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Print Page - Random Lesser Known Facts
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Library of the Ancients => Final Fantasy IV Research & Development => Topic started by: Deathlike2 on March 07, 2008, 11:21:17 PM
Title: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 07, 2008, 11:21:17 PM
I might as well keep a thread that details random details most people don't know and those that look through the number of threads here may have missed or probably don't want to read (I mean, seriously, I have lots of say). I guess this post can serve as something useful that many don't know this info.
So... let's see:
In the Elementals battle, it is not as known that Rubicante has the Mage attribute.
Yang's Endure/Gird command is powered by Spirit.
Yang's Endure command (FF4 only) can always fail while he's Silenced.
When enemies use beneficial spells on you, they are factored against your magic evade, which is why they don't hit. :lame:
The Screamer (FF2US name) monster has two enemy type/race attributes. This is how I found out that the enemy type multiplier doesn't stack.
Most Spirits are weak vs Holy. The Weeper (FF2US name) monster is the only type that is not weak vs Holy.
Scarmaglione (aka Milon Z in FF2US) is weak vs Holy (and Fire and Aerial attacks)... he absorbs Holy in the Elementals battle. He's the only undead that absorbs Holy in the game. D. Bone (FF2US Name) is the only undead that isn't weak vs Holy AFAIK.
Aerial elemental is treated like the all the other elementals in the damage algo. This sucks because I found out that Kain's Blizzard Spear did effectively the same damage than Cecil's Icebrand Sword... which also means Rosa with her lame Ice arrows look worse than they should.
When a target is weak and absorb the same elemental... it implies the following:
1) When magic is cast on the target, the target is healed. Absorb is prioritized in this instance.
2) When a physical matching elemental attack is made on the target, the target will take damage as if it were weak. Elemental weakness is prioritized in this instance.
The Dark Elf is not the best example, but if you had Holy accessible at that point in time, you would see how it would heal this target, while being massively hurt by the Legend Sword (those types of weapons use the Holy element)
Who's dumb idea was it to have Tellah speak in the Dark Elf's battle? He is the first to die in that tri-elemental sequence of attacks. The only way to make his speech sound legitimate is to cast Reflect/Wall on Tellah. I don't know why he was even scripted to talk normally.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on March 09, 2008, 05:12:08 AM
Cagnazzo's turtle and shell forms are weak against ice, his tsunami form is weak against lightning. This was made much more obvious in FF4 DS where ice heals his tsunami form and lightning doesn't work nearly as good on his other forms.
Three related to Rubicante:
1. The Rubicante Edge fights solo is the same one the party fights, unlike the Golbez Tellah fights or the Zeromus Golbez and FuSoYa fight.
2. Rubicante counters any summon magic with Ice-2 on himself, not just Shiva.
3. Rubicante has a rarely seen ending message, to get it you need to get him under 1000 HP and have your next attack do less than that.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 09, 2008, 05:18:30 AM
3. Rubicante has a rarely seen ending message, to get it you need to get him under 1000 HP and have your next attack do less than that.
Sometimes, I want to smack the programmers over the head for just doing that.
That was a big WTF for me. I've played this game, I don't know, 15 times? Never seen this.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on March 09, 2008, 05:56:49 AM
I first saw it about five years ago. Considering the fact that I've been playing this game since it was released...
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 09, 2008, 05:58:10 AM
This game has many more unsolved mysteries than... pretty much more than any other FF game I've completed.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on March 09, 2008, 06:22:55 AM
Yeah, so many you could easily start a website documenting them - one of the plans I had but slowly forgot about. I guess the forum will be good enough. :cycle:
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: JCE3000GT on March 09, 2008, 05:02:24 PM
Don't forget the bad coding...the worst coding ever.
