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Who wins the Super Bowl?!

Pittsburgh Steelers
1 (33.3%)
Green Bay Packers
2 (66.7%)

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Voting closed: February 06, 2011, 02:43:08 PM

Author Topic: NFL season (2010-2011) week 21 (Super Bowl?!)  (Read 61216 times)

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 19 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2011, 05:17:56 PM »
for anybody who didn't catch the Seahawks/Bears game, it wasn't as close as the final score suggests.  the Bears dominated until the last few minutes.

i'm pleasantly surprised to see the Jets leading at the half.  they could have been up by even more if either David Harris didn't run that interception back at the speed of a glacier, or Nick Folk could hit a short field goal.  Harris made that giant oaf Alge Crumpler look like a lightning bolt in comparison.  still, i'm glad he broke Brady's int-free streak.

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 19 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #211 on: January 16, 2011, 06:52:35 PM »
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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 19 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #212 on: January 16, 2011, 07:02:47 PM »
To start off, give the Jets credit for winning pretty much every key thing a football team needs to win with... offense, defense, special teams. The Jets not showing up in the earlier matchup obviously wasn't a proper indication of anything (nor it should've been). A team that can beat the Colts+Peyton and Pats+Brady deserves the credit.

I was really bored with the Bears kicking the ass of the Seahawks (although part of the latter half was kinda disturbing, starting with the halfback pass for an INT).
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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 19 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #213 on: January 17, 2011, 02:55:38 AM »
there were at least a few plays where Brady had all sorts of time to throw, but couldn't find anybody open down field, and after seeing Cutler's performance earlier in the day, i'm thinking "Why doesn't he just run the ball?!".  Brady only had two rushes, compared to how many long, frustrated looks down the field?  10, 15?  it's hard to believe that with the Patriots receivers so well-covered, the Jets would also have the personnel to simultaneously stop a quarterback from rushing for some yards.

maybe it's not his style, especially in the last two seasons, but sometimes you have to go with what's available.

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 19 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #214 on: January 17, 2011, 06:46:25 AM »
there were at least a few plays where Brady had all sorts of time to throw, but couldn't find anybody open down field, and after seeing Cutler's performance earlier in the day, i'm thinking "Why doesn't he just run the ball?!".
He doesn't run, for whatever reason. Never did even before the Chiefs were blocked into blowing out his knee a couple years ago. He's Brad Johnson. :whoa:

Quote
Brady only had two rushes, compared to how many long, frustrated looks down the field?  10, 15?  it's hard to believe that with the Patriots receivers so well-covered, the Jets would also have the personnel to simultaneously stop a quarterback from rushing for some yards.
Rex changed up his defense to shut Brady down, and Brady didn't adjust to try and shut Rex down. Despite the stats saying the Patriots mostly dominated, the Patriots looked a bit confused out there.

(6) Packers @ (2) Bears: Sunday 4 est
(6) Jets @ (2) Steelers: Sunday 8 est (I think)

The NFC Championship should be epic. :happy:

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Deathlike2

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #215 on: January 17, 2011, 10:21:03 AM »
there were at least a few plays where Brady had all sorts of time to throw, but couldn't find anybody open down field, and after seeing Cutler's performance earlier in the day, i'm thinking "Why doesn't he just run the ball?!".  Brady only had two rushes, compared to how many long, frustrated looks down the field?  10, 15?  it's hard to believe that with the Patriots receivers so well-covered, the Jets would also have the personnel to simultaneously stop a quarterback from rushing for some yards.

maybe it's not his style, especially in the last two seasons, but sometimes you have to go with what's available.

That makes absolutely no sense. To make that assessment, you'd have to have a semblance of a running ability for a QB. Last I checked "pocket passer" is not a description of a runner. This was no different for Peyton... (Eli can run better than his brother). Additionally if you were paying attention to the in game commentary, they were containing Brady in the pocket (which one should do to any running QB like Big Ben and Vick), which does not allow for ANY QB to run out of it.

A QB is not able to scramble effectively in the first place (even if the QB is a statue in terms of mobility) if a team is running zone coverage, which is one of the things the Jets were running. In zone (I'm not even sure why I have to explain such a fundamental concept here), the defense behind the d-line trend to "sit" in a zone and react to the QB's eyes or the receivers that come into that zone. Many teams run such a system, like the Pats, Jets (as of late), and definitely the Bears. If a QB and the receivers understand where they need to be in the "holes" of said zone, you can slowly pick a team apart. The "Tampa 2" defense is a modified version of the Cover 2 defense (zone) which was created by Tony Dungy (formerly of the Colts and Tampa Bay Bucs). There are plenty of variations of it...

