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Pinkpuff

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2008, 12:01:42 PM »
I remember contacting the guy once to complementing his hack and I got a response. The e-mail addy is in his readme for his hacks IIRC.. and he does have a website too...

Yeah, that's where I got the email and it bounced... and the only website I could find for him didn't have any contact info on it.

Well, you did make one elemental based, so it's not out of the question... well, making them do something than do nothing is always a preferable thing (heck, making either deal some damage wouldn't be out of the question either...

Indeed. Maybe they could be time-elemental instant death spells... warp could be single target while exit could be group target...

Reply to spoiler section in spoiler section:

[spoiler]
Hel4 could possibly be the most overpowered thing ever...

You might be right. Like I said, I haven't really done much testing at that level but I do see the potential for brokenness with that one.

I'm not sure if this makes much of a difference but I made a mistake in the PM I sent you. HEL4 cannot be used outside of battle...

Also, I don't see how much different that a higher level Inv4 does than a slightly lower leveled Inv3... it would endorse the Ninja a bit more than the Time Mage. Lok3 and Lok4 doesn't have the same issue that I can see...

Yeah... to be honest the primary motivations for making Inv4 were mostly to do with consistency... and the fact that I couldn't really think of any other useful effects to give to white-time. The curve of how much evade  you get from Invs is not as steep as the curve of how much evade Lock takes away because Lock spells are subject to magic defense and could miss whereas Invs is not and hence always works.

The same could be said for Fst2 (shouldn't you be using Haste or "Hst" instead of the old FF1 spelling?.. then again name nostalgia is creeping up on me)... the Time Mage seems to be let down further (unless the Masamune is left intact).. much more than the Black Mage to an extent...

I think you're right about the naming thing. Since I went back on most of the other names (flare, holy, death, etc) I probably should for consistency's sake use haste instead of fast.

The other part I'm not quite sure what you're saying... do you think Fst2 is underpowered?
[/spoiler]
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2008, 02:05:29 PM »
Reply to spoiler section in spoiler section:

[spoiler]
Hel4 could possibly be the most overpowered thing ever...

You might be right. Like I said, I haven't really done much testing at that level but I do see the potential for brokenness with that one.

I'm not sure if this makes much of a difference but I made a mistake in the PM I sent you. HEL4 cannot be used outside of battle...

It's more broken in battle than outside of battle because of use and repetition (then again, I would've normally whined about it.. I did think about it for a bit though). For monsters to use it though, that would be annoying but at least that's counterable...

Quote
Also, I don't see how much different that a higher level Inv4 does than a slightly lower leveled Inv3... it would endorse the Ninja a bit more than the Time Mage. Lok3 and Lok4 doesn't have the same issue that I can see...

Yeah... to be honest the primary motivations for making Inv4 were mostly to do with consistency... and the fact that I couldn't really think of any other useful effects to give to white-time. The curve of how much evade  you get from Invs is not as steep as the curve of how much evade Lock takes away because Lock spells are subject to magic defense and could miss whereas Invs is not and hence always works.

I thought a lot of the original spells were defined moreso on hit rate.. like Slow vs Slo2 and Slep vs Slp2, etc.

Quote
The same could be said for Fst2 (shouldn't you be using Haste or "Hst" instead of the old FF1 spelling?.. then again name nostalgia is creeping up on me)... the Time Mage seems to be let down further (unless the Masamune is left intact).. much more than the Black Mage to an extent...

I think you're right about the naming thing. Since I went back on most of the other names (flare, holy, death, etc) I probably should for consistency's sake use haste instead of fast.

The other part I'm not quite sure what you're saying... do you think Fst2 is underpowered?

Fst2 is built to a non-fighting character... the Black Mage benefits a little more, and the Staff weapon for mages seems to be the crap of the weapons (I haven't gotten far enough, but that's my observation). Even the White Mage gets da' hammer and doesn't even get this spell. Maybe it's just me, but even the easily solo targetable Fast is worth more than Fst2. The only way of balancing this aka neutering Fast is by making it self targeted so that the Time Mage is a little more important.. although I think you need to give the Time Mage an alternate weapon to play with as a bonus. Also.. you could make 3 versions of this spell... a level 6 version that is targetable.