I highly, highly doubt that, the game is very playable. Just download any random freeware PC game, chances are you'll encounter far worse coding than anything you'd see in FF4. :tongue:
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on March 15, 2008, 01:15:18 PM
Why attack with Ice? Just burn the bastard: (http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/719/finalfantasyivj00032yr1.th.png) (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=finalfantasyivj00032yr1.png)
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Cleteromagos on April 28, 2008, 02:12:30 AM
Quote
Don't forget the bad coding...the worst coding ever.
FF1’s is likely worse, since it seriously impacts gameplay. Spells that just plain have no function, Int. having no bearing on spell damage …
Heh. Remember the portrayal of those programmers in the developers’ room?
Anyway, I take it this is Rubicante’s line being referred to?
Quote from: http://s-endo.skr.jp/ff4monmes.txt
143(8F): ルビカンテ「ここは わたしのまけだ だが
“This marks my defeat — and yet …”
Seems pointless. Is there another one following it? (Battle text is apparently out of order in the ROM — though the staff’s comments are amusing.) Does he start using another attack at this point, at the very least?
I guess either something was to be made of this and it was forgotten, or a battle programmer mistakenly made it an extreme rarity for the dialogue to be called.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on April 28, 2008, 09:15:03 AM
It requires low HP (near death for Rubicante) and a physical attack for that "counter reaction".
It's also a self-suicide moment to boot.
I do believe there was one more line for it though...
Odin (not the Lunar version) also has one as well, but it's only for a random lightning attack.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Cleteromagos on April 29, 2008, 03:20:27 AM
Aha, so the battle was meant to end with dialogue, but … doesn’t the overwhelming majority of the time. Could you tell me which box is called after, to fulfil my curiosity? :D
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on April 29, 2008, 08:51:31 AM
8F, 6A, 5 - That's the dialog order (in hex).
According to FF2's (SNES) dialog...
Rubicant: I lost now But I shall return! Good luck...
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Cleteromagos on April 30, 2008, 06:15:56 AM
143(8F): ルビカンテ「ここは わたしのまけだ だが Rubicante: My defeat and end are both here marked. Regardless …
106(6A): 「いつのひか かならず よみがえる … on another day, I shall stand before you once more!
005(05): 「さらば Know this, until next we meet.
It’s always nice when Moriyama’s translation is shown to have its competent excerpts. I hope the DS localisation team give Rubicante the right tone in their translation. :finger:
Quote from: Deathlike
Who's dumb idea was it to have Tellah speak in the Dark Elf's battle? He is the first to die in that tri-elemental sequence of attacks. The only way to make his speech sound legitimate is to cast Reflect/Wall on Tellah. I don't know why he was even scripted to talk normally.
You mean this?
012(0C): テラ「くっそー‥‥ Tella: Cu—curses …
Seeing as the status induced in FFIV at 0 HP is not really “dead” or “swoon” (pah!) but actually “Unfit For Battle”, I hardly find it surprising that Tella is able to express a breath’s worth of distaste for his situation as he tastes Crystal Room floor polish. :wink: Unless there’s some other line I’m not remembering that’s also thrown in there?
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on May 06, 2008, 06:51:51 PM
Bah, the lightning message seems to be lightning and HP triggered (like 1/16 or 1/8 of the remaining HP is left).
Edit: Hmmm, it is utter randomness when lightning randomly kills Odin...
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Phoenix on June 03, 2008, 02:07:00 AM
Quote
2. Rubicante counters any summon magic with Ice-2 on himself, not just Shiva.
Turns out this is only in FF4j, and removed from FF2us. I wondered why I didn't know about this. It's the only enemy attack sequence group change there is between the two versions. There are a couple other attack script changes, I'll post on those once I document them all. This one was unique, though.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on June 03, 2008, 02:17:29 AM
2. Rubicante counters any summon magic with Ice-2 on himself, not just Shiva.
Turns out this is only in FF4j, and removed from FF2us. I wondered why I didn't know about this. It's the only enemy attack sequence group change there is between the two versions. There are a couple other attack script changes, I'll post on those once I document them all. This one was unique, though.
