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Phoenix

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FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« on: June 03, 2008, 06:54:50 AM »
There are 11 attack sequences that are changed between FF4j and FF2us. I have the hex data if anyone is interested, but I think it just clutters up the explanation, so ask me if you want to see it. There are 4 normal sequence changes and 7 lunar sequence changes. Here they are:

Normal:
1. Sequence 71: This is the change documented by Deathlike2 in this thread.
2. Sequence AA: The first instance of the Dark Elf says "ME ATTACK YOU!" (brilliant translation work, in my estimation) while performing his fire/lit/ice attack. In FF4j, this is executed with an F1 byte. In FF2us, it's executed with an F2 byte. Not sure what the difference is, but it's there.
3. Sequence E5: During the Asura battle, her Armor casting in FF4j is changed to a Cure4 casting in FF2us.
4. Sequence F1: During the Elements battle in FF4j, Valvalis performs an attack, casts Ray, attacks twice more, then casts Storm. In FF2us, she attacks, casts Ray, attacks, casts Ray, attacks, then casts Storm.

Lunar:
5. Sequence 30: Ogopogo's reflex sequence Pale Dim's attack sequence in FF4j is to attack 5 times in a row and then cast Storm. In FF2us he just attacks 5 times.
6. Sequence 4C: Zeromus' sequence has four small changes. During this sequence, he resets his magic power four times. In FF4j, these values are 0x27, 0x27, 0x31, and 0x27. This is changed to 0x1F, 0x20, 0x24, and 0x20 in FF2us.
7. Sequence 4D: Similar to #6. In FF4j it uses the value of 0x15, in FF2us it's 0x0E.
8. Sequence 4E: Same sequence as #7.
9. Sequence 55: Similar to #6. Values of 0x27, 0x15, and 0x27 are changed to 0x1F, 0x0E, and 0x20.
10. Sequence 58: Similar to #6. Value of 0x28 is changed to 0x24.
11. Sequence 59: I'm pretty sure this isn't used. It's blank in FF4j, and in FF2us it's just 26 (which would cast Virus). The last value of sequence 58 is 26, so I'm pretty sure it's just a remnant from reducing the sequences at some point.

So, there you have it -- all the changes between FF4j and FF2us. I did this off the hex data, so I might have made some mistakes. If any of this isn't reflected in gameplay, let me know.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 06:38:02 PM by Phoenix »
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bond697

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2008, 01:18:01 PM »
so, i finally got to check the place out since very early this morning, and i just wanted to say thank you, phoenix, for taking the time to give me all that instruction in that other topic.  also, i'd love to see the hex data behind this, if you don't mind.  or is this data in those 3 text files that you left for me in the other topic?
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 01:54:07 PM »
Quote from: Phoenix on June 03, 2008, 06:54:50 AM
2. Sequence AA: The first instance of the Dark Elf says "ME ATTACK YOU!" (brilliant translation work, in my estimation) while performing his fire/lit/ice attack. In FF4j, this is executed with an F1 byte. In FF2us, it's executed with an F2 byte. Not sure what the difference is, but it's there.

Needs some examples of them in action for a better representation of behavior.

Quote
3. Sequence E5: During the Asura battle, her Armor casting in FF4j is changed to a Cure4 casting in FF2us.

That's well known, given that the summon's behavior is different.

Quote
4. Sequence F1: During the Elements battle in FF4j, Valvalis performs an attack, casts Ray, attacks twice more, then casts Storm. In FF2us, she attacks, casts Ray, attacks, casts Ray, attacks, then casts Storm.

It's hard to tell which is more threatening.. the latter technically has more threatening power since physical attacks are usually irrelevent prior to Storm... but then again, Storm is delayed by one more attack.

Quote
Lunar:
5. Sequence 30: Ogopogo's reflex sequence in FF4j is to attack 5 times in a row and then cast Storm. In FF2us he just attacks 5 times.

