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Topics - Deathlike2

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166
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / FF2 Battle Script That's Different Than FF4
« on: June 02, 2008, 04:07:57 PM »
Believe it or not, most people have an ill-concieved notion that FF2's battle script is radically different than FF4 (I'll have a separate thread on FF4ET's battle scripts, just to point it out), but that's simply not the case. However, there is only one script that I know of that is actually different than the original game.

Check out the Last Arm's battle script:

FF2 and FF4ET:

Battle script 0x6F:
Code: [Select]
Always
    Cast Search ($90)
    (End of Turn)
    Cast Magnet ($81)
    (End of Turn)
    Cast Search ($90)
    (End of Turn)
    Cast Beam ($94)

Counter script 0xFB:
Code: [Select]
If Receives a Damage Counter
    Battle Message $76
    Cast Slap ($63)

Note: The parsed counter script is wrong.

It's more like this:
If current HP is lower than 1/8 (aka 2/16) of MaxHP, then cast Fission (this suicide attack that hits all targets equally the amount of HP left). In FF4A, Fission is changed to more of a single targeted Explode attack (someone fucking neutered this for some stupid reason). Amazing eh?

FF4 has it slightly different.

FF4:

Battle script 0x6F:
Code: [Select]
Always
    Cast タ-ゲッティング ($90)
    (End of Turn)
    Cast でんじば ($81)

Counter script 0xFB:
Code: [Select]
If Receives a Damage Counter
    Battle Message $76
    Cast ひらてうち ($63)

Note: The counter script is the same as the original (still parsed wrong, so it's the same reaction).

The only difference is the attack script, which doesn't do the extra targeting and Beam attack.

It's minor, and that's the only change AFAIK. In any case, 99% of the battle code is the same.

167
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Yang's Battle Script
« on: June 01, 2008, 11:49:58 PM »
As pointed out in the Japanese site link, part of Yang's battle script is not properly executed.

His script looks like this... (according to the editor)

Battle script 0xA8:
Code: [Select]
Always
    Battle Message $E
    Target Kain 
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Battle Message $F
    Kick
    (End of Turn)
    Battle Message $10
    Target Kain 
    Fight
    (End of Turn)
    Battle Message $11
    Kick
    $F3 to $F8 -  $81

Counter script: 0xA9
Code: [Select]
( $2 $0 $0 $1 )
If Attacked by Tellah
    Battle Message $12
    Cast Dummy ($AE)

This script is parsed wrong, but here's the jist of what it is supposed to do:

Battle Script:

While targeting Cecil, display message 0xE and attack him.
Display message 0xF, then attack with Kick.
While targeting Cecil, display message 0x10 and attack him.
Display message 0x11, then attack with Kick.
Repeat sequence

Counter Script:

When Cecil deals physical damage, there is a random chance to execute the following script... which is to display message 0x12 and end the battle (by using spell 0xAE).

Note the bold.. this is never executed on a normal run. There's a simple reason. This was intended for Dark Knight Cecil.. not Paladin Cecil as the battle script is never normally executed. However, there's a lot more happening here than meets the eye.

1) Yang appears to attack with one of Cecil's Dark Blades. Really, I'm not kidding.

2) The random battle ending falls along the same lines as the random Lightning killing Odin sequence. There's a low chance of it occuring (less than 10% I suspect). Note that this sequence expects Paladin Cecil's physical attacks as part of it.. which is ironic, given the battle script was meant to focus on Dark Knight Cecil.

Here are some random thoughts and opinions to this..

1) This was intended to be part of  some auto-battle sequence. It was never finished since Yang attacks Cecil as part of the battle script.

2) Characters attacking with a weapon as an enemy was something never truly finished. Obviously Yang attacking with Cecil's Dark Blades was never meant to happen. Some hacking to change this would be interesting, but it would need a lot more research. This is why this section was never executed.. it would looked rather fucked up.

3) Yang was meant to be encountered in a different situation.. which is not what the current finished product happens to be. For all I know, you were meant to battle him and he meant to attack Cecil intentionally. Perhaps the demo picture with Dark Knight Cecil, Kain, Yang, Rosa, and Young Rydia may have had its origins be validated.

