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Library of the Ancients => Final Fantasy IV Research & Development => Topic started by: Madsiur on December 08, 2014, 07:10:35 PM
Title: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on December 08, 2014, 07:10:35 PM
I decided to start coding a graphic editor for FFIV. I'm aiming to cover monsters, summons, portraits and character sprites (owerworld and battle). Now I'm not going to start this if PinkPuff decide to implement such features in her editor. I like coding and my goal would be to make an editor that is not in a process of creation or that has already been made. I would like to focus on monsters first.
First, is there a data table with the same number of elements as there is different monsters (excluding special forms) where the palette and graphics offsets are stored?
Second, where does the monster palettes are stored?
Third, is there some tile mapping data for regular monsters? FF6 uses 8x8 and 16x16 stencils and the tile mapping is done inside the stencil (so the tile mapping data is either 8 or 16 bytes). Is it the same for FF4?
Now, reading the first page of this thread (http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1856.0) gives me a good idea about how handling special forms.
Is there anything else I would be missing? :hmm:
Thanks!
Edit: Does summons are considered monsters graphic-wise?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 08, 2014, 09:02:54 PM
Graphic wise, I do believe so, but this thread of ...
Should help rather immensely in understanding, graphics have never been my forte so to me it's a bit gobbledygook.
I thought Chillyfeez also had a tutorial on portraits, but maybe I'm wrong?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on December 08, 2014, 09:07:26 PM
This would be a great tool to have, Madsiur, and to my knowledge, I don't think pinkpuff has any plans to implement any graphics editing any time soon.
I think the answers to most of your questions are out there. I don't know all of them off the top of my head, but I'll help you dig them up, because down the road, I will could really benefit from a tool like this...
Quote
First, is there a data table with the same number of elements as there is different monsters (excluding special forms) where the palette and graphics offsets are stored?
I think you might be looking for this info: http://rb.thundaga.com/monsters/monster_image_data_ff2us.txt The "size" (usually, when it's not a Special Size) is actually a pointer to a two-byte rectangular measurement (byte 0 width, byte 1 height) in the table at 7015E (in ROM with header). And the graphical pointer (the last two bytes in each entry) is used as follows: ([pointer] * 8) + 8200 = Beginning of graphical data. (Again, ROM with header)
Quote
Second, where does the monster palettes are stored?
Don't know this one, but the answer is almost certainly out there somewhere...
Quote
Third, is there some tile mapping data for regular monsters? FF6 uses 8x8 and 16x16 stencils and the tile mapping is done inside the stencil (so the tile mapping data is either 8 or 16 bytes). Is it the same for FF4?
There's no mapping, so to speak. The aforementioned table identifies a rectangular shape and the tiles fill in that rectangle from left to right, top to bottom, starting with the first tile pointed to by the graphical pointer.
And for the most part, yes, summon graphics are treated like monster graphics. The actual sprites are in the same banks of data as monster sprites, and they use the same palettes. The summons that are also enemy monsters (all of them except chocobo, Jinn, Shiva and Indra) use the same sprites as enemies that they use as summons. A lot of summons are Special Sizes, though, and to make Shiva, Indra and Jinn enemies requires altering special size data such as the process I described here: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1890.msg19384#msg19384
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 09, 2014, 12:49:14 AM
E7000-E7E9F(1CEE00-1CFC9F)Enemy Palette Data I'm not sure to what degree that data has been analyzed here yet. I did create a list for my hack (that replaces every single enemy, so it should be pretty damn complete...). Can clean that up and post it if anyone wishes.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 09, 2014, 01:05:18 AM
I think that would be of great worth for Chillyfeez and Madsiur definitely.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on December 09, 2014, 05:52:56 PM
I did create a list for my hack (that replaces every single enemy, so it should be pretty damn complete...). Can clean that up and post it if anyone wishes.
Yes, that would be much appreciated!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on December 09, 2014, 06:17:27 PM
Hi Madsir,
By all means, go right ahead. Editing acutal sprite bitmaps will not be part of the scope of FF4kster in the foreseeable future. Even if it were to become such, it would not happen for a very, very long time. That said, I would like to incorporate more graphics into FF4kster from the perspective of being able to read them and display them. Thus I am probably just as interested in this information as you are.
The only capacity in which FF4kster has any immediate plans for "changing graphics" would be, for example, changing what sprite a particular monster has (like, say, changing the Yellow Dragon from being the "sitting down dragon" sprite to the "coily spring oriental dragon" sprite, or to the "fat horizontal flying dragon" sprite), which is something it can technically already do I think, but instead of seeing the results how they would appear in the game, it currently just gives you some awkward text descriptions like those you see here, or maybe some numbers (i.e. Sprite 25, Palette 6 or something). Ideally I'd like it to be able to give a realistic preview of what your monster will look like as you edit it so that you don't have to keep going "change, save, load up ZSNES, fight a battle, look at the sprite, load up FF4kster, change, save, load up ZSNES, ..."
But in any case, what is not (currently) part of the plan for FF4kster is to, say, be able to draw a moustache on the dragon; or to change it into something else entirely, like a samurai or something.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Gedankenschild on December 10, 2014, 02:57:49 AM
OK, so I'll just copy and paste my list here. It doesn't contain the addresses themselves, but lists each entry in the enemy palette section. I noted the (headerless) original address a few times when I wanted to manually check and compare something. Ignore the "snespalin ff2.sfc xxxxxxx" parts, those are just the command lines for inserting my TLP palettes to where my hack loads them from, which I added for my own convenience.
"--------" means there's nothing there but 0000s = black (sometimes with a transparent color value though, for some reason). The three palette swaps at the bottom are of course dummied out in the US version. The palette for the Size/Toad/Piggy/Egg status effects (yes, they share ONE) is elsewhere at 074B30 (headerless). The first (non-transparent) color of that palette is also used for floating enemy shadows. It's getting late here, so I hope I'm still making sense... :sleep: Ask away if anything's unclear!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on December 13, 2014, 09:26:42 AM
I think you might be looking for this info: http://rb.thundaga.com/monsters/monster_image_data_ff2us.txt
That helped. I found out the table containing this info is at 0x7CC00 (ROM with header). Now I need to check how many different graphics there is because a lot of monsters share graphics.
Edit: Also, would a monster graphics relocalization option would be a good idea? Since there doesn't seems to be free space after the monster data, you would need to delete a graphic in order to add a new one. I could relocate the graphics by expanding the ROM, but this would mean changes to the code, where the offset 0x48000 is added to the graphic pointer. I will check if I can find where this is done in the code. Also the free space could not be unlimited even with that option since the last pointer cannot be higher than 0xFFFF. By not having the font between the monster graphics, we can however save 0x1000 bytes...
But in any case, what is not (currently) part of the plan for FF4kster is to, say, be able to draw a moustache on the dragon; or to change it into something else entirely, like a samurai or something.
That is what I'm aiming for as well as assigning an existing graphic to a different monster. I already have a good part of the coding done since I was doing a graphic editor for FF6A. I got a fully functional portrait editor with image importing and drawing features but never released it since I wanted to do monsters too, but I cannot break the mystery of the monster data in FF6A. :sad:
Also, could anyone upload a copy of Yousei's FF4 ROM map? I've seen it as an attachment on some other post but it seems all old attachments are broken now. Maybe it's the attachment system that is broken?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 13, 2014, 02:18:57 PM
Sure, I also have some of my various RAM findings thrown in there as well.
You can find the original at rb.thundaga.com under Tower of Babil RAM Notes as well.
There is apparently free space for something... Chillyfeez ported my extra dungeon boss (copy of Ramuh) into unused space at the end of the Summons without having to delete anything.
I am afraid though that if the ROM is expanded, FF4kster will break.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on December 13, 2014, 03:16:21 PM
There is apparently free space for something... Chillyfeez ported my extra dungeon boss (copy of Ramuh) into unused space at the end of the Summons without having to delete anything.
I am afraid though that if the ROM is expanded, FF4kster will break.
This is sad news. Is it because FF4kster reads the ROM size byte when loading the ROM or does the program checks the file size in bytes?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on December 13, 2014, 03:37:09 PM
I think it checks the relative file size and subtracts 200 for whether its header or unheader. I could be completely off base though.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on December 14, 2014, 12:59:21 AM
Madsiur, there are a few different banks of monster graphics. They're all pretty close together, but they are distinct if you're viewing the graphics in a program like Tile Layer. The graphical pointer is multiplied by 8 before it's actually used, so monster images cover a lot of ground. The bank that contains the summons (which is the last bank) has a couple of empty spaces - one that's big enough for a monster about 6x6 (maybe a little larger) which is just before imp, and one that is huge (big enough at least to replicate the evil wall) which is after Asura. All of it might not be relevant, but a lot of my research on summon images will probably be useful info to you for this project: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1890.0
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on December 14, 2014, 07:39:07 AM
Be aware that any kind of data relocation or ROM expansion will render your ROM horribly incompatible with FF4kster.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on December 14, 2014, 09:41:56 AM
All of it might not be relevant, but a lot of my research on summon images will probably be useful info to you for this project: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1890.0
Yes, this thread is really helpful concerning special sizes. I'm thinking if I should have a checkbox that tells if the monster is special size or not...