Also, I think the Dark Knight is a bit superior to the Paladin. The Paladin's Holy weapons are probably going to benefit more towards the end, but the spell set will never beat the Dark Knight simply due to the existance of Fast. Perhaps upping one more White level could balance that out...
[/spoiler]
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Pinkpuff

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2008, 03:07:30 PM »
[spoiler]
It's more broken in battle than outside of battle because of use and repetition (then again, I would've normally whined about it.. I did think about it for a bit though). For monsters to use it though, that would be annoying but at least that's counterable...

Ok well I think by the time you can afford to repeatedly cast L8 spells your party will probably be strong enough that you won't need to be repeatedly casting HEL4.

No monsters can can cast it (or Cur4).

I thought a lot of the original spells were defined moreso on hit rate.. like Slow vs Slo2 and Slep vs Slp2, etc.

Sure. And Lock is the same way. The higher level Lock spells both give higher evade penalties and work more often (higher hit rate). However even Lok4 can be evaded, but all the Invs spells always work.

Fst2 is built to a non-fighting character... the Black Mage benefits a little more, and the Staff weapon for mages seems to be the crap of the weapons (I haven't gotten far enough, but that's my observation). Even the White Mage gets da' hammer and doesn't even get this spell. Maybe it's just me, but even the easily solo targetable Fast is worth more than Fst2. The only way of balancing this aka neutering Fast is by making it self targeted so that the Time Mage is a little more important.. although I think you need to give the Time Mage an alternate weapon to play with as a bonus. Also.. you could make 3 versions of this spell... a level 6 version that is targetable.

Err... Fst2 works on the whole party. I assume you wouldn't make a party out of all time mages and black mages, and even if you do, well, I don't mind there being some spells that are junk for that specific kind of party. However, you will usually have more than one fighting character. The idea is that, say in a boss fight, instead of wasting four turns Fast-ing everyone you simply go Fst2!! In a party like Monk, Viking, Knight, Time Mage, that spell would be the bomb!

Now I can certainly see an argument that maybe it should be lower level but to say that "Fast is worth more than Fst2" when it is clearly strictly worse in every way makes no sense...

Also, yes the staff is intentionally the crap of the weapons.

Also, I think the Dark Knight is a bit superior to the Paladin. The Paladin's Holy weapons are probably going to benefit more towards the end, but the spell set will never beat the Dark Knight simply due to the existance of Fast. Perhaps upping one more White level could balance that out...

I dunno, I find the ability to cure and bring characters back to life to be pretty good... let alone the sheer number of undeads in this game makes Harm and Holy-elemental weapons the bees knees. The Paladin also gets more HP... if anything I'd be more worried about the opposite situation.

[/spoiler]
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2008, 03:26:10 PM »
[spoiler]
Quote
It's more broken in battle than outside of battle because of use and repetition (then again, I would've normally whined about it.. I did think about it for a bit though). For monsters to use it though, that would be annoying but at least that's counterable...

Ok well I think by the time you can afford to repeatedly cast L8 spells your party will probably be strong enough that you won't need to be repeatedly casting HEL4.

Well, Cur4 isn't joined at the hip with Hel4, which is why disabling this outside of battle doesn't really impact it that much IMO.

Quote
No monsters can can cast it (or Cur4).

If you add it to a monster's battle script, it would be a lot more interesting...

Quote
I thought a lot of the original spells were defined moreso on hit rate.. like Slow vs Slo2 and Slep vs Slp2, etc.

Sure. And Lock is the same way. The higher level Lock spells both give higher evade penalties and work more often (higher hit rate). However even Lok4 can be evaded, but all the Invs spells always work.

Yea.. but the fasincination with the spell since FF:DOS is to neuter high evasion monsters.. although I don't remember a lot in the original to begin with... so meh.