From the original thread (which will be killed in due time) - http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=929937&topic=42923762

Quote
i have a copy of the original final fantasy 4j that i bought a few years ago, kind of on a whim. this being the most active ff2/ff4 forum, i thought it may be the best place to ask.

let me post the pictures:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/bond697/photo.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/bond697/photo2.jpg

now, they're blurry because i took them with my iphone(sadly, no scanner).

let me explain what is going on in case you can't make them out. they are of the same image on the original ff4j box. i can't remember the monsters' names, but i can describe them. one is a green "gargoyle" with wings, and there are 2 "birds", maybe "eagles"? as i said, i can't recall the names. anyway, the odd part is that they're fighting in the castle setting, like when you defend the castle with yang, edward/gilbert, and cecil. in the picture, it seems that rydia is casting fire(2?) on an eagle creature. here is your party with their hp levels:

->(back row)

kain 550/550
->rydia 307/310
dk. cecil 599/600
->rosa 453/454
yang 860/860

i don't think that this scenario happens at all in the game. if it does, could someone please let me know where? it's a neat little look at what might have been, i suppose.

i've looked through the manual, but haven't found any other out of the ordinary pics like this. if i can get access to a scanner, i'll get a better couple of pictures.

168
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Useful Links
« on: June 01, 2008, 10:18:58 PM »
Here's a list of easy-to-reference links (for my own benefit anyways):

http://rpgd.emulationworld.com/ballz/el/bab-il/index.html - Tower of Bab-il Docs
http://s-endo.skr.jp/ff_analyzer.html - Japanese site with a lot of SNES FF info.
http://www.blitzkrieginnovations.net/ff2us_hacking_doc-v3.html - JCE's page
http://pages.videotron.com/zyrthofr/ - zyrthofar's editor
http://www.finalfantasyiv.net/emulation/documents/itemcompendium.xls - Paladin's FF4 data sheet
http://entroper.no-ip.org/TheBatcave/FFRev2.xls - Entroper's FF4A data, seems to be down at the moment
http://entroper.no-ip.org/TheBatcave/FFRev2(2).xls - More of Entroper's FF4A data, same as above

I'll add more when there is more found or available.

169
Game Modification Station / FF4 - Random Ideas on Improving 2-Handed Weapons
« on: May 30, 2008, 04:17:12 PM »
I hadn't gotten around to writing this, but if anyone have considered improving 2-Handed Weapons (particularly Axes), then here are some ideas you may want to play with.

Note: I will use the axe as a reference, for the sake of pointing out that the Poison and Rune Axe suck, relatively speaking.


1) Increase defense - Make it so that say 1/8 of the axe's attack power increases the defense of the character. This tends to increase the defense power of the character enough to take less damage, but doesn't help if you go full heavy armor (think of Kain or Cid, since Cecil has lots of Wizard armor alternatives). The defensive impact is minimal late game though since the defense multiplier and evade become more important. Compared to shields, shields provide mostly evade than defense, so that's the unique swap there. Note that the strongest possible axe you can create will increase up to 31 defense, which does have a nice impact there (it's good if you don't plan or don't want to use defensive race properties in the armor). You will still be taking damage though...

Edit: Changed 1/4 to 1/8 instead.

2) Increase evade - Make it so that say 1/4 of the axe's hit rate increases the evade of the character. This helps a lot when shields are the greatest factors in increasing defense via evade. The highest you can get here is 24% (or maybe more, but someone would have to make this code first to test it out)), which is far less than the best shield in this game (FF4, not FF4A) can provide (40% evade for the Crystal Shield), but still not be that overpowering. Note that the hit rate does have to be reasonably high or it will suck. The Hand Axe is not a good weapon if that was available when you have Cid, only because its pathetic hit rate will do below average damage for Cid vs his very accurate hammers. Trading evade for an underpowered Cid is a terrible option IMO. If the evade bonus can go up to 63% evade, there can be problem balancing this...

3) Increase defense multiplier... - Make it so that the axe is classified as a shield, so the defensive multiplier bonus of level/16 is applied. This is a bit more effective than increasing defense, although it has the same evade constraint problem. I've found that the Heroine Robe/Minerva Bustier has gives Rosa+Rydia near physical immunity in the Lunar Subterrain late game (particularly if you are stat boosting post level 70). Even if they have a high defense multiplier, it doesn't counter the low evade.. which is what the Heroine Robe provides (40% evade is not something to scoff at). This seems like a safer/the safest bet to change...

