Messages

3106

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Holy Grail - Magic Algorithm

« on: February 28, 2008, 12:20:02 AM »

Most of that looks spot-on.  I have but one question: From where are you getting the rand(100, 150)/100 part?  It's in the logical place in the formula, and it seems reasonable.  But does the 1-1.5 number come from somewhere in the code, or from testing, or what exactly?

Btw, BSiron's FAQ mentions 3/2 in the damage range calculations, which is where the number comes from if you think about it.

3107

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 28, 2008, 12:16:10 AM »

Hit rate loss seems to head towards ~32%. Here's my reasoning...

Anything greater than 90% hit rate generally means hit rate "success" for your attack multiplier. At 99%, it implies total success. Since the hit rate is base weapon hit rate + level hit rate bonus (level/4), it would take a significant hit rate drop > 24% to make 99% hit rate weaponry to show even a slight damage drop. However, this hurts Edge's weaponry a bit, but also Kain's weaponry and Rosa's staffs. Rosa with a staff (maybe other than the Power Staff) will never allow her hit at full potential.. this also explains how FuSoYa still sucks with the Lunar Staff he starts with (3x attack multiplier with a hit rate of like ~72% plus a penalty of 32% which implies he's hitting at 40%)... which means he's useless unless he uses a bow+arrow setup.

3108

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Jump Command

« on: February 28, 2008, 12:09:24 AM »

Command ignores row in damage calculations.

3109

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 27, 2008, 04:08:47 PM »

Once the enemies in front are eliminated, the back row becomes non-existant (for obvious reasons).

Actually I find that kind of surprising.

Does the same thing happen to your party? Do back row characters start taking and dealing front row damage when all the front row characters are KOed?

Ironically, no. Characters in the back row take the same damage whether or not the front row characters are dead.

3110

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 27, 2008, 03:28:18 PM »

That's cool.

Is there any way to tell what monster is in what row other than just memorizing it for each monster group?

I think if you logically look at the formation, it should be obvious. The real test is to see if you do normal damage against the target (and sometimes that's difficult according to the algo).

Something like the 3 Imp + 1 Red Cap formation is obvious.. so is a 3 Imp + 1 Basilisk formation.

I'm not sure if it is a byte set, but I suspect the game does some check to determine if a target is in the "back row". Once the enemies in front are eliminated, the back row becomes non-existant (for obvious reasons).

3111

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 27, 2008, 03:17:09 PM »

Defense might not increase.. but perhaps a damage penalty of /2 is incurred to the attacker.. which might be more accurate, given the way most characters do pathetic damage against the King-Ryu (FF2US name) in the back row.

So monsters have a back and a front row too?

Yes.

Edit: However, I don't think monsters have a penalty to their attack power for being in the back row (I mean, seriously). They only get a penalty for attacking characters that are in the back row.

3112

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 27, 2008, 03:14:24 PM »

Guys attacking from the back row not only suffer from a hit rate penalty (but that can be negated with the high levels+hit rate bonus).. but they also seem to "lose" their bonus attack power.. most notably Edge suffers the most from this because of how his attack power is calculated. Instead of keeping the bonus, it is used as part of a randomized attack power formula.

Normally...

Attack Power = Weapon Power + Str/4 + Level/4 (unfortunately Bows don't take the level bonus into account AT ALL)
Edge's Attack Power = Left Hand Weapon Power + Str/4 + Level/4 + Right Hand Weapon Power + Str/4 + Level/4 (as long as both weapons are not claws and both hands have weapons)
Damage = Attack Power * rand (100, 150) / 100 * Hit Rate.... (the basic attack calculations, not factoring in elemental/enemy type modifers)

Well, the back row penalty makes the calculations go like this...
Attack Power = Weapon Power + rand(0, Str/4 + Level/4)
Edge's Attack Power = Left Hand Weapon Power + rand(0, Str/4 + Level/4) + Right Hand Weapon Power + rand(0, Str/4 + Level/4)

If you see how this drastically affects your damage output, you see how painful that it is... if a back row compatible weapon is in either hand and Edge is in the back row... the calculation is more like this...
Edge's Attack Power = Back Row Compatible Weapon Power + Str/4 + Level/4 + Non-Back Row Compatible Weapon + rand (0, Str/4 + Level/4)

In sum, keep Edge in the front row.

3113

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 27, 2008, 02:05:24 PM »

Now that I rethink this.. I doubt Evade is actually increased.. rather the attacker's hit rate is decreased (Kain with the 99% hit rate Spear can miss enemy targets who all have 0% evade).

Defense might not increase.. but perhaps a damage penalty of /2 is incurred to the attacker.. which might be more accurate, given the way most characters do pathetic damage against the King-Ryu (FF2US name) in the back row.

3114

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Jump Command

« on: February 26, 2008, 06:33:41 PM »

Can you even Jump with a sword?