Quote
Fst2 is built to a non-fighting character... the Black Mage benefits a little more, and the Staff weapon for mages seems to be the crap of the weapons (I haven't gotten far enough, but that's my observation). Even the White Mage gets da' hammer and doesn't even get this spell. Maybe it's just me, but even the easily solo targetable Fast is worth more than Fst2. The only way of balancing this aka neutering Fast is by making it self targeted so that the Time Mage is a little more important.. although I think you need to give the Time Mage an alternate weapon to play with as a bonus. Also.. you could make 3 versions of this spell... a level 6 version that is targetable.

Err... Fst2 works on the whole party. I assume you wouldn't make a party out of all time mages and black mages, and even if you do, well, I don't mind there being some spells that are junk for that specific kind of party. However, you will usually have more than one fighting character. The idea is that, say in a boss fight, instead of wasting four turns Fast-ing everyone you simply go Fst2!! In a party like Monk, Viking, Knight, Time Mage, that spell would be the bomb!

Now I can certainly see an argument that maybe it should be lower level but to say that "Fast is worth more than Fst2" when it is clearly strictly worse in every way makes no sense...

Let me put it this way. What actually distinguishes the physical power of the Time Mage and the Sage? Absolutely nothing as far as I can tell (I could be wrong, I don't know what the Sage's starting stats are). However, the Sage has uber heal+attack magic at its disposal. The Time Mage is not intended to be that I presume, but White/Black Mage is impacted more by Fast than the Time Mage... that makes no sense (The Time Mage should be on par with the White+Black Mages in terms of physical strength+weapon options). In addition, if you use a dual Dark Knight/Ninja combo (or one of each), the impact of the Time Mage is lessened a tad... not that it's a detriment, but Fst2 isn't that sexy an option...

Quote
Also, yes the staff is intentionally the crap of the weapons.

As I suspected...

Quote
Also, I think the Dark Knight is a bit superior to the Paladin. The Paladin's Holy weapons are probably going to benefit more towards the end, but the spell set will never beat the Dark Knight simply due to the existance of Fast. Perhaps upping one more White level could balance that out...

I dunno, I find the ability to cure and bring characters back to life to be pretty good... let alone the sheer number of undeads in this game makes Harm and Holy-elemental weapons the bees knees. The Paladin also gets more HP... if anything I'd be more worried about the opposite situation.

I'll see, maybe I'm seeing this wrong. I just know that the original Knight (the upgraded Fighter) had enough irrelevent magic to be useless in that department. Completing the Anti-elemental set plus Pure would've been perfect (in the original game I mean).. I kinda see the same for the Paladin, but I'll have to see that in playing this.
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 03:47:30 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2008, 05:28:12 PM »
Here's a bug.. apparently Heal has seems to restore everyone's MP.

Just for your info, my run consists of a DK, Ninja, Red Wizard, White Wizard.
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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2008, 07:37:39 PM »
Whoa... ok it never used to do that. I wonder if it has something to do with the House/MP bugfix?
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2008, 07:53:21 PM »
Whoa... ok it never used to do that. I wonder if it has something to do with the House/MP bugfix?

Well, it's doing the healing, but not skipping whatever routine that does the MP healing.
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Lenophis

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2008, 09:05:14 PM »
Here's a bug.. apparently Heal has seems to restore everyone's MP.
As in the potion?

Whoa... ok it never used to do that. I wonder if it has something to do with the House/MP bugfix?
Ugh, it probably is. :bah:

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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2008, 09:16:10 PM »
Here's a bug.. apparently Heal has seems to restore everyone's MP.
As in the potion?

As in the spell.. it seems to affect the whole set/series (Hel2 operates the same).

It may be that this spell is sharing the dialog or execution path the House/Cabin item uses. Normally when casting Heal, it briefly displays character HP screen like when you use a Cure spell.