When a QB actually does scramble... it's because every receiver in man coverage are covered... and a pass rush that is contained and there would have to be open running "lanes" for a QB to go through. That was not an option.

Quote
Brady only had two rushes, compared to how many long, frustrated looks down the field?  10, 15?  it's hard to believe that with the Patriots receivers so well-covered, the Jets would also have the personnel to simultaneously stop a quarterback from rushing for some yards.
Rex changed up his defense to shut Brady down, and Brady didn't adjust to try and shut Rex down. Despite the stats saying the Patriots mostly dominated, the Patriots looked a bit confused out there.

It's hard to adjust if you don't exactly know when and what the opposing defense is doing. I'm sure Peyton was saying the same thing for the most part. I did say in a post earlier.. the numbers don't always tell the story. Sometimes a game is set by the tempo of a team... in both Pats+Colts games, it was run at the Jets pace.

I get the feeling that part of the problem with this version of the Pats defense is primarily that there's not enough veteran leadership... the defense didn't really respond in the sense that they were too passive... hoping for stuff to just happen instead of forcing the issue. Getting all the turnovers had a direct correlation with scoring first and early and I'm willing to bet that the turnover battle wasn't there when the defense had to step up (I'm sure someone will churn the numbers).

Anyways... I think the Steelers will have many issues going forward... since that patchwork o-line and a semi-healthy Polamalu is not really going to scare anyone.
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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #216 on: January 17, 2011, 01:18:42 PM »
there were at least a few plays where Brady had all sorts of time to throw, but couldn't find anybody open down field, and after seeing Cutler's performance earlier in the day, i'm thinking "Why doesn't he just run the ball?!".  Brady only had two rushes, compared to how many long, frustrated looks down the field?  10, 15?  it's hard to believe that with the Patriots receivers so well-covered, the Jets would also have the personnel to simultaneously stop a quarterback from rushing for some yards.

maybe it's not his style, especially in the last two seasons, but sometimes you have to go with what's available.

That makes absolutely no sense.

pissy, pissy. :P

Quote
To make that assessment, you'd have to have a semblance of a running ability for a QB. Last I checked "pocket passer" is not a description of a runner.

pocket passers don't have legs?  i already acknowledged "maybe it's not his style".  but when the game takes you away from what you do best, it's time to improvise ... or lose.  the Pats opted for the latter.

Brady doesn't have to be Usain Bolt, just be able to briskly move his left leg, then his right leg, then his left leg, then the right, etc.

Quote
This was no different for Peyton... (Eli can run better than his brother). Additionally if you were paying attention to the in game commentary, they were containing Brady in the pocket (which one should do to any running QB like Big Ben and Vick), which does not allow for ANY QB to run out of it.

so the pocket is an ironclad, fully closed circle now?  it's really more of a semi-circle.  he could have run outside the edges of it and picked up a few yards, rather than repeatedly throwing the ball away or taking sacks.

Quote
A QB is not able to scramble effectively in the first place (even if the QB is a statue in terms of mobility) if a team is running zone coverage, which is one of the things the Jets were running. In zone (I'm not even sure why I have to explain such a fundamental concept here),

again, pissy pissy.  which zones are close enough to the line of scrimmage that the defenders could stop the QB from picking up some yardage?  if the defenders have receivers fully covered, then by definition they're not available to go after the quarterback -- for the simple reason that they cannot be in two places at once.  i'm amazed i have to explain such a simple concept here.

EDIT: this is a good article from a levelheaded Patriots fan:

http://isportsweb.com/2011/01/17/brady-could-have-done-more-to-ground-jets/

i'm sure more such articles will emerge as the sudden postseason exit is studied.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 01:30:16 PM by assassin »

Deathlike2

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #217 on: January 17, 2011, 02:12:26 PM »
Quote
To make that assessment, you'd have to have a semblance of a running ability for a QB. Last I checked "pocket passer" is not a description of a runner.

pocket passers don't have legs?  i already acknowledged "maybe it's not his style".  but when the game takes you away from what you do best, it's time to improvise ... or lose.  the Pats opted for the latter.

Brady doesn't have to be Usain Bolt, just be able to briskly move his left leg, then his right leg, then his left leg, then the right, etc.

You can't improvise if you're contained in the pocket.