Also concerning these monster, I'm assuming bit 6 of the first bytes tells it is an character battle sprite? I'm unsure of the other bits of the first byte and the last two bytes....
Be aware that any kind of data relocation or ROM expansion will render your ROM horribly incompatible with FF4kster.
Well this is the last thing I want to do so I'll give up on the expansion/relocalization idea.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on December 14, 2014, 06:29:16 PM
The lower portion of the first byte for character enemies indicates which "actor" the character will be. DkKnight is Actor 0, Dragoon is 1, Girl (Rydia) is 2, Bard is 4, Karate is 6. Think about them pretty much in the order they appear in the game. You can make any playable character an enemy by picking the appropriate ID. According to Grimoire LD, the next byte represents which character's palette the enemy will use (so you can fight a dark blue Rosa by making the first two bytes "4500"). I've honestly never tried that though - I'm taking his word on it. I'm guessing the "0080" is either completely necessary for character enemies or completely irrelevant, but either way, no reason to mess with that.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on December 21, 2014, 04:57:16 PM
Well I started this week the actual coding of the editor and I had a question not directly related to graphics...
Where in the ROM is the game title in ASCII with the game version and country code?
I'm planning to make the editor compatible with the japanese version as well as the US version 1.0, if it ever exists....
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on December 21, 2014, 07:38:53 PM
Sorry, not a clue.
Anybody else?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: JCE3000GT on December 21, 2014, 09:55:33 PM
*edit*
Assuming NO HEADER and LoROM. Add $8000 if HiROM etc.
Quote
$7FC0 = Title in ASCII for LoROM (22 bytes in length, some ROMs have 21 bytes) $7FDB = Version # (1 byte (is X, V1.X)) $7FD6 = ROM Type (1 byte) $7FD7 = ROM Size (1 byte) $7FD8 = SRAM Size (1 byte) $7FD9 = Country Code (1 byte) $7FDA = Publisher / Company (1 byte) $7FDC = Checksum (2 bytes)
ROM Size: 00-07 = Invalid Size 08 = 2MBit 09 = 4MBit 0A = 8MBit 0B = 10/12/14MBit 0C = 24/32MBit 0D = 48/64MBit 0F-FF = Do not know any factory ROM with this size
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: JCE3000GT on December 22, 2014, 11:04:43 AM
Anytime. :D
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on January 04, 2015, 08:46:17 AM
Now concerning special sizes, I want to load dynamically the special size data (starting at 0x7D000) if the monster has one or multiple entries in this table. I understand some monsters have multiple special size data, like D.Mist who has entry 0 and 1 (0x7D000 and ox7D005)... Is there a way to know how many special size data (how many forms) a monster has or is it only known by the AI script, which would have a command to change graphics?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 04, 2015, 09:29:23 AM
I documented them to the best of my ability (because, you would really have to looks at every size-changing monster's ai to know for sure) a while ago: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1713.msg18523#msg18523
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on January 04, 2015, 11:23:42 AM
you would really have to looks at every size-changing monster's ai to know for sure
I think I'll do that. I had a quick look at the AI scripts and graphic changing seems fairly easy to identify. D.Mist uses commands F0 00 and F0 01, which point to special sizes 00 and 01. However, there are oddities such as in script C5:
I wonder what F0 60 is since 60 would be an index beyond the speical forms (0x3F indexes)...
Also, I wonder what is the order of the AI scripts. They are in two blocks (normal enemies and Lunar Subterrane/Cave Bahamut). Are they following the same order as this document? http://rb.thundaga.com/monsters/monster_image_data_ff2us.txt
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 04, 2015, 02:35:24 PM
Quote
Code: [Select]
F0 60 F1 35 E1 FF
I wonder what F0 60 is since 60 would be an index beyond the speical forms (0x3F indexes)...
Interesting... I wonder if this could be a key to the mysteries avalanche was pondering recently about monsters that change form in nonstandard ways. given there are 0x3F special sizes, that leaves two bits unaccounted for in the "change form" command, leaving for the possibility of as many as three different nonstandard transitions...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on January 04, 2015, 05:53:11 PM
I wonder what F0 60 is since 60 would be an index beyond the speical forms (0x3F indexes)...
Interesting... I wonder if this could be a key to the mysteries avalanche was pondering recently about monsters that change form in nonstandard ways. given there are 0x3F special sizes, that leaves two bits unaccounted for in the "change form" command, leaving for the possibility of as many as three different nonstandard transitions...
Darn, I just got so excited! But I only see 3 uses:
F0 60 - Q.Eblan in AI B8 F0 43 - Titan (Rydia's) in AI 89 F0 74 - Elements in AI D1 (reflex)
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 04, 2015, 06:49:50 PM
Yeah, and I checked Bahamut's AI and Mombomb's, and neither uses those two bits in its transition. Still, I'd like to experiment with them to see if there's any noticeable effect. It would be pretty easy to try it out on D.Mist...
:edit: OK, so I tried it on D.Mist. It does something, but it's weird... Apparently, when you set bit 6 or 7 in the parameters of F0, the command makes the monster flash the second form, but then revert to the original form again. And it appears that which bit(s) is (are) set determines the duration the second form is visible. 01:a literal flash 10:about half a second 11:about one second
So... Not really very helpful, but somewhat interesting to know anyway...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on January 07, 2015, 07:35:20 PM
Apparently, when you set bit 6 or 7 in the parameters of F0, the command makes the monster flash the second form, but then revert to the original form again.
Well it is good to know.
Concerning the attack sequences, is there a table where attack sequences are assigned to monsters? I realized by looking at FF4kster that an single attack sequence (monster AI) can be shared by multiple enemies...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 07, 2015, 08:08:02 PM
Unfortunately, the AI sequence is part of the monster data table, and not in a table by itself - and attack sequences are enormously complicated.
Grimoire LD did some super-helpful research, though, that, among other things, lists each monster that uses each AI component. http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1893.0
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on January 28, 2015, 05:53:43 PM
Finally the forum is up again!
I had a question about attack sequences. How can I know if an attack sequence (or attack sequence group data) is part of the regular data or Lunar Subterrane/Cave Bahamut Attack Sequences? Is there a bit bit for that somewhere (monster data maybe???)
Thanks
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 28, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
Whether the monster uses a lunar script or not is determined entirely by whether you are on the moon or not. So if you put lunar monsters in the Overworld, they will use entirely different battle sequences.
... Did that answer your question?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on January 29, 2015, 06:13:29 PM
Yeah, and I checked Bahamut's AI and Mombomb's, and neither uses those two bits in its transition. Still, I'd like to experiment with them to see if there's any noticeable effect. It would be pretty easy to try it out on D.Mist...
:edit: OK, so I tried it on D.Mist. It does something, but it's weird... Apparently, when you set bit 6 or 7 in the parameters of F0, the command makes the monster flash the second form, but then revert to the original form again. And it appears that which bit(s) is (are) set determines the duration the second form is visible. 01:a literal flash 10:about half a second 11:about one second
So... Not really very helpful, but somewhat interesting to know anyway...
I figured some of this mystery out!
Those top 2 bits seem to indicate the monster slot to apply the change to. The ones that have it set are those that occur with other monsters in the encounter.
As for the transition style, that is controlled by the [previously] "unknown byte" in the special monster size table, byte 3 (zero based). The bottom 4 bits, specifically:
0 = Instant change, no sound 1 = Pixelizes out one and pixelizes in the next, no sound ***Neato and unused?? 2 = Flicker between, play sound effect 3 = Funky scanline transition effect, no sound ***Also neato and unused?? 4 = Shake a moment, then instant change, no sound. 5 = Shoot up, then back down, no sound. (Dr Lugae)
I'm not sure what the upper 4 bits are used for, but it is also obviously monster index related, as they are only used on those where there are multiple monsters in the encounter.
So there look to be a couple of extra effects that I don't think are actually used. Some monsters have them but those monsters never change graphics. To see them in the debugger without modifying the ROM, go fight the Mist Dragon, put an execute breakpoint at 02:CCC7, and change the accumulator to any of the values 0-5 above.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 29, 2015, 10:19:48 PM
Good going with transition style! I figured out those top two bits just recently, too, because I'm working on a dual special boss battle in my hack currently. The upper four bits in byte three have to do with palettes. If they match for both monsters, then they will both use the latest slot's palette (until that monster dies). I really took the long, confusing way round to figure that all out, too... I put together the monster in slot 0 first, and put an imp (as a dummy) in slot 1 just to test it all out, and everything worked fine. Then I made the second monster, and things kinda went haywire. Monster 0 was sporting monster 1's palette, and while monster 0 transitioned fine, 1's transition was all kinds of buggy. So then I spent a couple of hours researching the Eblans. Would have been far less if slick was up at the time, but even though I needed to go back to look at my own research, what I have saved on my computer is not complete, so I had to actually find the Eblans' data before I could study them. But once I knew I was looking at the right entries the missing pieces became pretty clear.
BTW, I also discovered that byte 0 is entirely position. The upper four bits are X, and the lower four are Y. Not quite sure how I missed that before...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 30, 2015, 05:09:20 AM
Two questions semi-related to this:
In the hack I'm working on, I'm trying to get working some additional monsters that also use the Fiends' graphics. But I ran into a couple of issues:
1. Changing the "palette" (at least in the monster info) does nothing to change the actual color of the monster. Is this hard-coded? Or is there a way to get the monster to change color without affecting the color of the other Fiend that uses the same graphic? It seems like there should be, since I know in the "Elements" battle you can sometimes see the monster palette change before the sprite.