That's pretty funny when he's uncloaked.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 04, 2008, 05:44:06 PM
:bump:
One I posted way back on JCE's forum, the little "HP" in battle moves based on which slots are occupied:
Priority goes from top to bottom rather than from slot 1 to 5, so most of the time it appears as it does in the first shot because you have a full party.
Also, any button (including the d-pad) can scroll/close a dialogue box except for L and Start. The entire game can be played with the second controller unless you set multiple controllers in battle, in which case you must use the controller you set for each character in battle.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 04, 2008, 06:07:12 PM
Also, any button (including the d-pad) can scroll/close a dialogue box except for R and Start. The entire game can be played with the second controller unless you set multiple controllers in battle, in which case you must use the controller you set for each character in battle.
A fix for the 2nd controller would be nice.
Additionally, a minor hack for the L button to reverse rotate the characters sprites would also be nice.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 04, 2008, 07:09:58 PM
I'm pretty sure it's intentional. Fixed a mistake, I said R but it's L that can't scroll the dialogue box, R works fine.
Another one, if you shift characters around after someone leaves your party, save your game, and resume you can end with the wrong character on the map:
Entering the menu corrects it (as does using the R button) but entering a battle doesn't, you'll still have the wrong sprite after battle.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 26, 2008, 07:49:30 PM
If you press up while at the top of the throw command's item list you can use your weapons' magic just like the normal item menu. :eek:
You cannot reequip this way though, as soon as you select the weapon it switches to targeting mode.
:edit:
This does not apply to the GBA version, you can't press up to get to your equipment.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 26, 2008, 07:59:26 PM
Ah... someone goofed.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on September 29, 2008, 10:53:51 AM
If you're paralyzed and try to run from battle the "Can't run!" message will flash until paralysis wears off. Only tested with one character and a dead party but it probably applies when the entire party is paralyzed too.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 29, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
Well, I made Stop multitargetable (so I could test the whole party).. it seems to be the case anyways... for any status that prevents moving. You probably need only one moving character to be able to execute the running.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 29, 2008, 11:25:25 AM
Statuses that matter for run prevention: Stop, Paralysis, Sleep
Statuses that should've mattered, but aren't: Berserk, Charm
:edit: Note that Berserk's animation only seems to work for 3 "and a half" characters.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on September 30, 2008, 01:46:09 PM
FF4's original DK vs Paladin Cecil seems to have the DK at 4520 HP.. interestingly enough, that would be DK Cecil's HP above level 90....
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on October 14, 2008, 03:42:59 PM
When a user with Black Magic has Toad and Piggy status, they are able to cast both Toad and Piggy in the SNES version. The checks for spell availability seems to be connected to the status, but apparently the obvious exception to the rule (when both statuses are inflicted) was forgotten about.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: odditude on October 14, 2008, 04:19:09 PM
FF4's original DK vs Paladin Cecil seems to have the DK at 4520 HP.. interestingly enough, that would be DK Cecil's HP above level 90....
yang-as-boss and kain-as-boss have absurdly high HP as well... compare as well golbez-as-boss vs. him in the zemus fight. there's usually a massive HP skew towards humans-as-monsters in general... look at the various soldiers in the game.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on October 14, 2008, 04:22:18 PM
FF4's original DK vs Paladin Cecil seems to have the DK at 4520 HP.. interestingly enough, that would be DK Cecil's HP above level 90....
yang-as-boss and kain-as-boss have absurdly high HP as well... compare as well golbez-as-boss vs. him in the zemus fight. there's usually a massive HP skew towards humans-as-monsters in general... look at the various soldiers in the game.
Well, it's a tad different.
Kain meant to kick your ass.
