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Author Topic: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths  (Read 3212 times)

Deathlike2

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Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« on: March 11, 2008, 08:21:16 PM »
Personally, I'm not sure what level most people are at when they doing Bahamut's Cave... but I'll try to be fair here.

The random point for this discussion to look into how good or bad Leviathan is when you're using it vs the Behemoth battles. I used to use Leviathan for these battles, but at one point I simply just gave up, since the damage return on casting it was simply not MP efficient for me. I'm posting here to see if the damage is at least reasonably higher than Mist, ignoring MP consumption.

Leviathan has a base spell power of 280.

Mist's spell power is directly related to Rydia's current HP.

For the optimal situation, let's see how powerful Leviathan can be... based on a particular level range.

At level 42, Rydia has 40 Wisdom and an HP range of 1110-1245. At level 52, Rydia has 48 Wisdom and an HP range of 1670-1875.

Rydia's equipment is this set... Charm Rod, Tiara, Sorceror's Robe, and Rune Ring. This increases her Wisdom by 28.

Therefore Rydia's spell power at level 42 is 18, and at level 52 it is 20.

Ok, onto the math:

280 (base power) * 1 (worst case) - 254 (monster's magic defense) = 26 * 18 (multiplier @ level 42) = 468  (@ level 52 = 520)
280 (base power) * 1.25 (avg case) - 254 (monster's magic defense) = 96 * 18 (multiplier @ level 42) = 1728  (@ level 52 = 1920)
280 (base power) * 1.5 (best case) - 254 (monster's magic defense) = 166 * 18 (multiplier @ level 42) = 2988  (@ level 52 = 3320)

So, by comparison, Leviathan is stronger on average... on the other hand, it's hard to justify the 30 MP increase (or by 2.5x, however you factor that in.

At maximum Wisdom though..., the damage range is 650 - 4150, with an average case of 2400. By this point, Mist has greatly surpassed this.

So, unfortunately my best suggestion for Leviathan is to use it instead of Bahamut if you want to conserve 10 MP vs low magic defense targets.
5040 minimum damage vs a 0 magic defense target @ level 42... 7000 minimum damage @ maximum Wisdom. Bahamut is generally overkill for low magic defense targets.
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JCE3000GT

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 03:41:53 PM »
Leviathan won't make the Behemoth counter with Storm like he would with Mist--which is real bad for your party's health.   :laugh:

Deathlike2

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 03:46:04 PM »
Leviathan won't make the Behemoth counter with Storm like he would with Mist--which is real bad for your party's health.   :laugh:

Behemoth counters with Storm only vs Holy attacks. Otherwise it just counters with a physical attack vs everything else. Mist is not a Holy attack.
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JCE3000GT

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 03:55:10 PM »
Leviathan won't make the Behemoth counter with Storm like he would with Mist--which is real bad for your party's health.   :laugh:

Behemoth counters with Storm only vs Holy attacks. Otherwise it just counters with a physical attack vs everything else. Mist is not a Holy attack.

I could of sworn he counters Mist with Storm when there is only 1 Behemoth. 

Nope, just tested it. 

Leviathan Mist

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 02:46:11 PM »
Wha...don't confuse me, I thought I saw my name in the topic title :P

Deathlike2

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 03:04:30 PM »
The thread title was meant to confuse you.

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazy!  :banonsmash:
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odditude

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 09:25:26 PM »
woo, seriously late topic reply!

personally, i always found the best strategy vs behemoths was to image/blink everyone, and then just use physical attacks.  rydia parries, period.  rosa and fusoya parry (unless rosa needs to recast blink on somebody).  edge attacks unless his damage sucks or he needs to reimage himself.  kain parries until everyone's blinked, and then either attacks or continues to parry if his damage output also sucks.  cecil parries until everyone's blinked, then makes the behemoth regret its existence.

you'll take no damage and expend far less MP than if you need to summon or heal.

also, it's really satisfying to watch one of the most powerful monsters in the game be completely incapable of harming you.

Deathlike2

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 10:00:44 PM »
I've found that Rydia doing nothing is a waste of her ability.

I've also found that Rosa becomes less important over time, and that White Magic isn't that great.. that and Aim is relatively useless at this point (unless you are playing FF4A). However that is for a different thread...
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odditude

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 10:37:35 PM »
I've found that Rydia doing nothing is a waste of her ability.
Agreed.

In this case, however, I found that dropping 50MP on Nuke/Flare (or more on a summon) simply isn't necessary.  I tend to be a conservationist when it comes to magic, though... so I'm definitely biased.

I do enjoy abusing Stone/Break against those damn black puddings, though.


Deathlike2

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 10:54:31 PM »
That's why I recommend Mist... since it is completely HP dependant and defense/magic defense ignoring. If you have Bomb though, you will be saving a bit of MP.
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odditude

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 11:34:32 PM »
Do Behemoths have any other actions besides their physical attack, the standard counter, and Storm?

For such a major enemy, they're remarkably easy to neuter as long as you avoid Holy.

Deathlike2

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 11:44:43 PM »
Storm is the only really negative reaction to Holy (Meteor is also Holy elemental). Otherwise it is kinda FF5-Monkish - it only counters with a physical attack otherwise.
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odditude

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Re: Leviathan or Mist vs Behemoths
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2008, 12:40:41 AM »
This means Behemoths truly are incapable of causing any damage as long as you have Blink, Image, and a little bit of patience.

The forced Behemoth battles are therefore the LEAST threatening in the whole cave.

Bahamut himself is no threat at all, unless you accidentally cast your first Wall(s) too early and they expire before Megaflare.

The random encounters in the cave are the biggest threat!