I'm not sure if the sequence # is correct (I think a bunch of them are wrong, even though I know what the monster's sequence is), but that's the Pale Dim's attack sequence, not Ogopogo. The Ogopogo has a barrage of maxHP based attacks and counters, with an evil Weak when using a Lightning elemental.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 02:15:26 PM by Deathlike2 »
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bond697

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2008, 02:17:24 PM »
hey, phoenix and deathlike, i was thinking, would it be helpful if there was a website containing all the the data about ff2/4, etc available so far, but in an orderly fashion? i only ask because i know i don't have it all, but i've been compiling stuff from here on a thorough basis, and i have all the docs and utilities and spreadsheets all organized, etc. plus, i've been taking info out of topics on this board and organizing it into text files.

would something like that be useful as a companion to this board? it wouldn't take me long to do, as i already have webspace. i can give you guys(and dkk, jce, paladin, etc) the user/pass, and you could add stuff also. it would be like a "reference book" for ff2/4, but as a website.

edit: and obviously with everyone getting proper credit.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 03:40:02 PM by bond697 »
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 03:34:29 PM »
I'm indifferent either way on this.
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Dragonsbrethren

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 03:45:54 PM »
I agree that there should be a "hard" copy of this information somewhere but I'm thinking a big document like JCE's rather than a website. A website, even with the nicest CMS, is too much of a pain to keep up-to-date.

That said, anyone want to dig through every page of the forum and compile all the hacking information into one big document?
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2008, 03:55:56 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on June 03, 2008, 03:45:54 PM
I agree that there should be a "hard" copy of this information somewhere but I'm thinking a big document like JCE's rather than a website. A website, even with the nicest CMS, is too much of a pain to keep up-to-date.

You meant CSS. I'm still trying to finish some loose ends on my magic doc, and will eventually have to expand that to cover item spells and weapon based item spells... and probably include parts of the magic algo ( :whoa:) and the status documentation.

Quote
That said, anyone want to dig through every page of the forum and compile all the hacking information into one big document?

It will take a fucking boatload of time, but we might as well take it slow.
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bond697

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2008, 03:56:59 PM »
Quote from: Dragonsbrethren on June 03, 2008, 03:45:54 PM

That said, anyone want to dig through every page of the forum and compile all the hacking information into one big document?

that's what i've been doing for ff2/4. i want to sit down and make some serious headway tonight on it.

well, if it's all the same, i think i'm gonna go ahead and make a small site for myself to use, and anyone else who wants to check it out can.  it's not gonna be pretty, just functional.
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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 04:02:35 PM »
Quote from: Deathlike2 on June 03, 2008, 03:55:56 PM
You meant CSS.

No, I meant WCMS, apparently. :wink:
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Phoenix

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2008, 05:27:03 PM »
In regards to the discussion on an informational website versus document, I've been working towards the same thing myself. While working on my hack I've been compiling and editing other documents, and have a large collection of them that works-in-progress. I don't think a single document would work -- I have 52 documents in my FF2us folder, and that doesn't include the scripts I've written to extract or decode information. I think a website is a good idea, but agree that it might be hard to update. A zipped collection of docs would work well, but a list of docs with dates last updated is probably better. You'd still need a site to host them, though, and a way of keeping the dates current.

In the end, it doesn't matter to me. I just want to information to be publicly available. Once I have finished (or mostly finished) my documents, I'll put them on whatever site wants them. I planned on putting them on Data Crystal, but I'll put them on yours too, bond697. It sounds like you're organizing things well. Let us know the address once you've set it up.
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bond697

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2008, 05:49:58 PM »
thanks, i definitely will, i'd love to make your docs available.  i've been going thread by thread at this point compiling info, and your docs would make a HUGE addition to my stuff. i have pretty much everything else that's available(this includes documents you posted here for me, spreadsheets that entroper and paladin posted, etc etc.)

honestly, it's just gonna be for ff2/4, so i'm gonna make it static, not a dynamic website. 1. because it's for 1 game 2. because i don't know all that much dynamic HTML/xml/javascript, etc :) and 3. because it won't be that big of a project either way.
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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2008, 05:51:18 PM »
bond697, here's the hex data. The first lines are FF4j. The second lines are FF2us.

Code: [Select]
attack sequences
71: 90 FE 81               FF
    90 FE 81 *FE 90 FE 94* FF
AA: E1 FE E1 FE E1 FE *F2* 09 FD 4E FB 54 FB 51 FC FE 57 FE F1 0A F1 0B F1 0C AE FF
    E1 FE E1 FE E1 FE *F1* 09 FD 4E FB 54 FB 51 FC FE 57 FE F1 0A F1 0B F1 0C AE FF
E5: F0 36 F9 16 *05* F4 81 FF
    F0 36 F9 16 *11* F4 81 FF
F1: C0 FE 69 FE C0 FE         C0 FE 80 FF
    C0 FE 69 FE C0 FE *69 FE* C0 FE 80 FF

