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Pinkpuff

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2015, 12:19:33 PM »
Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
Very nicely done! So I imagine in this that the two other Dark Crystals might be in the Feymarch and Tomra (Tomra's just a guess) I love the idea of a full compliment of Elemental Fiends that you're using and palette swapped Rubicante actually does look remarkably different.

Thanks! Yeah, the sealed cave has been turned into the Ice Mines, where the Ice crystal keeps the ground water frozen and the Dwarves in Tomra mine it for water and refrigeration purposes; it's the only real source of actual water in the underworld. The Feymarch holds the Shadow Crystal, and the Dwarf Castle with Giott & co. have the Bolt crystal.

Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
I just did a little research, I had no idea Calcabrina was also from Dante's Inferno. And it looks like the remainder will bear just as much resemblance to their mythical counterparts than the original four fiends (Ruffle-haired does not mean Zombie, Turtle is not Dog, Tornado is not Beard (but I can at least see some of the symbolism there), Red... actually fits Rubicante well, the term Rabid does not). Good use of the same circle though. I wasn't aware they all came from the same part of Dante's Inferno.

Yeah I didn't stress too much over which names to use, I just grabbed ones that tickled my fancy.

Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
I really like that you're delving in deeper into the theological aspects of FFIV, if just so, with the Summons (and mages?) referring to Bahamut as a God to be worshipped and having one of the fiends as a Prophet is a rather nice touch.

Thanks. People often express confusion over the idea of a "Holy Fiend"... seems like a contradiction to a lot of people... so I tried to give it a more flavorful aspect of how you can have something evil still be "Holy"; a corrupt religious figure. Also he heals you just like Rubicant does. I tried to give each of them somewhat of a connection to their upper world counterparts other than their appearance.

Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
I see you're making good use of the expanded shields (or possibly got rid of others) for left handed equipment for Mages. A good way to make sure they can actually have Defense Multipliers short of hacking the game to look at something else.

Definitely! Also gives some of the more mage-like characters pause when considering whether to use a two-handed weapon. You'll be sacrificing your ring slot, which means not only less defense, but many of the rings have interesting properties or stat bonuses. So while you can give Porom a hammer and have her dish out some decent physical damage, you may or may not want to do that. Likewise, Edward can put on a dagger instead of his harp, allowing him to use a ring and maybe survive a little better (seeing as he's still quite squishy).
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2015, 01:22:19 PM »
Those are all some really neat changes. Yeah, FFIV's Dwarven lands doesn't seem to have any water and judging from the reaction by one of the Dwarves to clear blue water I imagine they drink Magma, the idea you've made has a lot more sense to it. Also again, a Fire Area and an Ice Area are two places that are noticeably missing from FFIV so I'm glad to see you're rectifying that.

Since you mentioned two-handed weapons, will there be more available? Or are you using the slots available more judiciously?

Your idea for the Holy Fiend is great, while more story to go along with it (a subplot or something) would make it even more impactful, I understand too well the constraints of space all around.
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Pinkpuff

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2015, 05:36:26 PM »
Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 01:22:19 PM
Those are all some really neat changes. Yeah, FFIV's Dwarven lands doesn't seem to have any water and judging from the reaction by one of the Dwarves to clear blue water I imagine they drink Magma, the idea you've made has a lot more sense to it. Also again, a Fire Area and an Ice Area are two places that are noticeably missing from FFIV so I'm glad to see you're rectifying that.

Doing the best I can. There are some graphical oddities in the Ice Mines currently though. They're using the Feymarch/Sylvan tileset with a blue/white palette but for some reason it looks fine in FF4kster but in the actual game the walls glow red. Also the palette of the battle background is green like the Sylvan cave... is there a way to change that but still have the Feymarch and Sylvan caves keep their colors?

Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 01:22:19 PM
Since you mentioned two-handed weapons, will there be more available? Or are you using the slots available more judiciously?

