øAslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=so1iojs5ocdn0o2vf0tti7fbu6&topic=2214.15e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/indexe37e-2.htmlslickproductions.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=so1iojs5ocdn0o2vf0tti7fbu6&board=8.0e:/My Web Sites/Slick Productions - FFIV Message Board/slickproductions.org/forum/indexe37e-2.html.zxÇôg^ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÈ ­S‰OKtext/htmlISO-8859-1gzip@øÕS‰ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿTue, 10 Mar 2020 20:29:18 GMT0ó°° ®0®P®€§²ð®Çôg^ÒS‰ Two new patches: Rock Bottom, Imp's Call

Author Topic: Two new patches: Rock Bottom, Imp's Call  (Read 1711 times)

assassin

  • Bane of Retards
  • *
  • Posts: 1,033
  • space bears are not gentle!
    • View Profile
    • My Barren Webpage
Re: Two new patches: Hard as a Rock, Imp's Call
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 10:41:41 PM »
spiffy.. you found some nice commonalities in the index and bit ascension.  it's not often somebody thinks to do a loop of just 2 iterations.

regarding Imp's call: what happens in vanilla if you get sapped of MP between choosing and performing the Summon?

13375K31C43R

  • Ultros
  • *
  • Posts: 675
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Leet Sketcher's Final Fantasy III Patches
Re: Two new patches: Hard as a Rock, Imp's Call
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2016, 10:51:33 PM »
Quote
spiffy.. you found some nice commonalities in the index and bit ascension.  it's not often somebody thinks to do a loop of just 2 iterations.

Anything to save on space, am I right? :happy:

Quote
regarding Imp's call: what happens in vanilla if you get sapped of MP between choosing and performing the Summon?

That's an interesting question. I considered the possibility that someone might ask about Summoning an Esper while Muddled, because that happened during my testing, nothing ended up happening and, indeed, the Muddled character also lost their Esper privileges. That, in my opinion, is a different case to Imp because Imp actually replaces the Summon command with Fight, so the fact that you're not even trying to Summon anymore means you shouldn't lose that ability, whereas the Muddled character actually tried to Summon and nothing ended up happening.

So I have to say I'm not inclined to modify the case you just mentioned, where the party member loses enough MP to stop the Summon, because your party member still actually tried to Summon. It's in the same category as the Muddle case I just mentioned. I say that Imp is different because Fighting is not Summoning.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

assassin

  • Bane of Retards
  • *
  • Posts: 1,033
  • space bears are not gentle!
    • View Profile
    • My Barren Webpage
Re: Two new patches: Hard as a Rock, Imp's Call
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 11:12:05 PM »
interesting..  i see Muddled as the Esper abstaining from attacking the party, due to the "Abort on Characters" bit being set (which all damaging summons outside Palidor have, iirc) -- and can be backed by storyline reasoning, with them being good, sentient creatures -- and tend to agree with you on the result.

in contrast, i see insufficient MP as meaning the summon doesn't unfold in the first place.  but i do agree it's a later change conceptually (and obviously mechanically) than the one Imp spurs.  iow, MP shortfall is between the Imp command swap and the Esper restraint seen in Muddling; the question is *where* between.

it's also of what is conceptually behind the "already Summoned once" limit.  we of course agree it's not merely choosing one from the menu.  does it entail the Esper being aware it was called upon?

13375K31C43R

  • Ultros
  • *
  • Posts: 675
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Leet Sketcher's Final Fantasy III Patches
Re: Two new patches: Hard as a Rock, Imp's Call
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2016, 11:58:11 PM »
I can't think of a single thing to disagree with on the front of what you just said. I will say that, personally, my stance is that the Esper is aware that their master is trying to Summon them, but the deficiency of MP essentially "spoils" the Magicite for the rest of the battle, so the Esper is now off limits.

P.S. I read a little bit into the Petrify omni-counter bug you linked to, and I've found a fix for it that doesn't use any free space. I will make a patch for it, but first I notice in my ROM that some patches have altered the beginning of the function at C2/450D, and I'm thinking they're yours. I'm thinking they have something to do with your status immunity-related patches.

:edit:
I found it. It's your "1-way status immunity fix" patch. I'll have to bear it in mind.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 12:03:28 AM by 13375K31C43R »
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings

13375K31C43R

  • Ultros
  • *
  • Posts: 675
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Leet Sketcher's Final Fantasy III Patches
Re: Two new patches: Rock Bottom, Imp's Call
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 11:09:37 PM »
:bump: GBA ports for both patches!
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." -Gildor from The Lord of the Rings