Here's a brief review/overview of having a 2 handed weapon vs a weapon+shield combo...

1) Lowered defense - A shield provides some semblence of defense, but not a lot in comparison to the other details.

2) No shield multiplier bonus - this is what the shield thrives on to be very useful. In the late game, this becomes very huge in terms of bonuses.

3) Lowered evade - The evade is where the important calculations are at. Increasing this helps more significantly in conjunction with a high defense multiplier which has the greatest impact of reducing overall intake of damage.

Standard counters to fixing this (assuming you are not trying out my ideas)

1) Increase Agility - Since the defense multiplier is derived from this stat, increasing this will have the greatest impact... +15 to Agility will nearly guarantee a 2x defense multiplier bonus. However, this also makes the character go significantly faster, and that may need to be accounted for in monster balance. Note that late game that Agility can be maxed by most characters...

2) Increase Vitality/Stamina - Given that defense is worsened, you can attempt to compensate it here. The best case you can do this is to boost +15 to it and gain +7 or +8 defense, which isn't really significant, though it can counter only the defense loss that a shield provides (just not the multiplier or evade though). This has minimal impact overall, although most characters don't ever really max this stat out (except for Cecil) because Agility has a far greater impact in this game.

Ok, thoughts, constructive criticism, and mentioning stuff I didn't consider is appreciated.

170
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Life2 and The Flan/Pudding Phenomenon
« on: May 25, 2008, 06:43:11 PM »
I bumped the life trick thread since there are other relevent details to it (it was detailed in BSiron's FAQ), but for the most part there are some interesting notes with that. Refer to this thread: http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=151.0

1) Even though Break/Stone kills the enemy, it's current status is retained and thus Life2 refuses to work.

2) Most enemies tend to continue their battle script, but they tend to "counter" you with their spell counter script upon revival.

3) My only guess is to why Life2 works is that there is no discernable equivalent enemy Vitality/Stamina stat to derive the HP for the enemy revival, thus it failing hard. Life2 revives the enemy to maximum HP (though, it is untested at higher HP threasholds...)

4) It may simply be the high defense at work, but reviving Flan/Pudding monsters seem to prevent even high physical powered attacks (including Jump)  to do any decent damage on the revived monster. Something goes screwy in the battle engine to keep the monster becoming nearly invulnerable to physical attacks. Killing another monster or kill the revived pudding/flan monster with magic will fix this behavior.

5) Note that Life2 works different from the monster's "Call/Summon/Alert", since monsters generated by the latter tends to have all statuses removed, whereas Life2 does not do that (which make sense, but it's an interesting distinction worth noting). So, you can see revived toad, piggy, and/or small monsters be revived by this method... keeping them in a continuously harmless state.


I can't think of anything else off the top of my head, but I'm sure this may be helpful somehow.

171
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Reflect+Item Versions
« on: May 13, 2008, 11:12:40 AM »
Other than the Barrier status that the Moon Curtain does, does the game adhere to the value given to the Curtain Items? I presume it sets or adds to a timer...

Reflect/Wall spell = 0? (I wonder if that is powered by the Will Power/Spirit of the character)
Light Curtain = 10
Moon/Lunar Curtain = 20

172
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Writing A Magic Guide
« on: May 11, 2008, 01:40:44 PM »
I've been putting off writing a FAQ for this game, so I figure that I should do it in pieces to make life easier (so I'd actually write it).

Other than making sure I give credit to everyone involved, is there anything in particular that should be mentioned that hasn't been written about in this forum already?

Edit: Also, are there any questions (dumb or whatnot) that you think should be included in the FAQ?

 :edit:
Gamefaqs link: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/file/588330/53021

173
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / A Look Into Cagnazzo...
« on: May 05, 2008, 01:11:57 PM »
I was interested in a Gamefaqs post about a "problem" with hitting Cagnazzo. It made me look further into its battle script..

It's not too difficult a script, but the monster has multiple stages... note, I will not add in the "do nothings", because it's irrelevent to my point.

