any list of magic anywhere, the Usabilty Group is one that is never used, But if you look at the list, it could go there (It stops at 3E), they use totally different values for targeting, and if you try to copy the code over a known spell, what you get is that the spell is automatically targeted to the caster and will damage him/herself.

FFIV functions similarly with code for out of battle spells and in-battle spells. I'm not surprised to see that here as well (probably in most RPG's it is in that manner)
I've written my thoughts on the Unknown Spells above, I am curious to see the results.

Quote
About the missing commands, 01, 02 and 03... Well, they are this:



Anything that it's not listed will bring glitches and garbled bits of battle text. Kind of a letdwon, I was expecting secret commands... But they only crash the game.

That's... nonsensical... FFIV has only one Command thrown in there which is unused (well two, but it's at the end of the list) and that was a planned Airstrike command for Cid which was never actually completed (or worked on in the first place)... let me take a look at those commands again...

4 - Fight
5 - Defend
6 - Run
7 - Escape (Thief)
8 - Jump (Dragoon)
9 -
A -
B - Terrain (Geomancer)
C - Peep (Scholar)
D - Scan (Scholar)
E -  Steal (Thief)
F - Build Up (Master)
10 - Sing (Bard)
11 - Scare (Bard)
12 - Cheer (Bard)
13 -
14 - Item
15 - Magic

There are some noticeable gaps. I wonder what's going on there... do we have a Pointer Table to commands such as were found in FFIV?

Quote
What I wasn't expecting is so many equipment boosts. Jesus Christ they went out of their way with that. Alongisde Steal and drop mechanics, this is the other thing that screams "WHY DIDN'T YOU USE ME".

By the end of writing all of the effects my eyes couldn't see s**t because of how tired they were.

About the "First Weapon"...

I think you're right. At first I thought it would be 616C8.

But that can't be it, because 616C8 (Which is 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80) has an Armor value, while 61410 has a Weapon Value (00), meaning that it can be "equipped by" anyone. Another oversight on my notes, i'm sorry.

The order of the weapons is mostly consistent, there are a few entries out of order (Axes and hammers where swords are, dark swords and normal swords mixed too...)...

The Hammer is a dummied weapon, you can actually bring it back to the game (Just like the Dream Harp, which I did in my hack) by putting it in a chest or store.

About the Axe in IV... I think Squaresoft hates barbarian weapons :( .

There seems to be none of the racial bonuses in this game, more than, maybe, the "hand made" Dividng monster's "weak to dark swords". But that's just a combination of a Weapon Usability Group Value and the Dark Element on a weapon. Kind of weird, seein how games before and after it have that sort of feature.

FF3 seems to have quite a bit of variety in it's weapons design, which is kind of surprising. The funny part is that you can make weird combinations if you want. The most cool ones are the Boomerang/ Moonring animations with anything else.

57 is Empty Space, yes. If you put it in a shop,  you can buy it! It cost 0! What a rip-off.

The item list was used pretty much at it's full potential, which is good for one part (They made lots of items) but if you want to create something you'll need to expand or remove something before...


All the things we talked here have been corrected on the text file, in case you want to get it again.

I really don't know what more I could say. I could explain monsters a little, although the only thing i've modified about them is HP, Int/Skill and weaknesses, but i wrote pretty much all i learned doing this.

Maybe a Monster List can be helpful, some of them are in weird spots (Unei Clone is almost at the beginning of the list!).

About my hack, I finished playtesting it, and finished fixing things before I went to sleep. I must now finish the aesthetic patches (Menu/Character palettes, optional stuff) and then I think i'll try to upload it to RHDN, if they see it worth enough of being there, of course.

After that I'll take some "vacations", because this has been taking too much free time out of me.

Ah hacking seems to be a never ending journey. This is a fine base which you have gathered and when you're feeling up to it you should delve even deeper. If you need any assistance I'll do what I can though my specialty of hacking lies in the SNES and N64 opcodes. I'll see if I can figure out NES though if you have any requests.

Maeson

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I'll try to get the gist of sequences then. Being able to create your own growth rates and spells could be awesome if I get into this again.

As you explain, then a sequence is just the ammount of values under the same group until a new entry with a different starting effect begins. The equipment bonus is a very good example to understand them if i'm right then... Although there is a big gap between understanding it and understanding the growth tables  (From 721E6 to 732BD).

But that's for another time.