2. I started with a monster based off Cagnazzo's appearance, and I told it to "set sprite to 19" thinking that, just like in the Cagnazzo battle, he would erect a wall of water around him. He sort of did, but rather than a wall of water it was a wall of glitches. Is there anything I can do to get him to display a wall of water correctly that you guys know of?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 30, 2015, 07:55:20 AM
There's a lot involved in changing monster sprites, pinkpuff, and from your description, I'm not quite sure which of the details you're missing... First of all, the palette for a special size monster is coded into the table referenced here (http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1890.msg19384#msg19384), instead of the regular monster info palette assignment (note how most bosses "use" palette 00, because they are actually ignoring that byte altogether), that's how, for instance, k. And q. Eblan can change palettes mid-battle. Also, it's important to know that all special size monsters in the same battle draw from the same pool of sprites - 254 of them beginning with the first one pointed by the graphical pointer, so they all have to share a graphical pointer that begins with the earliest sprite used, and the sprtite arrangement of all of the special sized monsters has to account for this common starting point. If you're making a monster that is just a second Kainazzo, it'll probably be easiest to just copy Kainazzo's details. But if you're doing something more like the Elements battle, it'll likely be more complicated. Did that help at all? I don't think I explained that very well, so let me know if you need clarification.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on January 30, 2015, 08:28:02 AM
BTW, I also discovered that byte 0 is entirely position. The upper four bits are X, and the lower four are Y. Not quite sure how I missed that before...
Yep. A few other bits regarding which are hidden, in case you don't have them yet: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1990.msg21860#msg21860 (http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1990.msg21860#msg21860)
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 30, 2015, 08:30:25 AM
I'm basically just making a "second Cagnazzo". Maybe I should just describe the result I want a little better:
I'm making it so that there are four underground crystal scenarios/adventures just like in the upper world. The four "dark" crystals each correspond to an element just like the "light" ones do. The "light" crystals are Earth, Fire, Air, and Water, so the "dark" crystals correspond to the other four elements Ice, Bolt, Shadow, and Holy. I wanted to make it so that just like there is a fiend for each of the "light" elements, there is also a fiend for each of the "dark" elements. These new fiends will use the same graphics as the other fiends, but (ideally) with different color palettes.
So far I managed to make a new monster called Alichino who is supposed to be the Fiend of Ice. He uses Cagnazzo's graphics but I want him to be a different color (maybe a lighter blue and/or white if possible but I'm not picky right now; just getting a different color at all would be a good starting point). He is a different monster with different stats and pattern, he just uses Cagnazzo's graphics. He's working except that he's the same color as Cagnazzo no matter what I set the palette byte to (as chillyfeez mentioned, it must be ignored) and that when I try to tell him to change sprite so that he erects a wall of water, he instead erects a wall of glitches. Otherwise, his behaviour is perfectly fine, he just looks messed up when he changes form. He is the only monster in the battle; you don't fight him alongside Cagnazzo or any other monsters for that matter. It's a completely separate scenario.
Does that make what I'm asking for any clearer?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 30, 2015, 08:56:53 AM
Yes, quite clear. Unfortunately, what you're trying to do involves using a brand new Special size that you will have to create (because the palette of special size monsters is determined by byte 2 in the table referenced in the post I linked above). Doing so won't be too difficult, except that there are only two completely unused special sizes in the entire game, meaning you can only do this for two Underworld fiends before you have to get... creative... by which I mean destructive... by which I mean that you'll have to cannibalize some other monsters' special sizes in order to make this dream a reality. In the past, I've suggested that if somebody wanted to do something like this, they could steal a couple of Octomamm's forms, since 8 is a little excessive, and I imagine few people see all 8 forms in a normal playthrough anyway. but regardless, you'll have to make a concession or two somewhere. Aside from creating a new special size specifically for the new palette, you'll want all other graphical information to be identical to that of Kainazzo - same graphical pointer and aside from the palette same other four bytes in the special size detail table. The post I linked above should contain all of the info you need to do what you're trying to do (even if it does miss some information we're only discovering now... you don't really need that for what you're trying to accomplish), but again, let me know if you need clarification on anything.
Of course, the other "problem" with this proposition is that it's going to require some hacking outside of FF4kster. Nothing that will make your ROM incompatible (I know, I've done it several times now in my hack), but since I think you've said before that you're trying to make a hack that specifically showcases the editor's capabilities, this might be something you don't want to get into... or you might want to whip up a new version of FF4kster that allows a hacker to edit the special size table (I know, that makes it sound so easy, huh?). Anyway, that's all up to you. I'm working the closing shift tonight, so I won't be around most of the (EST) evening, but I'm home all weekend so if you have any questions, ask away.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 30, 2015, 11:46:27 AM
That explains what to do about the palette, but how do I fix the wall of glitches? Currently I haven't changed anything in that table so the monster should display Cagnazzo's exact graphics with his palette, right? And it does for his main form, but not his "gathering the water" form. I mean, Cagnazzo's displays normally but not Alichino's. It's using the exact same graphic pointer with the exact same size byte.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 30, 2015, 03:39:29 PM
Taking a quick break... Did you check to see if Kainazzo's transition uses one of those weird numbers with one or two of the upper two bits?
That's all I can think of now. If not, if you wanna send me a ROM (or patch) I'll take a look at it.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 31, 2015, 06:42:58 AM
Taking a quick break... Did you check to see if Kainazzo's transition uses one of those weird numbers with one or two of the upper two bits?
How do I check this? Which byte should I be looking at? In FF4kster, Cagnazzo's script just says "change sprite to 19" which is exactly what I put into Alichino's script...
That's all I can think of now. If not, if you wanna send me a ROM (or patch) I'll take a look at it.
Hm, I'd like the details of the game to be mostly a surprise and I'm pretty far in plotwise so I'd prefer to talk it out if possible... though if it comes down to it I don't mind sending you a copy. In the meantime I'm attaching a "before" and "after" screenshot. And yes, the "change sprite" process does cause him to change back to Cagnazzo's palette... it also seems to make porom throw her arms up and selecting Edge's magic menu to hang the game.
If you have some kind of sandbox rom handy, try this and let me know the results:
Replace the graphic pointer and size byte of a boss monster (on mine I replaced Q. Eblan) with Cagnazzo's template (he should be in the list of templates)
Change this monster's AI to contain an instruction telling him to change sprite to 19
Replace one of the underground Formations and put the new monster in there (I used Formation 502)
Set up a way to fight him in the underground and have at 'er
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 31, 2015, 08:15:26 AM
Taking a quick break... Did you check to see if Kainazzo's transition uses one of those weird numbers with one or two of the upper two bits?
How do I check this? Which byte should I be looking at? In FF4kster, Cagnazzo's script just says "change sprite to 19" which is exactly what I put into Alichino's script...
No, that's what I meant, so that's not the problem...
That's all I can think of now. If not, if you wanna send me a ROM (or patch) I'll take a look at it.
Hm, I'd like the details of the game to be mostly a surprise and I'm pretty far in plotwise so I'd prefer to talk it out if possible... though if it comes down to it I don't mind sending you a copy. In the meantime I'm attaching a "before" and "after" screenshot....
If you have some kind of sandbox rom handy, try this and let me know the results:
Replace the graphic pointer and size byte of a boss monster (on mine I replaced Q. Eblan) with Cagnazzo's template (he should be in the list of templates)
Change this monster's AI to contain an instruction telling him to change sprite to 19
Replace one of the underground Formations and put the new monster in there (I used Formation 502)
Set up a way to fight him in the underground and have at 'er
[/quote] That's cool, I can empathize 100% on that point. But please understand that that means it will take me longer to get to trying to figure this out. I do have some work on my own project I intend to do this weekend. However, this gives me pause...
Quote
And yes, the "change sprite" process does cause him to change back to Cagnazzo's palette... it also seems to make porom throw her arms up and selecting Edge's magic menu to hang the game.
This sounds precisely symptomatic of a bugged battle script. If you put two uncooperative actions together in a monster's AI without properly separating them (like, with "Wait"), then when the monster gets to that part of its script, the character in the middle will freeze in their "dodge" stance and the game will hang when you choose your next action. Also, are you remembering to make that second sprite transition back to Alichino's initial spriting instead of Kainazzo's? That might explain why he's reverting back to the wrong palette...
Anyway, I promise I will look deeper into this this weekend. I won't leave you hanging, but I need at least a few hours to devote to my own stuff before I start playing around with a blank ROM to try to match what you've done, k?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 31, 2015, 09:58:26 AM
That's cool, I can empathize 100% on that point. But please understand that that means it will take me longer to get to trying to figure this out. I do have some work on my own project I intend to do this weekend. However, this gives me pause...
No problem! By all means your own stuff takes priority. It'll be a long time before this game is ready anyway so take your time.
This sounds precisely symptomatic of a bugged battle script. If you put two uncooperative actions together in a monster's AI without properly separating them (like, with "Wait"), then when the monster gets to that part of its script, the character in the middle will freeze in their "dodge" stance and the game will hang when you choose your next action.