Initial Mode:
Cagnazzo attacks characters once  - (not useful)
Change into "Water Form"

While in "Water Form":
Display message == "Water is gathering" or whatever
Change weakness to Lightning (while under this state)
Cast Wave on enemy (1/25 of Caster's HP)
Cast Haste on self
Repeat "Water Form" script
If hit by a Lightning magic attack while under "Water Mode", goto Initial Mode
Also Display message == "Lightning neutralizes water" or whatever

At any time, current HP < 700 (not sure if that's an exact number) Always Change To "Shell Mode":
Display message = "Monster hides in shell" or whatever
Set Defense to 3 (while under this state) - Edit: Yes, that's really 3, which is not a significant increase.
Cast Remedy/Heal/Restore (different names for the same spell) - (heals 1/10 of Caster's Max HP)
Repeat script while current HP < 700
Else Change Into "Water Form"

This defense change never occurs... it seems like the FF4A Euro version has this fixed. It may be worth looking into further.

174
Gaming Discussion / FF4 - Analyzing Underappreciated Magic
« on: April 30, 2008, 11:43:24 PM »
I just wanted to take a quick perspective of magic that perhaps has been ignored (quite a bit by me) and maybe some of you can suggest a few others...

There are a number of underrated spells that arguably underrated and perhaps if one gives proper attention to them, maybe it will improve balance in the next FF4 hack.

The Summons (other than the Mist Dragon) given to Rydia when she comes back are really really underappreciated. Particularly when Rydia learns the level 3 elementals, people think these summons are worthless, but they really aren't. Here's a quick look at these summons, and the spells they compete against.

Summons: Shiva/Ifrit/Ramuh
Competes vs: level 2 elementals, level 3 elementals
Time to being "obsolete": after learning level 3 elementals
Reality:

These summons are sometimes called the "poor man's level 3 elementals"... but that's because they are using them wrong.

All level 2 elementals have a base magic power of 64... whereas the 3 summons have a base magic power of 80. It does sound MP cost inefficient for single targets which is true... however, it may be worth exposing elemental weakness, when you consider how magic damage is calculated (consider using Ramuh vs Leviathan if you don't have Thundaga). Once you learn the level 3 elementals, you could be overestimating the power of the summons here as well. These summons always multitarget, so they don't suffer from split damage. The level 3 elementals do. The base power of the level 3 elementals is 256. 3 is the magic number for when a summon may be an appealing alternative option for using an elemental.. as level 3 elementals then have a base power of 85 (= 256/3), so it's not that much of a difference.

Another perspective is looking at this spells, compared to say Edge's Ninjutsu spells... but there are arguments to be made on both ends..

Flame's spell power is 80, just the same as Ifrit and cast faster... but then again, that's limited to Edge's mediocre Wisdom growth.

Blitz's spell power is 160, just the same as Titan and is also cast faster... but also suffers the same issue as Flame... mediocre Wisdom growth.

It would have been a good idea if these summons were boosted at least 10% by the Mist Ring (up to 50% shouldn't hurt too much IMO).. in order to keep them competitive with the level 3 elementals.


Summon: Titan
Competes with: Virus, Quake
Time to being "obsolete": Quake
Reality:

Quake is eventually the spell replacement for Titan, so it's kinda hard to root for Titan too much then (I don't understand why the FF4A port didn't even attempt to boost Titan with the Mist Ring, since that is the first summon Rydia is linked to). The base magic power is 160, which is basically any of the elemental summon that expose an elemental weakness. Other than the monsters that are immune to this attack (those that are weak against aerial attacks), this spell is relatively damage efficient.. though relatively weaker than Virus for a single target (Virus has a base spell power of 128). The spell Quake (not the monster version) has a spell power of 200, so it was meant to be a replacement.

If Titan was boosted by the Mist Ring by say 66 to 75%, it would be a nice improvement for an overlooked summon... but alas, noone really thought of this...


I also want to give some attention to the Twin spells... even though tons of randomness is involved with them.. they are relatively underrated for what they do.