If you're curious, the order of the classes is:

OnionKid-Warrior-Monk-White Mage-Black Mage-Red Mage-Hunter-Knight-Thief-Scholar-Geomancer-Dragoon-Viking-BlackBelt-BlackBelt-M.Knight-Conjurer-Bard-Warlock-Shaman-Summon-Sage-Ninja

Messing around with the Unknown spells doesn't seem to affect the other spells, they do the exact same things, exact same damage (Well, in the same range, magic damage is somewhat random).

About command 08... My fault again, I didn't listed it. Jesus, i'm all kinds of bad doing this.

Commands 09 0A and 13 are this:


I guess two of them were something for the Viking and the M.Knight, as both lack a skill (I NEVER saw the Mystic Knight as a Paladin as some call him. He uses dark swords and demonic armor, maybe there was a early attempt for a "Darkness" attack but then Square gave it White Magic)...


I guess I'll take a look at this again when I feel a little more fresh about hacking and have more knowledge to do something bigger. But who knows when that will be with real life being a jerk. My biggest worry was to put this somewhere for others so they don't have to waste all the time "researching" again.

Thank you so much for taking your time with this, too.

Grimoire LD

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I'll try to get the gist of sequences then. Being able to create your own growth rates and spells could be awesome if I get into this again.

As you explain, then a sequence is just the ammount of values under the same group until a new entry with a different starting effect begins. The equipment bonus is a very good example to understand them if i'm right then... Although there is a big gap between understanding it and understanding the growth tables  (From 721E6 to 732BD).

But that's for another time.

Sort of...

Bits are a little bit complicated but I'll explain it as well as I can.

Here is a Byte that would read 01 - (00000001) Here is a Byte that would read 02 (00000010)... Here is 40 (01000000)... and here is 64. (01100100)

So it's important to remember that it's just a numerical expression to show a single byte that is activated by appropriate routines. Alone these values have no meaning, only when placed in context of specific programming do they gain them.


Quote
If you're curious, the order of the classes is:

OnionKid-Warrior-Monk-White Mage-Black Mage-Red Mage-Hunter-Knight-Thief-Scholar-Geomancer-Dragoon-Viking-BlackBelt-M.Knight-Conjurer-Bard-Warlock-Shaman-Summon-Sage-Ninja

Messing around with the Unknown spells doesn't seem to affect the other spells, they do the exact same things, exact same damage (Well, in the same range, magic damage is somewhat random).

Ah, terrific! You should be able to utilize them in some fashion then, I'd imagine.

Quote
About command 08... My fault again, I didn't listed it. Jesus, i'm all kinds of bad doing this.

Commands 09 0A and 13 are this:


I guess two of them were something for the Viking and the M.Knight, as both lack a skill (I NEVER saw the Mystic Knight as a Paladin as some call him. He uses dark swords and demonic armor, maybe there was a early attempt for a "Darkness" attack but then Square gave it White Magic)...

What was 08 out of curiosity?

I think you may be onto something there. I have a feeling that another one of those unused Commands may have been Throw for the Ninja. If we can find the Pointers we could determine that for certain, but I'm not sure how I'd go about that. I never understood why the Mystic Knight had White Magic either, since he is clearly what the Dark Knight in future games is based upon and in the remakes the class is called Dark Knight with the appropriate Soul Eater command.

Quick question... do these texts like Advanced! Sure Kill, Do they appear in-game at all?
Quote
I guess I'll take a look at this again when I feel a little more fresh about hacking and have more knowledge to do something bigger. But who knows when that will be with real life being a jerk. My biggest worry was to put this somewhere for others so they don't have to waste all the time "researching" again.

Thank you so much for taking your time with this, too.

I am glad to be of help. I am looking forward to trying out your balancing patch. I've always liked FFIII, but felt the original was lacking in certain aspects... I'll see what your vision accomplishes. (No promises I'll play through the whole thing though).

Maeson

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Leaving behind my superior stupidity with the sequences, let's answer the questions:

The list of classes was pretty useful for things like understanding how Base stats where organized, and obviously they are helpful for the growth rates too. Usabilty groups use this too, as each 3 bytes represent all the classes, and one bit for each class. it's something I didn't touch yet.

08 is the value used for Fire/Ice/Sleep, Black Magic of Level 1. Curiously enough, I just remembered that putting a value of 06 on a weapon, and using it to cast magic, it will hurt himself/herself, just like trying to use a spell normally. Not important but curious.