Aha, upon closer inspection I had a "do nothing" separating the sprite change from his next action instead of "wait". That fixed the game hanging issue but nothing else.
Also, are you remembering to make that second sprite transition back to Alichino's initial spriting instead of Kainazzo's? That might explain why he's reverting back to the wrong palette...
I don't know quite what you mean here, but his AI doesn't tell him to turn back. He's supposed to bring up the wall and leave it up (for now, til I get the hang of this). Trouble is, when he does this (change from normal to wall of water from), he changes from his funky palette to Cagnazzo's palette.
Anyway, I promise I will look deeper into this this weekend. I won't leave you hanging, but I need at least a few hours to devote to my own stuff before I start playing around with a blank ROM to try to match what you've done, k?
Of course; I'm in no rush. And thanks for your help!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 31, 2015, 02:58:26 PM
Got it! It has nothing to do with the monster data, and everything to do with the formation data. Now, which bits and/or bytes are actually affecting this particular situation I haven't figured out, but if you set the formation settings to:
Arrangement: 56 Battle Music: Fiend Floating: NO Prevent Flee: YES Boss Death: YES Prevent Losing: NO Versus Player: NO Auto Battle: NO Back Attack: NO Transparent: NO Mystery Byte: 0 Mystery Amount: 0 Mystery Flag 1: NO Mystery Flag 2: NO Mystery Flag 3: NO (Which, by the way, are exactly the data for Kainazzo's formation), that should make the wall of water appear correctly! :cycle:
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 31, 2015, 06:44:03 PM
That did the trick! Thanks Chillyfeez, you're a miracle worker! :childish:
He still changes to Cagnazzo's palette for some reason but at least the glitches are gone.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 31, 2015, 07:00:50 PM
That's because when you "change sprite," you're changing the special size (in this case, "change sprite 19" means "change to special size 0x93"). So you'll need to create yet another special size that is a mirror of Kainazzo with the wall up (but with Alichino's proper palette).
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on January 31, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
Aha, now I see what you mean about being destructive, haha! Thanks, I understand now!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on January 31, 2015, 07:49:35 PM
If I was trying to do something like what you're trying to do, I'd write some special-case palette code in... Something that says, for instance: "if (special size) palette = FE, then use palette from the monster graphical table instead." That way, you'd be able to use the same special size for Kainazzo and Alichino. Actually, that's not a bad idea. I might do that anyway.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 01, 2015, 07:11:09 AM
Indeed, however, you are correct that part of the purpose of this hack is to demonstrate the abilities of FF4kster, so I'm trying to stick to it as much as possible. That said, I have "cheated" a little already by applying some hack-facilitating and bugfix patches such as the protect/shell mod, long-range bugfix, and spell learning patch... but I'm trying to keep that to a minimum. I think I should be able to butcher Octomammoth forms without too much trouble.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 01, 2015, 09:03:29 AM
Yeah, I thought you might say that. Down the road I may do something like that for my own purposes. If I do, I'll put up a patch for general consumption.
What's the "spell learning patch?"
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 01, 2015, 10:48:04 AM
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 01, 2015, 01:36:06 PM
Ah, gotcha. I've seen Grimoire mention this peculiarity of spell learning before, but I don't think I realized Phoenix had whipped up a fix for it, and it's never really been an issue for me (yet).
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 03, 2015, 06:38:19 PM
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 03, 2015, 08:48:41 PM
That looked great! And rather challenging too, I noticed some interesting things here...
Obviously that you have the Twins, Edge and Dark Knight Cecil. A new command called "Bonk!" (Great in-character reference by the way) for Porom, Tornado being a damage spell instead of 0-9 HP. A set of Black Magic for Cecil and oddly a set of Black Magic for Edge, seemingly losing his unique Ninjutsu. Rosa has Charge instead of Aim. Dark Knight Cecil starts with the Chaos Blade (Oh wonderful FFT/XII Reference!) in this battle and can equip swords. Coral Sword from Easytype making an appearance.
The new spells are Awake (I imagine it does what it says), Demi (A very interesting idea for a spell, may I add. The routine was there all along after all.) Berserk as a Black Magic, Warp as a White Magic.
All in all I am impressed by what I'm seeing! I had thought from the sounds of it it would be a tech demo sort of deal, but it seems you are going all out. I can't wait for news for this!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 03, 2015, 09:04:29 PM
If Alichino is in the Underworld, then you must really be making the plot over if DK Cecil's there, too...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 04, 2015, 05:21:41 AM
Heehee I guess this video gives away more than I thought!
A new command called "Bonk!" (Great in-character reference by the way) for Porom,
Thanks, I thought so too! As you may notice, it's greyed out; that's because she needs a hammer equipped in order to use it (she's a white mage, so she can use hammers). It's a nice command but not very polished visually. I may be asking for help on that one down the road.
Rosa has Charge instead of Aim. Dark Knight Cecil starts with the Chaos Blade (Oh wonderful FFT/XII Reference!) in this battle and can equip swords. Coral Sword from Easytype making an appearance.
Since, as chillyfeez noted, you have DK for a lot longer in this one, he needed regular swords (and armor for that matter; he can equip f.ex. mythril/flame/ice/etc gear) to keep him interesting. You can only Dark Wave with a Dark Sword though. Also the Dark Swords and armor usually give him a Wis boost, helping with his magic. I also gave him a bit better HP progression... with his original stats he was having a hard time keeping up with Rosa for HP which seemed like it shouldn't be the case.
The new spells are Awake (I imagine it does what it says), Demi (A very interesting idea for a spell, may I add. The routine was there all along after all.) Berserk as a Black Magic, Warp as a White Magic.
Awake removes "temporary" statuses (sleep, charm, stun, etc), like a mini version of Esuna. Demi deals 1/4 target's max HP. It seems the only mechanic for current HP is relative to the caster, so I figured this made more sense; so it's more like the FFT demi than the usual demi. The way I reorganized the effect spells, White gets the "time" spells and Black gets what in FFT would be considered the "Yinyang" spells. So White gets Stop, Slow, Haste, Demi, Comet, stuff like that, whereas black gets Charm, Berserk, Blind, Mute, Drain, Osmose, etc. Rosa, if you notice, only gets the time white spells (in this she's an Archer / Time Mage) and DK Cecil only gets the yinyang black spells (so he'll never get f.ex. Fire 2, but he'll get Drain and even Bio if you level him up enough).
All in all I am impressed by what I'm seeing! I had thought from the sounds of it it would be a tech demo sort of deal, but it seems you are going all out. I can't wait for news for this!
Basically, the plot is unchanged for the first while in the beginning. Enough to fool someone into thinking it's more or less unchanged if they didn't already know any better. But then the outcome of a certain event gets flipped on its head, and this affects everything from that point on. Some dungeons and motifs are the same or similar but a lot of it is just totally new content from that point on. Don't worry, I've got lots of surprises up my sleeve.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 04, 2015, 07:57:09 AM
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 11:41:54 AM
Very nicely done! So I imagine in this that the two other Dark Crystals might be in the Feymarch and Tomra (Tomra's just a guess) I love the idea of a full compliment of Elemental Fiends that you're using and palette swapped Rubicante actually does look remarkably different.
I just did a little research, I had no idea Calcabrina was also from Dante's Inferno. And it looks like the remainder will bear just as much resemblance to their mythical counterparts than the original four fiends (Ruffle-haired does not mean Zombie, Turtle is not Dog, Tornado is not Beard (but I can at least see some of the symbolism there), Red... actually fits Rubicante well, the term Rabid does not). Good use of the same circle though. I wasn't aware they all came from the same part of Dante's Inferno.
I really like that you're delving in deeper into the theological aspects of FFIV, if just so, with the Summons (and mages?) referring to Bahamut as a God to be worshipped and having one of the fiends as a Prophet is a rather nice touch.
I see you're making good use of the expanded shields (or possibly got rid of others) for left handed equipment for Mages. A good way to make sure they can actually have Defense Multipliers short of hacking the game to look at something else.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 04, 2015, 12:19:33 PM
Very nicely done! So I imagine in this that the two other Dark Crystals might be in the Feymarch and Tomra (Tomra's just a guess) I love the idea of a full compliment of Elemental Fiends that you're using and palette swapped Rubicante actually does look remarkably different.
Thanks! Yeah, the sealed cave has been turned into the Ice Mines, where the Ice crystal keeps the ground water frozen and the Dwarves in Tomra mine it for water and refrigeration purposes; it's the only real source of actual water in the underworld. The Feymarch holds the Shadow Crystal, and the Dwarf Castle with Giott & co. have the Bolt crystal.
I just did a little research, I had no idea Calcabrina was also from Dante's Inferno. And it looks like the remainder will bear just as much resemblance to their mythical counterparts than the original four fiends (Ruffle-haired does not mean Zombie, Turtle is not Dog, Tornado is not Beard (but I can at least see some of the symbolism there), Red... actually fits Rubicante well, the term Rabid does not). Good use of the same circle though. I wasn't aware they all came from the same part of Dante's Inferno.
Yeah I didn't stress too much over which names to use, I just grabbed ones that tickled my fancy.
I really like that you're delving in deeper into the theological aspects of FFIV, if just so, with the Summons (and mages?) referring to Bahamut as a God to be worshipped and having one of the fiends as a Prophet is a rather nice touch.