Flare/Pyro is pretty powerful given that the spell base power is 120... equivalent to Flood (Ninjutsu spell). This is nearly double any level 2 elemental spell Palom can cast (spell base power of 64). The MP consumption is nicely split towards both twins (10 MP each). The only issue that it has is the "random wisdom" pick... which tends to be annoying as the twins in the early part of the game have their non-vital magic stat be only 1/2 as powerful and it is always multitargeted... still, for a basic spell it is pretty damn powerful.

Comet is the closest thing to any of Rydia's summons.. with a base power of 80, and being auto-multitargeted by default (so split damage is a not a factor) it is a pretty good spell.. even before you get Rydia back. The only real negative is its casting infrequency and the MP consumption doesn't quite matchup with Rydia's elemental summons (20 MP for each twin vs 30 MP for the elemental summons). It is still a relatively solid spell though.

Ok.. enough of this for now.. but these are some interesting considerations to look at..

175
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Count/Doom - Status and Spell Info
« on: April 30, 2008, 10:52:46 PM »
This status induces countdown induced death, very much like FF5 and 6.

Status:

The status counts down from whatever the initiated value happens to be (which is 10 for Count/Doom spell).

It can be affected by Stop (and Dispel can remove Stop under this instance, strangely enough).

This status is totally unaffected by Haste and Slow... so those of you that assume that the Plague "hurts you" by casting Haste on you are totally wrong. In fact, the only reason it doesn't hit is due to high magic evade. (Like Evil/Wicked Mask's Reflect on you on the SNES version).

Spell:

The attack itself has a perfect hit rate of 100%, but it's completely unblockable. It is has the boss-bit set.. so it can't be used on bosses.

Interestingly enough though, it is reflectable. FF2/4ET has the Fataleye/Ahriman monsters that don't have the boss bit set, so you can see the monster die from Count.

Other details:

Testing Count status on enemies is interesting.. only two "designated" monsters are only able to be declared as "Count inflictable"... there are some odd bugs that go with this.. as when there are 2 or less monsters with the status inflicted, the game could freeze in attempting to remove them. The game is actively waiting for a command (by either monster or character)  to be executed so Count's auto-death stuff can be done. You will also notice that the monsters inflicted with this status eventually don't attack anymore. The only safe commands to use are magic, item, change/row commands..

Edit: Note, the 2 monster limitation seems to be specific to the monsters groupage that can cast it.. which is a pair of Fataleye/Ahriman.

176
Gaming Discussion / FF4 - Dr. Lugae is Craaaaaazy!
« on: April 26, 2008, 07:00:05 PM »
I think I've mentioned this before at some point, but it is worth mentioning again as a thought for FF4 would-be hackers.

This is the most poorly constructed boss battle ever invented.

I'm only speaking of the undead-ish creature that is Dr. Lugae (the Balnab component is amusing for the most part).

His battle script is realtively simple, but here's the notable things he does.

1) He starts off the battle by poisoning everyone.

2) As a counter, he attempts to attack you with a Sleep attack (Sleeping Gas).

If you looked at my thread on status priorities, you would find out that Sleep has a lesser priority than Poison. Sadly that prevents the counter from working effectively at all until Dr. Lugae heals you (yes, that's strange enough as that is).

That's what poor battle scripts net you...  :bah:

What's curious is that the undead-ish Dr. Lugae is a Mech, but not the Balnab-Z version (the rebuilt Balnab)... I get the feeling someone fucked up royally here, but that's my opinion.

So consider the status ailments that are inflicted.. so that you don't prevent other annoying status effects from working effectively.

177
Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Tower of Bab-il Docs
« on: April 26, 2008, 01:39:01 AM »
http://rpgd.emulationworld.com/ballz/el/bab-il/index.html

Found it by accident, since Paladin's readme referred to it.

I'm a complete idiot for missing it.

Edit: The only missing text file on RHDN is spriteclass.txt (Sprite/Class id byte data)... otherwise it is complete...

178
Gaming Discussion / FF4 - The Battle @ Fabul
« on: April 23, 2008, 01:25:24 PM »
Most of the monsters in this sequence aren't that hard, although the Baron Warriors and General seem to be a pain in the ass for some.

Here's two common behaviors noticable in this battle:

1) The Baron Soldiers primarily attack when told to. They are naturally slow as molasses by themselves.