Yang is very beatable, as long as Palom learns Quake to speed up the process.... just mass cast Protect until he tickles you.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 09, 2008, 03:44:51 AM
If Kain had optimal stats, it would require him equipping a Drain Sword/Spear and Jumping on an undead monster to kill himself.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 09, 2008, 06:26:40 AM
The animation for throwing an axe in FF4A was removed. :sad: :lungs: :finger:
:edit: The Pinkpuffs/Flan Princesses only display one "Let's dance" message in the SNES version.. that's not the case in the GBA version (it is displayed as many times as there are Flan Princesses, which is annoying).
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 12, 2008, 01:10:54 PM
Hmm.. this is curious.. equipping the Spoon (with its default stats) seems to not increase attack power at all.. (if you made it normally equippable).
It must probably be connected to the attack power value.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on November 17, 2008, 07:16:29 PM
Bows+Arrows and Harps don't give the critical hit flashes in FF4A. This is probably a change to prevent seizures since the # of arrows and harp hits equal the number of flashes.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on December 12, 2008, 08:40:13 PM
This may have been mentioned elsewhere, but I just thought about it while reading your algo FAQ. Spells cast with the Twin command won't trigger Baigan's Reflect counter in the SNES version, they will in the GBA version. I really used to abuse that one back in the day.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 12, 2008, 08:46:08 PM
I hadn't written that into a particular section, but that behavior goes into bugs.
Any magical attack command in the SNES version triggers no response for "counter vs magic". This is why "Remember" does not cause those Larva monsters to counter with Psych. Same should apply to Pray, Endure, Sing and probably a few other ones that cast any semblence of magic.
:edit:
As an extension, IIRC, Jump, Build Up and Aim aren't considered physical attacks.. although that has changed. Tthe latter two are considered physical attacks in the GBA ports.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on December 16, 2008, 03:09:25 PM
A few minor notes..
The number of arrows and harp sprite hits and audio cues correlates with the number of hits you make on the enemy in the attack.
Bows and Arrows in the GBA version apply their bonuses immediately, whereas the SNES version applies the bonuses after the Bow+Arrows are equipped.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on July 24, 2009, 03:21:48 PM
Baigan was slated to have a portrait at some point in the GBA version. $C3AD can be found before several of his lines; it doesn't draw anything (obviously), but that's the same range the portraits use (Golbez is $C3AC, for comparison). Not all of his lines have it, just some in the opening, and all of the ones when he "joins the party."
(Oh yeah, I finally got around to dumping a clean copy of the European GBA script. Once I document all of the control codes I'll make it available.)
:edit:
Maybe I'm mistaken, Giott uses that same portrait value. I suppose it may have been a placeholder for characters who's portraits hadn't been drawn yet. Strange that they left it in the script, if that's the case.
:edit:
I just noticed, Cecil and Rydia's portraits are dynamic. There is only one control code for them, which must print the correct one based on where you are in the game.
:edit:
Now I feel dumb, $C3AD clears a portrait if you want to have a character without a portrait speak, since it isn't cleared automatically when using the new page code (the plus side being you don't need to use the portrait code every page for multiple-page dialogues by the same character).
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on July 28, 2009, 07:53:45 AM
FF4 Advance supports using the character name control codes (seemingly) everywhere, including monster names. It's strange that they didn't take advantage of that; I can see leaving the enemies from older versions alone, but why not use it for Dark Kain? Oh, right, this is FF4 Advance - it's not supposed to make sense.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Phoenix on July 28, 2009, 06:51:39 PM
]Any magical attack command in the SNES version triggers no response for "counter vs magic". This is why "Remember" does not cause those Larva monsters to counter with Psych. Same should apply to Pray, Endure, Sing and probably a few other ones that cast any semblence of magic.
:edit:
As an extension, IIRC, Jump, Build Up and Aim aren't considered physical attacks.. although that has changed. Tthe latter two are considered physical attacks in the GBA ports.