Think of Micheal Vick for a second... or any other running QB. If the pocket is surrounded in a such a way that there's no clear path "out of it", then it makes absolutely zero sense to run regardless of your foot speed. It is very impractical to do it. Sometimes you can escape only if "the pocket is collapsing", but that's not a sure thing... but sometimes you have to be lucky to do it.


Quote
Quote
This was no different for Peyton... (Eli can run better than his brother). Additionally if you were paying attention to the in game commentary, they were containing Brady in the pocket (which one should do to any running QB like Big Ben and Vick), which does not allow for ANY QB to run out of it.

so the pocket is an ironclad, fully closed circle now?  it's really more of a semi-circle.  he could have run outside the edges of it and picked up a few yards, rather than repeatedly throwing the ball away or taking sacks.

It's a semi-circle somewhat, but the longer the pass rush is going, it extends to the back as some pass rushers and lineman can end up behind the QB as time progresses. I don't recall many opportunities to see "runs to the sidelines" as you think. There's nothing bad about throwing the ball away (sometimes the coverage is that good) and coverage sacks happen.


Quote
Quote
A QB is not able to scramble effectively in the first place (even if the QB is a statue in terms of mobility) if a team is running zone coverage, which is one of the things the Jets were running. In zone (I'm not even sure why I have to explain such a fundamental concept here),

again, pissy pissy.  which zones are close enough to the line of scrimmage that the defenders could stop the QB from picking up some yardage?  if the defenders have receivers fully covered, then by definition they're not available to go after the quarterback -- for the simple reason that they cannot be in two places at once.  i'm amazed i have to explain such a simple concept here.

It doesn't work the way you're describing it. It depends on where the zones are placed (sometimes there are mixed zone+man coverages, of which I am not a coach to explain how everything works). Just because all the receivers are covered (minimum running a nickel defense), there's still enough LBs that are available (assuming that the d-line is sent to rush the passer). Receivers being covered usually imply man coverage (but combination of man+zone can apply). So, what you will have is 6 players (possibly less when running dime packages) and that's still enough to account for all 5 offensive lineman and the QB... then again that assumes so many other things.

In any case... when the pocket is contained in such a way, you can't really just "walk out of it". There has to be opportunities to do so. I remember a game in 06 where Brady "outwitted" Urlacher (Bears @ Pats) because there was an opportunity to run with the ball because every WR was covered. I also recall the pocket opening up for Brady to run the ball.. so that at least made sense to do so.


Quote
EDIT: this is a good article from a levelheaded Patriots fan:

http://isportsweb.com/2011/01/17/brady-could-have-done-more-to-ground-jets/

i'm sure more such articles will emerge as the sudden postseason exit is studied.

That is an irrational Pats fan. If you're expecting Brady to become Micheal Vick overnight, he's dreaming for another offseason. I've seen more intelligent thoughts from players who play the game or at least sites that diagram some of the issues that occurred.

 :edit:

BTW, here's a better example of times where it makes sense to run the ball as a QB.

This comes from the Bears game...

On the 2 TD runs that the Cutler ran, I recall the one where the ball was MEANT to goto him (it was a QB draw I think, or a decision to run it himself because the receivers were covered). The play was designed to goto the right side, but seeing how the there was a hole in the left side, he ran it in towards that direction and scored. If the openings are not there, you are not going to get much done. There are a lot of things about running the ball that QBs still have to follow despite the limited number of times a QB gets to do it in the first place.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 02:19:41 PM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #218 on: January 18, 2011, 04:08:55 AM »
Quote
That is an irrational Pats fan. If you're expecting Brady to become Micheal Vick overnight, he's dreaming for another offseason.

well, there is a happy medium between Michael Vick and a statue with ice blocks on its feet.

Deathlike2

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #219 on: January 18, 2011, 07:38:08 AM »
Quote
That is an irrational Pats fan. If you're expecting Brady to become Micheal Vick overnight, he's dreaming for another offseason.

well, there is a happy medium between Michael Vick and a statue with ice blocks on its feet.

QBs that don't normally run would be happy to get 1 or 2 rushing first downs if lucky. QBs that can run can get twice as many when the option is available. Any QB even including Micheal Vick who attempts to run out of the pocket as a result of the pressure and is contained properly tends to get sacked often. That was Micheal Vick in Packers @ Eagles playoff game. It only makes sense for a QB run when the defense does not properly contain a QB in the pocket. When the defense fails to contain a QB properly, QBs like Big Ben tend to get really huge plays with his arm, not his legs... which are what QBs are generally for. Of course the QB can run for the first down if the option is there when reasonable.