2) The Baron General has no balls.

The character that has the most impact is Edward, but not for any obvious reason. The Lamia Harp is not effective at all, even though Charm status is pretty powerful.. here are two simple reasons why it is useless:

1) The Charm script for the General is the exact same as his standard battle script.

2) The Baron Warriors are resistant to Charm (Twist Headband anyone?)

If you were smart enough to keep the Dreamer Harp, this battle becomes easy as pie.

There are two reasons why this is successful:

1) They aren't bosses, therefore no auto-status immunities from physical attacks that induce statuses.

2) All of them are not resistant to Sleep.

Once you realize this, these warriors become very harmless and you can easily obtain free EXP from the General.

179
Gaming Discussion / Random FF and FF6 Questions
« on: April 22, 2008, 08:15:21 PM »
For FF, has evasion been deciphered yet? I suspect by now that the game's battle mechanics has been fully dissected.... yes?

For FF6, is FF3USME back to being usable again? I remember many boards ago that the latest version was buggy... is that still the case?

Edit: Also, has there been any sort of effort to write a patch for Gogo's command list to expand it so that every possible command and perhaps future added commands to be listed and be selectable? I know FF3USHT suffers from this problem IIRC.

180
Gaming Discussion / FF4 - Why The Heroine/Minerva Robe Isn't Bad
« on: April 22, 2008, 12:18:32 AM »
I did some thinking about this piece of equipment, and tried to be critical on the both sides of the issue.

I've concluded that this piece of armor is underrated, and perhaps undervalued by most people (and you could've figure that from the title).

Let's look deeper into the details  and the women that can equip this robe.

Here's a look at some end game armor...

Heroine/Minerva Robe:
20 defense
40% evade
5 magic defense
5% magic evade
+15 Str, Agi, Vit
-15 Wis, Will

resistant vs paralysis

White Robe:
18 defense
10% evade
10 magic defense
6% magic evade
+15 Will

resistant vs blind
resistant against spirits and undead

Sorceror/Light Robe:
12 defense
10% evade
9 magic defense
9% magic evade
+5 Wis, Will

resistant vs lightning
resistant against undead

I'm not going to include Porom's FF4A's Lord's Robe because it's actually the best combo with the Hero Shield (in terms of overpoweredness).

On the pure basis that Rydia could equip the White Robe if she was still the Younger version... it would make this an interesting argument, but let's not worry about that detail too much (Rydia's best equipment in FF4A is overpowered anyways).

If you look over the equipment, they are evenly matched in different aspects. The Heroine Robe primarily converts a decent spellcaster into more of a fighting machine. The White Robe provides a nice compromise of defense increases plus Will Power boosts with decent resistances (so Rosa/Porom will be 100% effective for healing). The Sorceror's Robe provides the best balance of magic evasion and magic boosts which tends to help (Younger) Rydia realize her potential.

There are a few things that are overrated about some of the equipment. Here's some point worth pondering:

The White Robe has resistances vs blind... but that's useless since no monster in the Lunar Subterrain use a blind attack. Even worse is that there are no Spirit monsters past the Tower of Babil (heading towards the underground) and that the undead you actually meet are virtually harmless while in the back row. Sure they poison you, but that's because you have a lower level than they do! Also consider this.. if you are maxing Rosa or Porom's (or even Rydia) stats to level 99, this stat boost is useless. This isn't quite applicable for those that don't level/stat max.

The Sorceror's Robe is the weakest of your defense options... 10% evade means that you will require Cecil to cover her (either by wasting a turn or letting him be the physical damage shield).  Unless you are using FF4A's Hero Shield (or not abusing the Shield trick), the girls will stay relatively frail physically.

The Heroine's Robe has the weakest magic defense and naturally remove a magic evade multiplier because of the reduction in both magic stats. However, there are outside factors when you consider the characters that can use it... so let's analyze the girls, shall we?

Rydia:
Best stat growth options past level 70:
+3 Str, Agi, Wis, Will
+2 Str, Vit, Wis, Will

If you plan on making her stronger , the Heroine Robe can serve that purpose. This becomes less effective over time as her important stats can be gained at a far greater rate than Vitality, which has the least impact. The Heroine Robe still provides excellent protection for defense, even though her magic defense multiplier (and magic power) can take a nose dive.. but that can be countered by using the classic Tiara (Gold Hairpin).. which does benefit Rydia the most since Wisdom powers most magic. However, let's put this in perspective.