I was just rereading this thread, and realized I knew why this was now: conditionals for attack scripts in the SNES versions are by command number, not actual attack type. So "counter vs magic" is literally "counter vs command 02" (which covers white and black magic). And "counter vs physical" is "counter vs command 01" (which is Fight). The annoying thing is that elemental affiliation is tied to the command number too, so you can't make a generic "counter vs fire" script. I'm changing some of this in my hack so that it covers the main commands, but still, it's kind of annoying to have to work around.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on July 29, 2009, 09:12:55 AM
]Any magical attack command in the SNES version triggers no response for "counter vs magic". This is why "Remember" does not cause those Larva monsters to counter with Psych. Same should apply to Pray, Endure, Sing and probably a few other ones that cast any semblence of magic.
:edit:
As an extension, IIRC, Jump, Build Up and Aim aren't considered physical attacks.. although that has changed. Tthe latter two are considered physical attacks in the GBA ports.
I was just rereading this thread, and realized I knew why this was now: conditionals for attack scripts in the SNES versions are by command number, not actual attack type. So "counter vs magic" is literally "counter vs command 02" (which covers white and black magic). And "counter vs physical" is "counter vs command 01" (which is Fight). The annoying thing is that elemental affiliation is tied to the command number too, so you can't make a generic "counter vs fire" script. I'm changing some of this in my hack so that it covers the main commands, but still, it's kind of annoying to have to work around.
I kinda knew this from understanding some of the counter codes. If that's an easy change, it's a worthy patch to increase game difficulty.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on August 13, 2009, 04:45:37 PM
The only info worth looking into is whether Edward's solo battle affects EXP for inactive characters. I believe it doesn't because noone in the active party gains any of it, but it would be nice to check on it.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Phoenix on August 14, 2009, 04:37:31 PM
The only info worth looking into is whether Edward's solo battle affects EXP for inactive characters. I believe it doesn't because noone in the active party gains any of it, but it would be nice to check on it.
Only characters in the battle get experience. From what I remember of looking at the special battle ASM, in Edward's solo battle the others are removed and re-added right before and after the battle.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on August 14, 2009, 05:36:29 PM
The only info worth looking into is whether Edward's solo battle affects EXP for inactive characters. I believe it doesn't because noone in the active party gains any of it, but it would be nice to check on it.
Only characters in the battle get experience. From what I remember of looking at the special battle ASM, in Edward's solo battle the others are removed and re-added right before and after the battle.
This extended from a Gamefaqs discussion about EXP for members not in your party who are coming back (which went to hell). I meant characters like Kain and Tellah... are they getting the EXP from this battle?
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Phoenix on August 15, 2009, 05:56:33 PM
No, as far as I know, the check at the end of battle only adds experience to characters who are in the battle. If anyone wants to verify it, they can just check Tellah's level and experience amount before and after he leaves the party. I'm not up for playing through just for that, but if someone else is already playing through, seems easy enough to do.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on August 20, 2009, 03:48:00 PM
The game remembers which slots you placed removed equipment in. Take off all of a character's gear, putting it into empty slots. Now go back over each slot and select them - the cursor will default to the correct piece of equipment for that slot. I've never noticed this before.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Deathlike2 on August 20, 2009, 05:13:51 PM
The game remembers which slots you placed removed equipment in. Take off all of a character's gear, putting it into empty slots. Now go back over each slot and select them - the cursor will default to the correct piece of equipment for that slot. I've never noticed this before.
It's a very underrated feature. It made life easier.
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: JCE3000GT on August 20, 2009, 09:55:18 PM
As soon as you exit the menu it erased this memory. The question is can we make this a regular feature?
Title: Re: Random Lesser Known Facts
Post by: Dragonsbrethren on August 21, 2009, 11:17:49 AM
You'd need to find at least 25 bytes of free RAM (five slots for five characters), plus your code would need to be smart enough to know when the player reordered things and either track the items or set the slots back to zero. Doesn't seem worth the trouble.