Thanks. People often express confusion over the idea of a "Holy Fiend"... seems like a contradiction to a lot of people... so I tried to give it a more flavorful aspect of how you can have something evil still be "Holy"; a corrupt religious figure. Also he heals you just like Rubicant does. I tried to give each of them somewhat of a connection to their upper world counterparts other than their appearance.
I see you're making good use of the expanded shields (or possibly got rid of others) for left handed equipment for Mages. A good way to make sure they can actually have Defense Multipliers short of hacking the game to look at something else.
Definitely! Also gives some of the more mage-like characters pause when considering whether to use a two-handed weapon. You'll be sacrificing your ring slot, which means not only less defense, but many of the rings have interesting properties or stat bonuses. So while you can give Porom a hammer and have her dish out some decent physical damage, you may or may not want to do that. Likewise, Edward can put on a dagger instead of his harp, allowing him to use a ring and maybe survive a little better (seeing as he's still quite squishy).
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 01:22:19 PM
Those are all some really neat changes. Yeah, FFIV's Dwarven lands doesn't seem to have any water and judging from the reaction by one of the Dwarves to clear blue water I imagine they drink Magma, the idea you've made has a lot more sense to it. Also again, a Fire Area and an Ice Area are two places that are noticeably missing from FFIV so I'm glad to see you're rectifying that.
Since you mentioned two-handed weapons, will there be more available? Or are you using the slots available more judiciously?
Your idea for the Holy Fiend is great, while more story to go along with it (a subplot or something) would make it even more impactful, I understand too well the constraints of space all around.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on February 04, 2015, 05:36:26 PM
Those are all some really neat changes. Yeah, FFIV's Dwarven lands doesn't seem to have any water and judging from the reaction by one of the Dwarves to clear blue water I imagine they drink Magma, the idea you've made has a lot more sense to it. Also again, a Fire Area and an Ice Area are two places that are noticeably missing from FFIV so I'm glad to see you're rectifying that.
Doing the best I can. There are some graphical oddities in the Ice Mines currently though. They're using the Feymarch/Sylvan tileset with a blue/white palette but for some reason it looks fine in FF4kster but in the actual game the walls glow red. Also the palette of the battle background is green like the Sylvan cave... is there a way to change that but still have the Feymarch and Sylvan caves keep their colors?
Since you mentioned two-handed weapons, will there be more available? Or are you using the slots available more judiciously?
The Avenger and Ragnarok are two handed, as well as all hammers and harps. You need two hands to operate bows and arrows, so even though they're not in the range they still count for all practical purposes.
Your idea for the Holy Fiend is great, while more story to go along with it (a subplot or something) would make it even more impactful, I understand too well the constraints of space all around.
Right now the plot is basically going to just be what's needed to get the game playable and making sense from beginning to end. There are going to be a lot of optional scenarios near the end so I'll see what kind of space I have to work with afterwards in terms of fleshing things out more.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 04, 2015, 05:43:42 PM
Doing the best I can. There are some graphical oddities in the Ice Mines currently though. They're using the Feymarch/Sylvan tileset with a blue/white palette but for some reason it looks fine in FF4kster but in the actual game the walls glow red. Also the palette of the battle background is green like the Sylvan cave... is there a way to change that but still have the Feymarch and Sylvan caves keep their colors?
I'm afraid that there is not a way to change that, not easily anyhow The only solution is an unlikable one and that's to copy the Sylvan Cave background onto a background you don't wish to use (they're all used in the normal game, but Beach is probably the one least seen) since both the Sylvan Caves and the Feymarch are both still using their default looks both the normal background and the alternate background are being used by default in the game.
Quote
The Avenger and Ragnarok are two handed, as well as all hammers and harps. You need two hands to operate bows and arrows, so even though they're not in the range they still count for all practical purposes.
Ah right, that makes a good deal of sense all in all.
Quote
Right now the plot is basically going to just be what's needed to get the game playable and making sense from beginning to end. There are going to be a lot of optional scenarios near the end so I'll see what kind of space I have to work with afterwards in terms of fleshing things out more.
That's actually a very good way to go about it. It assures that you don't crash into a wall of lack of space, but instead are able to drive along smoothly and might be able to stop before you come up against that wall.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on February 04, 2015, 07:51:56 PM
Doing the best I can. There are some graphical oddities in the Ice Mines currently though. They're using the Feymarch/Sylvan tileset with a blue/white palette but for some reason it looks fine in FF4kster but in the actual game the walls glow red. Also the palette of the battle background is green like the Sylvan cave... is there a way to change that but still have the Feymarch and Sylvan caves keep their colors?
The tileset palette tricks are briefly described here: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1713.msg22009#msg22009 (http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1713.msg22009#msg22009). The glowing red is because the palette entry is reassigned continuously by the game from a color table elsewhere, and as such it disregards the tileset's palette for those color entries. With some assembly hacking I'm sure you could make it glow a different color, but I understand that is generally out of bounds for your project. Too bad, glowing a different color would be a neat effect.
Although, since that tileset has two palettes which are used by the game to control the glowing effects separately, IF you were willing to ditch one of them in the original game areas, then you could very easily modify the other one to the blue you want.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 04, 2015, 08:10:36 PM
Hey, avalanche... I have a quandary you might be able to help with, if you're so inclined...
Somehow, in my project, I seem to have accidentally altered the palette for the visual effect where the moon flies off away from earth (normally part of the ending, but in my hack it's part of the opening events) the visual effect was playing fine for most of the time I've been working on it, but I've been play testing the past week, and the change is noticeable. And horrible.
Now, I know that in most cases, the palettes the game uses are loaded into RAM at 00:0CDB, but I've toyed around with all of the data there to no avail. I've also looked through ALL of the rest of RAM and can't seem to find anything else that looks like a palette. I am therefore unable to trace back to the location in ROM of the palette(s) for this visual effect.
So... Any thoughts? If you happen to know where the palette is in ROM, well, that would be fantastic. If not, any idea where in RAM the elusive palette(s) might be loaded?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on February 04, 2015, 08:34:31 PM
Hey, avalanche... I have a quandary you might be able to help with, if you're so inclined...
Somehow, in my project, I seem to have accidentally altered the palette for the visual effect where the moon flies off away from earth (normally part of the ending, but in my hack it's part of the opening events) the visual effect was playing fine for most of the time I've been working on it, but I've been play testing the past week, and the change is noticeable. And horrible.
Now, I know that in most cases, the palettes the game uses are loaded into RAM at 00:0CDB, but I've toyed around with all of the data there to no avail. I've also looked through ALL of the rest of RAM and can't seem to find anything else that looks like a palette. I am therefore unable to trace back to the location in ROM of the palette(s) for this visual effect.
So... Any thoughts? If you happen to know where the palette is in ROM, well, that would be fantastic. If not, any idea where in RAM the elusive palette(s) might be loaded?
Well, not off hand.. Might be able to look into it with no guarantees :) Do you know which palettes are messed up? Is it one object in particular that is off?
:edit: Okay I got some info. For that scene, it looks like the entire CGRAM that holds all palette colors is filled from 13:D200 (ROM 9D400) which is normally 256 bytes, but copied twice back-to-back. Remember that scene has some Mode 7 going on too.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 04, 2015, 09:49:39 PM
The sun, the earth, and maybe one of the other planets are off. The moons, the stars (I think), space (the background) and (at least one of) the other planets are fine.
Any insight you can lend would be greatly appreciated. I can send you a copy of the ROM if it'd help. The visual effect is in the first minute of the opening.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on February 04, 2015, 09:52:19 PM
(I edited my post above before I saw your reply, just in case it doesn't show up as unread...)
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 04, 2015, 10:24:08 PM
Awesome. I did just put some custom code in the 13 block that could be easily relocated. Thought I was only using empty space but... Whatever. Hopefully this will solve the issue, but I won't be able to work on it tonight. I'll let you know. Thanks for your help!
:edit: Well, 9D400 is not the place I was thinking of where I put some custom code, but comparing it against a vanilla ROM, it definitely is altered. Doesn't look like ASM code, but doesn't entirely look like palettes either, which leads me to believe it must be something that I never intended to change in the first place. It's likely one of those things where my ROM is not fully compatible with FF4kster anymore, so sometimes the program changes things it's not supposed to change when I save. Guess it's time to make a new update to my "FF4kster Edits Correction" patch. :banonsmash:
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Madsiur on February 08, 2015, 08:14:54 AM
Whether the monster uses a lunar script or not is determined entirely by whether you are on the moon or not. So if you put lunar monsters in the Overworld, they will use entirely different battle sequences.
... Did that answer your question?
How do I know if a monster is on the moon? Is there a formation data somewhere that would have monsters IDs and map ID?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on February 08, 2015, 09:40:31 AM
If you're on the moon when the battle happens, then the monster is on the moon. The game actually looks at the current world identifier at (I think) 7E:1700 in RAM. It's much more simplistic than most people expect. That's why moon monsters automatically fight differently if you put them on earth.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 08, 2015, 09:54:33 AM
Whether the monster uses a lunar script or not is determined entirely by whether you are on the moon or not. So if you put lunar monsters in the Overworld, they will use entirely different battle sequences.
... Did that answer your question?
How do I know if a monster is on the moon? Is there a formation data somewhere that would have monsters IDs and map ID?