The Avenger and Ragnarok are two handed, as well as all hammers and harps. You need two hands to operate bows and arrows, so even though they're not in the range they still count for all practical purposes.

Quote from: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 01:22:19 PM
Your idea for the Holy Fiend is great, while more story to go along with it (a subplot or something) would make it even more impactful, I understand too well the constraints of space all around.

Right now the plot is basically going to just be what's needed to get the game playable and making sense from beginning to end. There are going to be a lot of optional scenarios near the end so I'll see what kind of space I have to work with afterwards in terms of fleshing things out more.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2015, 05:43:42 PM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on February 04, 2015, 05:36:26 PM


Doing the best I can. There are some graphical oddities in the Ice Mines currently though. They're using the Feymarch/Sylvan tileset with a blue/white palette but for some reason it looks fine in FF4kster but in the actual game the walls glow red. Also the palette of the battle background is green like the Sylvan cave... is there a way to change that but still have the Feymarch and Sylvan caves keep their colors?

I'm afraid that there is not a way to change that, not easily anyhow The only solution is an unlikable one and that's to copy the Sylvan Cave background onto a background you don't wish to use (they're all used in the normal game, but Beach is probably the one least seen) since both the Sylvan Caves and the Feymarch are both still using their default looks both the normal background and the alternate background are being used by default in the game.

Quote
The Avenger and Ragnarok are two handed, as well as all hammers and harps. You need two hands to operate bows and arrows, so even though they're not in the range they still count for all practical purposes.

Ah right, that makes a good deal of sense all in all.

Quote
Right now the plot is basically going to just be what's needed to get the game playable and making sense from beginning to end. There are going to be a lot of optional scenarios near the end so I'll see what kind of space I have to work with afterwards in terms of fleshing things out more.

That's actually a very good way to go about it. It assures that you don't crash into a wall of lack of space, but instead are able to drive along smoothly and might be able to stop before you come up against that wall.
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avalanche

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2015, 07:51:56 PM »
Quote from: Pinkpuff on February 04, 2015, 05:36:26 PM
Doing the best I can. There are some graphical oddities in the Ice Mines currently though. They're using the Feymarch/Sylvan tileset with a blue/white palette but for some reason it looks fine in FF4kster but in the actual game the walls glow red. Also the palette of the battle background is green like the Sylvan cave... is there a way to change that but still have the Feymarch and Sylvan caves keep their colors?

The tileset palette tricks are briefly described here: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1713.msg22009#msg22009.  The glowing red is because the palette entry is reassigned continuously by the game from a color table elsewhere, and as such it disregards the tileset's palette for those color entries.  With some assembly hacking I'm sure you could make it glow a different color, but I understand that is generally out of bounds for your project.  Too bad, glowing a different color would be a neat effect.

Although, since that tileset has two palettes which are used by the game to control the glowing effects separately, IF you were willing to ditch one of them in the original game areas, then you could very easily modify the other one to the blue you want. 
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chillyfeez

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2015, 08:10:36 PM »
Hey, avalanche... I have a quandary you might be able to help with, if you're so inclined...

Somehow, in my project, I seem to have accidentally altered the palette for the visual effect where the moon flies off away from earth (normally part of the ending, but in my hack it's part of the opening events) the visual effect was playing fine for most of the time I've been working on it, but I've been play testing the past week, and the change is noticeable. And horrible.

Now, I know that in most cases, the palettes the game uses are loaded into RAM at 00:0CDB, but I've toyed around with all of the data there to no avail. I've also looked through ALL of the rest of RAM and can't seem to find anything else that looks like a palette. I am therefore unable to trace back to the location in ROM of the palette(s) for this visual effect.

So... Any thoughts? If you happen to know where the palette is in ROM, well, that would be fantastic. If not, any idea where in RAM the elusive palette(s) might be loaded?
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avalanche

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2015, 08:34:31 PM »
Quote from: chillyfeez on February 04, 2015, 08:10:36 PM
Hey, avalanche... I have a quandary you might be able to help with, if you're so inclined...