lunar sequences
30: C0 FE C0 FE C0 FE C0 FE C0 *FE 80* FF
    C0 FE C0 FE C0 FE C0 FE C0         FF
4C: E1 FE BB FE EE *27* 87 FE 7D F1 75 FE E1 FE BB FE EE *27* 87 FE EE *31* F9 28 26 FE 7D F1 75 FE E1 FE BB FE EE *27* 87 FE 7D F1 75 FF
    E1 FE BB FE EE *1F* 87 FE 7D F1 75 FE E1 FE BB FE EE *20* 87 FE EE *24* F9 28 26 FE 7D F1 75 FE E1 FE BB FE EE *20* 87 FE 7D F1 75 FF
4D: EE *15* 30 FF
    EE *0E* 30 FF
4E: EE *15* 30 FF
    EE *0E* 30 FF
55: E1 FE BB FE EE *27* 87 FE 7D F1 75 FE EE *15* 30 FE E1 FE E1 FE BB FE EE *27* 87 FF
    E1 FE BB FE EE *1F* 87 FE 7D F1 75 FE EE *0E* 30 FE E1 FE E1 FE BB FE EE *20* 87 FF
58: EE *28* F9 28 26 FF
    EE *24* F9 28 26 FF
59:      FF
    *26* FF

attack groups
B5: 46 BE *51 F6* 48 C2 06 C1 1A C0 1B C0 1C C0 1D C0 1E C0 FF
    46 BE         48 C2 06 C1 1A C0 1B C0 1C C0 1D C0 1E C0 FF
Deathlike, I think you're thinking of the enemy's attack group number, not the sequence number. Ogopogo's reflex group number is ED. This points to a 2-byte set with condition 00 and attack sequence 30 (the one listed above). That being said, I'm pretty sure Ogopogo's attack group and reflex group numbers are switched. His attack sequence has conditions normally found in reflex sequences (i.e. the lightning response, and call spell response), while his reflex sequence, as you can see above, is simply attacking. It think it's a mistake in programming. In any case, it's still one of the changes between FF4j and FF2us.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2008, 06:05:49 PM »
The internal data may have it reversed somehow for monsters on the moon (to be clever I guess?... as the game has to make this distinction somehow).

Storm is never used by the Ogopogo (I'd have to double check FF4ET, but I think there's a lot more evil changes there). The monster that uses such a sequence is the Pale Dim.

Let me cite what the battle script says from the editor...

Pale Dim, FF2

Battle script 0xEE
Code: [Select]
Always
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Fight

Pale Dim, FF4

Battle script 0xEE
Code: [Select]
Always
    うくろまほ
    (End of Turn)
    うくろまほ
    (End of Turn)
    うくろまほ
    (End of Turn)
    うくろまほ
    (End of Turn)
    うくろまほ
    (End of Turn)
    Cast ミ-ルスト-ム ($80)

The only difference between the scripts is that Storm is used by the FF4 Pale Dim. The Ogopogo has a different script altogether, and I'll cite that if needed.
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Phoenix

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2008, 06:36:31 PM »
Figured out what it was: the lines at end of my enemy attack group document were off by a line. So, the sequences aren't reversed, and sequence 30 is for Pale Dim, not Ogopogo. I've attached a revised version of the document to this thread and my other post with the documents, and I'll go back and edit the original post. Thanks for pointing it out.

The reason was (at least I believe) sequence E7 is just "00 FF", which is only a condition with no sequence after it. When I parsed the data originally, I must have parsed 00 FF as one of the 2-byte sets, offsetting the data by a line. However, I'm not positive that this is right, since that would make this the only sequence that's buggy. I haven't tested it, but I did check and I don't think any enemy uses sequence E7. Anyway, there's the explanation. This also probably through the other lunar sequences off a line, but since they all deal with Zeromus, I didn't go back and check them.
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Deathlike2

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Re: FF4j and FF2us Attack Sequence Differences
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2008, 07:00:39 PM »
The more fun battle scripts are in FF4ET, you would love those better..

Battle Script 0xEE
Code: [Select]
Always
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Cast SnowStrm ($9C)
    (End of Turn)
    Cast Weak ($72)

Counter Script 0xEF
Code: [Select]
If Attacked by Character
    Cast low
If Casted on by Character with Fire
    Cast FlameDgn ($A4)
If Casted on by Character with Ice
    Cast SnowStrm ($9C)
If Casted on by Character with Lightning
    Cast Lt.Flash ($98)

The battle script is evil.. the counter script is a tad different as a Paralysis attack is a counter instead of a pathetic monster Quake.
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