Besides, Vick tends to take a lot of punishment he needs not to take given his body.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 07:44:27 AM by Deathlike2 »
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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #220 on: January 21, 2011, 11:19:04 AM »
dang, i didn't know that Brady had a fractured foot.

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #221 on: January 22, 2011, 10:23:22 AM »
I'm going to make my picks right now.

Quote
Packers Vs. Bears

Packers.

Quote
Jets Vs. Steelers

Steelers


These I bet are popular picks but I still think that both of my picks are going to win. But who really knows with the playoffs. lol


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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #222 on: January 22, 2011, 05:00:05 PM »
dang, i didn't know that Brady had a fractured foot.


yea it was pretty bad, but he should be ok

and just gonna throw this out there

LETS GO JETS!!
"Sometimes ninjas do wrong to each other, and in dat way the force of tha earf' comes around da moon - and at that presence, da dirt, it overshadows the grass, so you're like, I can't cut dis grass, there's no sun comin' through. So in order to enable each other the two fruits have to look each other in da eye and understand we can only be right, as da ripe is wrong, you know what I mean?"

-HNIC

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #223 on: January 23, 2011, 03:42:55 AM »
my initial leanings are also Packers and Steelers, but let's mix things up.

Green Bay at Chicago = Chicago, 20-18

Green Bay is the better team, as I've been saying for weeks.  But the Bears match up with them well.  They won early in the season, and only lost by 7 points in Week 17, despite having far less incentive to win.  I was impressed with how the Bears' defense stifled the potent Packers' offense.  Sure, the Packers' defense stifled our offense even moreso, but seeing the Pack only muster 10 points with their season on the line makes me optimistic that Rodgers won't uncork a giant game against the Bears this week.  A true playoff game will undoubtedly bring greater focus and preparation from Green Bay than Week 17 did, but it's not like they were keeping offensive cards hidden under the table in that game, as they simply couldn't afford to.

Also, I think the frigid forecast plays in Chicago's favor slightly.  Maybe surprising, given the debacle hosting New England.  It's not so much that I think Cutler is a better cold weather quarterback than Rodgers, or that the Bears are a better cold weather team than the Packers.  Rather, I saw how Green Bay's offense really stretched its wings in a nice, warm dome game last week.  Unpleasant outdoor conditions are less amenable to a high-flying passing game.  Because Green Bay has more of an aerial attack than Chicago does to start with, they simply have more to lose in this category.  Dunno if that's how it will play out, but anything that can potentially put a damper on what Aaron Rodgers did in the Georgia Dome, or at Arizona last year, should be welcomed by his opponent.

It's not surprising that the Bears handle the Packers better than they do other teams, since Lovie Smith made it his top priority after being hired to beat the Packers.  They are 8-6 (.571) in his 7 years as head coach against an above-average Green Bay team that went 62-50 overall, or .554.  Past seasons records' obviously don't carry into this one, but the record is reflective of special preparation, imho.

=====================

New York at Pittsburgh = New York, 22-20

Again, Pittsburgh is the better team.  But New York's on quite a roll in the playoffs, with a very impressive victory last week.  The Steelers' was impressive in its own right, but kind of messy and reliant on weird happenings.  Also, the Jets beat Pittsburgh during the regular season, albeit leaning on a 97-yard kickoff return TD which probably won't be replicated this time.  Now, I think Big Ben's mobility will make it hard for New York to duplicate what they did against New England, but their defense showed enough versatility and had enough creative play calling that I think they can adjust to a different QB.  Rex Ryan is very sharp, and that secondary is smothering.

=====================

yes, i'm sparse on analysis here, but i'm lazy and tired.  besides, most of the stats would back up the opposite picks winning, and why should i undermine myself? :P

*fully prepared to go 0-2 this week*
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 06:40:12 AM by assassin »

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Re: NFL season (2010-2011) week 20 (playoffs?!)
« Reply #224 on: January 23, 2011, 06:54:05 AM »
*fully prepared to go 0-2 this week*
The feeling is mutual.

My picks: Bears and Steelers.

The only analysis I can offer is that for their week 15 matchup, the Steelers were without Polamalu. The Steelers are demonstratively better with Troy in the secondary, and are below .500 without him. The Packers/Bears is a coinflip. Overall, the Packers probably edge out the Bears in all categories this year, but to root for the cheeseheads....... :banonsmash:

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