About the text, Advance shows up when you change between front and back row.

Sure Kill is something I don't remember at all. Kill uses Obliterate, Death uses Stopped Breathing, the Break Spells don't have that either, the Summon Spells use the name of the effect (Like Rend, or Atom Edge)...

I don't recognize it.

About my patch, i'm kind of nervous of what people think about it. I'm not an expert at all, and most changes are based on what I felt playing through it all these years, but basing everything on a personal opinion can be bad.

At least you can play pretty much with any class or group that you want, and give some classes more uses (Like combining the Viking and the Bard Cheer commands to increase the party's attack rather fast). In fact you can feel a big jump in the game once you restore the world, much stronger equipment appears and enemies get stronger soon after that, which I like, it feels kind of nice compared to the "Lite RPG" feeling of the first part around the floating continent, which has it's own charm too.

I myself have beaten this hack with Geomancer, Bard, Scholar and White Mage without grinding for example, and while some of the final bosses were pretty tough it was fun to actually be using something different for a change.

We'll see. Although I can always try to improve what feels lacking.

At the very least i'm happy too see it works with the original japanese, the "normal translation" and the "expanded translation" without problems (Although I haven't completed the game with this version, i've spent some hours with it).
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 12:55:08 PM by Maeson »

Maeson

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Sorry for the double post, but I want to inform that i've encountered the offset of the Base Magic Point tables, it has some few empty sets that can be used and the glitched ones seem to be usable if you put "normal" values.

 I also want to say that I think I understand how the Usability indexes work.

3FFFFF, if we change it to binary, becomes 0011 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111

Then I thought "Okay, it's the first group of bytes, it must mean that is the All the Classes value". I went with the second:

200004, becomes 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100

Here I got stuck. The first two 00 are always 00, so it means that the third onwards are the classes, yet "200004" is the "Only Monk" value, yet it's taking the first slot, which should be for either Onion Kid or Fighter...

Then I realized (or better yet, my brain wanted to work) that the class order is reversed.

So It means the order is, from left to right

00-> Ninja, Sage, Summoner, Shaman, Warlock, Bard, Conjurer, M.Knight, Black Belt, Viking, Dragoon, Geomancer, Scholar, Thief, Knight, Hunter, Red Mage, Black Mage, White Mage, Monk, Fighter and Onion Kid.

The third number is 1 because is the Ninja, and he's always there for equipment as he can have any item on!

I'll wrote all this to the hacking notes soon. With this I can make my own "usability groups", which can offer a very nice starting point for giving classes some magic to work with. Although if I start to give magic to everybody some classes will lose the abilty to run or defend...

The interesting part for me, at least is that, maybe there's info on who's 3F (The Unknown spells' usability value) for... As monsters don't use an index (All of them is 00). The plot thickens!

Still, to create new spells is a different matter.

I think if I was able to change an item type (Let's say, from usable item like "Earth Drum" to a Magic type like Fire2) and make it point to an offset that could be used as magic, maybe is possible. But that's too advanced for me at this point.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 12:49:15 PM by Maeson »

Jorgur

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Re: Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2015, 07:56:39 PM »
Welcome to Slick Productions!

I read about your hack on RHDN. Although overall improvement hacks aren't really my thing, it seems to be an impressive creation.

You probably know more about FF3 than anyone else around here. I would love to see more FF3 hacking documentation, but I fear without proper distribution your hacking notes will fall into obscurity in an ocean of threads (see the FF4 section).

I had a similar project back in 2008 when I decided to hack FF5. What I ended up doing was write a set of documents in .txt format and upload them to the old site. However, these days we have more modern tools at our disposal, such as the Slick Wiki. It is still quite new and could use some more features but it is an excellent tool for writing hacking docs. There are no guidelines or rules as of now, so you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck with your project! I hope you will stay around.  :happy:

Grimoire LD

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Re: Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2015, 12:04:19 AM »
Sorry for the double post, but I want to inform that i've encountered the offset of the Base Magic Point tables, it has some few empty sets that can be used and the glitched ones seem to be usable if you put "normal" values.

 I also want to say that I think I understand how the Usability indexes work.

3FFFFF, if we change it to binary, becomes 0011 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111

Then I thought "Okay, it's the first group of bytes, it must mean that is the All the Classes value". I went with the second:

200004, becomes 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100

Here I got stuck. The first two 00 are always 00, so it means that the third onwards are the classes, yet "200004" is the "Only Monk" value, yet it's taking the first slot, which should be for either Onion Kid or Fighter...