Sure, in fact, you can do it with any weapon. Since there is no specific weapon that you see him wielding on his way down (unlike FF5 and FF3/6), it is the same, according to the game.

3115

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Jump Command

« on: February 26, 2008, 04:47:14 PM »

Do spears have any effect on Jump? In most other FF games, they double the damage, but I couldn't tell a difference when I used them.

As far as I can tell, zero difference. Think about Kain's weapon selection (minus FF4A's overpowered stuff) and you'll come to the same conclusion.

3116

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: FF2 v1.1 bugs fixed?!

« on: February 24, 2008, 01:07:34 AM »

I forgot to mention this before.. Gradual Petrification seems to behave buggy in both FF2US versions.

Anyways, the more important point that I've just found out...

The freezing in FF2US is caused by the following...

Timers are used for Paralyze and Sleep... (both status can't be inflicted at the same time for obvious reasons). This timer unfortunately is shared with the Stop timer. When Paralyze or Sleep status is followed by Stop status, the game is unable to "release" the target from the Paralysis or Sleep. When done on your own characters, the character never gets out of the status (you can still heal the character so they are not stuck forever, it only lasts for the battle anyways). When done on the enemy, it causes the game to go haywire and freeze.. depending on the situation. I got the Kary (FF2US name) to do "useless" hits where the it seems that an attack is made on a target, but no damage is dealt (this only occurs when there is a friend around, because the Kary executes an entirely different script while alone).

Ironically Poison is not affected since its timer is described in BSiron's FAQ (but has its resistance bug), so go figure.

3117

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: Paralysis, Sleep, and Slumber Sword

« on: February 24, 2008, 12:15:25 AM »

Updated some info... apparently Will/Spirit combats Sleep and Paralysis (not Agility).

Also, the GBA version makes Sleep, Hold, and Pin much more effective on your own guys... so I could actually test this properly.

3118

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Paralysis, Sleep, and Slumber Sword

« on: February 23, 2008, 11:52:25 PM »

I didn't want to include Paralysis originally, but it is worth lumping in since it is all related.

I mentioned the Slumber Sword in the Odin post.. and it got me thinking.

I tested the Slumber Sword while on level 99, and it works essentially all the time. When I remember using it at lower levels, it didn't consistantly work... and it got me thinking...

Ever wonder why Hold and Sleep doesn't work when you cast it on yourself? Ever wonder why the Sleep or Paralysis status don't quite work that well unless you have really high levels?

Onto the facts:

Sleep's effectiveness is based on level, like Odin is. The magic version has an additional hassle of being Wisdom based (it is very important for multitargeting the spell). The Slumber Sword does not need Wisdom to power it.

The exception here is that the GBA version has Slumber Sword's Sleep magic behave more like the Apparition/Change Rod (the status change works all the time, barring immunity).

Paralysis's effectiveness is also based on level. The magical versions (Pin, Hold) with the appropriate stat powering them can be boosted, but it is not as significant since it is single targeted.

Both status effects render a target temporarily useless.. but only level and Will/Spirit (for speeding up the timer) as far as I can tell are the way to combat this. Stop is significantly more effective anyways. Ever try to use the Slumber Sword against yourselves? It's pathetic. Ever try to inflict Sleep status with the Catclaw or Paralysis with a Whip on your own guys? It barely works. The D. Fossil (FF2US name) that attacks with paralysis barely paralyzes you. The only monster close to inflicting paralysis successfully is the King-Ryu (FF2US name).. and that goes away when you level up more.

So, there's your status analysis.

One other thing, Sleep doesn't always hit every target. That in itself made this worthy of being researched in the first place.

3119

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Holy Grail - Magic Algorithm

« on: February 23, 2008, 02:16:52 AM »

Laziness ftw? 

Looks like a nice programming-esque representation of how they play out. This could translate to easily makable (yes, that's spelled correctly, even though it doesn't look like it) assembly code...

Probably, but it won't be calculated in that order for a number of reasons...

1) 2x hits can still deal 1 damage total to the same character. (Though that's for physical attacks).

2) Multi-hits (consective uninterruptable attacks... magic and otherwise) involving elementals and absorption accumulate healing instead of damage.

3120

Final Fantasy IV Research & Development / Re: The Back Row

« on: February 23, 2008, 02:14:48 AM »

When attacking in the back row, the damage randomness changes... instead of 100-150% of the attack power, it is more like 90%-150% of the attack power..

Edit: Update, hit rate is also lowered. By how much? I have no idea.. but it is enough to make Kain miss in the back row with the Spear (which has a 99% hit rate). Since there is a hit rate bonus based on level/4, the penalty goes away eventually but it becomes very apparent in the early levels. The hit rate is reduced by at least 10% (16%, 20%, 24% are all possible reduction rates) to have such an effect on Kain... based on the attack multiplier anyways.