So, the spell is executing like this (outside of battle):

1) Execute confirmation dialog to heal. (Assuming you agree to it...)
2) Refill everyone's MP and heal using Heal/Hel2/etc. data.
3) Deduct cost of spell from spell list.
4) Refresh screen.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 09:31:05 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2008, 12:59:33 AM »
Before I goto sleep forgetting this, IIRC, Grond also has an RHDN account.
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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2008, 06:39:20 AM »
Ok I updated the patch.

Changes:

*Removed House/MP fix (sorry... it's just that HEAL healing MP is too bad)
*Warp is now a single-target time-elemental instant death effect in battle
*Exit is now a multi-target time-elemental instant death effect in battle
*Soft is now a single-target petrification effect in battle
(The above spells still do the same things outside battle as always)

You should be able to use your same save data from the previous version.
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2008, 01:14:58 PM »
It seems that Heal (the series of spells) is behaving normally now.
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2008, 08:33:21 PM »
Hmm.. the balance is off..

[spoiler]What would compel anyone to use Life2 instead of Harm4? It seems to be a "fill in spell" and doesn't exactly compete that well with Holy either...[/spoiler]

You haven't responded to my other balancing points yet.. mostly regarding the Time Mage vs the other mages...

Edit:

[spoiler]I'm kinda disappointed that the Defender doesn't have a spell attached to it... and I don't quite get why the Flame Sword has no spell, even though the counterpart the Ice Sword has a spell...

The Venom Axe can't get a spell going either.. say Bio or something?...  :hmm:

Also, I have absolutely no idea what the 108Gems "shield" is supposed to protect me from... a hint would've been nice.
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 03:35:53 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2008, 06:05:28 AM »
Hmm.. the balance is off..

[spoiler]
Quote
What would compel anyone to use Life2 instead of Harm4? It seems to be a "fill in spell" and doesn't exactly compete that well with Holy either...

Wow, good point, I can't believe I didn't notice that one... not sure what I can do about it though, the max spell base is only 255 and hrm4 already does 240... I could up it to 255 but I'm not sure that would make much of a difference... any suggestions?
[/spoiler]

You haven't responded to my other balancing points yet.. mostly regarding the Time Mage vs the other mages...

Er... I'm not sure what points you're talking about unless you mean the ones I addressed here: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=369.msg5095#msg5095

Edit: Nevermind, I'm dumb, I found the points you're talking about... I don't have time to address them right now but I will soon.

Edit:

[spoiler]
Quote
I'm kinda disappointed that the Defender doesn't have a spell attached to it... and I don't quite get why the Flame Sword has no spell, even though the counterpart the Ice Sword has a spell...

The Venom Axe can't get a spell going either.. say Bio or something?...  :hmm:

Except for staffs, the only weapons that cast spells are the highest level weapon (the "ultimate" weapon) of each type. The Ice Sword is more of a "counterpart" to the Rune Axe than it is to the Flame Sword... sorry if that disappoints you but I don't really have any intention of changing it. And if I did, they would be casting junkier spells than Bio.

Quote
Also, I have absolutely no idea what the 108Gems "shield" is supposed to protect me from... a hint would've been nice.

Yeah, not a very descriptive name is it? I suppose the same is true for the ProCape and ProRing. Not really sure what to do about that though... I can't exactly name it the "Protection from Dark, Holy, and Earth Necklace"... I could have a character in the game talk about it or something, would that help?
[/spoiler]
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Deathlike2

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Re: (Another) FF1 Hack
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2008, 10:47:22 AM »
[spoiler]
Wow, good point, I can't believe I didn't notice that one... not sure what I can do about it though, the max spell base is only 255 and hrm4 already does 240... I could up it to 255 but I'm not sure that would make much of a difference... any suggestions?
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I have no idea.[/spoiler]

Quote
[spoiler]Yeah, not a very descriptive name is it? I suppose the same is true for the ProCape and ProRing. Not really sure what to do about that though... I can't exactly name it the "Protection from Dark, Holy, and Earth Necklace"... I could have a character in the game talk about it or something, would that help?
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]You already put a guy there saying "those accessories do something special", so yes, of course. Heck, even the Ribbon needs a mention so I can decide on final equipment.  :tongue:[/spoiler]
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