Somehow, in my project, I seem to have accidentally altered the palette for the visual effect where the moon flies off away from earth (normally part of the ending, but in my hack it's part of the opening events) the visual effect was playing fine for most of the time I've been working on it, but I've been play testing the past week, and the change is noticeable. And horrible.

Now, I know that in most cases, the palettes the game uses are loaded into RAM at 00:0CDB, but I've toyed around with all of the data there to no avail. I've also looked through ALL of the rest of RAM and can't seem to find anything else that looks like a palette. I am therefore unable to trace back to the location in ROM of the palette(s) for this visual effect.

So... Any thoughts? If you happen to know where the palette is in ROM, well, that would be fantastic. If not, any idea where in RAM the elusive palette(s) might be loaded?

Well, not off hand.. Might be able to look into it with no guarantees  :)  Do you know which palettes are messed up? Is it one object in particular that is off?

 :edit:
Okay I got some info.  For that scene, it looks like the entire CGRAM that holds all palette colors is filled from 13:D200 (ROM 9D400) which is normally 256 bytes, but copied twice back-to-back.  Remember that scene has some Mode 7 going on too.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 09:50:52 PM by avalanche »
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chillyfeez

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2015, 09:49:39 PM »
The sun, the earth, and maybe one of the other planets are off.
The moons, the stars (I think), space (the background) and (at least one of) the other planets are fine.

Any insight you can lend would be greatly appreciated. I can send you a copy of the ROM if it'd help. The visual effect is in the first minute of the opening.
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avalanche

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2015, 09:52:19 PM »
(I edited my post above before I saw your reply, just in case it doesn't show up as unread...)
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chillyfeez

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2015, 10:24:08 PM »
Awesome. I did just put some custom code in the 13 block that could be easily relocated. Thought I was only using empty space but... Whatever.
Hopefully this will solve the issue, but I won't be able to work on it tonight. I'll let you know.
Thanks for your help!

 :edit: Well, 9D400 is not the place I was thinking of where I put some custom code, but comparing it against a vanilla ROM, it definitely is altered.
Doesn't look like ASM code, but doesn't entirely look like palettes either, which leads me to believe it must be something that I never intended to change in the first place.
It's likely one of those things where my ROM is not fully compatible with FF4kster anymore, so sometimes the program changes things it's not supposed to change when I save.
Guess it's time to make a new update to my "FF4kster Edits Correction" patch.
 :banonsmash:

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 08:18:56 AM by chillyfeez »
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Madsiur

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2015, 08:14:54 AM »
Quote from: chillyfeez on January 28, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
Whether the monster uses a lunar script or not is determined entirely by whether you are on the moon or not.
So if you put lunar monsters in the Overworld, they will use entirely different battle sequences.

... Did that answer your question?

How do I know if a monster is on the moon? Is there a formation data somewhere that would have monsters IDs and map ID?
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chillyfeez

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2015, 09:40:31 AM »
If you're on the moon when the battle happens, then the monster is on the moon. The game actually looks at the current world identifier at (I think) 7E:1700 in RAM. It's much more simplistic than most people expect. That's why moon monsters automatically fight differently if you put them on earth.
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2015, 09:54:33 AM »
Quote from: Madsiur on February 08, 2015, 08:14:54 AM
Quote from: chillyfeez on January 28, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
Whether the monster uses a lunar script or not is determined entirely by whether you are on the moon or not.
So if you put lunar monsters in the Overworld, they will use entirely different battle sequences.

... Did that answer your question?

How do I know if a monster is on the moon? Is there a formation data somewhere that would have monsters IDs and map ID?

Not quite Chillyfeez, if you notice the Monsters on the Moon have normal AI setups in addition you can fight Slime and Tofu on Earth.

I tested this with Eukaryots and put them on Earth with a changed AI Setup (because the fight AI are basically the same from Moon to Earth) and they followed the changed AI setup from the Earth which the editor said they would.