Not quite Chillyfeez, if you notice the Monsters on the Moon have normal AI setups in addition you can fight Slime and Tofu on Earth.
I tested this with Eukaryots and put them on Earth with a changed AI Setup (because the fight AI are basically the same from Moon to Earth) and they followed the changed AI setup from the Earth which the editor said they would.
There really aren't that many monsters on the moon and those that are only have their routines changed purely by index are in Bahamut's Cave and the Lunar Subterrane (We can see this in the Lunarian Lobby as well with the glitch "Treasure Monster" which proceeds to petrify itself) There is nothing signifying a monster should be Earth or Moon, you could put an Imp in the Lunar Subterrane and it's only problem would be its AI script would be askewed. I will take a look though. But generally every map after 346 (15A) except for the Lunar Passage maps would apply. For the record, Prokryot, Eurakryot, Red Worm, Moon Cell, Pudding, Grenade, despite being on the Surface and in the Lunar Passages do not count as Moon monsters. I'll do a quick ASM search and try to find out exactly why this is...
Found it! Much easier than I thought it would be to find, actually... breakpointed a Read on 1700 as battle occurs. I can see why you thought it worked that way Chillyfeez, but the game never checks if you are on the Moon, it just checks to see if you are in an area (03 is always area) so...
$00/874B AD 00 17 LDA $1700 [$00:1700] A:000D X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - Load A from World Index $00/874E C9 03 CMP #$03 A:0003 X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdizc - Is it an area? $00/8750 D0 23 BNE $23 [$8775] A:0003 X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdiZC - If not, branch past. $00/8752 AD 01 17 LDA $1701 [$00:1701] A:0003 X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdiZC - Load Map Index Byte $00/8755 F0 1E BEQ $1E [$8775] A:0001 X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdizC - If not Underworld/Moon areas branch past. $00/8757 AD 02 17 LDA $1702 [$00:1702] A:0001 X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdizC - Load Map Index Byte 2. $00/875A C9 5A CMP #$5A A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdizC - Is it Bahamut's Cave or higher? $00/875C 90 07 BCC $07 [$8765] A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdiZC - If not, branch past. $00/875E C9 5D CMP #$5D A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdiZC - Is it Glitch World or Higher? $00/8760 B0 03 BCS $03 [$8765] A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - If so, branch past. $00/8762 4C 6D 87 JMP $876D [$00:876D] A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - Jump to Rest of Routine ---------------------------------------------------------- $00/8765 C9 67 CMP #$67 A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - Is it Lunar Subterrane 1F or Higher? $00/8767 90 0C BCC $0C [$8775] A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - If not, branch past. $00/8769 C9 7F CMP #$7F A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - Is it (Final Map) Glitch World or less? (Not sure how necessary that is) $00/876B B0 08 BCS $08 [$8775] A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - If not, branch past. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $00/876D AD 01 18 LDA $1801 [$00:1801] A:005A X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - Load A from second byte of encounter data. $00/8770 09 80 ORA #$80 A:0001 X:0180 Y:0000 P:envMxdizc - Add 80 if applicable. $00/8772 8D 01 18 STA $1801 [$00:1801] A:0081 X:0180 Y:0000 P:eNvMxdizc - Store A in second byte of encounter data.
I appear to have been mistaken about the Treasure Chest Monster in the Lunar Lobby, that is actually a Red Giant as memory serves right, a Moon Monster who petrifies himself because of using default AI Routines.
What this also tells us is the game looks at encounters in the 0X80 range of encounters to activate the Moon AI.
I hope that was somewhat helpful.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: avalanche on February 08, 2015, 10:30:11 AM
Uh oh. Are there monsters that occur in both lunar-AI and non-lunar-AI places? Do they "work"?
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on February 08, 2015, 10:37:34 AM
In ordinary circumstances there is One and that's a Red Giant fought in the Lunarian Lobby on the "HP Restore" spot. It proceeds to petrify itself as memory serves me right because of incorrect indexes.
I got around this for several enemies in Combat Boost by giving them an "If in this Formation Index, use this AI" so they can fight differently, but effectively in the Overworld and Moon Areas.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on April 14, 2015, 07:31:27 PM
More previews! (I know I should probably make a new thread rather than continuing to hijack this one but meh...)
Ciriatto, Fiend of Shadow!
DK Cecil wasn't much help, but what do you expect, it's the shadow fiend. Porom pretty much carried the entire battle. Also count numbers are reversed in a back attack apparently... any easy fixes for that?
https://youtu.be/vfTbimQdT1s
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on April 14, 2015, 08:48:10 PM
What an intense battle! You've done a fantastic job with the balance it would seem. The fight starts out with a "do-or-die" situation that you then have to maneuver back from while Ciriatto is just relentless with his attacks! Did he have a weakness? Dark Knight Cecil with what looked like a Holy Sword only dealt less than 1000 while Edge was dealing nearly 2000 with his normal attack. You are right though that Porom won the day, Slow and Haste are powerful combinations, make no mistake! Interesting idea to make Pyro into a Holy based spell since it would make sense that one of the spells the Twins could use would be White Magic based as to preserve balance.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on April 15, 2015, 05:35:22 AM
What an intense battle! You've done a fantastic job with the balance it would seem. The fight starts out with a "do-or-die" situation that you then have to maneuver back from while Ciriatto is just relentless with his attacks!
Thanks! I want it to be a very scary/intimidating battle but still able to be won. Also I have a tendency to just speed through without grinding, especially in test plays like this. Even a few extra levels would probably make a huge difference.
Did he have a weakness? Dark Knight Cecil with what looked like a Holy Sword only dealt less than 1000 while Edge was dealing nearly 2000 with his normal attack.
He is weak to holy of course, but Cecil's sword that appeared holy is actually dark. In this hack, dark swords use a discolored version of the holy slash. Also the dark sword he's using is the Avenger (in this one, Avenger is dark and Defender is holy... seemed to make sense). I forgot to take it off before the fight; I actually thought I was going to lose because of it, but it actually turned out a lot better than I was expecting. He may not have much to do on his turn but he has diamond gear that can tank some of those physicals and were he alive and able to be targeted he could at least somewhat distract attention away from the hard hitters.
Also Edge's Ashura is holy elemental. The katanas just have the katana slash regardless of element.
You are right though that Porom won the day, Slow and Haste are powerful combinations, make no mistake! Interesting idea to make Pyro into a Holy based spell since it would make sense that one of the spells the Twins could use would be White Magic based as to preserve balance.
Yup. Blink is another diamond in the rough. As for TwinHoly, that's actually the replacement for Comet which is now a normal White/Time spell. The 75% twin technique is TwinFlar ( = Pyro). Also both twin spells deal caster's HP based damage (which I think seems to be using just Porom's HP stat); in any case, my reasoning behind that is to make sure it scales up well and is usable even in the end game, as well as, like you mention, one of the twins is white and the other black, so the techniques are damaging, but you need to stay healthy to get the most out of them.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: LordGarmonde on April 15, 2015, 08:45:45 AM
What an intense battle! You've done a fantastic job with the balance it would seem. The fight starts out with a "do-or-die" situation that you then have to maneuver back from while Ciriatto is just relentless with his attacks!
Thanks! I want it to be a very scary/intimidating battle but still able to be won. Also I have a tendency to just speed through without grinding, especially in test plays like this. Even a few extra levels would probably make a huge difference.
I'd say scary, intimidating, and AWESOME; way to go Pinkpuff! Those were some cool fights, and a nice reminder of the kind of things that could lie at the end of the hacking-rainbow. I also loved the Wonder Twins reference in the battle against Alichino - nice touch. :wink:
Yup. Blink is another diamond in the rough. As for TwinHoly, that's actually the replacement for Comet which is now a normal White/Time spell. The 75% twin technique is TwinFlar ( = Pyro). Also both twin spells deal caster's HP based damage (which I think seems to be using just Porom's HP stat); in any case, my reasoning behind that is to make sure it scales up well and is usable even in the end game, as well as, like you mention, one of the twins is white and the other black, so the techniques are damaging, but you need to stay healthy to get the most out of them.
I wonder why Porom? A few ideas that come to mind would be that she is 1st in the character roster. Probably not the reason, but it's what I thought of first. Maybe it's an agility issue? Does it change dependant on which character actually uses the Twin Command? :hmm:
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Bahamut ZERO on April 15, 2015, 01:26:15 PM
I think Palom's the one that starts the Tein command, since it uses his Wisdom stat to calculate the damage.
Madisuir, I wish you the best on your graphics edtor. It would certainly beat trying to do such editing with tile layer! Trying to edit monsters is... intimidating I guess would be the right word haha.
:whoa: Yeah, first post!
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on April 15, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Last but not least... Malacoda, Fiend of Bolt!
https://youtu.be/nSYgrg2AcQY
This one is probably not as exciting as the other fiend battles, but she can be relentless with those Bolt3s, and if Kain gets magnetized, the fight gets a lot harder. Though it does take place amidst an exciting plot scene, I didn't include it since most of it wouldn't make sense out of context anyway, and what did make sense would be a little too spoilery.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on April 15, 2015, 10:29:22 PM
I think Palom's the one that starts the Tein command, since it uses his Wisdom stat to calculate the damage.