Then I realized (or better yet, my brain wanted to work) that the class order is reversed.

So It means the order is, from left to right

00-> Ninja, Sage, Summoner, Shaman, Warlock, Bard, Conjurer, M.Knight, Black Belt, Viking, Dragoon, Geomancer, Scholar, Thief, Knight, Hunter, Red Mage, Black Mage, White Mage, Monk, Fighter and Onion Kid.

The third number is 1 because is the Ninja, and he's always there for equipment as he can have any item on!

I'll wrote all this to the hacking notes soon. With this I can make my own "usability groups", which can offer a very nice starting point for giving classes some magic to work with. Although if I start to give magic to everybody some classes will lose the abilty to run or defend...

The interesting part for me, at least is that, maybe there's info on who's 3F (The Unknown spells' usability value) for... As monsters don't use an index (All of them is 00). The plot thickens!

Still, to create new spells is a different matter.

I think if I was able to change an item type (Let's say, from usable item like "Earth Drum" to a Magic type like Fire2) and make it point to an offset that could be used as magic, maybe is possible. But that's too advanced for me at this point.

Ah you figured it out, great! Yes, if you know how Items are called you might be able to link the items to the unused spell pointers. I imagine hacking them into a spellset would probably take a fair amount of ASM Work, though now that I think on it... I wonder if it was originally like FFI. In FFI there were Four Spells but only 3 slots, this would correspond pretty well to that idea (and would make sense of that odd tracking label they have for targeting) But this idea becomes muddled since there's only one unused spell slot for each spell level, instead of 2 as one would imagine in this case.



Maeson

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Re: Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2015, 02:07:49 AM »
Welcome to Slick Productions!

I read about your hack on RHDN. Although overall improvement hacks aren't really my thing, it seems to be an impressive creation.

You probably know more about FF3 than anyone else around here. I would love to see more FF3 hacking documentation, but I fear without proper distribution your hacking notes will fall into obscurity in an ocean of threads (see the FF4 section).

I had a similar project back in 2008 when I decided to hack FF5. What I ended up doing was write a set of documents in .txt format and upload them to the old site. However, these days we have more modern tools at our disposal, such as the Slick Wiki. It is still quite new and could use some more features but it is an excellent tool for writing hacking docs. There are no guidelines or rules as of now, so you can do pretty much whatever you want.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck with your project! I hope you will stay around.  :happy:

Oh, then when I have more info, I'll try to add it there, as my intention was exactly that.

Yesterday I even met who did the first research and put  pointers and some info in Data Crystal, which helped me figuring out things, a user called Kea in the RHDN forums.

And thank you!

Ah you figured it out, great! Yes, if you know how Items are called you might be able to link the items to the unused spell pointers. I imagine hacking them into a spellset would probably take a fair amount of ASM Work, though now that I think on it... I wonder if it was originally like FFI. In FFI there were Four Spells but only 3 slots, this would correspond pretty well to that idea (and would make sense of that odd tracking label they have for targeting) But this idea becomes muddled since there's only one unused spell slot for each spell level, instead of 2 as one would imagine in this case.

Well, I don't know much of ASM, so that get's kind of hard... But well see in the future. For now what I can do is transform some spells into others which can fit with other classes (Like, I don't know, change Kill based spells into Dark Spells and give them to the M. Knight, for example).

Shinryuu

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Re: Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 06:09:28 AM »
Hi all, that's some great work on FF3 you've made here, many thanks for these useful informations. Recently, I've also collected some data on FF3 and thought I'd share it here, since this is most probably the best place to do it. Some of the stuff in my documentation may be already covered by you or elsewhere, but I hope you'll find it helpful nonetheless. Here it is:

http://speedy.sh/jDscd/FF3-Data.doc

Grimoire LD

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Re: Hi, I wanted to share a few FF3 (Famicom) hacking notes that I made.
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2015, 11:09:00 AM »
Thank you for sharing those notes Shinryuu, it does clarify some things and makes it crystal clear the similarities and the differences between FFIII and IV's enemy stat setup. One thing which is the same from the two games are the attack/defense/magic defense tables (referred to in notes as indices) FFIV has a few more selections though along with the capability of expanding an individual monster record to 20 bytes in total and a minimum of ten (FFIII sort of went halfway)