There really aren't that many monsters on the moon and those that are only have their routines changed purely by index are in Bahamut's Cave and the Lunar Subterrane (We can see this in the Lunarian Lobby as well with the glitch "Treasure Monster" which proceeds to petrify itself) There is nothing signifying a monster should be Earth or Moon, you could put an Imp in the Lunar Subterrane and it's only problem would be its AI script would be askewed. I will take a look though. But generally every map after 346 (15A) except for the Lunar Passage maps would apply. For the record, Prokryot, Eurakryot, Red Worm, Moon Cell, Pudding, Grenade, despite being on the Surface and in the Lunar Passages do not count as Moon monsters. I'll do a quick ASM search and try to find out exactly why this is...

Found it! Much easier than I thought it would be to find, actually... breakpointed a Read on 1700 as battle occurs. I can see why you thought it worked that way Chillyfeez, but the game never checks if you are on the Moon, it just checks to see if you are in an area (03 is always area) so...

$00/874B   AD 00 17   LDA $1700  [$00:1700]   A:000D   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - Load A from World Index
$00/874E   C9 03   CMP #$03   A:0003   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdizc -  Is it an area?
$00/8750   D0 23   BNE $23    [$8775]   A:0003   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdiZC - If not, branch past.
$00/8752   AD 01 17   LDA $1701  [$00:1701]   A:0003   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdiZC - Load Map Index Byte
$00/8755   F0 1E   BEQ $1E    [$8775]   A:0001   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdizC - If not Underworld/Moon areas branch past.
$00/8757   AD 02 17   LDA $1702  [$00:1702]   A:0001   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdizC - Load Map Index Byte 2.
$00/875A   C9 5A   CMP #$5A   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdizC - Is it Bahamut's Cave or higher?
$00/875C   90 07   BCC $07    [$8765]   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdiZC - If not, branch past.
$00/875E   C9 5D   CMP #$5D   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdiZC - Is it Glitch World or Higher?
$00/8760   B0 03   BCS $03    [$8765]   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - If so, branch past.
$00/8762   4C 6D 87   JMP $876D  [$00:876D]   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - Jump to Rest of Routine
----------------------------------------------------------
$00/8765   C9 67   CMP #$67   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - Is it Lunar Subterrane 1F or Higher?
$00/8767   90 0C   BCC $0C    [$8775]   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - If not, branch past.
$00/8769   C9 7F   CMP #$7F   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - Is it (Final Map) Glitch World or less? (Not sure how necessary that is)
$00/876B   B0 08   BCS $08    [$8775]   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - If not, branch past.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$00/876D   AD 01 18   LDA $1801  [$00:1801]   A:005A   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - Load A from second byte of encounter data.
$00/8770   09 80   ORA #$80   A:0001   X:0180   Y:0000   P:envMxdizc - Add 80 if applicable.
$00/8772   8D 01 18   STA $1801  [$00:1801]   A:0081   X:0180   Y:0000   P:eNvMxdizc - Store A in second byte of encounter data.


I appear to have been mistaken about the Treasure Chest Monster in the Lunar Lobby, that is actually a Red Giant as memory serves right, a Moon Monster who petrifies himself because of using default AI Routines.

What this also tells us is the game looks at encounters in the 0X80 range of encounters to activate the Moon AI.

I hope that was somewhat helpful.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 10:30:16 AM by Grimoire LD »
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avalanche

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2015, 10:30:11 AM »
Uh oh.  Are there monsters that occur in both lunar-AI and non-lunar-AI places?  Do they "work"?
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Grimoire LD

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Re: Graphics info
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2015, 10:37:34 AM »
In ordinary circumstances there is One and that's a Red Giant fought in the Lunarian Lobby on the "HP Restore" spot. It proceeds to petrify itself as memory serves me right because of incorrect indexes.

I got around this for several enemies in Combat Boost by giving them an "If in this Formation Index, use this AI" so they can fight differently, but effectively in the Overworld and Moon Areas.
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