Madisuir, I wish you the best on your graphics edtor. It would certainly beat trying to do such editing with tile layer! Trying to edit monsters is... intimidating I guess would be the right word haha.
:whoa: Yeah, first post!
Welcome to the forum Bahamut ZERO! I wrote up an entire disassembly on Twin it's in the already enormous topic of mine. The reason Porom's stats are considered is because she is in the Middle (1st) Slot, this creates the "dominant twin". Which ever Twin is in the 1st Slot is considered the Twin whose stats are used. Every other position has Porom as the "inferior twin" from a gameplay perspective this makes sense since both Pyro and Comet are Wisdom based.
As for this fight, yes... it seems you're a bit more leveled than you were previously. Was it intended that physical attacks would still deal that much damage to Malacoda? I should note that every defense rating in default FFIV is worthless. If you wanted to Actually increase an enemy's defense you should dip into Magic Defense values, though you probably already knew that. Then again I'm one for a difficult and challenging boss, I imagine she'll break out with Storm if she stays in her Tornado form, which would make it a bit more difficult.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on April 16, 2015, 04:31:21 AM
As for this fight, yes... it seems you're a bit more leveled than you were previously. Was it intended that physical attacks would still deal that much damage to Malacoda? I should note that every defense rating in default FFIV is worthless. If you wanted to Actually increase an enemy's defense you should dip into Magic Defense values, though you probably already knew that. Then again I'm one for a difficult and challenging boss, I imagine she'll break out with Storm if she stays in her Tornado form, which would make it a bit more difficult.
It's the kind of battle where timing and luck play a bigger facter than usual. If you wait too long on Kain's Jump or if he somehow can't, like if he's defeated (unlikely, as this iteration of his actor starts with the bolt-resistant diamond gear, and is very likely to be in back row due to replacing Rosa) or, more likely, magnetized, Malacoda will continue to spam Bolt3 split, Magnet, and Fight. If Kain is fine though you shouldn't have too much trouble. It's ok though, I don't want to put a particularly difficult/tricky battle in the middle of a long plot scene like that because it would be annoying for a less experienced player to have to keep watching through the scene over and over.
Porom getting magnetized can also throw a sizable monkey wrench into the ointment.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on May 03, 2015, 06:01:25 PM
I managed to turn the "four fiends" battle into the "eight fiends" battle! There is an odd glitch with Ciriatto's targeting cursor and damage numbers, but strangely this only happens on him and not any of the other fiends. Another glitch is that Barbariccia (and possibly Malacoda, I haven't fully tested it) should be weak to air, making them immune to quake attacks, but I was able to hit her with Titan (it was in a different run than the one I recorded). If anyone has any idea what could be causing these oddities and/or has ideas for how to fix them, please let me know.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Grimoire LD on May 03, 2015, 07:15:23 PM
Wha- Tellah?! At the end game?! Your patch may have gotten even more awesome, if such a thing were possible!
Galaxy... is that Galaxy Stop from FFT? Stop on all foes? And what does Comet look like? (Probably... like Comet... right.) Harm... right... I do need to make that custom routine for you still. Question is, where would you want it, and what would it replace?
Hmm, for "Bird" I would suggest "Roc" it's... a slight pun, but that's also what the enemy's were called in FFII as I recall.
Magic Gloves, hmm? Interesting to see what is normally "gauntlet" symbols equipped to Tellah there.
Right... the Break Blade... that's not just a rename of the Stone Blade is it? If so that has a game breaking glitch associated with it. If it is literally Break, afflicting Petrify on hit then there's no worry.
Apollo Harp, I am always glad to see more Harps added to FFIV for Edward!
Whoa! This is an enormous spoiler! I love it, but it's such a head-turner to those who know FFIV like the back of their hand.
That moment when Golbez revives all of the Eight Fiends is awesome! Very well set up!
Chakra... ahem... right. I'll get to that too. Again though I would need to know what you want replaced for those requests. In a hack that doesn't move pointers around I can't utilize any empty table space because, there is very little or none (there is two blank ones for Commands though. Cid's "Crash the Game" skill and a blank one that closes out the table and one copy in Spell Routines which is a copy of Count's Pointer.)
When it comes to my hack I'm now in the battle-programming section of it, so once I finish with the Dark Knight/Paladin switch in-battle for Bahamut ZERO I can get to your requests.
I have noticed that every other team member you have here is those who believe to have died when Leviathan attacked or Actually died... were these four revived somehow? I noticed their absence in other videos, but I wasn't sure whether it was just coincidence or not.
Hmm, looks like Rubicante's portion could use a little bit more Spell Power, since he dealt only 11-50 damage with a full party Fire2.
Wait, wait...! Your Rydia has "Help!" as well?! Haha! I was making the new commands for her base class and one is a skill that she can only use when in Critical that would call a random Summon and could only be used once per battle. I imagine yours may be what became of Recall though? Random chance to call a random Summon at it's proper MP Cost?
(Though if you had mentioned it before I likely subconsciously stole the idea, eh heh)
Ouch, Tellah has less MP in this than he does in the original! I guess that's the price paid for having access to all of both magics.
Ah you gave Edward an entire Bard skillset, very nice.
Is Bio now Dark Elemental? It dealt a ton of damage to the Holy Elemental Fiend.
Cagnazzo packs a bit of a punch! 500-700 damage per attack on the back row!
A Fairy Harp, hmm? Is that in reference to him saying that he learned a tune that could drive off evil fairies?
Malacoda seems so much more difficult here, likely because of the randomness of her targets and the power of that Bolt 3. Very nicely done.
Wow. Globe 199. This girl doesn't fool around in this second round.
Ah just read the "not your final party, quests will decide your final party" layout. So it was just a coincidence, heh.
That was an amazing and intense battle! Eight forms to fight through really ups the ante and they aren't slouches either.
Now as for those glitches... I know nothing about graphics so maybe Chillyfeez knows what is happening there.
But applying weakness to Wind *In Battle* does not give the enemy Float. DeathLike2 took notice of this long ago that enemy's that are summoned into battle that have weakness to air do not have the float status. An easy solution is to chain Float into their attack chains, but removing the Float Spell would be tricky, unless you have a free slot left that would be a dummy spell that would only Purely remove Float and chain this invisible Float-Dispel into their Attack Patterns.
I think the name "Unprecedented Crisis" is a really strong name from what I've seen of this mod.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on May 03, 2015, 08:46:03 PM
The first thing I'd look at is, what size (actual, rectangular size) do you have set for ciriatto? It almost looks like maybe the height is something like 25 instead of the 8 or whatever that it should be. It would be possible to fill only the top portion of that space and the rest with empty space, which would lead to that weirdness... But... If you don't get that in the regular ciriatto battle, then that wouldn't be it, I guess. Can't really think of any other possible cause, though.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on May 04, 2015, 06:10:28 AM
Wha- Tellah?! At the end game?! Your patch may have gotten even more awesome, if such a thing were possible!
Ouch, Tellah has less MP in this than he does in the original! I guess that's the price paid for having access to all of both magics.
:childish: Thanks! Tellah is gonna be quite unique in this actually. Spoilers ahead for game mechanics (but not story):
He actually gains MP. His MP starts very low (45 at his initial Lv 20 in the watery cave) and gains very slowly at first. Once he gets his full spell set, this somewhat equates to him "learning" spells by gaining enough MP to cast them. Once he gets to a certain point level-wise though, his MP growth starts accellerating and surpasses even the regular mages so that essentially he gradually switches from becoming a one-hit wonder, blasting out powerful spells you don't normally have access to but only seldomly, to being an MP battery; by that point your regular mages probably have all the spells they're going to learn, and Tellah's magic stats have somewhat to be desired relative to them, so he'll make up for it by having a ginormous MP pool.
And what does Comet look like? (Probably... like Comet... right.)
Draghinazzo casts it during the battle so you can see it there, but yeah it looks like the twin comet (which has been replaced with TwinHoly, a palette-swapped version of TwinFlar / Pyro)
Harm... right... I do need to make that custom routine for you still. Question is, where would you want it, and what would it replace?
For now I used the count-replacing hack you posted. In an ideal world, I'm not sure, I'll have to think about it. If possible, "something happens to adult rydia" would be great to replace, as that battle doesn't quite pan out the same in this version, so I don't need anyone joining mid-battle.
Hmm, for "Bird" I would suggest "Roc" it's... a slight pun, but that's also what the enemy's were called in FFII as I recall.
There's "Roc Baby" which uses the same sprite but a different palette. It's supposed to be a Cockatrice but I couldn't think of a way to condense that into five letters without it sounding dirty. I might go with Roc, but Roc is going to be a large and in-charge monster in mine (I hope) so it might be a little misleading, so I may also stick with just Bird.
Right... the Break Blade... that's not just a rename of the Stone Blade is it? If so that has a game breaking glitch associated with it. If it is literally Break, afflicting Petrify on hit then there's no worry.
What's the difference between those two? I redid the weapons from scratch, so I have no idea what used to be where other than the Avenger. Currently the Break Blade is a sword that applies petrify as it's "hit-add status". What's the glitch? And is it associated with a particular weapon index, or with some combination of settings?
Whoa! This is an enormous spoiler! I love it, but it's such a head-turner to those who know FFIV like the back of their hand.