Let's assume Rydia has a setup similar to this:

Note: These are legitmate possible final stats.

(base stats)
level 99
Str 99
Agi 96
Vit 50
Wis 99
Will 99

19x attack multiplier
12x defense multiplier
9x magic defense multiplier

With the equipment set:
Dragon Whip
Golden Hairpin
Heroine Robe
Protect Ring

The stats come out like this..

@ level 99
Str 99
Agi 99
Vit 85
Wis 89
Will 79

19x 103 attack, 99% hit rate
12x 79 defense, 65% evade
8x 27 magic defense, 45% magic evade

Ok, so you've lost a magic defense multiplier and some magic power, but you still have gained the following..

Resistance vs Dragons and a crapload of evade.

You lose a spell multiplier of 2x in the process, but you may be surprised that you aren't missing that much when it comes to dealing damage.

Meteo will do 9999 damage regardless of the monster's magic defense past a certain point (89 Wisdom is way above than you'll ever need for this spell), so that's not weakened.
Flare will not consistantly do 9999 damage on enemies with virtually magic defense (Flare has a spell base power of 400.. so when you consider 25 to be the maximum, it's not that great a loss). Flare will still do mediocre vs monsters with high magic defense anyways.
Bahamut will do a bit better (since it has a spell base power of 480) and won't ever consistantly do 9999 damage on Behemoths either.

I could probably compute the numbers, but the difference is like at most ~1000 points of damage. If you're really THAT concerned, just drop the whip for the Stardust Rod anyways, and you don't miss that much to begin with!

With another character, such as Rosa (and/or Porom).. there's a bigger discrepancy...

Rosa:
Best stat growth options past level 70:
+1 all
+2 Str, Will
+2 Str, Wis, Will (Porom only)

Rosa's final stats are superior to Porom's for the most part (primarily for  Str and Vit).

Rosa's final growth really sucks, and needs massive help... plus her magic defense growth is slower than molasses. The same idea can be done for Rosa like it did for Rydia, but with even greater benefits...

(base stats)
@ level 99
81 Str
57 Agi
67 Vit
47 Wis
99 Will

14x attack multiplier
7x defense multiplier
5x magic defense multiplier

With the equipment set:
Artemis Arrows
Elven Bow
Golden Hairpin
Heroine Robe
Protect Ring

The stats come out like this..

@ level 99
Str 96
Agi 72
Vit 97
Wis 47
Will 84

17x 124 attack, 99% hit rate
9x 85 defense, 65% evade
6x 27 magic defense, 40% magic evade

In addition to having an increased magic defense multiplier (there is no way to do this w/o increasing the Agility and compensating for the losses to Wisdom.. you also don't want to trade the Protect Ring for the Rune Ring for elemental resistance reasons), she gets the additional benefit of killing dragons and mages just as effectively while being decently fast (not great, but better than shit).

The most important part of Rosa's role is healing, and in looking at it closely, she does lose some healing potentency.

3 * 288 (Cure4's base power) * 1 (worst case) / 5 (split damage) = 172
3 * 288 (Cure4's base power) * 3/2 (best case) / 5 (split damage) = 259

So, here's the tradeoff... lose potentially 172-259 points of healing, or have an above average Rosa who is decently fast, can kick ass (she'd be slightly better than Rydia), becomes very versatile in killing the majority of the monsters in the Lunar Subterrain (and subsequently can kick ass in the Lunar Ruins from FF4A), gets resistance to dragon attacks, evade lots of physical damage, and gets the extra magic defense point to boot.

So, I rest my case. Please feel free to question to debate the differences in detail, but if you think the Heroine/Minvera Robe sucks, you haven't really looked into its effectiveness in the game. The results will shock and surprise you nicely.

Note that magic defense is somewhat overrated given what monsters use on you... the magic defense multiplier has a significantly greater impact in damage taking due to magic defense in this game (even though it is countered somewhat in FF4A, its impact is not that great when you consider what my magic damage algo says).

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