One of the themes of this hack is reversal, so there are a lot of points where, as an FF4 veteran, something you expect to happen either happens backwards, or in a strange way you didn't expect, or simply fails to happen altogether. Anyway it shouldn't be too much longer now. All I have left to write in terms of new scenes is the final battle and the ending, which, thanks to your amazing plot-flag-branching instruction will hopefully be customized to your final party! Different ending each playthrough (somewhat)!
That moment when Golbez revives all of the Eight Fiends is awesome! Very well set up!
Thanks! FF4 veterans seeing this scene probably expect to see FuSoYa appear after that "Welcome!", but then, SURPRISE! Also some of the fiends say things based on who's in your party (e.g. Barbariccia says something to Rosa, Rubicante talks to Edge, etc.)
Chakra... ahem... right. I'll get to that too. Again though I would need to know what you want replaced for those requests. In a hack that doesn't move pointers around I can't utilize any empty table space because, there is very little or none (there is two blank ones for Commands though. Cid's "Crash the Game" skill and a blank one that closes out the table and one copy in Spell Routines which is a copy of Count's Pointer.)
When it comes to my hack I'm now in the battle-programming section of it, so once I finish with the Dark Knight/Paladin switch in-battle for Bahamut ZERO I can get to your requests.
Don't sweat it. Those command and spell ideas are just that; ideas. If you happen to get around to figuring them out and posting them before I release the hack, great. Otherwise, they're still fully functional, even if they don't quite do what I would have them do in an ideal world. Yang's Chakra command currently heals himself for 1/3 his current HP. He can use it to keep himself going if he's already healthy, but he can't save himself from the brink of death.
I have noticed that every other team member you have here is those who believe to have died when Leviathan attacked or Actually died... were these four revived somehow? I noticed their absence in other videos, but I wasn't sure whether it was just coincidence or not.
All will become clear when you play the game :wink:
Hmm, looks like Rubicante's portion could use a little bit more Spell Power, since he dealt only 11-50 damage with a full party Fire2.
He builds up to Glare, so... I think it's probably ok as is. Worst comes to worst he's only the second form out of eight, so if he gives you a brief healing break it won't last long. Especially since next up is Ciriatto and his infamous Angel Song.
Wait, wait...! Your Rydia has "Help!" as well?! Haha! I was making the new commands for her base class and one is a skill that she can only use when in Critical that would call a random Summon and could only be used once per battle. I imagine yours may be what became of Recall though? Random chance to call a random Summon at it's proper MP Cost?
(Though if you had mentioned it before I likely subconsciously stole the idea, eh heh)
My "Help!" is Recall reskinned. She doesn't need to be in Critical to use it, but it does cost MP. So it gives her access to most of the summons, but the main drawback in the early game is having the MP, and the main drawback later on is the randomness of the outcome and the likelihood that you'll just use a summon spell you already knew. I got the idea when FF4kster was still a wee little baby so I don't think I got the idea from you. But I also don't recall posting anything about it, so it's entirely possible that we both got the same kind of idea independently.
Ah you gave Edward an entire Bard skillset, very nice.
"Ninja" was renamed to "Sing" and Edge instead just has "Black". The songs are like spells except that they don't cost MP, they just have high charge times (you have to wait for him to sing the whole song to get the effect from it ^_^).
A Fairy Harp, hmm? Is that in reference to him saying that he learned a tune that could drive off evil fairies?
It's more based on the Fairy Claw. There are no claws in this version (you may notice Yang is completely unarmed in the equip screen), to make room for other more interesting weapons for characters who, in the original, were not meant to rejoin. Thus, Edward has a harp that's good vs. Giants, so, Fairy Harp.
Malacoda seems so much more difficult here, likely because of the randomness of her targets and the power of that Bolt 3. Very nicely done.
Wow. Globe 199. This girl doesn't fool around in this second round.
Well she's the last one, so, if you beat her that's it. She's desperate to pull out all the stops. Also it's kinda funny seeing Globe199 deal not 9999 damage.
Ah just read the "not your final party, quests will decide your final party" layout. So it was just a coincidence, heh.
This is the main crux of the hack, at least for me. It's a sort of "World of Ruin"-style setup where the last third or so of the game gives you more or less complete freedom of transport and you can go around and do all sorts of sidequests in whatever order you wish, many of which will affect your party setup if they can.
Now as for those glitches... I know nothing about graphics so maybe Chillyfeez knows what is happening there.
But applying weakness to Wind *In Battle* does not give the enemy Float. DeathLike2 took notice of this long ago that enemy's that are summoned into battle that have weakness to air do not have the float status. An easy solution is to chain Float into their attack chains, but removing the Float Spell would be tricky, unless you have a free slot left that would be a dummy spell that would only Purely remove Float and chain this invisible Float-Dispel into their Attack Patterns.
Would Dispel do it on its own? Or is the problem there that you would see Dispel's name and graphic show up making it seem like the monster is deliberately hindering itself? If worst came to worst, I could change the order so that both the floaters are last... Though it would be kinda lame seeing the monster just change palette to turn into the next form.
I think the name "Unprecedented Crisis" is a really strong name from what I've seen of this mod.
Thanks! For veterans of the original, it evokes the words of the King of Fabul just before the ship scene, and there are a variety of reasons why I found that particularly appropriate, which should be obvious when you play it.
The first thing I'd look at is, what size (actual, rectangular size) do you have set for ciriatto? It almost looks like maybe the height is something like 25 instead of the 8 or whatever that it should be. It would be possible to fill only the top portion of that space and the rest with empty space, which would lead to that weirdness... But... If you don't get that in the regular ciriatto battle, then that wouldn't be it, I guess. Can't really think of any other possible cause, though.
This glitch does not happen in the regular Ciriatto battle. All of his "special size" details were copied exactly from Scarmiglione except for his palette. Scarmiglione has his same "special size" for this battle as he does for his "back attack" battle, and so does Ciriatto. At first I thought maybe there was some kind of special code looking for the elements battle, but this battle is using a completely different formation index (it has to, since it's on the moon and the original was on the overworld). Incidentally I also tried using the original formation and testing it on the overworld and the exact same glitch appears.
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on May 04, 2015, 08:36:06 AM
Just to confirm what I already know... "Fiends" is just one monster, right? (As an aside, I just realized how silly the "Fiends" battle is in context, and it's not your hack, this comes directly from ffiv... Rubicant just finished saying "you showed me the power of teamwork," and then the Fiends proceed to challenge you one-at-a-time)
By the way, is FF4kster doing something wrong with magic list names in the menu? Rydia's magic seems to be called "Sumn u."
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on May 04, 2015, 10:37:34 AM
Just to confirm what I already know... "Fiends" is just one monster, right?
Actually, no. The first four (Earth/Scarmiglione, Fire/Rubicante, Dark/Ciriatto, and Holy/Draghinazzo) are one monster and the rest are another monster.
(As an aside, I just realized how silly the "Fiends" battle is in context, and it's not your hack, this comes directly from ffiv... Rubicant just finished saying "you showed me the power of teamwork," and then the Fiends proceed to challenge you one-at-a-time)
By the way, is FF4kster doing something wrong with magic list names in the menu? Rydia's magic seems to be called "Sumn u."
I noticed that too, I'm not sure what's going on there. I think what happened is I had it as "Summn" but then there were issued with it being too long (it was expecting something four letters long) so I changed it back to "Sumn" but now there's still some graphical artifacts...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on May 04, 2015, 11:36:33 AM
OK, yeah, that's because the "fifth letter" in "Call" isn't a blank space. Compare a vanilla ROM with your hack to see what that byte should be. The byte after that is whatever translates in hex to "u," and will show up as such if that fifth letter is not... Whatever it's supposed to be. I actually took advantage of that in TfW, changing "C-a-l-l-(whatever it is)" into "(space)-J-u-t-s" and it appears as "Justsu."
Regarding the Ciriatto thing... I wonder if the multiple enemies may somehow be coming into play... Maybe look at the monster arrangement ID (the one that determines where on the screen monsters are placed). I'm wondering if, since this arrangement normally assumes just one monster, it may be getting confused about the "proper location" of the second monster. Normally, this has no effect at all on special-sized monsters, but, hey, stranger things have happened. Maybe try using the arrangement data used by Trap Doors, where one monster appears exactly as the first one disappears.
Worth a shot anyhow...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: Pinkpuff on May 04, 2015, 12:13:29 PM
Regarding the Ciriatto thing... I wonder if the multiple enemies may somehow be coming into play... Maybe look at the monster arrangement ID (the one that determines where on the screen monsters are placed). I'm wondering if, since this arrangement normally assumes just one monster, it may be getting confused about the "proper location" of the second monster. Normally, this has no effect at all on special-sized monsters, but, hey, stranger things have happened. Maybe try using the arrangement data used by Trap Doors, where one monster appears exactly as the first one disappears.
Worth a shot anyhow...
Er, but, the "Elements" battle in the original is two monsters as well; the first is Scarmiglione and Rubicante, the other is Cagnazzo and Barbariccia...
Title: Re: Graphics info
Post by: chillyfeez on May 04, 2015, 03:10:26 PM
Oh, sorry, was not aware. Well, that's all my ideas...
When you're finally ready to release the patch to the world, I'll take a look and see what I can see, but without looking under the hood, I can only take guesses... Based apparently off of information about which I am already incorrect =P